'94 Winchester receiver sight mounting hole locations

[cuslog]

Hi there;
I have a 1906 vintage Winchester 1894 in 38-55 - manufactured before they started drilling / tapping them for receiver sights.
I have a Williams receiver sight I'd like to mount (in the factory correct location). Does anyone have or know of drawings that would show the exact location of these screw holes in the left side of the receiver ?
TIA

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Post #2? A new guy! Welcome to the forum.

Somewhere in my misguided past I did some gunsmithing, and drilled and tapped several '94s for receiver peep sights. The easy jobs were really easy. For it to be easy, you have to be sure that the sight you want to mount is intended for a '94. Specifically for a '94. Williams is easy to check by visiting their website; but if you got it still in the original packaging then that's even easier. So what I'd do was just put it on the receiver where it looked right, and affix it to the receiver right there with super glue. After about 24 hours I'd just drill though the receiver wall using the screw holes for guides. Next, tap it and put in the screws. Of course, you should strip the bolt out of the rifle before doing the drilling, and if your lucky you'll have a Brownell's screw set with various lengths of 6-48 screws, and you'll be able to select the correct length that doesn't pass all the way through the hole and need to be cut down to permit free sliding of the bolt once re-installed.
Here's a photo of a '70s vintage rifle that came with the holes already present, but doggoned if I can figure out how to measure their location very precisely for you, as all the edges one can measure from are curved or rounded. But, if you've got the right sight the measurements will take care of themselves. Good luck with your project.
DG
268542

[pietro]

.

Welcome to the board !

I would respectfully suggest using the sight base as a guide for locating the holes, as noted - then D/T one hole at a time.


https://homesteadparts.com/shop/images/94scopeplugscrewlocation.jpg

[Drm50]

The older Lyman 66 had a small “lip” at top of base that would allow you to precisely locate base holes. I don’t think Williams has this lip, so it can be used on several flat sided levers. The 1894 receivers aren’t hard to drill. The main thing is to get holes laid out perfect and center punch the locations. Make sure your drill press and work are on 90. Most of the DIY sight and scope base mounting due to slop in cheap drill press or because bit walked ends up being just enough off that second screw will not line up. Remember once you drill it you are stuck with holes that decrease value of the gun.

[cuslog]

Thanks for the replies so far, appreciate them.
I have a milling machine with a digital readout so I was thinking that if I had proper blueprints with dim's referencing maybe the hammer screw hole then I could dial in that hole and then locate the receiver sight holes precisely.
The comments regarding added holes decreasing value are valid and worth consideration - I might just glue it on, some of the automotive RTV silicones are quite strong and most likely up to the task. Still like to get it close to where factory would have put it.
TIA

[pietro]

Still like to get it close to where factory would have put it.



I would hie thee to a funshop that has late Model 94's and ask if you can trace the hole pattern from one of their guns.

.

[Eddie Southgate]

Use Pietro's picture above , blow it up full size and print it . Cut it out and compare all the key feature locations to what you have . If they match use a very light coat of easy to remove quick drying adhesive and drill when dry . The screws and pins on the older 94's are a tad different but still enough alike that it should work . The screws used by Lyman are oddball in that they had a slightly smaller diameter and thinner head to fit the holes in the 66A sight . They had to be thin to set down in the hole deep enough to allow the slide to go past them when you screwed it back down once the sight was installed. 6-48 5/16" screws work in my 1965 94 without having to shorten them , that's with the 66A . If I were gonna drill it I would use 8-48 instead .

[cuslog]

Actually, if "Pietro" or someone else would take a similar photo with a tape measure in the picture (parallel to the bore), I could use AutoCad to scale it "pretty accurately" (+ or - a few 0.001's) but close enough for my purposes. Could even post the drawing as a .PDF - might help someone else too.
TIA

[samari46]

Once you get the rear sight glued where you want it, make sure you have a set of transfer punches and use the one that fits the best to mark your locations for the holes to be drilled. There are about 4 or so different sets of transfer punches out there. Inch, screw size and number and letter and of course metric. Frank

[Geezer in NH]

I would not drill an undrilled frame. Why lower the value. Get a correct for period tang peep IMHO

Or you might as well go all the way and drill it for a scope mount at the same time.

[Texas by God]

Acraglas will hold that lightweight aluminum Williams sight on, just polish the anodizing off the side that mates with the receiver and degrease both surfaces before applying the epoxy. I drilled and tapped my pre 64 for a receiver sight (Redfield) - but it is going nowhere while I’m still kicking- my father gave it to me.

[indian joe]

I would not drill an undrilled frame. Why lower the value. Get a correct for period tang peep IMHO

Or you might as well go all the way and drill it for a scope mount at the same time.

7 million 94's, are they really valuable as collector pieces?

I'm biased of course, not a collector, see no value in a cartridge gun that cant be shot.

[cuslog]

"Glued it on" with Permatex "Right Stuff" RTV Silicone gasket maker - black.
I've used this stuff before - very tenacious stuff - I'm sure it'll hold, if it doesn't, no harm done.
This rifle doesn't have a lot of collector value, though none the less I think its a neat old rifle. DOM 1906, 38-55, 26" octagon barrel, crescent butt plate. Bluing is mostly gone, got some pitting, some dings and scrapes. Bore is pitted, rifling kind of poor. Best of all, 13 notches filed on one corner of the butt plate. Deer ?, Moose ? I have no idea. I'd take this 'ol girl over a shiny new one any day !

[redhawk0]

"Glued it on" with Permatex "Right Stuff" RTV Silicone gasket maker - black.
I've used this stuff before - very tenacious stuff - I'm sure it'll hold, if it doesn't, no harm done.
This rifle doesn't have a lot of collector value, though none the less I think its a neat old rifle. DOM 1906, 38-55, 26" octagon barrel, crescent butt plate. Bluing is mostly gone, got some pitting, some dings and scrapes. Bore is pitted, rifling kind of poor. Best of all, 13 notches filed on one corner of the butt plate. Deer ?, Moose ? I have no idea. I'd take this 'ol girl over a shiny new one any day !

How about a picture of her? I love old Wins.

redhawk

[Drm50]

My gunsmith made a piece of brass and screws to attach plate to receiver. Brass was drilled to accept receiver sight. I think it was an old Marlin Lever that was in very good shape and owner didn’t want extra holes in it. Looked official.

[dverna]

I am in the “glue it on” camp. There is not a lot of mass to the sight and not a lot of recoil. If it works, it is simple and does not put holes in the nice old gun. No telling what it will be worth in 20-30 years

Cut the heads off a couple of screws, and glue them in if you want it to look like it is screwed on.

Enjoy it....wish it could talk.

[cuslog]

Here's a couple pictures, I don't like the look of the "new" Williams sight on her (though I'm sure its a better sight). I think its coming off - now I'm glad I didn't drill her. Time to look for an original (worn looking) Lyman tang for her.
269075
269083
269077

[pietro]

.

I'd ditch the newer sight, too - and surf the likes of E-Bay for an older receiver peepsight that will most likely have a matching patina (if a receiver sight's desired).

The Gold Standard, as mentioned above, would be to install a likewise-aged tang peepsight in the factory-prepped holes (tang screw hole & a smaller one between the tang screw & the hammer).

[cuslog]

Ha ! Just looked at Ebay - one there, "buy it now" is $769 CAD or ~$600 USD
I'm a machinist, I've made a couple other tang sights before, for that kind of money, I'll make another, put a bit of "plum brown" on her and "Bob's yer uncle".

[redhawk0]

Wow....ain't she purdy. I'm glad you decided not to alter it. Thanx for sharing the pics....she really is a sweet looking rifle.

redhawk

[cuslog]

Thanks,
Yeah, sometimes I think I was born 100 years too late. That "Old Survivor" look really appeals to me.
Been places, done some stuff, lots of "character".

[444ttd]

Ha ! Just looked at Ebay - one there, "buy it now" is $769 CAD or ~$600 USD
I'm a machinist, I've made a couple other tang sights before, for that kind of money, I'll make another, put a bit of "plum brown" on her and "Bob's yer uncle".

i have a rem m14 in 30 rem that i wanted an original peep sight. i found it on ebay and it was $300. i decided that i didn't want the peep sight anymore. i did find (on ebay) a redfield 102k no drill aperture sight for my krag. i think it was $40, but after 7-8 years, i don't know much. i was given a redfield mauser aperture sight that i put on my 7.65x53mm in 91 argie. i also bought a 98 mauser with an old lyman aperture sight. just last year, i bought a williams fp aperture sight on my win m94(1972).

if i were a machinist, i would go with a tang sight too.

[cuslog]

Hey;
I too have a Rem. model 14 in 30 Remington, I bought it (used) because I remember the gun rack at my Grandparents farm had one. They tore down the old Farm house, I got the gun rack, now I'm trying to make it look like it used to. As a Kid, I was so fascinated by that rack, the guns - it had drawers in the bottom - they had Duck and Crow calls, mags, loose shotgun shells, boxes of "Whiz Bang" .22 shells .
A few months ago, I almost bought a 1930's vintage(?) Remington 12C .22 pump stamped "NRA TARGET" - it had the original Remington peep sight on it, octagon barrel, crescent butt plate etc. but the seller was pretty proud of it and I dawdled a bit too long and it disappeared. Maybe I'll find another one some day.

269094

269095

269096

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thanks,
Yeah, sometimes I think I was born 100 years too late. That "Old Survivor" look really appeals to me.
Been places, done some stuff, lots of "character".

Yeah...but 100 years ago a lot of them looked new! ;)

[dverna]

Hey;
I too have a Rem. model 14 in 30 Remington, I bought it (used) because I remember the gun rack at my Grandparents farm had one. They tore down the old Farm house, I got the gun rack, now I'm trying to make it look like it used to. As a Kid, I was so fascinated by that rack, the guns - it had drawers in the bottom - they had Duck and Crow calls, mags, loose shotgun shells, boxes of "Whiz Bang" .22 shells .
A few months ago, I almost bought a 1930's vintage(?) Remington 12C .22 pump stamped "NRA TARGET" - it had the original Remington peep sight on it, octagon barrel, crescent butt plate etc. but the seller was pretty proud of it and I dawdled a bit too long and it disappeared. Maybe I'll find another one some day.

269094

269095

269096

I remember shooting Whiz-Bangs.....