Remington Rollingblock

[mongo40]

I know nothing about these rifles but they interest me and I've been thinking of picking one up. If someone wants to school me on them that'd be great. I'd like to know when I'm looking at them what to look for so I don't end up with a piece of junk that I can't shoot. Seems like there is lots of different models of them and condition and price is all over the place. I've found one I'm going to look at this weekend. Its listed as Remington Model 1867 Rolling Block Navy Rifle, 50-40 cal. In the pictures it looks to me like its been refinished, almost looks like parkerizing to me. Since I'm looking for a shooter and not a collection piece, something to plink and play with I'm not worried about it being refinished just would prefer a more traditional finish. I know the subject and my question on these rifles is probably to broad for anyone to answer in any detail but what ever you feel like sharing with me, feel free. Thanks

[pworley1]

I have several, to me the best ones are the Argentina 1871 and the Danish 1867.

[1Hawkeye]

Looks like somebody wiped it down with navel jelly. The finish should be in the white or tin plated if its a u.s. marked navy model. It will be a great plinker but you will have to make the brass for it which is a simple process.

[mongo40]

Here's a shot of the Tang, wondering what a fair price would be for something like this.

[RustyReel]

I see a box of ammo in the first pic, I would try to include brass, dies and any ammo in the deal.

[mongo40]

All I've seen of the rifle is the pictures I'm sharing on here. I could care less if it was Navy or not, I'm just looking for a good shooter and I'm being told its probably assembled from parts which would be fine to as long as its mechanically sound, also it wouldn't bother me to maybe have it rebarreled down the road with something easier to find and shoot, if that's feasible. I wouldn't want to mess with something that was original and would harm its worth. Being Retired Army myself if its got navy anywhere on it makes it worth less in my book anyway!!! I was going to go Saturday and look at it, the current asking price on it is $700 and it says it has 38 rounds to go with it that are pictured.

[BP Dave]

At $700 it seems you would be paying something toward collector value, but the finish would put off many collectors. Assuming it is mechanically sound and has a nice bore it should be a nice plinker, but you need to be ready to reload. The hammer should cock crisply and it should have a half-cock notch that holds against trigger pull and definitely not a hair trigger. The breechblock and hammer should rotate smoothly and have no wobble or sloppiness. The forend should not have any movement fore-and-aft (naval terms for a naval carbine?). Check the buttstock for cracks, especially at the receiver. The tang stamping looks good, which makes one wonder why it was refinished--it would be worth looking under the forearm if you can to see if there is pitting--that doesn't necessarily affect shootability, but could further reduce resale value--maybe the seller knows why the refinish. Does the rear sight fit well--the photo looks like maybe not--that could also lessen value. Some rolling blocks give your finger a "trigger slap" when you drop the hammer, which I personally find annoying--I don't know exactly why, but it seems to come with guns that have been altered or parted up. If you can dry fire it, perhaps using one of the fired cases as a snap cap, you might check for that. Many/most military rolling blocks have witness marks between barrel and receiver--if this one does, see if they are aligned, because that could reveal if it has been rebarreled. Assuming it all checks out I would expect to pay something much closer to $500, with the ammo, dies, etc. maybe included or adding a little. But ultimately you should pay what you feel it is worth to you. Good luck.

[RustyReel]

If all you want is a shooter (and nothing wrong with that!) then check out and keep an eye on Simpsons LTD. They have a few rollers listed now (been picked over) and get them in often. Some nice ones at what I think are reasonable prices. Most are 8mm or 12.7's i.e. 50 cals. You have to reload for the rifle you are looking at would have to reload for the Swedish 50's as well. Antiques so they ship directly to you. The Swedish rifles are either Remington 1867's or based on that pattern. Just my opinion.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Rollers are a big subject, as Remington made so many of them in different configurations and calibers, and some were produced by other countries like Sweden. Their strength is their simplicity, and parts seldom break. Looking at your photos, I would be reluctant to pay $700 for it and as noted above by RustyReel, $500 would be more in line if everything is in good shape besides the refinish. Since you just want a shooter (good shooter) maybe the refinish is a plus. You'd definitely want a good bore, not always easy to find as many of these were black powder and neglected. If you have to rebarrel your cost goes way up. The legibility of the inscription on the tang is a good sign, as they weren't stamped very deeply and sometimes are worn smooth from handling. Mine is an 1871 Argentine carbine in .43 Spanish. There were many made in 7x57mm Mauser for S. Amercia, but many of them seem to have bad head space. Exactly why this is the case is open for speculation, but some say that the specs for the cartridge changed from when they were made. Just something to be aware of, and it doesn't apply to all of them.

[1Hawkeye]

Now that I'm home with a computer and not a phone I can see its a good chance its a parts gun. looking like it might have been built on a number 1 1/2 action rather than a number 1 action. The wood has been refinished on the forend the hammer,breech block,& trigger have been matte blued and the rest of the metal has either been wiped down with navel jelly brand rust remover or poorly reblued with cold blue If its cold blue it will have a strong smell to it if not cured properly. A real navy issue will have inspectors marks on the wood and metal including an anchor mark, a front sling swivel,the extractor will be at the 6 o'clock position in the breech and the last patent date should be 1865. The original finish on most military remington's was called armory bright which is no finish at all just a buffing of the metal and some navel models were tin plated to help resist salt air corrosion. I have a feeling if you look at the tip and bottom of the forend you might find a filled in groove were the ramrod channel was filled in when they cut down a rifle length stock to fit a carbine. I don't want to say fake but it is definitely misrepresented. If its done right it will be a fun shooter but I wouldn't put more than 450 in it.

[mongo40]

Thanks guys that's why I was asking as I have no ldeal what these things run price wise or really what to look for. I looked through Simsons LTD and there are so many and prices all over the place and all different calibers that I'm not familiar with so I guess I'll just hold off on getting one for now. Thanks again.
Chris

[webfoot10]

Look up Allan,s Armory, He has swedish rolling blocks for sale. With pictures of rifles.
Nothing over $500.00. Good to deal with.

[ndnchf]

Many of the military RB carbines are chambered for larger cartridges that can be brutal in a light carbine. The .50-45 is much more pleasant to shoot. I think you saw my video I posted on the other forum. You can see the recoil is pretty mild. That makes these little carbines a joy to shoot. .50-45 is easy to make by cutting down readily available .50-70 brass. Here is the cartridge.

[mongo40]

Thanks Webfoot10, those sporters are more inline with what I was wanting anyway. I like the looks of those. I'd really like a sporter styled one in 45-70 with a tapered octagon barrel but I guess that's something I'd have to have put together. Was watching a Youtube video of Hickock45 shooting one.

[marlinman93]

It's too messed with to sell for $700, even if it's got a great bore. I think the $500-$600 range is more appropriate.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

The earliest model I would buy is the 1897. I much prefer the smokeless powder models made after 1901. If you can find one that is marked UMC on the tang, it was made after 1910. All may look the same but big improvements were being made in steel at that time. I mostly shoot smokeless powder in mine and I just feel better with the extra protection from that explosion going off right next to my face.

[marlinman93]

The earliest model I would buy is the 1897. I much prefer the smokeless powder models made after 1901. If you can find one that is marked UMC on the tang, it was made after 1910. All may look the same but big improvements were being made in steel at that time. I mostly shoot smokeless powder in mine and I just feel better with the extra protection from that explosion going off right next to my face.

I've shot nothing but smokeless in mine for decades, and mine are all early black powder Rolling Blocks. If you keep in mind these early actions are limited to 28k load levels, you wont have any trouble. People having trouble are hotrodding these old guns, not people who take care loading for them.

[ndnchf]

I agree. I've been shooting #1, #2 and #4 rolling blocks for over 30 years. With sensible loads that do not exceed original black powder pressures and ballistics, they are fine. Certainly the late #5s have better steel for higher pressure smokeless cartridges. But the older ones are fine when loaded appropriately.

[mike britton]

#1 Egyptian action, was .43 Egyptian, now a .45/70 barrel. 13 pounds of fun.
I have shot everything in it from Pyrodex, to black powder, to some maybe too hot 3031 loads.
It hasn't whimpered yet.
I do check it a lot for cracks and stretching, but so far all is good. These old actions are pretty stout if you can get them tight enough to begin with. Having said that, my favorite was a Mexican smokeless action in 7X57. That was a sweet shooter!

[marlinman93]

When building up an old Rolling Block, the first thing that needs to be checked is the pins for hammer and breech block. Make sure they're a close fit, and replace if they aren't. Next thing is to check the breech block face to ensure it's square to the bore! I've seen more than one that was about .005" slanted, and if rebarreled and fired this way it will bend the rims every shot. Then the fire formed brass wont rechamber unless you turn it to the same index as it was when it got deformed.
I check them for square, and set them up in my mill to slightly correct the face with a thin cut. Most the time this cut takes about that .005" on the lower edge of the face, and nothing towards the top of the face. You'll have a better rifle, and a more accurate rifle also.
After that the rest of a Rolling Block build is very straight forward, like any old single shot rifle.

[David LaPell]

I've had a couple of Rolling Blocks, from an old military .43 Spanish to .22 LR #4's to a .32 rimfire in between. They're a lot of fun to shoot.

https://i.imgur.com/d7VRaLu.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/DBqqZgc.jpg?1

My son likes the #4 .22 LR.

https://i.imgur.com/Kz6h2nn.jpg

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very nice photos, David. Thanks for posting them. :D

[Chill Wills]

I especially like the picture of your son with the singleshot. That rifle and a boy that age are just right for each other. Two thumbs up.

[Thood]

Look up Allan,s Armory, He has swedish rolling blocks for sale. With pictures of rifles.
Nothing over $500.00. Good to deal with.

Hey just joined my father in law just gave me a Remington 7 mm Mauser andits a great shooter have y’all see one with tang sights on it

[Thood]

What do you know of the 7mm mausers

[marlinman93]

Hey just joined my father in law just gave me a Remington 7 mm Mauser andits a great shooter have y’all see one with tang sights on it

Not from the factory, but it could have holes drilled and tapped to add one. But need to have a good gunsmith do so as the case hardened receivers will break drills and taps pretty easily if the person adding the holes isn't familiar with what it takes!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

What do you know of the 7mm mausers

Welcome to the Forum, Thood! A good place to be!

I'm afraid I can't tell you too much about the 7x57mm Rolling Blocks, only what I've read and heard. That is, that many of them seemed to have bad head space. Some say that the specifications for the 7 mm Mauser cartridge that they were made for changed after their production. I remember back in the '60s they were being imported from S. America, Venezuela I think, and many were in new condition. For some time there were a lot of them around, and you'd see them at every gun show. Some, however, were reported as being just fine, so about all I can tell you is to look into it some before buying one.

[Thood]

I’ve shot mine bout 20 times so far and doing good still my father in law said it was good to shoot factory 7mm Mauser thru it he gave it to me and does a lot of gun work but not much now he is 89 now

[marlinman93]

If I wanted to shoot a Rolling Block chambered in 7x57 I'd only do so with ammo I reloaded, and not use factory. Not saying it will blow up, but considering these guns often had headspace issues, and they are well over 100 yrs. old, I'd prefer reloading lighter loads. Plus any headspace issue one might have will not be an issue if you reload, and don't full length size the cases after the first firing. Just neck size them, and then load them again. Likely even more accurate also, plus increased case life by not full length sizing them.

[dtknowles]

I think it would be wise to check the headspace on an old gun like that before using factory ammo. Could be as simple as seeing how many disks of paper you can stick on the base of a factory cartridge and still get the action to close. Then measure the stack.

Since I would be reloading I would not worry about head space and I would fireform all my brass to the chamber with cast bullets seated to jam into the rifling with a reduced charge of fast powder. Then as others have said. I would neck sizer or partial full size being carful about how much I might push back the shoulder.

I think rolling blocks are a very handy and functional action but they are not as strong as a modern bolt action or even a vintage bolt action.

Tim

[marlinman93]

I use Scotch tape to estimate headspace. Scotch tape is @.003" thick, so most single shots can have 1 or 2 layers and not be considered excess headspace. But if you put 3 layers on the base of a cartridge and it closes there's too much headspace.

[atr]

regarding the 7x57
I shoot mine with handloads both with Cast and J's. The J's I load to about 85% of maximum
the original loads were for a RN 175 Gr, so the free-bore is large on these rifles.
If a primer fails you can get gasses back through the firing pin hole in the rolling block. Safety/shooting glasses are a must.
I have not had issues with an off-square block face on the cartridge. You do have to check to make sure debris has not clogged the rolling block and prevented it from closing square on the cartridge.
I neck size to extend the life of the brass.
The only part that has ever broken was the main spring which was easy to replace.
I did have to spend a lot of time working on getting the barrel clean.

[marlinman93]

I've had more than a couple out of square breech blocks on old Rolling Block actions I bought to build up guns on. It's something every person who builds them needs to check. And any gunsmith you use to barrel a Rolling Block action should be a gunsmith who is aware of this and know how to check and adjust it before fitting a barrel to your action. It's an easy fix for a gunsmith, but I've seen more than one who barreled an action and didn't check the block to barrel angles, and ended up with a mess for the owner or gunsmith to fix later.

[rfd]

i have one, given to me by a friend, a remington 1-1/2 roller that probably started out as a "cadet rifle" that was maybe a .32 or .38, then it got reamed out to .45-70, hammer was replaced, and someone "sporterized" the stock. i need to get off my duff and ship it off to lee shaver for a proper check out, maybe reline or rebarrel, and to lighten the hefty 9# trigger pull. of course, as is it's black powder loads only.

https://i.imgur.com/d4tLHxS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xopytii.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/44msRqH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ry1B05S.jpg

[David LaPell]

My local gun shop has a really clean example of a 1902 Rolling block in 7 x 57mm Mauser. To me that would be a nice gun to start with, ammo (under normal circumstances) is easy to find and pleasant to shoot.

[marlinman93]

Since all #1 1/2 were Sporting Rifles, I don't think anyone sporterized the stocks on your gun. My guess is it might be the stocks are from another #1 rifle, and someone fitted them to your gun.
Your "1 1/2" is quite strange looking, as it has the hole in the trigger guard for a sling swivel, and the hammer and breech block spurs are not like any #1 1/2 I've ever seen? It has many features of a #1 rifle, other than the flat side frame. The "checkering" on the hammer spur appears to be recut, and not factory? I wonder if these two pieces were also fitted to this action when it was converted from .38 RF to the CF cartridge?