Beer can gas checks

[Johansson81]

Since I have an endless supply of empty beer cans in my workshop I wanted to try and use them for my 300 Blackout loads, a Lee 155gn PCed bullet for plinkling up to 200meters.

I made myself a gas check punch tool for the single stage press which works just fine, but since the beer cans are quite thin walled the checks wont stick to the bullet base even after passing through the sizing die. Despite that I milled the gas check groove in the mold so that it matches the thickness of the GC.

Anyways, with a small bellmouth on the case made by modifying the powder drop die I can just put the GC on the bullet when placing it on the case mouth and seat the bullet so far that the case neck tension holds the GC in place.

So far it seems to work just fine, I havent pushed the velocities beyond 1700fps yet but they group just fine and no signs of leading.

Is there a downside to these thin walled gas checks? I assume they drop off as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel but why would that affect accuracy in any way?

A single copper gas check bought through Brownells in Sweden cost almost as much as the powder and primer together in the loaded round, so I am really saving money here.

[farmbif]

just a thought from left field, sometimes the tops of cans are a bit thicker than the rest of can, if you have endless supply might try material from can top.

[garandsrus]

You could try forming the gas check with two layers of beer can also.

[too many things]

they dont fly straight too drunk

[elmacgyver0]

If they work and you are happy with them, what is the downside?

[725]

This might require a serious investigation as to who makes the thickest beer can metal. Seems I remember the cans that look like bottles are thicker than the cans that look like cans. Happy searching.

[Hick]

You just invented another reason to drink beer-- whether it works or not you're a hero

[Johansson81]

Since I modified the mold I can´t use any thicker gas checks than this, I could from the start have ordered a sheet of suitable thickness but then the whole idea of being able to make the bullets all by myself would sort of fail.

I would really like to recover a bullet to see how the base looks, and if there are any cutting signs in the GC. Would shooting it into a 100 liter barrel of water work or would it just go through the bottom since it is a non-expanding design?

I´ll finish my morning coffee and go out to the shed and make some test loads to figure out how much powder is needed to reach 1800fps. That feels like a good compromise for this bullet. Good thing I have a Labradar at home and live next to a forrest, won´t have to go to the range to test them.

Cheers!
/Anders

[Winger Ed.]

The walls on soda pop cans are thicker than most beer cans.
Miller Lite 16 oz. cans that look like a bottle, are even thicker than soda pop cans.

[Johansson81]

The walls on soda pop cans are thicker than most beer cans.
Miller Lite 16 oz. cans that look like a bottle, are even thicker than soda pop cans.

I dont think I've ever seen one of those in store here in Sweden.

[Johansson81]

Here is a pic of the punch and a bunch of finished gas checks. No idea why the images end up sideways in the post.

268246

268247

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Johansson81,

I don't think it really matters if they fall off in flight, the purpose is for in the barrel.
I have heard of people placing a drop of super-glue on the bullet base before installing the check.

AntiqueSledMan.

[hockeynick39]

Those look absolutely fine. I use beer/soda can gas checks on all of my plain base boolits. This is also whether I powder coat them or lube them like usual. I have had no issues with any of the gas checks. Yes, most of them come off in flight and what was said in a previous post, it doesn't matter after leaving the barrel.
Pushing them to 1800 fps accurately shouldn't be an issue. Just bump the powder charge up by .1 grain per load and use a chronograph. Good luck and stay safe!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've used popcan metal to make plain base GCs. I've found the boolit alloy needs to be fairly soft, like about 10 bhn, so when sized, the GC will squeeze into the base band of the boolit, and they stay on quite well.
So, depending on what alloy you are using, you may considering making your mold to drop a plain base boolit.

[Johansson81]

Hello Johansson81,

I don't think it really matters if they fall off in flight, the purpose is for in the barrel.
I have heard of people placing a drop of super-glue on the bullet base before installing the check.

AntiqueSledMan.

Couldn´t it be so that a flimsy gas check like this one would negatively affect accuracy if it was glued to the base but starting to break away at the edges? Better if it drops off directly after the muzzle.


Those look absolutely fine. I use beer/soda can gas checks on all of my plain base boolits. This is also whether I powder coat them or lube them like usual. I have had no issues with any of the gas checks. Yes, most of them come off in flight and what was said in a previous post, it doesn't matter after leaving the barrel.
Pushing them to 1800 fps accurately shouldn't be an issue. Just bump the powder charge up by .1 grain per load and use a chronograph. Good luck and stay safe!

I made some test charges this morning and ended up at 18.0 grains of RS36, didn´t want to shoot too many rounds since I did the testing in my back yard and it might upset the neighbours. :)

The 18 grain loads read in just around 1800fps so I think I am good to go, the primers are starting to flatten out but the edges are still rounded so no over pressure. 2" groups at 20m shooting without support is ok for me, if I had a scope and a bench rest they would have been much better. At least I know that they group fine without keyholing and other issues.


I've used popcan metal to make plain base GCs. I've found the boolit alloy needs to be fairly soft, like about 10 bhn, so when sized, the GC will squeeze into the base band of the boolit, and they stay on quite well.
So, depending on what alloy you are using, you may considering making your mold to drop a plain base boolit.

When you run the bullets through the sizer, won´t the gas checks wrinkle at the base? That happened for me when I tried to crimp them in place during sizing.

If it was possible to size the bullets base first they the gas checks would stretch out better around the base of the bullet I think.

[farmbif]

I was sizing gas checked bullets yesterday and checks were falling off. I wipe the base of bullet in a bit of lube and then size and they all stuck real well.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...


When you run the bullets through the sizer, won´t the gas checks wrinkle at the base? That happened for me when I tried to crimp them in place during sizing.

If it was possible to size the bullets base first they the gas checks would stretch out better around the base of the bullet I think.
I do size them base first. No wrinkling on base.

[Johansson81]

I do size them base first. No wrinkling on base.

How do you keep the bullet tip from deforming?

[Winger Ed.]

I dont think I've ever seen one of those in store here in Sweden.

Hmm,, too bad.
I think the Foster's beer from Australia is also in a thick walled can.
You might find them there, and its good stuff too.

Something else that might do for ya is those throw away foil baking pans at the grocery store.
The ones we have here are pretty thick, more so than a drink can.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

How do you keep the bullet tip from deforming?

I use a Lyman lubesizer to seat/crimp the GC, with the correct Top Punch to fit the boolit nose.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hmm,, too bad.
I think the Foster's beer from Australia is also in a thick walled can.
You might find them there, and its good stuff too.

Something else that might do for ya is those throw away foil baking pans at the grocery store.
The ones we have here are pretty thick, more so than a drink can.

The Foster's beer I've bought in the last few years was brewed and canned in Texas :shock:
The can thickness was same as other American beer and soda pop cans...about .0045"

[Johansson81]

I use a Lyman lubesizer to seat/crimp the GC, with the correct Top Punch to fit the boolit nose.

Ah, nice. It is a bit of an inconvenience to fit the GC when seating the bullet but I can live with it since I dont shoot 1000++ rifle rounds every year.

[longbow]

I've been curious about using the thin PB gas checks as well but on PB boolits. Pat Marlin is/was making a PB check maker and Paco Kelly and Ed Wosika used to make a PB check maker using pop can material but on regular PB boolits. Not sure if Paco and Ed did rifle checks or only handgun/pistol calibers.

http://www.lasc.us/TaylorFreeChec.htm

I am lazy and cheap so don't like to use gas checks when I don't have to but for higher velocity loads in my .308 and .303's gas checks are necessary. I made a .30 cal. check maker from Ed Smith's plans and it works very well. I have been using 0.019" old gutter material which is thick and extrudes some making a deep check but that is for regular gas check shank.

I also have the Mihec 316410 HP in PB mould and want to try the thin checks on PB boolit. I am interested in your results for sure! I will have to make a PB check maker and give it a try now!

I know others have tried it but I have not found any threads with info on relatively high velocity loads using the thin checks in rifle.

Longbow

[Allamerican401]

Hello all!... This is my first post here. I've lurked and also had lurked on the falfiles for nearly 10 years before I joined to buy some cheap, rusty mags in 2013 or 2016? (Had a couple beers)... Anyway, what about using beer bottle caps for gas checks? They must be a pretty malleable steel alloy since they bend easier (over cracking) than some aluminum alloys.. Would it hurt the barrel over many rounds? I've been reading a lot and really trying to learn since I've been getting a LOT of free lead pipe from a friend that I do mechanic work for. I'm looking into options for casting alloys for fal & ishapore 2a1. I read up on possibly layering for aluminum checks and thought about the possibility of malleable beer caps as I opened a becks from an $11 12 pack, since the miller light went off sale..

[toot]

the best part of it is that you have to drink em to get em!

[Southpaw198486]

I'm interested in making a gas check maker myself for .22 cal. To start with, could you share your idea on how you made your check maker? No gas checks to be found right now and I have plenty of beer cans at my disposal lol.

[cast367]

[QUOTE=Johansson81;4990924]Since I have an endless supply of empty beer cans in my workshop I wanted to try and use them for my 300 Blackout loads, a Lee 155gn PCed bullet for plinkling up to 200meters.

I made myself a gas check punch tool for the single stage press which works just fine, but since the beer cans are quite thin walled the checks wont stick to the bullet base even after passing through the sizing die. Despite that I milled the gas check groove in the mold so that it matches the thickness of the GC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my opinion are beer cans not thick enough or you must use 2 or 3 disks. Many years I make GC from alu plates used by a printshop.They are 0.3mm.Its works fine .I have a Pat Marlins GC maker for my .30 rifles.
Alu cans from DEO , shaving foam are good useble aswell.

Cast 367

[longbow]

It doesn't help the OP since he has modified his mould already but I decided to make an "Ed Smith" style gas check maker for use in my .30 cal. rifles... mostly .303's. The gas check maker is easy to make and punch/bore size could be altered to use that thin beer can check material but I had a bunch of old aluminum gutter material at 0.019" thick so wanted to use that. Recommended check material is 0.014" thick but since I use a hammer to operate the check maker I can apply enough force to punch and "extrude" the thicker material resulting in a deeper cup and perfect gas check from free material.

No, not a beer can so I am not a hero in that regard but being able to use up scrap gutter is a good reason to drink beer anyway!

As an observation from someone who has not used beer or pop can checks, that aluminum is very springy (tempered) so may well spring back and drop off which if consistent isn't an issue but if some drop off and some don't and some almost drop off that could be an issue. If you anneal the checks in an oven they should become dead soft and then stay shaped to and stuck to the boolit.

Some posters advocate annealing all checks for that reason. I find that my gutter material is very soft to begin with so not enough spring to worry about and they do stay on... at least all recovered boolits to date have gas checks on them.

The Ed Smith plans are free to download as are plans for the "easy to build gas check maker"

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200965-Easy-to-build-gas-checkmaker

Longbow

[longbow]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?306809-Ed-Smith-Document-For-Making-Gas-Check-Makers

Path to the Ed Smith gas check maker. I didn't think it was still here though it is hosted on another download site. Anyway, there you go!

[Johansson81]

Long time since I checked this thread, sorry for late reply.

1900fps is how fast I am pushing my beer can gas checked 155gn bullets now, I won´t go any hotter since they group fine and I will only wear the cases out faster.

The check maker design is pretty similar to the Ed Smith design but upside down to it pushes the finished GC`s up instead of down. I haven´t got any pictures or drawings of it, I just winged the design.

The beer can checks are too thin to stick to the bullet bases, but as long as you don´t seat the bullet base below the case neck section the neck tension will hold the GC firmly in place. I hold the GC to the bullet base when I seat the bullet and with a generous flare on the case mouth it works perfectly.

I once shot through a 3mm steel plate at 30 meters and found a piece of the GC stuck in the hole in the plate so they seem to cling to the bullets even after leaving the barrel.

Cheers!
/Anders

[Gunslinger1911]

I think I read in your orig post you made a GC cut in your mould ?
That's what's getting you,
The thin cop/beer can checks are best on plain base bullets. I've never had one come off after sizing it on.
For your mould, maybe some slightly thicker material would hold on through the sizing step.