Weight Sorting?

[ohiochuck]

Casting .25 caliber boolits using NOE 89 g plain base mold.
What range is recommended for weight sorting 1 g? more/less?
Thanks!
Jim

[white eagle]

that depends on how fussy you are in your handloads
I am not fussy at all and typically don't weigh my boolits
I have in the past and I don't recall it making much of a difference
your mileage may vary however and if you feel it's worth the effort give it a try

[dragon813gt]

Pistol or rifle? Target or general plinking? Use case matters quite a bit. In general the lighter the bullet the less weight variance to strive for. 1 grain difference for an 89 grain bullet is a higher percentage than a 500 grain bullet.

Personally I weight sort for hunting bullets. Everything else as long as the base is good and there are no major deformities they’re considered good to load.

[ohiochuck]

Rifle 25-20 target and hunting

[dragon813gt]

I don’t own a 25 caliber but I will assume it’s close to 22 caliber which means a pain. The less weight variation the better. 1 grain is 1.1% difference. So you’d be sorting to +-0.5 grains from a median. If you have a digital scale you can weigh them quickly to find out what weight you cast the most of and sort from there.

[charlie b]

The smaller you want your groups the better you sort :)

When I am 'really serious' about groups (<MOA and longer range) I will sort to 0.1gn of the heaviest bullets of the batch and only pick bullets that look perfect.

Most of the time 0.5gn is good enough and (very) slight surface defects are ok. (slightly over MOA, 100-200yd).

[beagle]

A waste of time from my experiences weighing a lot of approximately 2,000 .22 cast bullets one winter. Not worth it. Think I picked up 1/8" off my "match", selected bullets weight in .1 grain increments.
You'll do better with careful sorting and ruthless culling for any flaws.
Internal voids, unfortunately, are inherent in 95% of the bullets we cast so there goes the weight theory.
Just my opinion and from my experience./beagle

[charlie b]

What level accuracy and range are you shooting at?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Like MBTcustom (Tim) posted about some time ago, It's good practice for someone new to casting Rifle boolits to weight sort a few batches, and even make a graph representation (whether on paper or just using the boolits on the bench). Once you see what variance you get, you may be able to surmise what went wrong during casting. Usually it's the lack of uniform rhythm of casting cadence. That's the main thing I learned from that practice. So, when I am casting Rifle boolits, I now will dump the drops in different piles, until I get to that uniform rhythm and get the boolit uniformity of "look" that I desire, and I remelt everything I dropped prior to that point...but everything afterward will still get a thorough visual sort.
Thats my 2¢

[ohiochuck]

50 -60 yds wanting 1" or less
Hunting fox & grey squirrels

[Larry Gibson]

50 -60 yds wanting 1" or less
Hunting fox & grey squirrels

Given that criteria then I also suggest just scrupulously inspect and reject any with any visual imperfection. I do weight sort my 30/31 cal cast bullets for match and HV shooting. However, in my 25-20 Savage M23 I just sort as suggested and easily get 1" and less at 50 yards and 1.5" usually at 100 yards.

[mdi]

I have weighed some of my cast bullets, but not for "accuracy" measures. I was looking for consistencies, how casting temps, mold temps, and a bit of alloy differences affected weight. Found some variations, but nothing "earth shattering" and the info has helped my boolits...

[charlie b]

Yep, at that range I'd just do visual and not even be too picky about that. Biggest thing is nice square base.

[jonp]

Smaller the case the less a variance I ask for except if they are plinking then as long as they fit is fine with me. For hunting squirrels which is not a big target and considering the size I'd go for 2gr or so I think. More important would be the powder weight and it's variance.
Anyone care to comment on powder vs boolit weight variance?

[charlie b]

Again, it depends on range and accuracy level.

2MOA or less you can throw charges that are quite different. Did a ladder test one time that was a full grain difference in 5 loads. All 25 rounds would fit in a 2" square at 100yd (same aimpoint). At 300yd those groups would be vertical string.

[ktw]

I’ve only been weighing boolits for smaller caliber rifle cartridges (6mm-30cal) that I plan to shoot past 100 yards regularly. In this case, I think it’s important to weigh the brass as well. Seem to get significantly more consistent results because of it.

I don’t weigh to a specific range. I weigh an entire batch to 1/10 of a grain for sorting purposes (because that’s easy to do on a digital scale) drop the outliers on either end of the spectrum For re-melting (~5% if I had a good casting run), then divide and bag the remainder into 2 or 3 sub-batches by weight, depending on the size of the casting run.

-ktw

[porthos]

i think that if you can sort bullets by hole grains; you have poor casting practice. i ladle pour and my bullets are +- .02 (2 tenths of a grain). i don't do anything special; just a good rythm. several casts to reheat the mold after fluxing or adding alloy.

[ktw]

i think that if you can sort bullets by hole grains; you have poor casting practice. i ladle pour and my bullets are +- .02 (2 tenths of a grain). i don't do anything special; just a good rythm. several casts to reheat the mold after fluxing or adding alloy.

Sometimes the variation is a function of using a multi-cavity mold. I agree that ladle casting from a single cavity mold is the way to go for larger caliber rifle cartridges.

-ktw

[mattw]

Interesting question... for my bench guns with small case capacity I sort by .1 grains. If the casting is done well, you will likely end up with 3 or 4 populated groups right in the middle of the curve. The rest are foulers or go back into the pot. For general shooting and larger case not bench shot, I do not weight them. But, I do inspect the bases, driving bands and general bullet. If the driving bands and base are not sharp and crisp they go back into the pot.

[Land Owner]

Once you see what variance you get, you may be able to surmise what went wrong during casting. Usually it's the lack of uniform rhythm of casting cadence.

Now THAT takes dedication and attention to detail; after-the-fact weight check compared to the instant it was cast, or I am being thick headed and implying what you did not write?

I have been casting 223 Bator boolits for quite some time, weighing each (~50 grains) and sorting (49.1 through 51.0 grains with a "bell" shaped distribution), for the day my motivation returns to a semblance of normal and I load and shoot for groups. I will also weigh and sort cases in inverse proportion to boolits - heavy with light and vice versa). I want to test if my "attack on the variables" proves it is worthwhile (or fruitless) to weigh and sort. YMMV.

What do I have but TIME (lies, **** lies, and statistics)? I see this as mathematically FUN in a hobby that is inherently in all things and at all times - FUN. I will become QUITE FAMILIAR with my products (the boolits and rounds), my methodologies, my rifles, my madness, and my increasing confidence in the process.

What could be better than that? It's MOTIVATING for me. If that keeps my oars in the water, it is well worth the time, until is isn't.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Now THAT takes dedication and attention to detail; after-the-fact weight check compared to the instant it was cast, or I am being thick headed and implying what you did not write?

>>>SNIP
I guess I didn't get into the thick of it. This was my personal experience. I took the boolits from a casting session. I weigh sorted and put them on a graph, like I mentioned. I seen the uniform finish on the ones in the middle of the bell curve...making them the group with the least weight variance and the largest quantity of the batch...the ones I would choose to load.

what do I mean by uniform finish? Let me tell you.
>>>Have you noticed when you start a casting session, some boolits may be all shiney, and then as the mold warms up some, the boolits will be half-shiney and half dull grey, and the mold warms a bit more and the boolits become all dull grey, and the mold warms a bit more and the boolits become frosty, and the mold warms a bit more and the boolits become very frosty almost galvanized looking. That is a function of casting rhythm. Once you get into a casting groove, and it seems everything is going great and you feel you found what the mold likes, you will likely be casting at a consistence casting rhythm and all the boolits will have the same look...a uniform finish, boolit to boolit.

[Conditor22]

↑↑↑↑ JonB nailed it again ↑↑↑↑

preheat the mold == less variance in color and weight
watch the color of the sprue == less variance in color and weight

**IF you wait the right amount of time before opening a mold (varies by mold and alloy) and open the mold quickly the boolits will usually just fall out without tapping**

A PID is helpful for maintaining desired heat. To keep that alloy at a uniform temperature don't return sprues to the pot when casting. I'll run it down 1/2 way, put my mold back onthe hotplate then throw the sprues back and some more lead to fill the pot, when the pot returns to temperature I'll flux with a little wax. -- for maintaining boolit uniformity

[Land Owner]

Several things in my RCBS Pro Melt and 49-49-2 Pb-WW-Sn alloy casting 223 Bator aluminum mold are:

Starting, the alloy is hot, molten, ~720* F by temp setting on the pot. The mold and spru plate in particular, heated by hot plate, may not be quite hot enough. Alloy pressure (bottom pour) is high (pot full). Wrinkles occur. Put cut off spru and wrinkled boolits back into pot (my choice).

Intermediate, the alloy, mold, and spru plate are in sync. No dramatic color change in boolits (start to intermediate). No frosting. Maybe a wrinkle here or there (cooling spru plate) if I don't pour a sufficient spru (rounded base). Alloy pressure in pot is moderate (upper 3/4 pot). Cut off spru reintroduced to pot periodically with pot and mold cooling and thereafter, for a short period, wrinkles and insufficient fill out (my own fault). Mold comes back into sync quickly.

Finish, no dramatic color change (start to finish), alloy and mold temp down and up when adding cut off spru to pot (my choice), pressure is low(er) as pot reaches 1/2 full, lose heat and stop rhythm when adding another 3 sticks of alloy (12#'s) to pot. Start again...

Start again, mold, still hot plate hot, has "seasoned" during this casting session and comes to "perfect pour" much faster - till I get tired.

NOTE: If I REALLY preheat the mold and spru plate on the hot plate (30 minutes prior) and dip them into the alloy prior to the first pour, the cast takes MUCH longer to cool, fill out is complete, wrinkles are absent, boolits are almost frosted, and I have to cool the mold a little to get it settled down, but the mold tends to stay hot. My rhythm in this instance is probably too fast.

[Hanzy4200]

Unless you are shooting some serious bench rest, or you just have a lot of time on your hands, I wouldn't even go down that road. In my experience the variance is so small it's effect would be completely unnoticeable in 98% of shooting situations.