Can lube cause squibs?

[fn1889m]

I have been reloading for about 10 years, but I’ve only been casting for about a year.
I have had my first squib with my cast bullets. I assumed I had skipped putting powder in, so I modified my loading sequence to eliminate brain dead repetitive habits. I was shocked to get another scrub. I have never had one until I started loading cast bullets.

I tumble lube with Lee Alox/JPW/MS. Is it possible that the lube is contaminating the powder and causing squibs? The last squib was barely a pop. It seemed the primer was possibly contaminated too.

And finally, if these are the result of lube contamination, what are your precautions? I am a slow revolver shooter. But it still concerns me. I have not had any similar errors until I started loading my own cast bullets. If anything, I have been more attentive since then.

[reddog81]

Was there a bunch of unburnt powder in between the bullet and the case?

[Newboy]

Yes, I have experienced that.

I assumed the lube had too much paraffin, or the shells were stored in the heat, and too long.

I changed to a different lube, and then eventually powder coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[mehavey]

Highly unlikely ALOX/Wax combo you mentioned caused powder contamination. (highly)
But if you're worried, throw the tumble-lubed bullets onto a pizza pan and place in oven for 20-min at 225° before bed and leave there overnite as things cool.

Once properly applied/dried, ALOX ain't goin' nowhere.





postscript: You need only the thinnest of films w/ ALOX. Try just "greasing" thumb/forefinger with pure LLA, lightly twirl bullet between them as you pick it up/place on pie pan. No need to have much (if anything) in lube grooves at all. Thin..... Properly applied/dried, ALOX is the oldest/most effective/cleanest/trouble-free of cat's meow lubes.

[Ozark mike]

If this was a grease type loob id say its possable but not alox. I have used grease cookies for years and still nary a problem. So i doubt that was the problem what load caliber bullet primer ect

[dverna]

I had it happen with .38 target loads that had been stored for 25 years. (2.7 gr of Bullseye). I doubt it would have been a problem with a rifle case with a lot more powder but I do not know for sure. Never had one on loads less than 5 years old.

I suspect in your case, it is loading protocol. If you are using a single stage, after charging powder, seat the bullet. There is no good reason to use a loading block and charge with powder first, set bullet down and seat bullet after the loading block is full. That is my method when loading on a SS press.

If on a progressive, check if you are getting a lot of static electricity or powder hang up anywhere.

[Dusty Bannister]

Actually there is a good reason to charge the cases and set them in a loading block after charging and before starting the bullet. It is to examine every case to see if the powder level is the same. Everyone has their own methods that they have developed over the years to avoid under or over charges. Some will even use a short dowel as a "dip stick" having marked the dowel when the powder is at the correct level. This shows easily if there is something out of the ordinary. Not the only way of doing something, just the way I prefer to double check the powder level. Dusty

[GhostHawk]

I'm with Dusty. In between charging cases and setting bullets the little LED flashlight comes out and powder levels get a good look over.

A little bridging in your measure and you can come up short. And the next one might be an overcharge. Does not happen often but I prefer to catch them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You don't give us much to go on, but with what you said, I'd bet benjamins that it ain't your Lee Alox/JPW/MS Lube.

[Froogal]

Actually there is a good reason to charge the cases and set them in a loading block after charging and before starting the bullet. It is to examine every case to see if the powder level is the same. Everyone has their own methods that they have developed over the years to avoid under or over charges. Some will even use a short dowel as a "dip stick" having marked the dowel when the powder is at the correct level. This shows easily if there is something out of the ordinary. Not the only way of doing something, just the way I prefer to double check the powder level. Dusty

I installed some BRIGHT lights over my reloading my bench. I examine each and every shell after dropping the powder. If it looks good, I then set the bullet onto the case, and then place it in the reloading tray.

[Ozark mike]

I trust my 55. Never had problems with shy charges. And i always use full case powders. I got smaller guns if i desire less recoil

[Hossfly]

It’s very easy to get distracted, just having a visitor in reloading room will distract you. I like powder checkers for back up for looking with plenty of light on the subject.

[prs]

I ran into a similar situation years ago. Was very puzzled at the occasional squibs that all of a sudden began happening after years of no such problems. I load on progressive and these were 45 Colt cases with 7.5gr Unique. Hard to see that in the big cases. The primers were CCI and I trusted them, so I removed the powder measure and bottle. Lo and behold there was a bit of fabric fuzz in the bottom of the neck of the bottle upon the wiper. That was easy to cure, but I had HUNDREDS of rounds to pull and the charges were erratic. Lesson learned; I inspect the powder measure before each refilling, I closely watch as the powder is slowly poured into the hopper for foreign matter, I use a baffle, I mounted a mechanic's mirror over the bullet seating station to allow me to peer down into the cases before setting bullets on case mouth. No such problems since, knocking on wood. I suspect the fuzz may have come from some Elephant black powder I had used previously.

prs

[fn1889m]

I am loading Unique in .44 and .45; 231 in .38. I have modified my process so I fill 5 cases at a time, inspect 5 cases for powder level, and then seat 5 cases. Even made a little sign with the sequence and put it next to my block. Using a turret press. Previously I was charging and seating one bullet at a time. There is the possibility that I skipped a step due to defective repetitive motion habits.

I admit that I probably use too much lube. Or seated the bullet before it was dry. Not defending myself. It made me re-examine my process of both lube and charging. I do use a 55 and then weigh each charge on an electronic scale. Am OCD about powder weights. The “charge 5 - compare - seat 5” should have eliminated omitting the charge.

[farmbif]

as I seat cast bullets I look at bottom first and if excess lube is on base I wipe the bottom off before seating. but I recently came across a whole bunch of 9mm that was loaded a few years ago and none will even fire. all have Winchester gold colored primers, not the older chromed ones, but loads with cci primers all fired.

[mdi]

I can only share my experiences as I haven't done a double blind test on lubes affecting powder. I have only been casting since the mid '80s and have used a lot of alox and 45-45-10 dip lubed. I also have mixed up some home made lubes and pan lubed several thousand bullets for 38 Special up to 45 Colt and just a few 30-06 and 223 rifle bullets. I have stored some handloads in a tin shed but for the last 10 years in a stick built shed. Neither air conditioned (first shed in So. CA w/temps to 110, and last 10 years in So, OR from lower 30s to occasional 95 degree days). I think the oldest was some 44 Magnum that were maybe 17-18 years old and all fired just as if they were a year old. I've experienced no squibs, no erratic ignition from anything, including lube contamination...

Safe reloading techniques have been well covered on every forum I've visited (many times) so I'll just add my method. I had a squib in 1970. Since that time I have looked in every case, rifle and hand gun, I have reloaded to make sure there is powder and if there is a double charge (no way to tell if the charge or too light or too heavy, just make sure there is one powder charge in the case)...

[kevin c]

I mostly use coated bullets so I haven't got the personal experience to pass on about bullet lube contamination. I can tell you through personal experimentation that very heavy case lube contamination can cause squibs and hang fires, but it takes a lot to do it.

I load on a progressive without automation, using a little mantra called "the 5 P's" to remind me of the necessary steps for proper press function and production of safely charged rounds:

Pull (the handle, to size/deprime/charge/seat/crimp in the various stations).

Push (the handle, to prime).

Pick up a bullet and case.

Peek in the charged case to confirm proper charging.

Place the bullet on the charged case and the new case in station one.

And repeat.

Doing this, I've only had squibs I made deliberately (those case lube contaminated loads and a couple powder free cases when I was starting out so I could actually hear what a squib sounded like).

[charlie b]

I experienced quite a few squibs before I found the cause on my progressive (Lee Load Master). Turned out the powder measure was not retracting correctly. So, minor fix with a spring and have not had one since with a pistol.

When loading rifle I measure each load and pour in the case at the proper step in the process. I have had two squibs out of about 6000 rounds in the last three years. It happened when I get distracted and forget to pour in the powder. I changed my procedure after the second squib. The good part is that a primer only will not push a bullet into the barrel of my .308 :)

Lube? I've not ever had a problem with it and we used to store our loaded ammo in an unheated/uncooled shed during summers of over 110F. We pan lubed with the generic brown stick lube and the ammo was stored base down. My theory is the bullet 'seals' against the case walls so almost no lube will get anywhere near the powder.

[Alferd Packer]

Another cause for what you call a squib bullet is the primer seating.
Primers should be seated so they are slightly below flush for best operation in all guns, including those with lightened trigger pulls which can lighten the primer strike causing the misfire ,occasional or frequent.
Merely seating the primers flush with the bottom of the case means the primer strike has to drive the primer in further to let the anvil bottom out and then fire the primer.
In other words, a strong primer strike finishes seating the primer and ensures a positive primer pop. This info has been known and published in the older reloading manuals and included in some of the recently published manuals as well.
So, seating the primers below flush should include cleaning the fired crust out of a once fired shell primer pocket as well. The fired crust or ash residue can cushion the anvil, although seating the primer deeper than flush can break up this ash or crust and usually primers will successfully fire.
To repeat: a merely flush seated primer over a dirty pocket combined with a weak primer strike will sometimes yield a weak misfire or a fail to fire.
Add cold weather and maybe stiff oil or gun grease and the tendency to misfire increases.
Even a dirty gun with dirt preventing the shells to bottom out can lessen the primer strike coupled with the above.
Seat primers to the bottom of the pocket below flush and clean your gun.
Even tumbling once fired dirty shells before reloading will ensure no dirt under stuck under a rim where the carbide die doesn't scrape.
Good luck !

[jonp]

I had it happen with .38 target loads that had been stored for 25 years. (2.7 gr of Bullseye). I doubt it would have been a problem with a rifle case with a lot more powder but I do not know for sure. Never had one on loads less than 5 years old.

I suspect in your case, it is loading protocol. If you are using a single stage, after charging powder, seat the bullet. There is no good reason to use a loading block and charge with powder first, set bullet down and seat bullet after the loading block is full. That is my method when loading on a SS press.

If on a progressive, check if you are getting a lot of static electricity or powder hang up anywhere.

Moisture condensation inside the case in the unused portion of the case exposed to internal air pocket? Get the same thing on the insides of my semi tanks in the winter. If you don't fill the tanks up full, when the fuel cools off the inside will have condensation on the surfaces and in the winter ice.

[kevin c]

I wouldn't have thought the amount of air in the case could cause enough moisture condensation to matter, especially as I thought that rounds are mostly air and moisture tight?

[waksupi]

If using a progressive reloader, that would be my prime suspect.

[Wayne Smith]

I am loading Unique in .44 and .45; 231 in .38. I have modified my process so I fill 5 cases at a time, inspect 5 cases for powder level, and then seat 5 cases. Even made a little sign with the sequence and put it next to my block. Using a turret press. Previously I was charging and seating one bullet at a time. There is the possibility that I skipped a step due to defective repetitive motion habits.

I admit that I probably use too much lube. Or seated the bullet before it was dry. Not defending myself. It made me re-examine my process of both lube and charging. I do use a 55 and then weigh each charge on an electronic scale. Am OCD about powder weights. The “charge 5 - compare - seat 5” should have eliminated omitting the charge.

I think you just answered your own question. Unique is the only powder that has bound up in every powder measure I have except the Belding and Mull. I only use the B&M when I'm using Unique.

[Alferd Packer]

Experienced the same and I think it's from moisture condensing inside a case loaded on a hot day and fired later on on a cooler day.
It wouldn't take a lot of condensation to make a pasty mess of a powder charge.
Just a wag.
Factories that load ammo have to keep a temperature and humidity controlled environment to both eliminate moisture as well as avoiding static electricity from extremely dry air.
Can we say the same?

[kreuzlover]

I've been loading since 1965, and I've never even HEARD of condensation in a case causing squibs, and I live in Texas, where humid is just a normal day. And, I've never used loading blocks. That is OLD tech, and not needed. I use a single stage press, size, then expand case mouth and prime. The last step I drop powder charge, LOOK INTO CASE FOR POWDER LEVEL, then seat bullet. Only time I've had squibs was when I had a short in my brain and forgot to put powder in the case.

[44Blam]

Highly unlikely ALOX/Wax combo you mentioned caused powder contamination. (highly)
But if you're worried, throw the tumble-lubed bullets onto a pizza pan and place in oven for 20-min at 225° before bed and leave there overnite as things cool.

Once properly applied/dried, ALOX ain't goin' nowhere.





postscript: You need only the thinnest of films w/ ALOX. Try just "greasing" thumb/forefinger with pure LLA, lightly twirl bullet between them as you pick it up/place on pie pan. No need to have much (if anything) in lube grooves at all. Thin..... Properly applied/dried, ALOX is the oldest/most effective/cleanest/trouble-free of cat's meow lubes.

I use the latest version of BLL which is mineral spirits, floor wax and alox blended. But you put like 2-3 drops in a tub with 2-300 boolits. They don't have to be wet, they just need to stink of it.

Funny thing - apparenly my grandpa was using this formula or something similar. I remember going down in their basement and exploring. I remember he had a single stage press and a shotgun press. I also remember the smell. It's the same smell as BLL - which is a little different than just plain Alox.

[44Blam]

Other story:

I had a squib a while back. When I load pistol ammo, I use a RCBS chargemaster lite. It is really handy. While you are resizing/priming, it is measuring. Well, one day I made 50 boolits and the chargemaster said it made 49. I thought (of course) it must have not registered one. I've been loading these things and I saw the powder in each and every one...

I also put a "Possible SQUIB" on the box. This was a box of 40 S&W I generally shoot in a glock.

I shot that box at the range and sure enough about 5 rounds in, unstead of a pow, I get a tink. The gun didn't cycle and I knew. Ooops, I missed one. Drop mag, cycle... Yup.

For pistols, I have a little brass rod so I was able to hammer that guy back out and continue but sure enough - no powder will pretty much squib every time.

[Lloyd Smale]

i was having squibs one very hot day with some 105 lees that were tumble lubed in my 38. took them home and pulled some and found some with a ball of powder stuck to the bottom of the bullets. I dont use tumble lube much anymore and when i do i just use it for ammo im going to shoot in the next day or two. Id never rely on it for self defense or hunting loads. Im sure it could happen with any lube you got on the base of a bullet.

[ubetcha]

My loading procedure on a turrent press is to size and prime all cases, flare and powder all cases, then inspect the powder level in all cases while in loading tray, add bullet seat and crimp. Last year while at a silhouette match, I had a pop-bang. Being that I was concentrating on my sights and target,it caught me a little off guard. Opening the cylinder on my Ruger Security Six, all looked ok and I could see light at the forcing cone indicating no barrel restriction. Several shots later I had more pop-bangs, I stopped shooting that match altogether . All seemed good when I pulled the loads down. What I concluded was insufficient crimp because after reloading with the same powder charge and bullet and increasing the crimp, I have had no problems since. Why the crimp changed I don't know. Maybe case length differences from previous 357 cases.

[redhawk0]

Knock, knock, knock(on wood)...in 45 years not a single squib from a reload. Had a few dud 22s...but never from my reloads.

My reloading methods work...and I'm not changing any processes now.

I just jinx'd it....didn't I?

redhawk