40S&W... The love... The hate...

[bakerjw]

The LOVE...
For my primary carry handgun, I have a Bersa Thunder 40 chambered in 40 S&W. It has every feature that I like as I am old school and like things like an exposed hammer, decocker, double action trigger, etc... I run my own reloads through it and it shoots great with them.

The HATE...
I am a brass scrounge. When at any range, other than rim fire, I will snag up any brass that I can find. The oddball stuff that I don't shoot is stashed into a bin and I send it to people that can use it. Sent off some beautiful 270 Win to someone a while back. So, at the end of a day at the range, I take all of the brass that I have collected and throw it in the tumbler and let it shake for a handful of hours. Those darn 40S&W empties are voracious eaters. Some will invariably gobble up 9mm or 380ACP empties and then slink away and crawl into 45ACP empties.

It is a slow Friday and I am bored. I had to come up with something.

[skrapyard628]

When I first started reloading I would only separate bottleneck and straightwall cartridges before tossing them in the tumbler.

The result was just what youre dealing with. A bunch of jammed up 9/40/45 with a sneaky 380 in there somewhere. I definitely felt like an idiot picking all of them apart and seeing that some cases were still dirty because of being stuck inside of another. Then having to run those still dirty ones through the tumbler again.

Now I just do take the time to sit and sort all of the brass by cartridge/caliber before tumbling. And sometimes I still feel like an idiot when Im running the tumbler for only 40-50 pieces of brass at a time and I need to run 10-15 batches, one for each cartridge.

Meh...good? bad? I dont know. The brass all eventually comes out clean and there is a smile on my face when it gets loaded again and goes into an ammo box.

[Omega]

Had the same issue some months back, even after swearing I sorted the cases before wet tumbling. Had some that sounded like rattles, had pins stuck between the cases,

[popper]

And you have to watch for lr22 in the cases. I separate pistol and rifle cases before tumbling, BO fit in the 40sw also. Sort when you deprime!

[adcoch1]

I have found that 40 likes to get inside a 458 SOCOM case and might never come out! I love the cartridge, but it is just the right size to cause some problems... Haven't started casting for 40 yet, but I just got a mold so......

[kayala]

Couple times all it took me to learn to separate brass prior to tumbling :)

[jdfoxinc]

Get some mesh dirty bags to tumble separate calibers at the same time.

[lightman]

Using mesh bags is a good ideal. I just take the time to sort everything and I save them up until I have enough to load the tumbler. I will tumble mixed calibers if they won't nest together. Things like 380, 9mm, 38/357, 38 Super will play well together. So will a lot of others. It is frustrating when you dump the tumbler and find a stray has found its way in.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have some friends that loathe the 40, I hear their reasons (they prefer the 45), but I disagree with them.
Most of all, I like the availability of cheap and free 40 brass.
...and I get the case nesting of range brass like everyone else, but I can't let it bother me, free brass is free brass BABY !

[Fishman]

They have a brass separator to deal with that problem but it makes things too easy.

[Txcowboy52]

I'm with you baker! I have had the same luck.

[contender1]

Brass sorter.
I use it to sort brass before tumbling.

[farmbif]

its just part of the fun of reloading.
I use a wire mesh basket with about 1/4 holes in the mesh its about 12"x18 x 3 1/2" tall and shake out the media vigorously over a plastic tote. works pretty well to separate nested shells but there are always a few that need to be knocked apart separately and some bottle neck rifle shells need dumping out

[GhostHawk]

My solution to that is to

A presort.
B Citric Acid Wash
C don't bother to tumble.

Not that I load a lot of .40sw anymore. I only have one and my son in law has it for home defense.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Good read on the 40 S&W : )

http://vintagepistols.com/40isbad.html

[Brick85]

Good to know I'm not the only one who thinks .40 S&W is "obsolete" or a "dying caliber". Nice to say that modern 9mm commercial JHP is as good as a .40, but try buying those now! Meanwhile I can castnpwrfectly nice .402 HP.

I just picked up this, have not had a chance to try it yet, but I figure it will save me a lot of time. I was sorting it by hand at the range to try and keep some of the lead dust there, and it was much too tedious!

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-cleaning/case-tumblers-accessories/3-pack-prod71439.aspx

[David2011]

The only reason I tumble multiple types of pistol cartridges together is because one slipped in accidentally.

There’s nothing wrong with the .40 S&W cartridge any more than there is with the S&W .38, .41 Special or any of a number of cartridges not at the top of the popularity list. It’s the ideal cartridge for USPSA and IPSC Limited competition. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds of it so it’s also one of two of my cartridges of choice for carry. The other is another wimpy cartridge that doesn’t get disrespected as much as the .40, the .38 Special. To me, nothing is as easy to carry as a S&W Airweight.

[bakerjw]

Glad everyone had some fun with a tongue in cheek thread. It was great reading the comments.
I do love my 40 and have thousands of bullets and once fired brass sitting aside. I also love my 45ACPs and I even reload 9s regularly.
And not to forget my lowly 380ACPs too. My Taurus TCP sits in my jersey pocket every time that I get on my road bicycle to put in some miles.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well its 380 in amidst the 9mm that causes a few whoops on the square deal b and the 9 goes into 40 which goes into 45 , best was a 9mm got into 45acp went through the decapping where it stuck on decapper was next couple of cases taking more then usual leverage to notice it , I like 40 easier loading then 9mm and bullets more to my fingers liking then the 9mm just seems to load with less issues and smoother motions of the press .

[Walks]

I think Lyman still sells "brass baggies", which are small plastic net baggies closed with a twist tie. Fill a with a box of 9mm and dump in a tumbler full of .45ACP.

[Brick85]

Well its 380 in amidst the 9mm that causes a few whoops on the square deal b and the 9 goes into 40 which goes into 45 , best was a 9mm got into 45acp went through the decapping where it stuck on decapper was next couple of cases taking more then usual leverage to notice it , I like 40 easier loading then 9mm and bullets more to my fingers liking then the 9mm just seems to load with less issues and smoother motions of the press .

You know it's funny, my pet peeve loading 9mm as I have been doing lately is that it doesn't sit high enough in the loading trays to grab with my fingers. I use a single stage so I am grabbing each casing multiple times. Only really becomes insurmountable when I am charging the cases and then want to seat a head onto them. Don't have this problem with .40!

[Brick85]

I think Lyman still sells "brass baggies", which are small plastic net baggies closed with a twist tie. Fill a with a box of 9mm and dump in a tumbler full of .45ACP.

How about the bags onions come in?

[dverna]

I am encouraged that 9mm is replacing the .40 for LEO's. Means there will be more trade-in guns and the .40 is at least "adequate" when compared to the 9mm....LOL

Like Jon said, cheap or free brass is a bonus.

I try to pre-sort brass before cleaning. A few get by.

[bakerjw]

My dentist, who also holds a type 7 FFL, hates 380. I mentioned that I was looking for some once fired brass and he gave me a bucket. He shoots a lot of FA and the occasional 380 getting mixed in throws his 1050 into a tizzy.

[MT Gianni]

I love the 40. I bought two medium flat rate boxes on two occasions that were full of brass run through a glock-buster die. Neither were more than $35 shipped. With two guns to shoot it through it works.
Onion sacks are your friend when it comes to tumblers.

[frkelly74]

I have to confess that I have not a single 40 S&W brass case on the property right now. I did use some a while back to make bullets for a 41 mag but casting is so much easier, and powder coat makes it unnecessary to use a jacketed bullet, My opinion. I had some but traded them off because I was afraid i would have to get a gun to use them in. As far as free brass goes, there is no caliber easier to get free brass in than 9mm, from my personal experience. If I stumbled into a 40 S&W that someone was eager to get rid of for a give away price that would be hard to resist, but then I would have to start all over with brass and molds and dies and data and I already have guns that I do not have time to shoot. Oh no! i just remembered that I have almost a rack of 50 assorted ,loaded ,found rounds in a box someplace.

[FLINTNFIRE]

You know it's funny, my pet peeve loading 9mm as I have been doing lately is that it doesn't sit high enough in the loading trays to grab with my fingers. I use a single stage so I am grabbing each casing multiple times. Only really becomes insurmountable when I am charging the cases and then want to seat a head onto them. Don't have this problem with .40!

Make your own trays out of wood , I bought a forstner drill bits in several sizes and with a drill press set depth mark where you want holes and drill , space as far apart as you like with more of the brass above good luck , I made them for doing large runs of 223 and 300 aac blackout .

[BigAlofPa.]

I did not know bersa made other caliber guns. I like my 380 a lot. So thanks for the posting about the 40 Baker. I was on their site looking at the offerings. Nice selection. I like the 40 too and the 40 magnum(10MM). 40 mag is a term i use to help folks who ask me about the 10mm round. I do the same for 38 super. 9mm mag lol.

[rockshooter]

A trick I learned from a posting here- to sort out .380 from 9mm after tumbling: get one of the plastic trays that .40 is packed in, and dump the 9mm/.380 into the tray- I use a handful at a time. The 9mm stand proud, the .380 are obviously shorter. The tray just makes them stand up and easy to see. Thanks to the original poster!
Loren

[Brick85]

Make your own trays out of wood , I bought a forstner drill bits in several sizes and with a drill press set depth mark where you want holes and drill , space as far apart as you like with more of the brass above good luck , I made them for doing large runs of 223 and 300 aac blackout .

I may wind up doing just that, although I have an RCBS tray I may be able to use which is a little shorter. Or I may be able to run one of the trays packaged ammo comes in (I have a garbage bag full of ones people threw out) through the table saw to shorten it.


A trick I learned from a posting here- to sort out .380 from 9mm after tumbling: get one of the plastic trays that .40 is packed in, and dump the 9mm/.380 into the tray- I use a handful at a time. The 9mm stand proud, the .380 are obviously shorter. The tray just makes them stand up and easy to see. Thanks to the original poster!
Loren

I like those plastic ammo trays for that. Brass drops in head down, and then I put another tray on top and invert it to sort out the less useable cases like the Federal NT and the military crimped primers. Also makes it easy to see those .380 as you mentioned.

[Lloyd Smale]

40s are my favorite self defense guns. Probably more today then ever because of the idiots who think the 9s are magically better because theres super bullets made for them. There to stupid to realize the same bullets are made in 40 cal. For the most part there bashed by people that think a 40 actually kicks hard. Hate to see them shoot a 357 snubby or God forbid some holy terror like a 44 mag:kidding:

[bakerjw]

I did not know bersa made other caliber guns. I like my 380 a lot. So thanks for the posting about the 40 Baker. I was on their site looking at the offerings. Nice selection. I like the 40 too and the 40 magnum(10MM). 40 mag is a term i use to help folks who ask me about the 10mm round. I do the same for 38 super. 9mm mag lol.

My son picked up a Thunder 9 from our dentist. At the same time, I had him bring in a Thunder 9 ultra compact.
I like Bersa. I was having trouble finding magazines so I contacted them. They sold and shipped a pair to me at a decent price.

[jonp]

45-70 is obsolete and dying. So is 45-60 and many others. When has that stopped reloaders on this forum from using it? I have an MP 40 cal and love the gun. Shoots great, likes cast and is a winner in my book

[lightman]

A trick I learned from a posting here- to sort out .380 from 9mm after tumbling: get one of the plastic trays that .40 is packed in, and dump the 9mm/.380 into the tray- I use a handful at a time. The 9mm stand proud, the .380 are obviously shorter. The tray just makes them stand up and easy to see. Thanks to the original poster!
Loren

I do the same thing except that I use a loading tray. I'll also tumble 38's and 357's in with the 9's and 380's if I don't have a full load.

[brewer12345]

Just curious: aside from cheap trade in guns, what is the appeal of 40? I don't really have a dog in the fight as I mostly shoot 38 and 45, but understand the appeal of the obscure as a Makarov enthusiast. I even own a mold and cast the occasional run of 40 boolits for a buddy, but don't own a gun in that chambering.

[Lloyd Smale]

it falls in the middle of the 9 vs 45 comparison. It has a bigger bullet and is more powerful then a 9 but has more recoil. Its got a smaller bullet and is less powerful then a 45 but holds more rounds in a mag in a comparable gun. To me its a great compromise between the three. I will always own 9s because there's nothing as cheap to shoot but if faced with a threat would hope that day i left then 9 at home and carried a 40 or 45. I will always own 45s. Why? because were cast bullet shooters and the first lesson in cast bullet handgun shooting is bigger is ALWAYS better. Loaded with jacketed hps the 40 kind of shines. Its got the velocity of the 9 with a bigger bullet. 45 to me with its lower velocity relays more on bullet diameter. So imo for what its worth the 40 and 45 are on pretty equal ground and the 9 lags behind a bit. All of them are fun to shoot though and i dont kill to many people each day so it doesnt much matter. comparing them is like comparing the 2506 270 and 06. Which one is best? probably the biggest. One might shoot a bit flatter. One is in the middle and one is the biggest. Faced with a big dangerous threat make mine the o6.

[Brick85]

With the 165gr bullet, the commercial carry ammo I chose when I bought my first pistol (Speer Gold Dot) has more muzzle energy than a typical .45 load. So as Lloyd said, you can get pretty much the same as a .45 but in a smaller package. I wanted a gun I can hit the mag release without partly turning the grip in my hand. Most guns out there are a little too big for my hands, and while I can shoot my double stack Glock just fine, I didn't want to sorry about dropping it in time of need. So the .40 fit my hand and my bill just right.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Just curious: aside from cheap trade in guns, what is the appeal of 40? I don't really have a dog in the fight as I mostly shoot 38 and 45, but understand the appeal of the obscure as a Makarov enthusiast. I even own a mold and cast the occasional run of 40 boolits for a buddy, but don't own a gun in that chambering.


it falls in the middle of the 9 vs 45 comparison. It has a bigger bullet and is more powerful then a 9 but has more recoil. Its got a smaller bullet and is less powerful then a 45 but holds more rounds in a mag in a comparable gun. To me its a great compromise between the three. I will always own 9s because there's nothing as cheap to shoot but if faced with a threat would hope that day i left then 9 at home and carried a 40 or 45. I will always own 45s. Why? because were cast bullet shooters and the first lesson in cast bullet handgun shooting is bigger is ALWAYS better. Loaded with jacketed hps the 40 kind of shines. Its got the velocity of the 9 with a bigger bullet. 45 to me with its lower velocity relays more on bullet diameter. So imo for what its worth the 40 and 45 are on pretty equal ground and the 9 lags behind a bit. All of them are fun to shoot though and i dont kill to many people each day so it doesnt much matter. comparing them is like comparing the 2506 270 and 06. Which one is best? probably the biggest. One might shoot a bit flatter. One is in the middle and one is the biggest. Faced with a big dangerous threat make mine the o6.

Brewer,
I agree with everything Lloyd stated. While I am able to find small amounts of 9, 40, and 45 pistol brass for free at my range
...and surprisingly because of the local police qual shoots, I get more 45 than the others. But when I want large quantities of brass and have to buy it, my sources sell 40 the cheapest, because there is less demand than there is for 9 or 45. Last time I bought a few MFRB full of 40s, the price was cheaper than scrap value...so it was a no lose purchase.

[brewer12345]

Interesting. I suppose if things ever normalize I will have to consider a 40 trade in.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I like the 40 I also like 45 but I used to be critical of the 40 and then I shot one and now I like the caliber and have bought more especially the police trade ins great bargains .

[fcvan]

"Great Taste/Less Filling" all over again. Carried a 1911 for years, heavy, 7 round mags, but I still love it. My first pistol was a S&W 459, cluncky and bulky. My brother wanted one so bought one, he later got a 659 because he was working Harbor Patrol and needed SS. When I got the 1911 the 459 collected dust. That and I alternated with a S&W M13 for EDC.

Never was too keen on the Glock in 40, that is until she brought one home she had scored cheaply. The only thing I didn't care fore was the G22C is ported, no bueno, for low light stuations.

A law enforcement supplier sold pistols at cost and so I started collecting more Glocks, generally for the wife and I with sequential serial numbers as she likes that. First a pair of G23s, later G42s and G43s. I also got 9mm drop in barrels and mags for the G22s and G23s as my wife picked up 15K pieces of 9mm over a few months. I had also picked up so much 357 SIG brass so I got a barrel for the G22, solving the ported barrel thing. My duty weapon got changed to the G22 so I just started carrying mine for the drive to work and swapped for my duty pistol at work.

The whole issue of 9mm, 40, and 45 isn't really too much of a concern as I like shooting them all, as well as reloading. I get a lot of trigger time shooting 9mm, swapping barrels and mags, and shooting some more. All the mags get go the range loaded and the brass policed and sorted. I really think that helps maintain muscle memory. The 1911 is more of a special occasion gun, usually preferring to take the M1A and the 1911 and just have an 'old school' day. Of course, all is cast. .308 is way more cost effective shooting cast.

As far as handgun ammo goes, the whole '9mm, then 40, then back to 9mm thing' with the FBI is well documented. I used to review after action reports, autopsy reports, and all of the comparisons. As a member here says in his signature block, "You can shoot fast, and shoot often, but only hits count." I would like to add, that most persons don't practice with their weapon(s) near enough, and that practice should include stress inoculation, but still doesn't match up to a real world SHTF gunfight.

Even training with sim rounds is not the same. Sure, it stings, but it won't kill you. We used to do full contact hand to hand on the rifle range, the run 50-100 yards to the pistol range. We would shoot a changing combat course with our carbines and pistols for time, and you never knew when a dummy round/training round was going to cause failure drills. Our SWAT Commander always said 'train how you fight/fight like you train,' and 'no plan of action survives first contact.'

Draw drills, mag changes, wearing civvies and coats, with a concealed holster system, is every bit as important as being able to get 'equal distance of bad guy on either side of the slab sided weapon, and press, press, press the trigger.' My EDC is generally a G22 or G23 in 40 as I probably have more rounds downrange with those guns and that caliber.

[Lloyd Smale]

Brewer,
I agree with everything Lloyd stated. While I am able to find small amounts of 9, 40, and 45 pistol brass for free at my range
...and surprisingly because of the local police qual shoots, I get more 45 than the others. But when I want large quantities of brass and have to buy it, my sources sell 40 the cheapest, because there is less demand than there is for 9 or 45. Last time I bought a few MFRB full of 40s, the price was cheaper than scrap value...so it was a no lose purchase.

Ive found just the opposite. 40 brass is getting harder and harder to come by. Less people shoot it so theres less to pick up and sell and just look on this sight. Most 40 brass is snatched up a 1/2 hour after its posted for sale and about allways is more expensive then 9s. Back when 45s were the norm 45 brass was cheap too. No more.

[bakerjw]

"You can shoot fast, and shoot often, but only hits count."

My wife's stepdad always carried a Springfield 45ACP and would give me grief about the Makarov 380ACP that I carried. We were in a gun shop one day and he again gave me some grief. I told him "I'll take 1 hit with a 22 over 10 misses with a 45." The guy behind the counter chuckled and said "He's got a point."
He also gave me grief for buying blued guns rather than stainless. I advised that in low light the stainless sticks out like a sore thumb. He replied "Never thought of that."

Although my main carry gun has been my Bersa 40, I've started to take the Baby Eagle in 45ACP every where that I go now.