Powder coating instead of gas checks?

[Jjmwandell]

ive been looking online and came across a few youtube videos of people using powder coat instead of gas checks. They are just putting thr CB in a tub and swirling it to coat it, then putting them in a old toaster oven. Any thoughts? Cheaper? Better for the gun?
Thanks

[DAFzipper]

Do it all the time. Works great for me. What caliber are you thinking about?

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

[hickfu]

You clicked on Cast boolits to post here... go down 4 more and click on http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives

[Jjmwandell]

I cast for 9mm 30-30 and .308

[mehavey]

Powder Coating gives you more margin** to work with, but does NOT
take the place of a gas check beyond higher pressures/speeds




** I'd estimate 2-3+ BN#'s max based on trials/experience

[charlie b]

If the bullet is made for a gas check, then it will usually be less accurate without one. Maybe not enough to tell at pistol ranges, but, for rifles you will see a significant difference.

If you want to shoot without a GC then get a plain base bullet and powder coat it. I have fired such bullets in my .308 up to 1800fps with no leading and decent accuracy (<2MOA).

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Powder Coating gives you more margin** to work with, but does NOT
take the place of a gas check beyond higher pressures/speeds

I have embraced the powder coating for everything except black powder, pistol, rifle (plain based), and gas checked rifle. My experiments have included powder coated 224" boolits fitted with a gas check after powder coating then using an 0.225" sizer to seat GC. I am getting 2470fps with good accuracy and no leading.

This week at the range I will be loading my 303 British to try to get 2400fps with a similarly coated and gas checked boolit.

https://i.imgur.com/02GXeqo.jpg

[mehavey]

Where you gettin' them nice wooden boxes? :smile:

[Conditor22]

"Powder Coating gives you more margin to work with, but does NOT
take the place of a gas check beyond higher pressures/speeds"

↑↑↑↑ THIS ↑↑↑↑

[koyote]

what I don't know is where that line is for gas checks. hot .327 loads?

[MT Gianni]

what I don't know is where that line is for gas checks. hot .327 loads?

It is different for every gun, not every cartridge.

[bangerjim]

PC does NOT replace GC's in high velocity loads. I never GC any of my subsonic or (close to) sonic loads. 30-30 and 30-06 FULL HOUSE loads are a different story. And mabe 44MAG full hose loads. PC does not offer the protection you need for those hi end loads. It protects the sides only.

And that is based on the gun barrel! Each one is different as said above. Do what you need to get max performance/accuracy and minimum barrel clean-up.

In other words.....PLAY AROUND. [smilie=w:

ps.......there are youtube videos showing you everything under the sum. If not from a manufacturer, I do not trust anything on youtube. People just like to hear themselves talk on "TV".

[charlie b]

I have embraced the powder coating for everything except black powder, pistol, rifle (plain based), and gas checked rifle. My experiments have included powder coated 224" boolits fitted with a gas check after powder coating then using an 0.225" sizer to seat GC. I am getting 2470fps with good accuracy and no leading.


Did you really mean it the way you wrote it? No PC on pistol or rifle?

Maybe you meant '...everything except black powder.'

[GregLaROCHE]

PC works fine with BP for me. I’m not trying to be a purest or re-enacter. I just enjoy shooting BP.

[Hanzy4200]

PC'ing really has opened up a lot of options for people. I personally like having the option to shoot PB bullets to magnum velocity without purchasing a GC mold, or GC's.

[la5676]

If the bullet is made for a gas check, then it will usually be less accurate without one. Maybe not enough to tell at pistol ranges, but, for rifles you will see a significant difference.

If you want to shoot without a GC then get a plain base bullet and powder coat it. I have fired such bullets in my .308 up to 1800fps with no leading and decent accuracy (<2MOA).

In rifle boolits, I'll buy what you are saying, but for pistol boolits, I've seen people make this argument, but I really don't see the difference between shooting a gas check boolit without a gas check as opposed to a bevel base boolit. There isn't much difference.

[dtknowles]

I cast for 9mm 30-30 and .308

What velocities? You don't need PC or a gas check for the 9mm. For the 30-30, if you are going for max you will need one or the other. Me I use a gas check. For the .308, definitively you need a gas check if you are pushing them hard, we are not talking about leading but structural strength. You need a gas check and a hard alloy and still you won't get good accuracy at factory velocities.

Tim

[charlie b]

In rifle boolits, I'll buy what you are saying, but for pistol boolits, I've seen people make this argument, but I really don't see the difference between shooting a gas check boolit without a gas check as opposed to a bevel base boolit. There isn't much difference.

I agree, unless you are one of those gifted people who can shoot small groups at range with a pistol. 25yd and less it makes no difference for the average person.

[Newtire]

If the boolit is designed for a gas check zI get lousy accuracy without using a gas check. Powder Coating has saved me money and time by going to plain based bullets. Best thing is to try it for yourself.

[jdgabbard]

Powder Coating gives you more margin** to work with, but does NOT
take the place of a gas check beyond higher pressures/speeds




** I'd estimate 2-3+ BN#'s max based on trials/experience

This is not necessarily true. I shoot higher velocity bullets with non-GC PC'd boolits all the time without any leading. Pretty much the barrier for me seems to be around 1600-1800fps in the cartridges I have shot. This is assuming I size them to 0.002" over, and the barrel is a good clean barrel, and not a sewer pipe. .357mag, no need for a GC 99% of the time when using PC. 7.62x25 in a rifle at nearly 1700fps, no gas check, no leading. 7.62x39 at around 1800, it needs one. 5.56/.223, it needs one.

It would probably be a more accurate statement that Rifle Caliber Loads using CB may require GCs. But even this isn't always the case. PC has done away with my requirement for GC in about 75% of the applications where I would have used one before.

[2TM101]

The "Bore Rider" style of rifle bullet molds CANNOT be powder coated as they will no longer fit. So hard cast, lube & gas check those.

I've seen people "Nose Sizing" or coating only half the bullet I won't do that myself. If hard casting, lube and a gas check is not enough its time to just buy ready made.

[jdgabbard]

The "Bore Rider" style of rifle bullet molds CANNOT be powder coated as they will no longer fit. So hard cast, lube & gas check those.

I've seen people "Nose Sizing" or coating only half the bullet I won't do that myself. If hard casting, lube and a gas check is not enough its time to just buy ready made.

Another generalization. That is not a universal truth. Look at the Lee 155gr and 160gr bullets for 7.62x39. Those are technically bore riding designs that work perfectly fine when PC'd. The issue with Bore Riding designs has more to do with the throat of the rifle in question than the bullet itself. Really, it comes down to whether the bullet will chamber when PC'd.

[Newtire]

Was just gonna say! I use the RCBS Silhouette 165 trainer in my Garand and there is no interference (not wanting any slam fires).

[fredj338]

I have had the gc taken off several pistol molds. Its just not needed imo with PC today. I can run 125gr @ 1400fps in 357 or 250gr @ 1400 in 44mag & anything under that without leading & good accuracy. GC are quite expensive today. PC bullets are almost free if you scrounge alloy.

[charlie b]

The "Bore Rider" style of rifle bullet molds CANNOT be powder coated as they will no longer fit. So hard cast, lube & gas check those.

I've seen people "Nose Sizing" or coating only half the bullet I won't do that myself. If hard casting, lube and a gas check is not enough its time to just buy ready made.

As above said, not always true. Depends on the mold and your chamber throat.

You don't have to nose size if you don't want to. Don't have to PC either. Some of us do both as well as shoot some with conventional lube run through a lubesizer.

You can also find a mold you want from Accurate and you can have the nose undersized a bit for PC.

Examples: The RCBS 165SIL and Lyman 311299 are both a perfect fit in my .308 without PC and they shoot really well. They would not fit as is if PC applied. But, if you use a nose sizer on them then they can be used with PC and they shoot just as well. The Lee 180gn needed PC to fit. The bore riding section was too small for my rifle with conventional lube. The Acc 31-210E mold I have was ordered with an undersize nose for PC and it fits perfectly. It is horrible when run with conventional lube.

[mehavey]

I pretty much PC everything these days.
But if/when I have a bore rider,
I just ALOX it.

Why fight the problem.....

[mehavey]

Quote Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
Powder Coating gives you more margin** to work with, but does NOT
take the place of a gas check beyond higher pressures/speeds

** I'd estimate 2-3+ BN#'s max based on trials/experience

This is not necessarily true. I shoot higher velocity bullets with non-GC PC'd boolits all the time without any leading. Pretty much the barrier for me seems to be around 1600-1800fps
By higher-pressures/speeds, I mean 2,200 & up.
As to non-GC'd/PC'd plain-base, 1,800++ is no problemmo w/just pure lead (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?409893-Pure-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471).

Where one gets in trouble w/ plain base/non-GC'd is when the naked trailing edge is exposed to a gas port still at high pressure (like AKs, ARs, Garands, etc)

[BJung]

This is my take on gas checks and powder coating. First, powder coating seals the bullet so I don't have to worry about lead exposure, corrosion, and the mess associated with lube. I don't shake the powdered paint in a plastic jug anymore and use my tumbler. It coats the bullets better with powder and the container can be cleaned with soap and water. Others mention that powder coating replaces the gas check and bullets could be shot at jacketed velocities. I am not convinced and believe that it helps the bullet resist pressure on the bullet better. To shoot a cast bullet that resists more pressure, try water dropping it. Tempering the lead is obvious if you take a newly cast ingot and cool it off with tap water. Then compare the hardness of this ingot to one you air cooled. Some casts will water drop their cast bullets into water. Others drop their PC bullets into water. To retain the hard base and soft tip, some submerge the base and shank in water and use a propane torch to heat the tip and remove the tempering.. I plan to heat the bullet and temper the base so my hp bullets will expand. In addition I will compare loads with these bullets to other bullets that have a gas check. Either way the goal is to reduce obturation from the excess pressure.

I think gas checks reduce bullet obturation from excessive pressure and ensures better accuracy.

My barrels do not lead with PC coated bullets. With a maximum load, the paint stays on. Bullets cast with range lead and higher bhn has shown to be more accurate for my higher chambered 40cal.