Obsolete bullets: Couldn't you like something COMMON?

[bootsnthejeep]

I've had the same deer rifle since I was 13. A hand me down, pre-64 Winchester 94 in 30-30. 16" barrel, with the chopped chort stock to fit my kids frame. At the age of 40 I've still never got around to adding the chunk of stock back on, I rather like it the way it is.

It shoots very well, carries even better, and is a dandy handy size for toting around in a truck or on a wheeler or just lugging through the woods. It's one of my favorite guns.

But, to its diet: It's a finicky eater.

Its not that it doesn't shoot well, it shoots everything ADEQUATELY well, but for SOME REASON... what it loves the most, what it sits up and begs for, what it shoots plum center every time and will almost touch all the holes together with if I do my part is Winchester 170 gr Silvertips.

I have tubs and tubs of once fired 30-30 brass. I've never reloaded a round for this in my life. For most of my life, with factory ammo being so cheap, why would I? I'd pick up a couple of boxes before hunting season, or anytime I saw it on sale. It was ubiquitous in any sporting goods store or hardware store, so supply was never a problem. Hell, WalMart would have it on sale for less than $9 a box! And as a younger man, I just picked up whatever. 150s, 170s, whatever. They all went bang.

I was in my late 20s or early 30s when I discovered this thing's affection for Silvertips. I couldn't explain it, and it wasn't like it scattered CoreLokts all over the target or anything, they just didn't shoot like the Silvertips. I had a few boxes, so no matter. I'd plink with the Remingtons and hunt with the Winchesters.

Until I started to run low, and went looking for some more... well, ain't that a fine how-do-you-do. Don't know why they did it, but they did it, and the well dried up.

Over the years as I go through my assorted reloading and gun cultch, I find another one here and there. From when I dumped my pockets out coming back from hunting, the extra round I dropped at the range, the one I found in the gun bag. I have a little ammo pouch I horde them in now. I'm down to about a dozen. I shoot a couple at the range to confirm that the receiver sight that hasn't moved in 30 years still, has not, in fact, moved and then if I'm lucky I put one into a deer.

Here's what I don't get: What could POSSIBLY be different about them? It just does not shoot the 170 grain CoreLokt bullet as well. Again, adequate, minute of deer all day long well out past 100 yards. But those Silvertips... its just the perfect combination with this gun.

I'm not in a panic. I've bought dies. I've got plenty of brass. I'll get one of the Ranch Dog clones off of Al one of these days and start working up a load, but... What kind of magic ju-ju did Winchester put on these things that Remington can't figure out?

Or maybe they shoot center just because I think they're going to shoot center. Stranger things have happened.

Figures. Every time it seems like I like something they stop making it. Heard that before.

-Boots

[Texas Gun]

The super X Winchester silver tips were the best made and they were made for those rifles

[GregLaROCHE]

I remember when those were popular and used some for deer in my 06. Not positive, but I think the tips were aluminum. I’ve read stuff about the diameter and internal density of a bullet effects the way it spins and accuracy. A lot of precession shooters use hollow points for this reason. It has nothing to do with mushrooming characteristics. All the mass is concentrated close to the max diameter. The lighter core of the silver tips may be what improves the gun’s accuracy.

Have you tried hollow points or the modern composite tips? They are expensive. I don’t know if people cast .30 cal. hollow points. Maybe someone here can shed more light on that.

[Texas Gun]

The silver tips was just like a thick piece of tinfoil covering up the soft lead So it would not get damage in the Action of the rifle or when you load them in the tube mag on the Winchester

[mr surveyor]

.... I don’t know if people cast .30 cal. hollow points. Maybe someone here can shed more light on that.

Commercial cast 30-30 hollow point ....

268700


jd

[Texas Gun]

And yes there are molds made for 30–30 That actually work quite well

[Bazoo]

Interesting story, thanks for sharing.

Maybe it isn't the bullet, but the powder that winchester used. W748 I hear was the factory powder, 32 grains if I'm not mistaken. It shoots good in my gun, not cloverleafs, but better than 3031.

[fcvan]

30+ years ago, I had a co-worker who had bought his 30-30 before went to Nam. Every round he ever fired, he saved the brass. Back in the 1980s, we went to Academy together for our agency. He told me about a hunting trip where he took 3 deer at 150+ yards with his rifle. I questioned his ability, but he was a good shot. He asked me to reload his 20+ year old empties to factory. A big man, he had added a shotgun pad to his Winchester to fix length of pull.

I did some load research, laddered up, and worked up to where he wanted to be. His rifle printed 4" low, with his sights jacked up. We went to the range for a general shoot, and placed some cans on the berm for later pistol shooting. The range where we started was 50 yards, we generally shot our pistols at 25 to 5 yards. Anyway, I had 5 rounds each based on load specs. He shot paper, and each round/group rose slightly until POA zero. He said 'that's what I wanted.' I told him I thought you would, and handed him 10 more rounds at the same charge.

My friend shucked 5 more in the rifle and rapid fire blasted all of the cans we had set up for later pistol. Bang, Bang Bang, he proved that an Arkansas man doesn't boast about his marksmanship, he proves it. I happily reloaded all of his empties. I transferred, but before I did, I giftes him a press and dies so he could 'roll his own.' We still talk on occasion, I assume he is still the crack shot I remember. He made me want a 30-30 WCF. I don't own one, but I still have dies and molds. My wife was gifted a W M94 when her grandfather died. I have loads for her to try next range day.

[Burnt Fingers]

I'd guess it's due to velocity and bullet length.

The Silvertip had/has an aluminum jacket. This is going to have a different friction coefficient than gilding metal or lead.

If it were me I'd chrono some Silvertips then try and get a load that runs the same velocity.

[fredj338]

Rifles are very individual things. Some will love a bullet & some hate them. I have a semi custom 338-06. It loves just about any bullet 200-210 & 250gr but hates any 225gr bullet. i can not explain it but it is a sub moa rifle with 210gr NP or 250gr anything but turns into a 2moa with any 225gr. So not surprising your old 30-30 likes a given bullet. So the trick is to shoot it enough to find a replacement. It may take 6 diff powders &/or 2-3 diff lubes with a given cast bullet. You may even need a diff bullet mold.

[fredj338]

I'd guess it's due to velocity and bullet length.

The Silvertip had/has an aluminum jacket. This is going to have a different friction coefficient than gilding metal or lead.

If it were me I'd chrono some Silvertips then try and get a load that runs the same velocity.

I do not think they have made the alum jackets in a decade or more??

[redhawk0]

I bought up a bunch of WinST in both 180gr Pointed Tip for the '06 and 170gr FRN for the 30-30 when they were discontinued back in the early 90s. The tip is Aluminum as stated but its very much like the "plastic" tips of the Ballistic tips that are sold by Nosler. There is a copper jacket with Cannelure that has a lead core. I suspect that they are accurate because the aluminum cap is light weight so the center of gravity is pushed back closer to the heal of the bullet itself (much like a hollow point...already mentioned)

Anyway...I swear by them in my '06. Its the only bullet that I use for white-tails with the Ruger M77. As for the 30-30...I've really not tested them much but I have used them in the 303 Sav with good results on paper. (one of these days...I'll take the old 1899 deer hunting)

redhawk

[PositiveCaster]

I do not think they have made the alum jackets in a decade or more??

Introduced in 1939, Winchester’s Silvertip rifle bullets never had aluminum jackets, the covering over the large “exposed” lead tip was tin not aluminum. It was not “light weight” at all, just a thin cover over the large lead tip. The jackets were always copper-based (often Lubaloy, a copper-zinc alloy). In the 70s I shot Silvertips in my .30 WCF and .270, they had brass-colored jackets with the distinctive silver tip covering the lead.

Winchester has caused a lot of confusion with their bullet names. The 1939 Silvertip was a copper-jacketed tin-tipped rifle bullet. The Ballistic Silvertip is a colored Nosler BallisticTip. Their handgun Silvertips did, at least on many designs, have an aluminum jacket.

Writer John Barsness notes that the traditional Silvertip rifle bullets had a very erratic reputation, with some designs performing like Nosler Partitions and others like varmint bullets. The few I shot game with performed very well.


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[BobT]

My 94 .30-30 loved the old Silvertips too, except it preferred the 150 grain version.

[2A-Jay]

I don't shoot any Obsolete rounds, But I do collect them for an Ammo Display I have. I have some interesting rounds on display. The most interesting Is a box of Nazi German 8mm, and another single round .45-120.