Primer choice for M1 Garand?

[hc18flyer]

I have been unable to find CCI #34 primers, so I will have to work with what I have. I have current Win and CCI large rifle, and some older CCI Bench Rest and Federal Match primers, which should I use for a few hunting loads?
Thanks, hc18flyer

[Winger Ed.]

Either one would be fine.
I never had any problems with Win LR in mine, and always have a bunch on hand from repeat buys.

[Hick]

I only use Win LR in my Garand-- but that's just because they are what I could buy. They work fine. Haven't tried the others.

[Outpost75]

+1 on Winchester WLR in the Garand and M1A.

[GooseGestapo]

Any EXCEPT the Federal!
Both me and my older brother experienced slam fires , 3 decades apart. In both instances , Federal primers were part of the accident chain.
Also, never drop the bolt on a partially chambered round. Always use a clip, either a single shot adapter or two shot adapter .
If you must chamber a single round manually , do so by slowly closing the bolt, and bump the bolt closed by pushing the bolt closed with the heel of your hand.
We both got lucky, the actions weren’t destroyed by the out of battery firing . My stock was shattered. Locking lug recess was chipped.
I only use the CCI large rifle or #34 primers.

[fast ronnie]

NO Federals!!!!!

[Pirate69]

Have not had any problems with Wolf.

[charlie b]

Before I knew any better I used a bunch of Federal primers and never had an issue. Due to shortages I have recently used a bunch more without any issue. I do load from a SLED or std clip and never let the bold slam on a cartridge in the chamber.

[dale2242]

I have used CCI standard LRPs for years with no issues.

[RU shooter]

Same here standard CCI and winchesters never had an issue

[cosmoline one]

+1 on not using federal, and charlie b, I shot hundreds successfully before I experienced my slam fire

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I use CCI large rifle primers. No problems.

DG

[Stewbaby]

Another vote for CCI 200

[charlie b]

+1 on not using federal, and charlie b, I shot hundreds successfully before I experienced my slam fire

I am over 1000 so far.

[Larry Gibson]

I mostly used WLRs in thousands of 7.62 and 30-06 match loads for M1A/M14s and M1s. Also used a lot of CCI and federals. "No federals"?????? What do you thing is the primer in Federal match 308W ammo? They work fine. Any problems from slam fires is one of "reloader error" (not seating the primer completely), too light a trigger job or a defective weapon. Most often the first two.......

[hc18flyer]

Thanks everyone! I loaded some starting loads last night using Winchester LRP's , 46 and 46.5 grains of IMR 4895, under Hornady 150 grain soft points, in 78 Greek surplus brass. The primers sit down below the case. We will chrono them and see where we are at? hc18flyer

[dogmower]

just worked up a good cast boolit load for mine. 200 grain noe sized .311 (VERY pointy bullet) over 35 grains of imr4895. cycles the action reliably and no problems hitting a 7x10 steel plate at 200 meters. happy days!
one nice thing about the garand is the feed angle - the rounds feed into the chamber in nearly a straight line, which puts very little stress on the boolit as it enters. not a big deal with jacketed ammo, but a factor with cast. I have a DSA FAL that feeds at such a steep angle, it will sometimes deform the tips of cast rounds (no problem with jacketed).
and to think John Garand gave this design to the US government in appreciation for being allowed to be a US citizen. the rioters (sorry "protestors") could learn from him.

[TNsailorman]

I have to agree with Larry. I have been using Federal primers in my Garand for years with no problems. I started using the Federals because they were much easier to find in my area than Winchester or CCI. My opinion on this is that if you have a slam fire in a Garand, you either have high seated primer or the rifle is worn and needs fixing. The Garand was designed to not slam fire and if all the components of the action are in spec and if proper ammo is used, it will not. I am old enough to have carried one when I first enlisted and I have never seen a Garand slam fire. my experience anyway, james

[Nick Adams]

I use CCI large rifle primers. No problems.

Agree.

If I can't source the CCI's Mil-7.62 #34s, their Large Rifle primers also work fine.

That said, several local reloading/primer experts at my range have advised that CCI LR Magnum primers are essentially the same as their #34s.

[samari46]

May be a little OT so if the mods wish to move it ok. Anyone ever notice that different brands of primers are more popular in different parts of the country. Here in Louisiana Winchester's are more popular than others. While I haven't been to gunshows in quite awhile Remington's were more popular in NY and Winchesters a second place. I do use CCI 250 mag primers in my '06 jacketed rifle loads, and just use regular Winchesters for my Garand. Some may question my use of the mag primers in the '06 but am using IMR 4350. In fact my use of IMR 4350 and mag primers in at least 4 Winchester match rifles, one standard M70 and a Sako 75 Hunter has proven to me that it helps accuracy a lot. 168 gr SMK's and 165 Nosler ballistic tips. Frank

[LinotypeIngot]

I can't really imagine any particular large rifle primer being unsuitable for this purpose. Besides, it's not like you have much of a choice these days!

[smkummer]

270042
Any EXCEPT the Federal!
Both me and my older brother experienced slam fires , 3 decades apart. In both instances , Federal primers were part of the accident chain.
Also, never drop the bolt on a partially chambered round. Always use a clip, either a single shot adapter or two shot adapter .
If you must chamber a single round manually , do so by slowly closing the bolt, and bump the bolt closed by pushing the bolt closed with the heel of your hand.
We both got lucky, the actions weren’t destroyed by the out of battery firing . My stock was shattered. Locking lug recess was chipped.
I only use the CCI large rifle or #34 primers.

I’ll keep this in mind for CMP shooting. Prone is single fire. Using WLR primers I never had any issues. Took second in state this year with a 275 4X.

[Kfisch]

It's better if you stick with one brand of primer but any LR primer will do. I use Win and CCI but have used a lot of Federal and Rem. For those of you that say Federals are to sensitive please check on the DCM website. Creedmoor Sports loads all 30/06 and 7.62x51 ammo for the DCM and they state in their descriptions that a Federal 210M primer is used for all loadings. If you've ever experienced a slam fire either the primer was sitting proud in the case or your rifle is out of spec and needs repair.

[TNsailorman]

I have heard this tale of the Federal primers being too sensitive for years and have found no credible evidence to back it up. I don't think Creedmoor or CMP would go out on a limb if there was any credible evidence to point to the Federal primers. I have been using Federal primers for years in my Garands and have never had a slam fire. I was told by a M1 Garand expert(specializing in building M1 Match rifles as well as regular use Garands) the same thing that Kfisch stated, if you had a slam fire you had a high primer or the rifle is out of specification. John Garand designed a great rifle but like all machinery, it can be compromised by worn or broken parts. I have used Federal, Winchester, CCI and Remington primers over the years and never had problems with any of them concerning slam fires or failure to fire. I seat my primers fully and flat against the bottom of the primer pocket. Do that and you should have no problems. But I would advise you to use the primer you feel comfortable with. After all, you are not going to do your best shooting if you are not at ease in your mind with your rifle and its ammo.

[GregLaROCHE]

I used CCI primers when I was shooting my M1 a lot, because that’s just what I had around at the time. I don’t see why the Winchester brand shouldn’t work well. I use a lot of them these days in other guns without any problems.

[garandsrus]

[QUOTE=Larry Gibson;No federals"?????? What do you thing is the primer in Federal match 308W.[/QUOTE]

Well, they don’t use Federal bullets or Federal powder in that load so do you know that the primers are Federal?

In SP primers, Federal ARE more sensitive than any others I have tried. My PPC revolver only goes bang when I use Federal primers. I don’t have any idea if the LR are more or less sensitive than other brands.

[Alferd Packer]

While on active duty training with an M14, I was shooting blanks during a training exercise and I had a blank blow the bolt out of the receiver and strike me in right eye.
My eyeglass lense was punched out of the frame and the lense didn't break but my eye muscle was slammed back so hard I couldn't open my eye.
I thought the eye was gone and my fa e was blackened and full of tiny brass flecks.
The unbroken lense was practically embedded in the eye socket of my skull.
The Eye people popped the lense out and I couldn't open my eye.
They pried my eyelid open and stuck me in the eye with a long needled hypodermic.
ssaid it was
a muscle relaxant.
They bandaged up my eye and gave me little tubes of brown grease to pry open my eye and use 3x a day. Fit for duty, back to the field.
I stumbled around going along up and down dale. finally the eye stayed open.
Grubby fingered guys helped me put the grease in 3x daily and the bandage fell off the first day.
Army said only load cartridges from magazines

For single load, never let the bolt slam on the cartridge.
Lower slowly, then seat round with bolt down and gently hit slide release with heel of hand.
I can still see ok out of that eye.
The m16 rifle would all leave a tiny dent in a chambered round and sometimes they would fire if you held it by the carrying handle and pointed it straight up when clambering a round.
I have also noticed that faint dent on 9mm and 40 caliber pistol shells.
An Army MP told me that at the end of a duty shift, when unloading their weapons, they all threw the round they had chambered with the dented primers into a waste can in the armory.
Only done at certain duty stations.
I know state cops from MO. who reload practice ammo and will only use the CCI #34 hard primer to load their .40 caliber with.
What are the chances of......?
You do a thing often enough and I think your chances can improve.
That 's my story, another one.
RA all the way.
Hardball does it all.
Cast lead like fresh baked bread.
Infantry is the Queen of Battle.
Old soldiers never die.They just fade away.
Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition.

[rondog]

Glad I had the foresight (and extra money!) to buy 5K of the CCI #34's several years ago. I've got more M2 ball loaded up and stashed than I'd want to move, and still have several thousand primers.

[Larry Gibson]

[QUOTE=garandsrus;5227431]Well, they don’t use Federal bullets or Federal powder in that load so do you know that the primers are Federal?

Federal doesn't make powder, Federal doesn't make Sierra 168/175 MKs but Federal does make primers. They would use their own primer because if they used others they would pay mark up and shipping. Using their own increases profit and profit is always bottom line. Additionally they probably think their primers are the best so would use them especially to make their lawyers happy considering product liability.

What makes you think they wouldn't use their own primers?

[LeonardC]

To avoid confusion: The DCM hasn't been around for years; it's now the CMP.

I mostly use CCI LR primers in M1 and M14 style rifles. I some times use WLR when I don't have CCIs.

[Patrick L]

I tend to agree with Larry too.

Over the years, I have literally fired 10s of thousands of CCI standard LR primers through my M1s, because "that was what I used." Zero problems. I had actually never heard of the CCI 34 primer when I started reloading back in the 80s. Even when I learned of them I never saw the need to switch.

Recently I did read an Ed Harris piece (and I really do like and respect his stuff) and he recommended Winchester as an alternative to the CCI 34s. So, since I could get them I switched. Still zero problems.

[starnbar]

Hey it is like this if you have not had a problem why make one up? I shot high power for years with a garand and a m1a never had a problem. Used all kinds of lrm primers

[JoeJames]

I read Brian Pearce's article in Handloader Magazine on handloading for the M1. I have not loaded 30-06 in a spell, but been thinking about loading some. His statements about primers and slam fires got my attention. Two factors at play, 1. the condition of the M1, and 2 the primers and the depth they are seated. So I have decided to size and trim some commercial brass and seat the primers by feel to where I know they have bottomed out. Then I intend to load a few in a clip and see if the primers are at all dimpled when cycled through the action. If they are not at all dimpled by my particular M1 then I figure they will be ok. Probably be using either Win Large Rifle Primers, or CCI Large Rifle Primers.

[LeonardC]

JoeJames: I think you will find dimples on those primers. I think the free moving nature of the firing pin will leave a mark, but not set off the primer.

[georgerkahn]

I mostly used WLRs in thousands of 7.62 and 30-06 match loads for M1A/M14s and M1s. Also used a lot of CCI and federals. "No federals"?????? What do you thing is the primer in Federal match 308W ammo? They work fine. Any problems from slam fires is one of "reloader error" (not seating the primer completely), too light a trigger job or a defective weapon. Most often the first two.......

I agree 101% with Mr. Gibson re his suggested causes of slam fire. A really close friend had one which pretty much destroyed his Garand and the "post mortum" cause was clearly believed the rifle's throat was so neglected the cases were not being fully seated -- e.g., same as a raised primer, but the entire case! Since that incident, I actually took the chamber cleaning brush which had been stored in butt, and use it. My first attempt was a real muscle-challenge for me, my M1's throat was indeed so crudded up. I do suggest the acquisition and use of a chamber brush!287804
Again, I strongly agree with Mr. Gibson's suggestions, with the friendly addition to brush that throat!

[GooseGestapo]

When Federal loads milspec ammo, it uses a milspec primer not sold commercially. Only recently did CCI start selling #34 and #41 primers. I wonder why???

I too shot several thousand rounds loaded with Federal #210 before I experienced my slam fire.
IF I had been loaded with CCI I have no doubt I would NOT have experienced a slam fire.

Your rifle, your hands and eyes!
Choose wisely. I got lucky! That time...

[dale2242]

One thing to keep in mind to prevent slam fires is to ALWAYS feed your ammo from an enbloc clip.
Don`t place a round in the chamber and let the bolt slam shut on it.
Feeding from the clip slows the speed of the bolt when it closes.

[Jack Stanley]

I've used Winchester primer by default I suppose ... years before I bought a Garand or an M1A I was buying Winchester primers by the case for bolt rifles . When the semi-auto rifles came along they naturally were fed Winchester primers . Some years later someone said I should be using CCI #34 because if I didn't , my gun would blow up ........ I've heard that line before I'm sure .

Well I tried the CCI and they didn't work any better or worse than the Winchester . Never tried the Federal or the Remington but I tend to agree if you seat the primer below flush and feed from a SLED , en-bloc or magazine , chance of the rifle starting a rapid disassembly is low .

Jack

[dogrunner]

While on active duty training with an M14, I was shooting blanks during a training exercise and I had a blank blow the bolt out of the receiver and strike me in right eye.
My eyeglass lense was punched out of the frame and the lense didn't break but my eye muscle was slammed back so hard I couldn't open my eye.
I thought the eye was gone and my fa e was blackened and full of tiny brass flecks.
The unbroken lense was practically embedded in the eye socket of my skull.
The Eye people popped the lense out and I couldn't open my eye.
They pried my eyelid open and stuck me in the eye with a long needled hypodermic.
ssaid it was
a muscle relaxant.
They bandaged up my eye and gave me little tubes of brown grease to pry open my eye and use 3x a day. Fit for duty, back to the field.
I stumbled around going along up and down dale. finally the eye stayed open.
Grubby fingered guys helped me put the grease in 3x daily and the bandage fell off the first day.
Army said only load cartridges from magazines

For single load, never let the bolt slam on the cartridge.
Lower slowly, then seat round with bolt down and gently hit slide release with heel of hand.
I can still see ok out of that eye.
The m16 rifle would all leave a tiny dent in a chambered round and sometimes they would fire if you held it by the carrying handle and pointed it straight up when clambering a round.
I have also noticed that faint dent on 9mm and 40 caliber pistol shells.
An Army MP told me that at the end of a duty shift, when unloading their weapons, they all threw the round they had chambered with the dented primers into a waste can in the armory.
Only done at certain duty stations.
I know state cops from MO. who reload practice ammo and will only use the CCI #34 hard primer to load their .40 caliber with.
What are the chances of......?
You do a thing often enough and I think your chances can improve.
That 's my story, another one.
RA all the way.
Hardball does it all.
Cast lead like fresh baked bread.
Infantry is the Queen of Battle.
Old soldiers never die.They just fade away.
Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition.



The ONLY thing surprises me about your experience is that you failed to mention if or not they gave you that famous APC tablet...................the ONLY thing.

To this very day I utterly refuse to accept any medical benefit from my time in service, I would not urinate in the VA's eye if they were dying of thirst......!

[JoeJames]

JoeJames: I think you will find dimples on those primers. I think the free moving nature of the firing pin will leave a mark, but not set off the primer.

Ok, I sized, deprimed, champhered 16 fired commercial bras, and primed 4 with Winchester Large Rifle primers. Managed to get 8 in the clip w/out bullets, with the first two being primed. Pushed them home being wary of the famous M1 thumb. First two fed, after that the next hung up (will need to be resized again to take the dent out of the mouth of the brass btw). Anyhow the primed cases both showed very very small indents in the primers; as you expected, more of a slight mark than a full indentation. I used my ancient Lee Auto prime and seated the primers as deep as was possible. BTW being real OCD, I cleaned the primer pockets with a primer tool. Normally I do not do that, but in this case since I was dealing with the M1 and potential slam fire, I wanted them flat out deeply seated with no debris in there to cause them to be a bit high. I think they will be ok.

[LeonardC]

I'm glad to hear your experiment went well!

[PDshooter]

I use any L/R primer for M1.

[Rick459]

Small rifle primer pockets .118 To .122
Large rifle primer pockets .128 To.132
Small pistol primer pockets .118 To .122
Large pistol primer pockets .118 To.122 these are the primer pocket depth. minumum to maximum

i have been using federal match large rifle primers since i built my match M1 in 1995 and have never had a issue. but then i uniform all my primer pockets so that all primers sit below the case head. i still have 10,000 #34 primers that i bought back in 99 for $70.00 per 5,000 from powder valley..those were the good old days and i didn't even know it. when one reloads ammo for any of your rifles one should match prep ones cases to gain the maximum performance out of that fire arm. even if it is a stock rifle. HTH.
Rick

[M1slamfire]

Hey guys a lot of good advice given on this topic. I do recommend CCI # 34 primers for military free floating firing pins weapons. I too have reloaded lots of standard CCI L.R primers for M-1 without issues.
* But When I first started reloading standard LR CCI for my M-1 Garand I made a few Rookie mistakes and gotta way with it for while. Then one day it caught up to me, with 3 shots slow fired off the bench and checked target with spotting scope and was ready to send #4 round down range... I pulled the trigger and the bang sounded different and looked over @ my shooting buddy and there was a string of 5 cases in the air and hitting the bench. What made me look up was the sound of all 5 shots so close together that I didn't recognize it was all of them,,, but I did recognize the tattle tell "PING", that's what got my attention and then saw the string of empties. After much investigation on my part and a gunsmith buddy comparing 3 other M-1's parts and pieces i figured out that my rifle was fine and nothing that caused it to go full auto.
But what I did have was high primers from not cleaning the primer pockets. Rookie move on my part but thankfully no one got hurt and the rifle wasn't damaged! I too realized after that happened that I needed to be more diligent on my part and that after cycling lots of re loads &
commercial and factory lake city 1942 surplus through it,, that the free floating firing pins will dimple all rounds that goes into the chamber when the bolt flies home & slams the next round in chamber. The Next part of my Rookie reloading blunder was after my case gauge finally arrived,,
I was just slightly long in my case measurements because I hadn't reset the shoulder back quite enough thus my case neck was making the cartridge slightly out of spec and helped create the slam fire event. Boy did I learn alot about M1Garands and case prep. I learned that just cause the bolt will close doesn't mean that it correct. Buy the tools you need for the job, and get all the good advice from knowledge people and be safe and enjoy.

[georgerkahn]

Hey guys a lot of good advice given on this topic. I do recommend CCI # 34 primers for military free floating firing pins weapons. I too have reloaded lots of standard CCI L.R primers for M-1 without issues.
* But When I first started reloading standard LR CCI for my M-1 Garand I made a few Rookie mistakes and gotta way with it for while. Then one day it caught up to me, with 3 shots slow fired off the bench and checked target with spotting scope and was ready to send #4 round down range... I pulled the trigger and the bang sounded different and looked over @ my shooting buddy and there was a string of 5 cases in the air and hitting the bench. What made me look up was the sound of all 5 shots so close together that I didn't recognize it was all of them,,, but I did recognize the tattle tell "PING", that's what got my attention and then saw the string of empties. After much investigation on my part and a gunsmith buddy comparing 3 other M-1's parts and pieces i figured out that my rifle was fine and nothing that caused it to go full auto.
But what I did have was high primers from not cleaning the primer pockets. Rookie move on my part but thankfully no one got hurt and the rifle wasn't damaged! I too realized after that happened that I needed to be more diligent on my part and that after cycling lots of re loads &
commercial and factory lake city 1942 surplus through it,, that the free floating firing pins will dimple all rounds that goes into the chamber when the bolt flies home & slams the next round in chamber. The Next part of my Rookie reloading blunder was after my case gauge finally arrived,,
I was just slightly long in my case measurements because I hadn't reset the shoulder back quite enough thus my case neck was making the cartridge slightly out of spec and helped create the slam fire event. Boy did I learn alot about M1Garands and case prep. I learned that just cause the bolt will close doesn't mean that it correct. Buy the tools you need for the job, and get all the good advice from knowledge people and be safe and enjoy.

I do not believe I could have "said it better"!!! However, I will ADD on very important, quite regularly overlooked by fellow M1 shooters I have known (including ME!) -- which is to clean, and keep clean, the rifle's chamber. A close friend had his U S WWII vintage military Garand blow apart, with the dirty chamber deemed (by a good gunsmith!) as its cause.
Yes... in the cleaning kit tucked in many Garand butt-stocks as a brass brush... but I reckoned it more of an accessory than a very much needed tool! Just using a .30 cal brush, or even as I do -- pull a brush (Otis-style) through -- does NOT clean or remove crud from the chamber. Nothing does it other than the tapered brush! And, if not done, the cartridge cannot be seated sufficiently, producing similar effect as the high primer noted in prior post.
Several vendors purvey chamber brushes, and I cannot recommend strongly enough using one!290019

[M1slamfire]

I do not believe I could have "said it better"!!! However, I will ADD on very important, quite regularly overlooked by fellow M1 shooters I have known (including ME!) -- which is to clean, and keep clean, the rifle's chamber. A close friend had his U S WWII vintage military Garand blow apart, with the dirty chamber deemed (by a good gunsmith!) as its cause.
Yes... in the cleaning kit tucked in many Garand butt-stocks as a brass brush... but I reckoned it more of an accessory than a very much needed tool! Just using a .30 cal brush, or even as I do -- pull a brush (Otis-style) through -- does NOT clean or remove crud from the chamber. Nothing does it other than the tapered brush! And, if not done, the cartridge cannot be seated sufficiently, producing similar effect as the high primer noted in prior post.
Several vendors purvey chamber brushes, and I cannot recommend strongly enough using one!290019

����:-)

[OBXPilgrim]

I'm another that has always used WLR in M1 Garands. No problems.

[fatelk]

No, no, no, you've got to use the real thing in M1 loads:
291263

I picked up a pile of these at a show a couple years ago, for $1 per box. I've been using them in my Garand loads and they work well. :)

Of course we can't all rely on 40 year old surplus stocks for our primer needs. :) Typically I would use CCI or Winchester primers in my M1s, never had a problem.


Funny thing, I posted a photo of those primers when I found them a while back, and a couple people replied that I should be careful with them, because they might be corrosive. I guess that's proof that most of us aren't terribly good with attention to details.

[Rickf1985]

No, no, no, you've got to use the real thing in M1 loads:
291263

I picked up a pile of these at a show a couple years ago, for $1 per box. I've been using them in my Garand loads and they work well. :)

Of course we can't all rely on 40 year old surplus stocks for our primer needs. :) Typically I would use CCI or Winchester primers in my M1s, never had a problem.


Funny thing, I posted a photo of those primers when I found them a while back, and a couple people replied that I should be careful with them, because they might be corrosive. I guess that's proof that most of us aren't terribly good with attention to details.

Details like the wording NON CORROSIVE right on the box![smilie=1::lol:

[fatelvis]

The whole primer thing in semi-autos is exaggerated. Use what you have, and just don't place a loaded cartridge on the chamber and let the bolt slam into battery on it. The magazine's resistance while releasing the cartridge during regular cycling is important, as it slows the bolt's travel before going into battery. This minimizes the chances of slamfire.

[Baltimoreed]

Cowboy action shooters prefer the more sensitive Federal primers as they run very light mainsprings in their SAs. I use them in ammo for an Argentine 7.65 Mannlicher automatic as it has such an anemic hammer spring. The secret is in not allowing the M1 bolt to slam on a chambered round. But I’m sure that I did that boo boo shooting off a bench years ago but I’ve always used CCI’s which are considered the hardest.

[goryshaw]

I have 3-5 1000 of S&B small rifle/pistol and 10000 lr and a few hundred cci sp, the s&b have become my standard.

[mac1911]

i have wolf been using them for all my LR primer needs for years and years to come