LEE trimmer seems to be shrinking

[la5676]

Been confined to a chair for the last 6 weeks from hip revision surgery, had to break everything to take old hardware out. Decided to make lemonade out of lemons, so I've been trimming a big batch of 5.56 milsurp brass I bought a few years back.

I have the simple LEE cutter with lock stud and a drill. It originally micced a bit long, so I used emery cloth to take a couple thousandths off the pin to get it to exactly 1.750. Have gone through a bit over 4,000 cases now. Have checked periodically, and all was well, until this last batch of brass. All of a sudden I'm reading 1.745

I would have thought that pin you screw into the cutter would have been pretty hardened and wouldn't wear down quite this fast. Has anyone else experienced this? I'll not toss them, this is the first loading from 1x. I think I'll just segregate them so I won't fight cannelure placement.

So, I'm still thinkin', yeah, I know, it's addicting. I micced my Lyman case guage. From the two lower recessed cuts in the ends of the guage, my electronic mic now reads 1.745 +/-. I thought it was supposed to be 1.750. Now thinkin' my mic is off. When cases fall in case guage, the case mouth is perfectly flush with the end of the guage.

I've got a real micrometer downstairs in my playroom, but is inaccessible to me at the moment, and the wife unit wouldn't know what to look for, but I'm thinkin' I'm OK to keep this trimming operation going, as guage shows proper length. Me thinks I need a new electronic micrometer.

Your thoughts welcome

[44magLeo]

In the instructions that came with my Lee trimmer it warned that when using the trimmer in a drill press and using the drill press table can wear a hole in the table. The pin is hardened steel, the drill press table is cast iron. The pin wears a hole in the cast table.
Perhaps this is what has happened on your Trimmer. The pins runs against the stud. Check the face of the stud. It may have an indentation where the pin rides.
On the trimmers I most are longer than the cases I try to trim. Not by much, but some cases in a batch don't cut, others partially, others fully.
I don't trust any of the electronic measuring devices I can afford. I do have a 1" micrometer that has a digital read out as well a the lines. The digital parts is gear driven and is right on to the lines.
I have a couple of 6" SAE calipers as well as one metric. I did pic up an electronic 6" caliper. It's ok when batteries are fresh and strong. After a bit the reading starts to wander. Measure one thing 3 times and get 3 different readings.
It does convert from SAE to metric even with weak batteries.
Leo

[la5676]

In the instructions that came with my Lee trimmer it warned that when using the trimmer in a drill press and using the drill press table can wear a hole in the table. The pin is hardened steel, the drill press table is cast iron. The pin wears a hole in the cast table.
Perhaps this is what has happened on your Trimmer. The pins runs against the stud. Check the face of the stud. It may have an indentation where the pin rides.
Leo
I thought that initially too, first thing I checked, but no wear point, it's very flat still. I say drill, it's one of those little Black and Decker type drills you keep in your kitchen desk drawer for little jobs the wife wants to do, and no drill press table here in my manchair. Just doing it by hand and trying to keep all the trimmings inside the plastic pail I have in my lap. I find a lot on my shirt too. I just keep it plugged in here permanently by the chair so it don't run down. Not near as fast RPM as say a cordless 20V DeWalt or something.

I'm thinking more and more it's my electronic mic. I'm gonna have to send her down to get the little machinist micrometer.

Thanks

[poppy42]

Yes! It definitely wears out I’ve been through three or four of them I can’t remember. I make Makarov brass (9x18). Out of 9 Luger (9x19). Started out using the Lee trimmer in a drill like you. I found that after about 500 cases, Or if you prefer 500 mm worth of trimming, The pin was wearing out. I switch to a Lyman trimmer which I use to trim all my rifle cases. And then ultimately to my favorite ( for trimming Makaroff brass anyway) to a CH4D file trim die. I understand for trimming rifle brass and such The Lee trimmer lasts a lot longer, but still wears out a little too quickly as far as I’m concerned. I’ll stick with the Lyman trimmer for normal trimming but anything over that I’ll use a file trim die. 4 or 5 passes with a good cross cut file followed up by a pass or two with a nice single cut file make short work of that millimeter!

[44magLeo]

I have a 4.6 or 4.8 whichever little drill. It has a 1/4 " drive so it easily uses screwdriver bits and the Lee stud fits right in. Runs about 400 rpms and trims well. Does a lot on a charge. Even has adjustable clutch settings. Got it Wal Mart for $10.
With no wear marks on the stud and I think the pin is a needle bearing like they use in drive shaft universal joints. Lee says that's where they get the pins for decapping rods. It probably is your electronic tool. try fresh batteries.
Leo

[Bazoo]

Is it possible you didn't have the pilot seated all the way in the cutter when you started?

[la5676]

@ poppy42 I'd love to look into a Giraud trimmer, I think they are the bee's knees, but at 65, just not ready to drop the dough on something that the wife or kids would prolly sell for $10 at a garage sale when I assume room temp.

@ 44magleo I'll have the wife unit grab a battery next time, I think I am out in the kitchen drawer basket. I think my little drill is way slower than that. A little 4 volt DC, 180 rpm. I'd like it much faster, but that's what we had.

@bazoo I put it in with a vise grips on the pilot, and my cutter is on a ball, so a good grip on both ends. I thought about that too. But, if that was the case, then I think the first few bags of a thousand might get loaded at 1.750, the rest, shorter, and just hope I catch the interface. They are bagged.

Like I said, the "alleged" short cases guage flush in the Lyman. I'll have to go down in the playroom in a few days. It's a long ways around. Gotta go out in the garage to get on my Polaris, ride it around to the basement walkout door to get into the playroom located down there. I'll grab a few of the first run cases and re-check them with the mic, and also check in the guage.

Thanks guys.

[poppy42]

@ poppy42 I'd love to look into a Giraud trimmer, I think they are the bee's knees, but at 65, just not ready to drop the dough on something that the wife or kids would prolly sell for $10 at a garage sale when I assume room temp.

@ 44magleo I'll have the wife unit grab a battery next time, I think I am out in the kitchen drawer basket. I think my little drill is way slower than that. A little 4 volt DC, 180 rpm. I'd like it much faster, but that's what we had.

@bazoo I put it in with a vise grips on the pilot, and my cutter is on a ball, so a good grip on both ends. I thought about that too. But, if that was the case, then I think the first few bags of a thousand might get loaded at 1.750, the rest, shorter, and just hope I catch the interface. They are bagged.

Like I said, the "alleged" short cases guage flush in the Lyman. I'll have to go down in the playroom in a few days. It's a long ways around. Gotta go out in the garage to get on my Polaris, ride it around to the basement walkout door to get into the playroom located down there. I'll grab a few of the first run cases and re-check them with the mic, and also check in the guage.

Thanks guys.

What’s a giraud trimmer?

[country gent]

What may have happened is the pin ends finish wasn't up or square and as the hardened pin wire in to a match it shortened. The other that pops in my mind is the stud bears against the sharp edges of the cutter and while not rotating vibration may have worked the cutter edges into the pilot. .005 isnt a real large amount.

[la5676]

@ poppy42 go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u-nYYsRlxk he has this mounted in a drill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u-nYYsRlxk
and this the complete Giraud desk mounted set-up, but alal you really need are the heads if you have a way to drive it but higher RPMs is a must it looks like.

No joy on the batteries. still reads 1.745.

@ countrygent Didn't really follow all that, but you are right. .005 isn't a lot, and I really doubt I even see the variation in seating with cannelures. Smoothe sided projos, no problem.

[country gent]

Where the stud buts against the cutter is on the sharp edges of the cutter vibration may have allowed the stud to seat a little deeper.

[la5676]

Where the stud buts against the cutter is on the sharp edges of the cutter vibration may have allowed the stud to seat a little deeper.

Gotcha now. I pulled stud off. Can't see any cuts, or wear on cutter blade, but I'll bet they are super hardened. I measured the stud while off the cutter from shoulder to end of pin. I got 1.752, yeah, I know, a slight angle there, but still, wouldn't have thought that much. I have another stud, and stuck it on the cutter. Micced the case out of that, 1.755, and it showed long in the guage by every bit of that. It's hard to distinguish the difference between .005 and .010 with the nikkid eye, but it sure looked like that case was sticking out farther than the gap I could see in my calipers of a .005 gap while holding up to the light. Saying my measure 1.755 is really 1.760, and likely my 1.745 is likely a true 1.75. Time to double check my electronic micrometer again, and maybe look at another one. I'm just kinda watched by this Nurse Ratched at home here, she wants me to get better, and not have to do this again. I may have to sent her on a liquor run and go downstairs while she's gone.

[MUSTANG]

I used the Lee case trimmer for years (like the one in pic below). I experienced over time the brass would incrementally be trimmed shorter. Cause was the win that extended through the flash hole; was wearing dimple into the case holder that fit into the drill. This slight dimple was the cause for the shorter cases over time.

268422

[Mk42gunner]

...I don't trust any of the electronic measuring devices I can afford....
Leo

This describes me and electronic precision measuring devices perfectly. If I can afford it, its not precise enough or repeatable enough for what I want it for.

Robert

[poppy42]

@ poppy42 go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u-nYYsRlxk he has this mounted in a drill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u-nYYsRlxk
and this the complete Giraud desk mounted set-up, but alal you really need are the heads if you have a way to drive it but higher RPMs is a must it looks like.

No joy on the batteries. still reads 1.745.

@ countrygent Didn't really follow all that, but you are right. .005 isn't a lot, and I really doubt I even see the variation in seating with cannelures. Smoothe sided projos, no problem.

Ok Watch the video and it looks like a really cool trimmer but I’m kind of with you. Being 64 and on a Social Security budget if I had the funds to get one of those for every caliber I trimmed, including my Makarov, I have enough money to get that 357 GP 100 revolver I’ve been saving for. Definitely cool trimmer, but A little out Of my budget. Unless I win the lottery I’m gonna have to stick with my Lyman universal case trimmer for my normal cases, and My CH4D file trim die for my Makarov brass. Especially considering I’ve spent more on replacing the Lee case trimmers then I did to get my file trim die and I don’t see any way that could possibly wear out.

[la5676]

I used the Lee case trimmer for years (like the one in pic below). I experienced over time the brass would incrementally be trimmed shorter. Cause was the win that extended through the flash hole; was wearing dimple into the case holder that fit into the drill. This slight dimple was the cause for the shorter cases over time.

268422

I haven't reached that point yet. See post #3. Although I could see it happening over time, I haven't got there yet.

I'm doing this by hand in a chair, not in a vise or on a plate, and with a little 4 volt 180 RPM drill. You can tell almost immediately when the brass quits shaving and OAL has been reached, simply with light hand pressure. I would think this would take a heck of a long time to develop much of a dimple. I could be wrong.

[MT Chambers]

You need the Lee `Zip-trim` trims your cases by just pulling on the string.

[la5676]

You need the Lee `Zip-trim` trims your cases by just pulling on the string.

Well, in my predicament here, that wouldn't work at all, can't mount it to my lap. I bought the LEE power quick trim case trimmer, and just wasn't all that impressed with it, and it needs to be installed in a press, and I'm working from a chair.

And the Zip trim still doesn't alleviate the issues addressed above. By hand or by string,the stud is still gonna wear over time it appears.

[robg]

been using lee trimmers for years ,no problems yet using an electric drill/ screwdriver ,but i dont press the cutter hard into the case, just let it do the work.

[JoeJames]

I just started using a Lee Case trimmer set for .308. I had been using the same set up for .223, with a different pin and case-holder of course and in that caliber it seemed to trim them a bit shorter than the recommended case trim to length. However, I was surprised that the 308 trimmer came out exactly to spec.: 2.005. No more no less!

[lightman]

If your cases are getting trimmed shorter you just about have to be having some wear to the tool. Either the guide pin or on the stud/shellholder. In the past I have used Lee trimmers a lot and I have several that show a measurable amount of wear.

I hope you recover and get back on your feet soon.

[la5676]

If your cases are getting trimmed shorter you just about have to be having some wear to the tool. Either the guide pin or on the stud/shellholder. In the past I have used Lee trimmers a lot and I have several that show a measurable amount of wear.

I hope you recover and get back on your feet soon.
That apparently is exactly what is going on. I finally got downstairs to grab the Starret micrometer and a handful of the very first cases trimmed. It looks like my electronic calipers are reading true. The first ones were 1.750 +/-.0005, using both tools. The later cases are a strong 1.745. I noticed the pin is very flat on the end, no rounded tip. Never noticed if it was flat to begin with. Anyway. I'll keep an eye on case length. I think I can tolerate the .005 so far, but if I drop any more, I better swap studs, and order some more. Have several thousand to go.

[Mk42gunner]

Lord knows I hate case trimming, but the original Lee setup is about the least annoying way to go.

I have never worn the length gauge more than a light polish on the end, but did wonder about it happening. Apparently it can happen.

It has been close to twenty years since I bought any of the length gauges, but as I recall they are pretty inexpensive. I would order a couple of extras, if you can still find them.

Hope your hip gets to feeling better soon. I see a replacement for my left hip in the future, not really looking forward to that.

Robert

[Geezer in NH]

I have a bunch of the Lee trimmers, But have used my Dillon power trimmer more in the last few years and am happy I do.

Costs way more but simple to use. If I was worried about the cost I would have been using my Forster lathe type trimmer instead.

Who ever said reloading saves money? What a great freaking salesman, I hope he got a good pension out of that he earned it :bigsmyl2:.

[blikseme300]

Yep, the Lee trimmers do appear to shrink over time, but very slowly. Personally, I won’t lose sleep over such a minor change in a bottle necked case. I understand the need for economy and even though I have a number of other trimmers, including 2 Dillon RT1500’s, the Lee and other types still have a place in my shop. My reason for getting the power trimmers for my volume cartridges is that I have had CTS surgery and have arthritis. It was giving up on those or get tools that don’t hurt me.

There is another reason for the Lee system to create different lengths. The offset provided by the case head material is sometimes different between manufacturers. As the pilot spaces off that there will be a difference in case OAL.

Some trimmers index off the case shoulder and others of the case head, some by contacting the head surface along the flat and others by squeezing the edge of the case head. Each of these systems will have varying levels of accuracy, variation or consistency. So much variety and throughput capabilities that you need to make your decision based upon your needs and capabilities.

[jetinteriorguy]

Lyman makes a similar setup to the Lee trimmer, except it works much much better.