Difference in HP pins with MP molds

[Wm Cook]

Can anyone explain the performance difference in the two types of HP pins that come with MP HP molds?

This is for the MP 359– 125 HP PB 4 Cavity Brass mold and the MP 314-140 SledgeHammer, HP brass, 10917. The 9 mm is a <1 in 10, 16” Ruger Carbine and the 7.62 is on a 16” one in ten twist mini 30.

Both are intended for self defense with the 140 grain SledgeHammer doubling as a whitetail round.

Velocity on the 9mm should be in the 1,300fps range and the 7.62 should be around 1,900/2,050 fps. Thanks, Bill.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Deeper the pin the better expansion if its a penta verse a plain round should still be depth and width for expansion , penta looks cool though as you do not post pictures am not sure that is what you are asking, I have quite a few MP molds and pins do not interchange on most . Just what came with each mold made for it .

[John McCorkle]

Deeper pins expand well at lower velocities, soft alloys and deep pins mean you can toss em slowly and still expand (likely at the expense of penetration)

That 314-140 at 7.62 velocity would do well with ww alloy and either the small hollow point or penta pin.

Not sure what the advantage of the penta pin is but it's used alot and it seems to reason that you can get larger diameter of expansion with less actual surface/bearing surface to slow bullet penetration....that is pure, unadulterated theory.

Alloy match to your target velocity is much more important....shot placement is more important yet.

For your 9mm, 50/50 with a touch of tin water quenched at that velocity would do dandy with the penta pin.



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[Wm Cook]

These are my first MP molds and they have the flat point, small pin and the penta pin. Didn't know it when I was putting the purchase together but it also has enough holders to set up all three sets of pins. And it comes with lyman top punch.

Kind of cool in that it has all of the shafts to hold all of the pins and it has a good tutorial on how to assemble clean and prep the mol (https://www.mp-molds.com/tipstricks/general-advice-for-using-brass-hp-hollow-point-moulds/)ds. With everything set up all you have to do is to pull 8 e clips and you can switch from FP to narrow hollow point to the penta hollow pins.

Gonna pick up a quantity of the e clips because I can see that going south in a hurry. I think having the right tool to put them on would be a good idea as well.

I'm not refined enough that I can turn range scrap into an alloy blend, or to even tweak the alloy this way or that. All I've ever cast is Lyman #2 from Roto Metal and its 90% Lead, 5% Tin, 5% Antimony. I have a Lee hardness tester, just never got around to using it. Not quite sure what 50/50 with a touch of tin water is.

Casting is a life long learning experience. It makes shooting short range .250" agg's in Benchrest competition with a 6ppc look like child's play. Fell for casting by casting for a 22 K Hornet, 308 Winchester, 35 Remington, 30-30, 357 etc. decades ago. Just got sidetracked and haven't focused on the basics of casting as I should have. Even had a new Lyman furnace a few years ago and I destroyed it trying to keep it from dripping. Went back to my old bottom pour Lyman pot that I bought used back in the 90's.

Thanks for the help, Bill.

The future for me looks to be 90% cast and 10% jacketed.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I edited my earlier post as I left out a word and that was most pins on mine do not interchange , as I have molds from 9mm 38 44 and 45 , and I tried to swap a pin on a mold when once no go from a different mold in 45 , but that does not mean other pins from other sets do not have had no need to check , as to the clips funny I do not even put them on anymore as I have had them fall off , I do love his brass hollow point molds , and he makes .357 molds that work great in my 9mm , I am currently casting with a no lube groove 6 cavity brass solid mold from him runs like a dream , loading with IMR target and supposed to be around 1000 fps .

[John McCorkle]

These are my first MP molds and they have the flat point, small pin and the penta pin. Didn't know it when I was putting the purchase together but it also has enough holders to set up all three sets of pins. And it comes with lyman top punch.

Kind of cool in that it has all of the shafts to hold all of the pins and it has a good tutorial on how to assemble clean and prep the mol (https://www.mp-molds.com/tipstricks/general-advice-for-using-brass-hp-hollow-point-moulds/)ds. With everything set up all you have to do is to pull 8 e clips and you can switch from FP to narrow hollow point to the penta hollow pins.

Gonna pick up a quantity of the e clips because I can see that going south in a hurry. I think having the right tool to put them on would be a good idea as well.

I'm not refined enough that I can turn range scrap into an alloy blend, or to even tweak the alloy this way or that. All I've ever cast is Lyman #2 from Roto Metal and its 90% Lead, 5% Tin, 5% Antimony. I have a Lee hardness tester, just never got around to using it. Not quite sure what 50/50 with a touch of tin water is.

Casting is a life long learning experience. It makes shooting short range .250" agg's in Benchrest competition with a 6ppc look like child's play. Fell for casting by casting for a 22 K Hornet, 308 Winchester, 35 Remington, 30-30, 357 etc. decades ago. Just got sidetracked and haven't focused on the basics of casting as I should have. Even had a new Lyman furnace a few years ago and I destroyed it trying to keep it from dripping. Went back to my old bottom pour Lyman pot that I bought used back in the 90's.

Thanks for the help, Bill.

The future for me looks to be 90% cast and 10% jacketed.Hey I tell you, you're right...I like casting and loading almost as much as actually shooting!!

50/50 is half wheel weight alloy, half plumbing lead and tin typically can be found as solder but you can find it in other forms too.

Alloys is absolutely a rabbit hole. It gets deep and complex fast....but taking in bits of it as you get opportunity and building on it helps. In short lead is very malleable but too soft to withstand the pressures produced in modern calibers so you need to add in small amounts of other alloys that also melt in the same temp range to toughen the bullet to withstand the pressure of being shot...on top of that terminal ballistics are effected by alloys too. Soft lead expands beautifully....but almost too much if you are looking for bullet penetration. Some alloys such as antimony make the bullet hard but more brittle...so it becomes this balancing act of alloy and bullet design and casting temp and water dropped or air cooled and other hardening techniques....in the end...cast what you got and test it. Accuracy will guide you. If you want different performance you can start playing with alloys. I started too fast and got over my head. Actually had to back up and restart figuring out alloys.

#1 lesson I learned was with wheel weights....remove all zinc before smelting...get it out and never mix the two (lead and zinc).

Man have fun. If this becomes overwhelming or a chore...put it down for a while and return when you can have fun with it again!

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[Shuz]

I have several MP moulds, and have found that only 1 e clip is needed for each pin.

[Wm Cook]

Thanks for that.

I purposely avoided the incandescent chants over alloys to side step one learning curve. Thinking if I could buy my way out of it by using Roto’s Lyman 2 blend that it would be “good enough”. And at the time the result I was after then was shooting small groups not penetration and expansion so it made sense to a rookie like me.

So is the Lyman #2 blend from Roto Metal and its 90% Lead, 5% Tin, 5% Antimony generic enough that with what I cast in 9mm (1,300fps) and 7.62 (1,900 fps) that it would be malleable enough that it will expand and penetrate?

And wouldn’t a hardness tester be a finite test for any alloy blend?

I have no clue (might be on Roto Metals site? I’ll have to look) what Lyman #2’s hardness is. But maybe if I saw that the Lyman’s blend had a hardness of x and that a good penetration expansion load for whitetail is y in a 140 grain cast load at 1,900 fps I could find a chart that tells me that to go from x to y hardness in a 20lb pot you need to add “z”. Maybe 80% towards giving a new cast loader a green light that things are headed in the right direction?

I’ve been following this forum a long time an I know that 100 or even 90% agreement is not expected. In part because there are so many variables which draws me to the casting hobby and in part there truly is a huge chunk of art involved in it.

It’s just a lot harder for me because because there’s little “art” in my DNA.

And I always had trouble “not” running down rabbit holes. Went from an open face bait cast rod and reel for catfish on the farm pond when I was 6 to fly fishing by the time I was 10. From shotgun slug hunting deer when I was 16 to bow hunting when I was 18. From motocross riding at 18 to observed trials by the time I was 20. From friendly hand loading around 1990 to Centerfire Benchrest competition by 1995.

In the past casting was simply chasing MOA sonic and sub sonic for accuracy. That’s now shifting towards accurate home defense load development, accurate hunting loads and terminal boolit performance. So understanding alloy’s and bullet design is as natural an evolution as going from fishing with worms to fly fishing for me.

Just wish I had a fraction of the art most reloaders on this forum carry in their DNA. I’m re-reading the 4th edition of Lyman’s cast loading boom so maybe something will enlighten me there. Thanks, Bill.