American Pioneer Powder is Back in Business & Available

[arcticap]

APP is now producing powder again after their plant explosion.
The powder with the original APP label is available for purchase from the following outfits: bulletsbyscarett.com, lg-outdoors.com and at wholesalehunter.com.

It's also being sold under the Shooters World label @ grafs.com as Shooters World Multi-Purpose Black
(This Black Powder substitute is made in America for Shooters World by American Pioneer Powder).

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/83678

https://bulletsbyscarlett.com/shop/ols/products/app-american-pioneer-powder-black-powder-substitute

https://www.lg-outdoors.com/Search/Keyword?keywords=american%20pioneer%20powder

https://www.wholesalehunter.com/Search/Keyword?keywords=american%20pioneer

[TheOutlawKid]

I have never used APP and all testing i have seen is that it is very underpowered compared to other subs and black powders....yet i have heard its the same product as the now discontinued BlackMZ, yet others state they are not the same product at all, especially since BlackMZ's chrono numbers are a bit higher than APP. Have you or any of my fellow forum members used and compared APP with BlackMZ? I shoot black powder only...but i have a stash of BlackMZ and its the only sub i ever liked...just wondering if its the same stuff as APP. Not just ingredient wise...but actual end product being the same or different.

[arcticap]

I have never used APP and all testing i have seen is that it is very underpowered compared to other subs and black powders....yet i have heard its the same product as the now discontinued BlackMZ, yet others state they are not the same product at all, especially since BlackMZ's chrono numbers are a bit higher than APP. Have you or any of my fellow forum members used and compared APP with BlackMZ? I shoot black powder only...but i have a stash of BlackMZ and its the only sub i ever liked...just wondering if its the same stuff as APP. Not just ingredient wise...but actual end product being the same or different.

The APP 3F is what I prefer to use for revolvers.
I use an OP card and heavy compression with a loading press, and it produces a lot of velocity and smoke.
Just make sure to always keep the bottle sealed as much as possible so that it won't absorb any moisture.

frontiergander is familiar with both and has reported a lot about the Black MZ and how it's the same.
AFAIK the only difference is that the Black MZ is the coarse 2F granulation which he refers to as kitty litter.
I guess that there could be very slight differences between batches, but it was made in the same factory.

[toot]

just when some of us were using it the plant went up. so this is good news for some of us. thanks for posting.

[TheOutlawKid]

Would you happen to have a link to frontierganfers testing? Thanks!

[Brick85]

This makes me happy! I always felt this was an easy powder to clean up after which is why I like it!

[brewer12345]

Well slap my hindquarters and call me Sally! Figured that we would ever see the stuff again. Now I can happily ploy through my Black MZ stash without worry.

[arcticap]

Would you happen to have a link to frontierganfers testing? Thanks!

These are the advanced search results of frontiergander's posts about "Black MZ" on THR.
THR's advanced search works much better than Castboolits'.--->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?search/45525679/&q=black+mz&o=date&c[node]=12&c[user][0]=69904

[arcticap]

I have never used APP and all testing i have seen is that it is very underpowered compared to other subs and black powders....yet i have heard its the same product as the now discontinued BlackMZ, yet others state they are not the same product at all, especially since BlackMZ's chrono numbers are a bit higher than APP. Have you or any of my fellow forum members used and compared APP with BlackMZ? I shoot black powder only...but i have a stash of BlackMZ and its the only sub i ever liked...just wondering if its the same stuff as APP. Not just ingredient wise...but actual end product being the same or different.

Reading through Frontiergander's search results mentioned in my last post directly above, he mentions that it needs to be compressed a lot for best results.
And he also thinks that it has a chunkier granulation than APP 2F.

[T-Bird]

Any difference between this and 777? I know they are made by different companies, but they are both sulfurless subs. Is this stuff hard to light?

[arcticap]

Any difference between this and 777? I know they are made by different companies, but they are both sulfurless subs. Is this stuff hard to light?

Yes, they do have different formulas.
And both do contain potassium chlorate which AFAIK all of the subs do, even Blackhorn 209.
However APP powder itself is not hard to ignite, especially not the smaller 3F granulation which can flow into flash channels better.

It lights easy enough to be able to be used as the main charge of an India made Brown Bess flintlock without needing to use a duplex load, and with only using BP in the pan. They loaded 15 shots in a row of APP 3F without any misfires. The gun must have a good vent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inKagLbvINg&t=2s
The video caption states:
Trying out some new powder, touted as a clean burning black powder substitute. I've read a huge difference of opinion about this powder, and several people flatly state that it will NOT work in a flintlock.

Well, here you have it. I fired 10 shots of varying powder charge, all lead ball, and not one misfire or failure to discharge. I think the FFFg is the right choice, the grain size is bigger than regular black powder, so having the FFFg probably helped with ignition here. Also, prime the pan with NORMAL black powder, it's not a big deal and doesn't make a big mess.

Clean up was a breeze and nearly zero fouling. Very happy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7DjLFCenQU
The video caption states:
This is I think the 8th shot out of the musket without swabbing, cleaning or lube of any kind.

After 15 shots the barrel still looked 'brand new', this powder seems consistent and reliable, not a single misfire that day.

....also at 20 paces we hit the crock-pot every time.. .71 lead ball with paper cartridge wadding.

[T-Bird]

Ok then!:-P

[toot]

I will go back to it for my percussion guns.

[arcticap]

Jedediah Starr and Jade-Inc.org also has APP in stock.

1. https://www.jedediah-starr.com/thumbnail.asp?offset=0&deep=2&cid=78

2. https://www.jade-inc.org/manufacturers/american-pioneer-powder