S.W. Kansas

[pdawg_shooter]

Any one else out here in southwest Kansas into paper patching? I would hate to think I am the only one around anal enough to want the kind of performance paper provides!

[eka]

I'm not. But, I sure have enjoyed your insight as I have been learning to patch. Your posts have helped me a bunch. Thanks and keep sharing.

Keith

[pdawg_shooter]

Any time. Patching makes cast shooting easy. If I can help in any way PM or e-mail me pdawg.shooter@gmail.com. Interestingly enough, my first effort was to fit .308 jacketed bullets to a 8mm Mauser with a .318 bore. Worked so good I never quit, and that was in 1965!

[lreed]

pdawg shooter; I have been reading your paperpatch posts with interest. Hope you will coach me along with some of my guestions. I want to patch for 30-06 and 8 mm mauser using heavy castbullets, 311284 for the .30 and 323471 for the 8mm. The .30 sized .302,the 8mm .314, with 16lb paper sized .310 for the .30 .325 for the 8mm. If I patch past the ogive on either of these bullets the bullet base is down past the neck, so I have been using a piece of mono fishing line pulled tight in the top grove,not tied, just pulled to crimp patch down so it can be cut without an exposed edge. I can then load with bullet at base of neck and chamber with ease. Both shoot clean, no leading, the accuracy I would call "fair". What can be changed,eliminated or improved to make my bullet holes just a little more friendly? Thanks for all your interesting posts. lreed

[pdawg_shooter]

pdawg shooter; I have been reading your paperpatch posts with interest. Hope you will coach me along with some of my guestions. I want to patch for 30-06 and 8 mm mauser using heavy castbullets, 311284 for the .30 and 323471 for the 8mm. The .30 sized .302,the 8mm .314, with 16lb paper sized .310 for the .30 .325 for the 8mm. If I patch past the ogive on either of these bullets the bullet base is down past the neck, so I have been using a piece of mono fishing line pulled tight in the top grove,not tied, just pulled to crimp patch down so it can be cut without an exposed edge. I can then load with bullet at base of neck and chamber with ease. Both shoot clean, no leading, the accuracy I would call "fair". What can be changed,eliminated or improved to make my bullet holes just a little more friendly? Thanks for all your interesting posts. lreed

Guess I dont understand what the fishing line is for? You dont mention powder or charge weight. I try to use a powder that will be close to 100% load density. The alloy hardness in important too. The higher the velocity the harder.

[docone31]

I think you are making it a little complicated.
I roll on the patch, and size it down. Sometimes the leading edge of the patch is a little ragged, or uneven. No biggee.
I just wrapped and loaded 50 .308 loads. Some have leading edges that are not quite testbook. I have not found that to be an issue. I sized them .309. I also went about 4gns under starting load for the .308.
I wrap water dropped wheel weight with some tin.
That has been magic for my .303 British. I get better groups with paper patching then with .312 sized jacketed reloads.
Pdawg does know his stuff. He has helped me.
Why the fishing line?
I let the rifleing cut the paper for me.

[lreed]

Hello again;Thanks to you both for replies, The powder used was 4895,40gr in the .30,and 30 in the 8mm, the bullet metal was straight wheel wt, air cooled.
The fishing line deal,perhaps misguided,was an attempt to gain a smooth passage from magazine into chamber of gun,I had problems earlier with the patch rolling up on the exposed edge. The fishing line was used like a "garrote", just a wrap-around and a quick pull, this makes the damp patch stay down in the forward bullet groove. trim patch when dry,line is a tool,not part of the finished bullet.
On the subject of bullet metal, I would have guessed wrong again, was going to go to softer instead of harder lead, What mix do you all use? Can I size bullets and then heat treat to harden sufficiently?
How do you measure success,has anyone ever put to test, same rifle,same shooter,same everything except one bullet patched, the other gaschecked? My goal with cast bullets is to shoot cheap,often, and handsized groups at 500yds,might settle for less. Is the shortest distance to success gained from patched or gascheck? I think maybe I should just change my logon name to" twenty???"
Thanks lreed

[docone31]

I did, my .303 British was my test bed for patched, unpatched, and a variety of sizes.
Using a standard casting for the .303 British, I got 20min of berm. They were sized to .312.
Upsizing, I got smaller, and smaller groups untill I got to .314, my sweet load. The same casting minus paper at .314 is a dog, with paper, outshoots the jacketed loads that were accurate.
I now see the reason for the string. You are wrapping too loosely!
I use a cigarette roller for my .30cals, and .303 British. I do not get feeding issues with my wraps. As a matter of fact, I can load my magazine and blaze away!
The cigarette roller makes short work of the smaller calibers. pdawg has told me he has wrapped .257! I have a 25-06, and paper patching the .257 gives me hope if the jacketeds are no longer pubicly available.
Depending on the paper, when they dry, they are really hard to the casting. Sizing makes them harder still.
Try a tighter wrap. You might not need the extra step of a string. I know the .30cals, and .303 wraps drop right in. The 8mm should also.
You can find them at almost any convience store. They are plastic, inexpensive, and do they make a difference in wrapping.

[pdawg_shooter]

Hardness depends on velocity. Under about 2200 pure lead will work. 2200 to 2600 or so I alloy to 12.0/12.5 BHN. Over 2600 I go for 15.5/16.0. Hope this helps. Success to me is velocity equal to jacketed with the accuracy close to the same.

[lreed]

Hello again: More guestions if I can impose. To Docone The cigarette roller method you use,Do you use regular cotton paper,what weight, do you make two wraps,do you use the traditional angled seamed patch, if so are you able to match the lap seam,wet or dry?? I'll try to roust up a roller tomorrow if get into town.I used to be able to roll a dang good cigarette when I was young, no,not the lefthanded ones, they was Bull Durham with the brown paper,do they still market that stuff?
To Pd Shooter; Would my goal be achieved easier with the bullets mentioned earlier, or should I change to different? There's probably a better choice of powder than 4895, recomend one if you will.
Thanks lreed

[docone31]

4895, is my version of Varget.
I load full tilt, in other words minimum starting loads for jacketeds.
I use two wraps, notebook paper. I prefer the lined paper. Looks kinda neat when rolled. The way the grain goes, the lines go across the centerline of the casting.
I find my length, by cutting a patch with the cut 90*. I then roll the casting dry. Once I get my length, I cut 45* angles. If that is what I am looking for, I take a broken plastic Venetian Blind piece, and cut it to make a template.
When I roll, the ends are not quite textbook. Some line up, some are a little off, some overlap. Doesn't seem to matter when I shoot it. The sizing die makes short work of overlaps, wrinkles, etc.
I dip the patch and put it in the roller soaking. It comes out damp. I then remove the boolitt, and twist the tail, and set it nose down in a 9mm cartridge tray from a box of cartridges.
Next day, if they are dry, I wipe a little Johnson Paste Wax on the paper, after trimming the tail. I shove this through my sizer, and it comes out complete. I use only the Lee Push Thru Sizing Dies. The paper doesn't even feel it.
I had thought, sizing paper was the beginning of a nightmare. I was absolutely wrong!
It is simple, effective, and they work.
Keep us posted. Let the others get fouling, we make mirror shine in our bores.
I got hammer marks out of my barrel by sizing small and wiping fine lapping compound on the paper. They "firelapped" the hammer marks out without enlarging the bore. I only did 20. I had those 20 on hand finding out what size my Smelly prefered.
You gonna be pleasantly suprised at your ultimate results.

[pdawg_shooter]

In the 8mm I think 4350 or even 4831 would be better. The closer to a full case of powder th slower the pressure spike is. As for bullets, if you can find them a Lovern style has always been the easiest for me to get to shoot good. I weigh all my cast on an electronic scale and reject any that varies mire than =/- 1%. I also inspect each bullet under a 3x magnifier lamp. Wrinkles, rounded bases ore groves not sharp goes back into the pot. Be very careful about you wraps, they should all be as close to perfect as you can make them. I patch on a 8x8 rubber block. The near edge has a 1/8 grove to align the bullet. There is a inked on line at 90* to the grove to align the paper. Take your time and get each patch the same. Good Luck!