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JimB..
09-25-2020, 10:28 AM
Pretty sure that this doesn't qualify as deep theological discussion, but it's Friday.

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Why not? Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

Thundarstick
09-26-2020, 05:29 AM
The Jews don't recognize Christ, the Muslims don't recognize Christ, and the Baptist don't recognize each other in the liquor store! :roll:

.429&H110
09-30-2020, 12:05 AM
I am an independent Baptist.
I believe my Lord put alcohol, opium,
sweetgrass, frankincense, spices
on earth to ease pain,
not to cause pain.
As I enjoy saying:
you have a choice.
Choose well.

dannyd
09-30-2020, 10:06 AM
There are 210 different types of Baptist in the US.

William Yanda
09-30-2020, 10:15 AM
There are 210 different types of Baptist in the US.

and 211 opinions on any subject.

1hole
09-30-2020, 07:39 PM
There are 210 different types of Baptist in the US.

I'd have to see some documentation on numbers like that before I swallowed it as stated.

.429&H110
09-30-2020, 08:29 PM
My grandfather was a Northern Baptist,
he didn't get along with Southern Baptist,
as an Independent Baptist,
a jeremiad:
America has failed church, as
church has failed America.
You can find some of us that still believe.
Over 1600 people have been killed
in church in this century, mostly Baptists.
I think we have the deceiver's attention.
"Demons believe, and tremble".

Football on Sunday.
Easter bunny.
Candy on Halloween.
Santa for Christmas.
Getting hammered for New Years.
Worshiping Fords.
Coveting everything "new".
Where's your joy?
Alcohol will kill joy.
Make you shoot, and miss.
Your choice.
Choose well.

.429&H110
09-30-2020, 09:11 PM
I would take 210 as a good start at counting.
Pentecostals, Evangelicals, Free Will, Northern, Southern, Independent, every time anyone has a hissy fit, half the congregation moves next door, puts up a new sign.
At least we aren't the Church of England anymore. She is a nice enough lady, but the Queen is not my Pope.

All I would ask of a church is basing worship on the Word of God. Gospel- read it!
Repent- turn from sin- choose life
Redeem- believe the promise that your sins were paid for
Renew- become a new man, find your joy!

The early church met on the roof while the Romans were banging on the door. Will we come to that?

dannyd
09-30-2020, 09:32 PM
I'd have to see some documentation on numbers like that before I swallowed it as stated.


I will have to see if I still have my list made it because my old man was a Hard Shell and the last boat I was on the chaplain was American Baptist. They were the two Extremes: the first one all you could do was Work and Church the second one you could drink, smoke runaround. That's why I do KJB and Jesus but not church. Been over 25 years sense I did the research surprised me too never knew about Calvinism or the Anabaptism.

Walks
09-30-2020, 09:45 PM
My Dad converted to Judism when He married My Mom. Was a good practicing Jew until the divorce 23yrs later.
He always said if you put 2 Jews in a room, you'll get 3 Opinions.

I married a Southern Baptist.
Found out if you put 3 So Baptists in a room, you'll get a bar brawl.

dannyd
09-30-2020, 10:10 PM
My Dad converted to Judism when He married My Mom. Was a good practicing Jew until the divorce 23yrs later.
He always said if you put 2 Jews in a room, you'll get 3 Opinions.

I married a Southern Baptist.
Found out if you put 3 So Baptists in a room, you'll get a bar brawl.

I married a Catholic and let me tell you that went over well; Not. How I found out she was a Catholic was funny; " In a phone booth telling my parents I'm getting married and my mom asked what religion is she, so I ask her the Answer Catholic. It would have went over been better if she had been a street walker.

.429&H110
09-30-2020, 11:41 PM
Brigadier General Henry Roberts wrote Roberts Rules of Order because of a Baptist prayer meeting. Was needful.
Old business
New business
Motion to adjourn
Seconded.

1hole
10-01-2020, 11:28 AM
I will have to see if I still have my list made it because my old man was a Hard Shell and the last boat I was on the chaplain was American Baptist.

They were the two Extremes: the first one all you could do was Work and Church the second one you could drink, smoke runaround. That's why I do KJB and Jesus but not church. Been over 25 years sense I did the research surprised me too never knew about Calvinism or the Anabaptism.

Okay, you name two and I can accept that as true. But we're still two hundred eight away from two hundred ten.

The real problem with this subject is that so many religious splinter groups call themselves what they are not. Example: You describe "American Baptist" but nothing about them is Baptist except the name they have chosen and that doesn't make them Baptist does it?

I mean a name is just a name, it doesn't mean anything if that's not what it is. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church and never even heard of "American Baptist" before now. Those people could just as well call themselves Methodist or Presbyterian but, if that group's doctrine is not the core of what they teach, it's not what they are!

There are several legitimate groups sailing under the name of Baptist but it's by no means as many groups as what you've read; I could just as well call myself "handsome" (and even believe it!) but it would be a lie because that's not what I am. Ditto, by your description, American Baptists are NOT Baptist and I suspect that truth applies to the vast majority of those two hundred ten groups who claim to be Baptist!

That extends to other groups as well. I once read a long list of religious groups professing to be some form of Catholic but, in fairness, most of them really aren't Catholic at all (meaning they're much weirder than the real thing). ;)

Der Gebirgsjager
10-01-2020, 01:02 PM
Fellas, let me inject a caution here. There's nothing that will start a fight more readily than criticizing a man's dog, rifle, pick-up truck, or religion. We don't want to insinuate that some religious groups are "weird", because they might think the same of your beliefs, and then the stuff will hit the fan and the fight will be on. So, feel free to exercise your 1st Amendment Rights, but with circumspection. Please.
DG

dannyd
10-01-2020, 01:21 PM
Okay, you name two and I can accept that as true. But we're still two hundred eight away from two hundred ten.

The real problem with this subject is that so many religious splinter groups call themselves what they are not. Example: You describe "American Baptist" but nothing about them is Baptist except the name they have chosen and that doesn't make them Baptist does it?

I mean a name is just a name, it doesn't mean anything if that's not what it is. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church and never even heard of "American Baptist" before now. Those people could just as well call themselves Methodist or Presbyterian but, if that group's doctrine is not the core of what they teach, it's not what they are!

There are several legitimate groups sailing under the name of Baptist but it's by no means as many groups as what you've read; I could just as well call myself "handsome" (and even believe it!) but it would be a lie because that's not what I am. Ditto, by your description, American Baptists are NOT Baptist and I suspect that truth applies to the vast majority of those two hundred ten groups who claim to be Baptist!

That extends to other groups as well. I once read a long list of religious groups professing to be some form of Catholic but, in fairness, most of them really aren't Catholic at all (meaning they're much weirder than the real thing). ;)


Call me anything if and until I can find my research from back then. But here in Florida most places are removing Baptist from their name. From what I went through growing up I just don't do Organized Religion. :)

.429&H110
10-01-2020, 10:54 PM
A baptist believes in immersion.
That's all. You have to get dunked.
Like Jesus did.
With a profession of faith,
not sprinkling.
A baby, and most people
cannot profess. Today.
Maybe tomorrow.
Baptism
Wedding
Last Supper
Funeral
A ceremony to state what you believe.
A joining, a promise, not a big deal
unless it's your deal.
Was once an ordinary thing to do.
A choice.
Have we forgotten?
Choose well.

1hole
10-02-2020, 01:29 PM
... We don't want to insinuate that some religious groups are "weird", because they might think the same of your beliefs .... feel free to exercise your 1st Amendment Rights, but with circumspection. Please. DG

Exactly so, that's why I spoke as I did. Seems we all think everyone else is weird in some ways but it's not, by that fact, something threatening and should not be taken so. I wrote those words "tongue-in-cheek" to illustrate that we:

(1) shouldn't be unreasonably hard on others and
(2) we shouldn't be snowflakes ourselves, always looking for real or imagined "insults" (such as this one).

One reason older people tend to be happier than younger people is old folk aren't always on the lookout for something to make them angry! Witness; you don't see many older people on TV screaming, burning, destroying because they are childishly enraged that the world thinks differently from them.

Bottom line, weird people who often disagree with us are the only people we have. If we can't live with and love weird people as they are then we wouldn't care much for anyone. Nor could/would anyone else care much for us. (And THAT is the point of the parable told by the OP.)

1hole
10-02-2020, 02:41 PM
Call me anything if and until I can find my research from back then.

Dan, I don't want to call you anything and you don't need to look up what you read for my sake. I'm confident that you read about "210 kinds of Baptists"; my disagreement is with whomever wrote that number. Baptists have split and re-split through their history but they aren't unique in that, it's happened to every denomination, including Roman Catholics. My point is, none of them have honestly split 210 times in anything but misused names.


But here in Florida most places are removing Baptist from their name.

The Southern Baptist Convention originally used that name to differentiate conservative members from the growing religious "liberals" who believed they knew more about what Christians should do and think than the Holy Bible; so the SBC grew out of a split in doctrines. No surprise there, differences in the view of scripture is what has driven most splits.

Sadly, the same thing is re-occurring today. Many of the SBC's "leadership" of big city churches are again scoffing at scripture. The more Biblically sound congregations are removing "Baptist" from their signs because they want no part of what's being done and taught under their banner. Thus, they are abandoning the name of "Southern Baptist" in order to remain true to their conservative belief in scripture; I'm proud of them for that.


From what I went through growing up I just don't do Organized Religion. :)

Good luck!

We both grew up in a SBC church (in Florida) but, for a variety of Biblical reasons, we've happily been members of an unaffiliated church for some 15 years. Hope it works out well for you but I do caution you to be careful because there is much less long term spiritual safety in following a disorganized church than an organized one.

1hole
10-02-2020, 04:26 PM
A baptist believes in immersion.
That's all. You have to get dunked.

Well, that's true as far as it goes but it's a lot more than that. Baptists also hold Calvinist views of salvation by faith and a God granted grace, not works; they believe that salvation includes a new (spiritual) birth that cannot be lost again; they (wrongly) believe in direct democratic (congregational) rule for each local church; they (wrongly) believe that anyone who even casually drinks any amount of alcohol in any form is sinning against God. They (correctly) don't claim that the bread and wine of communion are changed into anything but are simply objects of spiritual study and contemplation. Etc.


(Baptised).. Like Jesus did. With a profession of faith, not sprinkling.

Maybe, maybe not. Trouble is, we have no ironclad assurance that John baptised (washed) Jesus by dunking.

But, we do KNOW Jesus was not baptised for the remission of sin nor as a representation of a new birth. Nor would he have been baptised according to the scriptural admonition: "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." All meaning that John the baptizer did NOT found the Baptist church and we are not "following Jesus" when we get baptised by dunking - IF that's what John really did.

John's baptism was a wholly different spiritual thing; IF John's [i.e., Jesus'] baptism was the same baptism as the New Testament baptism, the Acts 19:3 event would NOT have made any difference! Ergo, we cannot be "following Jesus", as such, when we get dunked by a New Testament minister.

I certainly have a view of how water baptism should be done but I'm not going to post it or squabble over it. We all can - and should - hold to and rightly follow our personal views of the manner and meaning of water baptism for ourselves but when we get insistent that our view is the only possible Biblical view we err in spirit if not in fact. Fact is, IF scripture was perfectly clear about it, I'm sure we would all agree over the "right" way to view baptism. But, it is NOT all that clear so I use Paul's words as a guide (1 Cor 10:23-29; Rom 14:23). Meaning, if you're happy with your view then I'm happy for you; rest easy, you won't go to hell if you get it wrong! :)

popper
10-02-2020, 04:42 PM
Baptist don't recognize each other in the liquor store Incorrect! we just don't say hi. Wife went to catholic school, raised Batholic and changed when we got married. We decided a compromise was southern baptist - no northern in Texas that I know of.
Seriously, when I was a deacon it was 'no booze', otherwise no drunks. And service MUST get over in time for Cowboys game or beating the Methodists to Lubys.

1hole
10-02-2020, 08:13 PM
... And service MUST get over in time for Cowboys game or beating the Methodists to Lubys.

It's hard to outrun them Methodists to a chow line! :)

A tiny bit of trivia about Sunday services from 11 to 12; it didn't come from Paul and Silas!

I was once told by a Bible scholar that in Martin Luther's time Roman Catholics' scheduled an early hour for common folk's mass each week. When Marty went off the RCC rails he loved to set up late Saturday evenings with beer and debate with friends, often to the wee hours and that made it hard for him to jump up early to meet the rules of an organization that had already kicked him out.

So, it seems he determined to start a bit later but maintained the idea of an hour of worship. Eventually he got to 11 by the clock and couldn't go further without violating expectations of an hour of worship on Sunday mornings.

Today, by and large, the non-RC church still follows that schedule even tho few people know why. I do know how long the entry lines suddenly appear at many good eating places about 12:15!

.429&H110
10-03-2020, 01:52 AM
1hole, I hear you!
You make good points
and I thank you.

I was a little ticked off about Baptists
not recognizing each other...
Alcohol is a curse or a blessing.
Your choice.

When an alcoholic needs help
where is he gonna go?
to a football game?

I am glad to find a group of people who believe prayer is answered, who agree what the Word of God teaches, and what we are gonna do about it. Not perfect but a good start. We condemn alcohol and believe the world was created on a Monday 4004BC. I cannot agree with all I hear, but I do not go there to preach, but to listen. (I suppose I come here to preach, but golly---"Do you believe in Hell?"--- Yes! I will answer that.)

Why make a relationship with God difficult?
It isn't. We all have one.
I find Independent Baptist quite simple.

You wouldn't shoot my reloads
and I won't shoot yours.
We each make our own.
To find out what shoots best.

Thundarstick
10-03-2020, 09:47 AM
No offense meant by the liquor store joke (I've herd it my whole life) insert any name you wish. The point is that we are all good about judging others, but not ourselves! Other groups, but not our group!

MT Gianni
10-03-2020, 10:58 AM
Man is rescued from a solitary Island where he was ship wrecked. They ask him about three structures on the place. First he replies, this is my home, I slept and felt secure here. Over there is where I attended church. OK they replied, what's that third building? Oh, that is where I used to go to church.

dtknowles
10-03-2020, 11:08 AM
Man is rescued from a solitary Island where he was ship wrecked. They ask him about three structures on the place. First he replies, this is my home, I slept and felt secure here. Over there is where I attended church. OK they replied, what's that third building? Oh, that is where I used to go to church.

It is an unending search for a better church. No church has it right but sometimes a church can feel as comfortable as a home until something happens and you end up in divorce. Don't mistake comfort for salvation. You salvation is with God. Your church is just a social club.

Tim

Outpost75
10-03-2020, 12:16 PM
Hmmm...

268753

fast ronnie
10-03-2020, 12:27 PM
Four guys shipwrecked on an island. The Catholic started a chapel. The Jew built a synagogue. The two Baptists started the first and second Baptist churches.

1hole
10-03-2020, 02:18 PM
It is an unending search for a better church. No church has it right ....

And you "know" that how?


Your church is just a social club.

No, my church is not a social club; we are a heart/spirit joined family of brothers and sisters in Christ. Sorry about your's.

.429&H110
10-03-2020, 03:07 PM
Just got back from our first Men's Breakfast since March. Had a fine chow line, 47 men counting the boys. Fixed the prayer list, checked off prayers answered. Of 300 people, we lost one beautiful lady at 103, and none from wuflu. (so far,so good). Pastor did a fine devotional about how we are to lead, make good choices, and build. Seven points of Scripture, took 20 minutes.
We were all very glad to be back. Then we washed tables, counters, windows, pulled cobwebs and weeds. We dared to reopen in August with HEPA filters in the A/C. You are safer in that church than at your doctors office.

1hole
10-03-2020, 03:24 PM
1hole, I hear you! You make good points and I thank you.

Thank you for the kind words.


I was a little ticked off about Baptists not recognizing each other... Alcohol is a curse or a blessing. Your choice.

True. It's what we make of alcohol that matters to God. Misuse of anything is a mistake. I know some fat people who sin every time they pick up a spoon but you don't hear about that from a pulpit.

We can make most anything a curse in our own hearts but I find no prohibition about alcohol in scripture so touching it is only a sin in our own minds. We do err when we try to make others bend to our wills. I don't drink. I don't like the hard stuff (and I think beer should be poured back in the horses they get it from) but I don't sneer at those who disagree with me.


When an alcoholic needs help where is he gonna go?

The "sin" of alcohol isn't the sin; the sin is it's abuse. We should deal with it same as any other abuse (including over eating). A (wise) Godly minister or another (wise) Christian friend is probably the best first step in dealing with it, same as anything else that causes us to stumble in our daily walk.

(A side note: I LOVE H-110 in my 6 inch .429" but it is high pressure stuff so it is LOUD when used correctly!)

.429&H110
10-03-2020, 03:40 PM
My favorites...there're thousands.

Man was sitting on his porch.
Sheriff pulls up.
"Levy broke, it's time to go!"
"The Lord will answer me".
Water in the street. Firetruck.
"C'mon get in, it's time to go!"
"The Lord will answer me".
Water to the porch. Boat.
"C'mon get in, it's time to go!"
"The Lord will answer me".
So the guy is sitting on his roof.
Helicopter: last chance.
"C'mon get in, it's time to go!"
"The Lord will answer me".
So the house washes away.
He meets the Lord says,
"Lord, why didn't you answer me?"
"You stubborn man. I sent you
a Sheriff
a firetruck
a boat
a helicopter
you chose poorly".

Too preachy...
How about...

A Pastor storms into a bar, yells
"If you want to go to Heaven
wait for me outside!"
Everybody leaves but for one guy.
"Don't you want to go to Heaven
when you die?"
"Oh, when I die. I thought
you were leaving right now".

Ummm

Pastor played hooky
on Sunday
went golfing instead.
Tees up slices,
God lifted a finger,
ball drops in
hole in one.
St Peter says "What...?"
Lord smiled.
"Who's he going to tell?"

If you have ever heard a Muslim joke
I would like to hear it.

.429&H110
10-03-2020, 04:07 PM
(If there was a quiet SRH
it wouldn't be fun.)

1hole
10-03-2020, 09:23 PM
Doesn't seem to be much humor to be found in or about Muslims. We can laff, even at ourselves. Muslims are so thin skinned if anyone laffs at them they want to kill. Literally.

.429&H110
10-04-2020, 01:29 AM
I will find out

.429&H110
10-04-2020, 05:28 PM
Ok only one more, I promise
and I will go back to writing
Devotionals for people
who want to read them.

What is a church?
A place where I worship God.
What is a social club? I dunno, that's vague. My coach used to scream at us in practice, "This isn't a social club!" OK, Basketball is not a social club, we are focused only on the ball, has rituals, must be a religion.

Confused, I Goggled it. Wow! What is the difference between a church and a social club. Wow! That AI even picked the right ads.
Whatta interbabble world!
So just a start:
In a social club you buy your own wine, and they don't cut you off at one sip.
In a social club you have to become before you belong.
A social club is entertainment.
A social club sits around while others do the work.
A social club is exclusive.
A social club does not wash tables.

A social club is your kingdom, a church is The Kingdom.
A social club lasts an hour, church lasts forever.
A social club is for members, a church is for the world.
Church is the hope of the world.
A monastery would make a poor social club.
From the inside:
A social club looks like a church
A church does not look like a social club.
From the outside, hard to tell.
Jesus did not die for a social club.



“Too frequently when Christians get together they seek for points upon which they differ, and then go at it …The Christian denominations too often present a spectacle of a political party split into factions and unable to make an effective fight.”

– D. L. Moody (1837-1899) quoted in The Life of D.L. Moody

nunc demittis

3leggedturtle
10-04-2020, 05:44 PM
All my dealing with Baptist' I've learned one thing. Since I wasn't saved in a baptist church, I really haven't been saved..

JimB..
10-04-2020, 10:35 PM
All my dealing with Baptist' I've learned one thing. Since I wasn't saved in a baptist church, I really haven't been saved..

That hasn’t been my experience. I was raised Roman Catholic and am currently a member of a souther baptist church. Going in to become a member they asked if I was saved, I said that I was, they asked how, I explained, they said great lets get you dunked so you can be a member.

The dunk is symbolic. You can be saved with or without it.

At least that’s my view.

1hole
10-05-2020, 11:31 AM
That hasn’t been my experience. I was raised Roman Catholic and am currently a member of a souther baptist church. Going in to become a member they asked if I was saved, I said that I was, they asked how, I explained, they said great lets get you dunked so you can be a member.

The dunk is symbolic. You can be saved with or without it.

At least that’s my view.

You are correct.

"Baptize" is an untranslated and greatly misunderstood Greek word meaning nothing more complicated than "wash clean."

Jewish synagogues used to have stone bathtubs where incoming dirty people could clean (baptise) themselves from the filth of the world before entering into worship, it's meaning was known as something completely normal to early Christians, not at all the mystic meaning the church of Rome later made of it.

There is Biblical justification for spiritual washing (baptism) by immersion, pouring and sprinkling but water baptism doesn't save anyone. Whatever form is used, water baptism is always symbolic and, of itself, conveys noting. Christianity is not something magic or mystical with special results coming from specific acts. Thus, there is no Biblical justification to believing ceremonial (water) baptism in any form, or at any time, or by any special person has anything to do with the dipee's salvation. Salvation and the new birth is spiritual and rises ONLY from the spiritual cleansing (baptism) of the Holy Spirit. Ergo, the thief on the cross beside Jesus was spiritually baptised and that was all he needed to be!

In Baptist doctrine, ceremonial dunking down and raising back up symbolises a personal death and burial to the temporal world and resurrection into a new spiritual life in Christ. Therefore, Baptists hold that water baptism should properly be taken by cognizant believers, NOT infants or pretenders.

None of this means water baptism's ceremonial function is unimportant. Whatever else it may mean to the world, it's highest meaning is our expressing to others what Jesus' life, death and resurrection means to each of us and that public testimony really matters!

Thundarstick
10-06-2020, 05:24 AM
I've never understood why any one claiming Christianity would NOT want to be water baptized in some form, if the opportunity where present.

.429&H110
10-15-2020, 09:58 PM
I evangelize and then apologize,
so you have my apology.

Set out lamp in hand to find
where are the 210 Baptists
posited in posts #4,5,6, 18?
Wikipedia, of course, lists them
but only 208. They missed
New Independent Fundamentalist
and Episcopal Baptist,
to make 210.
Why 210? Good question.
I'll get back to y'all
someday on that.

A new guy in Heaven was getting the tour. At one point St Peter hushes and tiptoes past a mansion. "Why so quiet?" St.Peter replies, "That's the Baptists, they think they are alone here".

For some, there's only
one way to find out...
Ya gotta go look.
YMMV

1hole
10-16-2020, 04:37 PM
I just did a quick look for "Baptists" in Wikipedia and find they say the number is 31 subdivisions. That's a more reasonable number but I still doubt it's really that high; I'd guess maybe 20 is more or less correct. ???

Secular people striving to make Christians look stupid massively exaggerate our divisions by adding everything they can find with that name. Including independent churches which are not by any reasonable judgement a "denomination" and then print their total as an authoritative number. That's how lying sneaks come up with vastly exaggerated Baptist - and all others as well - numbers.

Lloyd Smale said he'd once read that there are some 200,000+ "Protestant" denominations, worldwide. That was some really bad data because the researchers he quoted had determined that all stand alone independent local churches around the world, even home churches, were "denominations" AND if they were not some form of Catholic they were, by that fact, Protestant denominations. That kind of nonsense is worse than a simple error, it's twice over done intellectual fraud!

Truth is, putting a denomination's name on a door does not make it anything. I mean, putting a Chevy Bel-Air name plate and Corvette brake lights on a 4WD Ford Bronco does not make it a Chevy sedan! If a religious people are not operating according to the core doctrines of the named group then they ain't what they claim to be and they lie by claiming to be what they ain't and liars don't make good congregations! (Groups such as "Christian Science", which is neither Christian or science comes to mind.)

kaiser
10-16-2020, 07:18 PM
As a college youngster, I sold Bibles for a publishing company for a summer in a foreign (to me) land. Being a person considered some to be a Protestant, I encountered churches I had never heard of in my limited local travels. I was taught to appeal to the different groups by the company by "cherry picking" certain verses that were emphasized as "doctrinal truths". I was quite successful in my approach to avoid getting into lengthy discussions other's theological opinions, but found the most hypocritical patrons to be the most self righteous members of any church body who refused to recognize other Christians who were practicing their faith.

Members who professed Christ, but were dishonest with their dealing with others; justifying their actions as separation of "money and church", rather than "church and state". Or failing to recognize the "plight" of a fellow Christian in time of need or crisis because of affiliation. One of the worst in recent times have been "professed" Christians who support abortion, government sanction persecutions of Christian churches (China, Nigeria, Turkey, etc.), and Christian censorship because of church affiliation.

I too have heard the charge of "thousands" of Protestant churches, while claiming there is on "universal church" under the banner of the Catholic (Roman) church, of which I believe not to be accurate. While the Catholic church does not go off and rename every church building something different, while the organization does designate the Pope as "the head Bishop" (or "Elder"), I have personal knowledge of many Catholic churches of the "Eastern" persuasion that do not recognize the Pope as the "Vicar of Christ" on earth. And a few Roman churches whose practices mirror a different foreign culture. Matter of fact, in 1089 AD what is referred to as the "Great Schism" was a far greater split than any Martin Luther committed (IMO) where Catholics of the East (Constantinople) branded the Pope as the "anti Christ" because he declared himself dominion over all that called themselves Catholic; thus the Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc. split and have different beliefs and practices than is practiced by the Roman church. The Anglican church (Church of England) was another domination that broke away from the Roman church due to Henry VIII's feud with the church. The so called "Protestants" were so named (initially anyway) because they protested the Roman church of Byzantine empire and Church of England that in each case had complete rule over the citizenry (a complete theocracy).

Now before I get a bunch of hate mail from my Catholic "Christian" friends, I too was raised in a Christian home that established my opinions and bias in the direction of Protestant practices. While I do not agree with "Apostolic Succession" from Peter, and many Catholic practices, I truly admire practicing Catholics who keep every edict and scriptural teachings of the "Holy Bible". Even if I was never taught or believed edicts were equal to scripture, their adherence and disciple is admirable. Likewise, I also have met and associated with other Christians who actively practice their faith who believe in concepts somewhat foreign to my "leanings"; however, I would not judge them on their sincerity or freedom to do so. We probably have as many bad characters in church as out of church, the big difference is that those in church recognize a power higher than themselves that need saving beyond this world and seek God through Christ. Those outside the church love to compare themselves to those who are attending services, rather than to Jesus who is the example we are suppose to follow if we profess to be Christians. The fact Jesus is the only living human that was perfect is a "humbling" role model to follow. Accepting his "grace" by his sacrifice on the "cross" can even be harder, since we cannot repay God by anything we can do on this earth during our life time. Thus, living by faith in him trumps church affiliation, traditional practices, and opinions of what constitutes "correct" Biblical interpretation. The forces against Christians are united; Christians all over the world are not. We better start recognizing who the enemy really is and get with the "program". My .05

Chemoman
10-19-2020, 11:33 PM
i quit the baptist church many years ago when i went to a wed. evening prayer group and their was no prayer. all they did was argue about harvesting a crop on sunday or not harvesting on sunday. they really went at it. i found it a do/s and dont/s church and every one was watching every one else. i enjoy a daily glass of table wine and they really did not like that. they told me i had to stop that. their has to be good baptist churches but i gave up on them from that one experience.

1hole
10-20-2020, 11:00 AM
The CHURCH is the "called out people" of God and that's all believers. The CHURCH is not the building, that's just congregational (i.e., church) meeting house.

The called out people of God are people, we are flawed. We come in all sizes and colors; we vary in intellectual and emotional maturity and how we deal with our religious faith AND other people. Like individuals, no church (people) is or can be perfect so some groups (churches) lean and focus one way, others lean/focus another. Perhaps our most important goal in church is to love God and love our brothers and sisters, warts and all, in faith. Or find another church family group where we may fit in better.

As soon as I get perfect I may become more demanding of others. But, until I do, I'm hoping my church family/congregation will continue to be patient and love me in spite of my failings. Families do that, you know?

Old School Big Bore
10-20-2020, 12:54 PM
The two main factions of Baptists here are the SBC and the BGCT. There is a sprinkling of Independent Baptist Churches which may or may not belong to one convention or the other, or neither. My 'church home' was pastored by a Th.D. with an extensive education in Greek, Latin and Aramaic. We did lots of 'rabbit chasing' in study groups. While I was there we left the Southern Baptist Convention and joined the Baptist General Convention of TX, due to certain actions of the SBC. As Baptist congregations go, ours was pretty liberal (ordaining women, etc). That pastor has retired and the church is going to close, as he was the driving force for the life of the church. I had not attended there for some time due to moving to a location about sixty miles away. I have been visiting other BCs and a few non-denominationals but have not yet 'moved my letter'. The one question I ask a pastor or deacon (they descend on visitors like used car salesmen) is: 'Southern or General?' and if they start stuttering, I leave.
My older sister and I grew up 'unchurched' due to my Catholic Dad and my Unwashed Heathen Mom getting married outside 'The Church' back in forty-something. We were exposed to most of the denominations, by visiting with friends and family and going to services with them, and by getting farmed out to one brand of VBS or another. The 'marryins & buryins' on my Dad's side were Catholic, so we learned a little Latin and when to sit down, kneel, and stand, and to go up with arms crossed for a blessing at Communion time. My best childhood friend accidentally ate a can of Vienna sausages one Friday evening while visiting us and when he realized it the next day, kept looking over his shoulder for some Saint to materialize and smite him. Yes, he went to confession at the next opportunity. My Mom's siblings married into Judaism, Catholicism, Jehovah's Witnesses and IDK what else. My favorite aunt on my Dad's side married a Noo Yawk Jew, who was non-observant. My high-school girlfriends were Baptist, Methodist, Jewish and Unwashed Heathen. I married one of the Heathens who, once we started having kids, visited a nearby Baptist church and we both eventually joined there. That church fell apart due to a predatory pastor who would find a new church and bleed it dry, then move on. We visited around and found the Church Home I mentioned earlier. I was introduced to the Emmaus Community and began playing in, and later leading, the music teams for adult male, teen male, Catholic adult male and homeless male weekends. I was the Music Guy on the board of the teen organization and did some special music for some of the adult womens' weekends. I never did one of the prison weekends because I didn't want to run into anyone I'd put there. These weekends are highly ecumenical, even the Catholic one (I have gotten over my initial resentment at being excluded from Communion), and I have never had any conflicts with any mackerel snappers, tub thumpers, bible wavers or any others. If you want to hear denomination jokes, that's the place.
My sister did the opposite of our Dad and went through Catechism to marry a Catholic. Then my eldest son married a Catholic girl whose Mom takes every opportunity to call any Protestant denomination 'Pretend Church'. I haven't the heart to discuss the selling of indulgences, etc with her because I love my daughter-in-law. They just started attending a Church of Christ denomination, go figure. My cousin married a Methodist, who used to tell me the joke about how deep do you have to get immersed, and they found when they moved out of state that their pastor was closer to Baptist than Methodist.
When my Dad was hospitalized, terminal with cancer, in one branch of our local Catholic-run hospitals, one of the chaplains was a Kenyan priest with a jarringly absurd Irish accent (he learned English, sort of, from the Irish priests at seminary) who gave him a scapular during a visit, and subsequently became great friends with the chaplain and reconciled with his abandoned Catholicism, giving a confession before moving to a nursing home on hospice.
So my experience vis-a-vis gettin' churched up has been fascinatingly varied.