Straight wall case hunting

[Mike in MD]

MD finally approved hunting with straight wall rifle cases in our more densely populated areas. Many guys are rushing toward the new 350 Legend, both in bolt action and AR. I'm just happy to reach for my Encore MGM 357 Max. And sad that I sold my 45/70 lever.

I'm pretty sure my load of 1680 in the max is up to the task. I do wonder about a big flat metplat vs a hollow point. Right now I'm leaning toward big flat.

[Kosh75287]

There's LOTSA hunting that I HAVE NOT done, but with larger caliber rounds, I sure gravitate toward the "large flat". It seems to do its job, whether any expansion occurs or not.

[bikerbeans]

Large meplat trumps a hollow point. 1680 is the correct powder for the "Max". Good luck hunting this season.

BB

[white eagle]

I would choose either in the 45-70 depending on animal being hunted
hunting is the key though the more of it the better

[Tripplebeards]

I have a nib 450BM ruger gunsight scout for the occasion.

[P Flados]

Having a proven Encore in 357 max sounds like a winner to me.

The Legend ballistics are not any better than the Max and the Legend has a lot more "issues" associated with headspacing on the mouth.

The Lee 200 or anything with a bigger meplat will perform exactly as you expect. A little less likely to give a DRT, but good enough and reliable.

The biggest issue with the Max over the years has been with people not getting desired expansion from J words. This can be too much or too little. From what I have been able to determine, there is still some of that going on with the new Legend specific bullets.

[DougGuy]

Jeez sure I don't need a 700 nitro double? :kidding:

[Drm50]

White Tail deer are not Cape Buffalo. In Ohio we must use 38cal minimum. Most deer shoot under 100yds. A 357mg is adequate for the job. Obsessing over meta plates and hollow points is arm chair stuff. I have 45/70, 44mg and 375Win. The 45/70 is a lot of gun for deer. No question it will kill them, bullet matters little. Same with 44mg. I have never killed a deer with modern 47/70. I have shot a few with Trapdoor and Rolling Block with cast boolits and Unique. With 44mg have never shot a deer with rifle. Have shot several with Ruger SBH/ 240gr JHP. The 375Win is #3 Ruger and I was fooling with it with spitzer bullets. I think it will offer the flattest shooting package that has dead bang 300yd accuracy. New rifle hunters that have to use straight case should realize they don’t need a cannon. I don’t like the 350Legend but it is perfectly capable of taking a deer. There may be some new straight case cartridges with better performance than something that is designed for AR platform. I have done considerable reading and fooling with straight cases and believe the sweet spot may be a Super Max 357 with Spitzer bullet. A case like 44mg:444 only in 357 cal.

[Mike in MD]

correct me if I'm mistaken. .57 Max 1.605 .357 Super Max 1.610 I can make due without the extra .05 inches in a pinch. But I am also the guy looking at the 414 super mag over the 41 mag.

[Shawlerbrook]

I would be more than satisfied with the 357 Max if I had to use a straight wall case. In my stable I would probably pick either a 44, 444 or 38 55 if allowed.

[Drm50]

375Win is hot 38/55. Case is heavier but little shorter. The point I was trying to make is the straight cases are like a arms race. The whole idea of them was to limit velocity/ range. The traditional deer rifles 30/30, 32, 35Rem are no more dangerous but not legal.

[Shawlerbrook]

I agree DRM. When we switched from shotguns to rifles here in NYS, hunting accidents actually went down . We gradually went to rifle in almost all NYS and some areas are quite populated. Around here we actually hear less bang, bang, bang, bang shooting now most use rifles with scopes instead of semi auto shotguns.

[dragon813gt]

And here I am able to use whatever rifle round I want and I choose to take an 1894C in 357 Mag more often than not. Deer are taken at archery range due to vegetation. No one is shooting 100+ yards unless they are in a corn field. And even then you’re usually limited due to houses along the perimeter.

The not so amusing part is I have to watch what side of the hill I’m on. The side opposite my house in a shotgun only management area. None residents get gigged by the game wardens every year.

[Prodigal Son]

268432the 405 JESS putting in the freezer! 300 gr. Cast GC @1800 fps is a hammer!

[richhodg66]

I agree DRM. When we switched from shotguns to rifles here in NYS, hunting accidents actually went down . We gradually went to rifle in almost all NYS and some areas are quite populated. Around here we actually hear less bang, bang, bang, bang shooting now most use rifles with scopes instead of semi auto shotguns.

This is very interesting to me. We're allowed to use what we want, they even legalized .22 Centerfires a few years ago. But if I was restricted to straight walled, I'd have no problem using a .45-70 or .38-55.

[hc18flyer]

Nebraska is a rifle state, so I could use my 280 Rem, but that is 'overkill at tree stand ranges, rarely over 100 yards. This year I will be using my Henry single shot reamed to 357 Maximum and the Larsen 180 fp group buy and a soft alloy. For our kind of hunting I think it will be perfect, mostly trying to fill the larder, takes a lot of simmering to get 'horns tender nuff to eat anyway! Tom

[farmerjim]

Every deer I have shot with my 357 Max Handi with 200 gr RNFP has been DRT. Ranges 100 to 150 yds.

[hc18flyer]

Every deer I have shot with my 357 Max Handi with 200 gr RNFP has been DRT. Ranges 100 to 150 yds.

Farmerjim- Oh, I have the NOE 200+ fp/hp mold (ment for .38 snubbies) on order for next year, pretty sure that will be overkill too! My compact 4x Leupold and the Max, ought to be outstanding inside 125 yards! Damn, getting excited a month early, Tom

[gumbo333]

hc18flyer, I thought your deer harvester was a cool handgun?

[dverna]

I helped my buddy sight in a .350 in a Savage Axis. Mild recoil and shot under 2 MOA with Hornady factory loads.

Seems like a decent package for deer hunting. He has a .450 in a Ruger and it kicks a lot more...plus it seems a bit much for a corn cruncher.

For most people who do not reload, and the even fewer that cast, the .350 makes sense if a cartridge like that is required. Ammunition is not very expensive and the rifles are affordable. IIRC my buddy paid under $250 when Dunham had them on sale. I have never seen a "cheap" .38/55, 45/70, etc.

If I had to hunt in southern MI, I would get the .350 and shoot factory ammunition. IMHO not worth reloading to save $10-15/year.

I am in the camp that these "restrictions" are worthless in terms of increasing safety. A rifle is a rifle. If safety is the concern, make it shotgun and buckshot only. Any rifle is going to reach out a long way.

[Mike in MD]

DRM, sorry I missed your point there. I wish I had kept my 45/70 now. I agree with the thought that you hear fewer shots in a rifle area.
I disagree with dverna about the buckshot. I've hunted thickets on public land in shotgun only areas. A full third of the "hunters" round here need to go through another hunter safety course. JMO
I think some guys just want to hunt with their AR. I'm not sure an AR would feed a big flat boolit up that feed ramp.

[Drm50]

correct me if I'm mistaken. .57 Max 1.605 .357 Super Max 1.610 I can make due without the extra .05 inches in a pinch. But I am also the guy looking at the 414 super mag over the 41 mag.
I guess what I was talking about is a super super 357 max. Proportioned like 44mg is to 444. I say 357 because it’s smallest legal diameter.

Most hunting accidents in Ohio take place at starting or finishing point. More are hurt and killed loading and unloading than wild shots. The traditional deer guns are most under 2500fps which puts them in same boat as straight cases.

In Ohio when it was slug you could tell where the deer was at and what direction he was going by shots. Everybody had 8shot extensions on 12g autos. We did go to 3shot finally. Even now it’s 3 shot in rifles. Honor system, used to have to be plugged.

[hc18flyer]

Gumbo, Yup last year I used my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. This year both my Grandson and I hope to use the 357 Max. Tom

[gumbo333]

flyer, the best of luck to both of you. Hunting with your grandson is very special. Did not intend to hijack this thread.

[cwlongshot]

Dumped many a whitetail with a Maxi and a 180 SSP and about 26g aa1680 powder!!!

I have the legend as well now. Maxi lods are good START LOADS for the legend.

I really like both the 180 & 190 RANCH DOG molds iffin ya want a GOOD WFP hunting bullet!!

4744/4227/h110 all do a fine job with it!!

Cast of WW NOT QUENCHED and shot to mig 18-1900's should give some good expansion too!


I picked up a Lyman 358430 mold and then wanted it HP'ed. Decided upon a NOE 358-297 HP mold. Its close to 430's bulbus nose that I like. (Think 311440) Both drop a 200g (lil
Less in HP)
I also borrowed a MP 359-220 HP mold and this one is a true gem!! Think RCBS 358-210!! So far accuracy is real good with MP BUT ONLY adequate with lyman/NOE.

GOOD LUCK!

CW
CW

[hc18flyer]

CW- I have some of the Hornady 180 SSP's and A1680, that is another load to work up for the Henry. Maybe Isaac will work it up and hunt with it?

[cwlongshot]

CW- I have some of the Hornady 180 SSP's and A1680, that is another load to work up for the Henry. Maybe Isaac will work it up and hunt with it?. ITS A GOOD ONE!!

Limit velocity to 2200 on critter. If ya hit big bones north of 2100 ish ya probably will
Have bullet break up. I have seen it a few times but never lost a animal so 8 fall short of callit it failure.

But down 14-1500 ish nice mushrooms proven by exit holes. Only partial bullets ever recovered after hitting shoulders inside 50 yards.

Im working with them resized in the legend. So far 22h imr4227 is a mild load in the mid 45k range but shooting MOA AND 2000 fps 15' out from my 20".

CW

[cainttype]

The big advantage of the 350L is being rimless so it feeds through typical bolt and semi-auto magazines.
The cartridge is more than adequate for medium game hunting if you match the load to your quarry, as is the 357 Maxi.
The HUGE assortment of already available molds and components makes it very attractive for those wanting mild recoil combined with effective field performance.

[PositiveCaster]

...The HUGE assortment of already available molds and components makes it very attractive for those wanting mild recoil combined with effective field performance.

If only the 350L bore size matched all those available components....but I suppose smaller is better than bigger with cast.



.

[cwlongshot]

If only the 350L bore size matched all those available components....but I suppose smaller is better than bigger with cast.
I have been simply sizing down bullets and shooting them!!!

Thin jackets size just fine in a LEE push thru with a lil case lube!

CW


.

Just SIZE THEM!!

[Mike in MD]

In Ohio when it was slug you could tell where the deer was at and what direction he was going by shots. Everybody had 8shot extensions on 12g autos. We did go to 3shot finally. Even now it’s 3 shot in rifles. Honor system, used to have to be plugged.

Same thing here, you knew if the deer were coming or going. We always said, 1 shot meat, 2 shots maybe, 3 shots miss.

[Mike in MD]

Just SIZE THEM!!

My max wants to shoot .360. That legend is listed at .355 but who knows what the gun might want to shoot for real. Add in the fact that it has to feed properly. I wonder how touchy it might be finding a balance.

Just bringing that up now because my buddy is sending his upper back to the manufacturer because it only picks up the next round less than half the time. I have yet to have a FTF issue with any of my TC's LOL

[cwlongshot]

I have had more feeding issues from my Ruger Bolt (ar mag) then I have with my AR 350!


Its shooting my NOE 360/232 and the Lee TL359/190 just fine!! Reliably (Still working on accuracy ;) )

Speer & Hornady 180's size down perfectly. Hornady 200 ftx do as well. I have a small hord of Remington 150 CL's that are also shooting well. ALL where .358 bullets.

Cast isnt worth mentioning as ya buy a sizer for what ya want ANY 355-260 mold can be sized to suite the Legend. I shoot them all @ .356.

CW

[Mike in MD]

Thanks CW Good info.

[garandsrus]

I didn’t have to size the FTX bullets to feed in a Savage Axis in 350 Legend. I do have to size the Hornady 180gr SSP and of course the cast bullets. The RCBS-35-200 feeds and shoots well. Large meplats won’t feed for me.

I also used my 357 Max loads for starting loads with cast.

[cwlongshot]

I didn’t have to size the FTX bullets to feed in a Savage Axis in 350 Legend. I do have to size the Hornady 180gr SSP and of course the cast bullets. The RCBS-35-200 feeds and shoots well. Large meplats won’t feed for me.

I also used my 357 Max loads for starting loads with cast.


The FTX are lasers in my Ruger Bolt. But my Faxon barrel dont like them!! ;(. BUT it seems to feed even the 190 RD LEE bullet!!

CW

[Mike in MD]

I have two of the molds mentioned, and load data for my MAX. I was looking at the Faxon barrel. One of the few available right now. I'm trying to decide on barrel length. 16.5, 18, or the 20

[P Flados]

As a long time shooter of the 357 Maximum in handguns, I went with 16.25" when I built my 357AR.

Just for comparison, I ran Quickload estimates for 357 Max cast bullet velocity of different barrel lengths:

200 gr, 26.0 gr 1680, 2003 fps (20") and 1938 (16.5")
200 gr, 23.5 gr H110, 2010 fps (20") and 1948 fps (16.5")
180 gr, 25.5 gr H110, 2170 fps (20") and 2100 fps (16.5")

So the extra 4" gives an extra 62 to 70 fps in the above examples.

I am happy with my 16.25" AR in terms of gun weight and handiness.

[Mike in MD]

That just made my decision easier.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Big flat meplat or Keith style swc [emoji1360]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dinny]

Speaking of j-words one shouldn't overlook Uncle Dino's bullets: https://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/216/.358-caliber

The truncated nose bullets shoot exceptionally well in my Maxi rifles and hold together even at 358 Win velocities.

Thanks, Dinny