Tight primer pockets- .223 mixed head stamp

[mjwcaster]

I have only loaded LC 5.56 brass before for .223/5.56, no issues seating primers as long as I reamed the primer pockets good.
Tonight I tried loading mixed headstamp brass and had a heck of a time getting primers seated, some wouldn’t seat at all.

I know many use mixed headstamp with no issues, so what am I doing wrong?

I use a Ballistic Tools primer pocket swage gauge to check the primer pockets of all my .223 brass and ream/clean primer pockets if necessary with a Lyman handheld case prep tool.

I have 2 lots of new small rifle primers, never loaded with these before, no other SR primers in house, I restocked this spring.

CCI 400.- Measured .177”
Winchester military SR- measured .176”

Measured with a micrometer.

A few headstamps primed OK, but many were extremely tight or wouldn’t prime at all. I was just trying random headstamps, with no LC, RP or FC or PMC, these were separated earlier.

FC was too tight, RP primed ok, but wasn’t prepped yet.

I was about to give up but decided to try some of my prepped LC brass. Primer slid in beautifully, win military SR, didn’t try the CCI yet.
Sample size of one, I gave up then, time to sleep on this issue and start again in the morning.
I only have a limited amount of LC and bought a bunch of powder and primers so I would like to use mixed HS for plinking and save my LC for special use.

Any suggestions?
Am I lucky enough to just have 2 lots of primers that are on the large size?


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[ryanmattes]

I had trouble sometimes with crimped primers, and started using the Lyman handheld pocket reamer to straighten them out. Sometimes you have to take off quite a bit of brass, and it takes some practice to do it right the first time. First time you go through a couple thousand range pickups you'll have the hang of it.

On more precision, or expensive, loads you'd probably want to get a proper pocket swager, which is a lot slower, but for bulk .223, the reamer does the trick.

I just chuck the (sized and trimmed) case into my drill headstamp out and spin it, use the reamer, then the RCBS pocket cleaner, flip the brass over and rechuck, spin it up, use a bore brush to clean the case mouth, and a simple chamfer/debur tool to finish it up. Takes 20 seconds or so per case once you get into a rhythm.

Primers seat easily every time now.

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[tomme boy]

FC is a crimped primer. It needs reamed or swaged. That is your problem

[geslayton]

I load mixed brass, but, every one of them go through my super swage first for good measure. I don't even look at the headstamps unless Im low on 25x45 which I convert from LC brass.

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[charlie b]

Yes, FC is crimped. I have found some commercial federal that were crimped as well.

These days I ream out the primer pocket of all .223 brass that is range pickup.

The measuring tools are ok, but, it doesn't take very much ridge to make primer seating difficult.

[mjwcaster]

FC was just a test after trying mixed headstamps.
They are separated out, not part of the mixed headstamp batch.
I separated out LC and then the 3 most numerous headstamps, FC, RP, PMC.

Thanks for the heads up, I hadn’t checked/prepped the separated brass, only the mixed headstamps.
This was a quick test to see if I could easily load mixed brass after prepping/checking primer pockets.
I guess the answer is no.

So it sounds like I need to ream all the brass.

Time to pick up a super swagger I guess, I’ve wanted one, but didn’t load enough rifle to justify one before.


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[Hossfly]

I got the Dillon super swage after i lucked into a container of approx 7,000 223/5.56 from range clean up. Didn’t want to sort as to head stamp.

Rigged up unit with rubber from bicycle tube and went to town, flinging and having fun. Every once in a while it would fling across room when it would miss the box I’d rigged for catcher, and hit wall 10’ from staging area. Set up another box to catch the fliers.

Worked great, after processing all those, the Dillon has been sitting ever since, over 3 years haven’t used that device. It works very well.

[mjwcaster]

I think I have decided to try the Lee APP for both swaging brass and sizing cast bullets.
Might get one in by next month, like everything they are out of stock or long delivery dates.

Probably get a better case trimmer too, I am leaning towards a Little Crow WFT.

For now I am just going to load up what prepped LC brass I have on hand and try to acquire more.

Have I mentioned I am not fond of prepping brass.


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[mjwcaster]

And for the record it appears not all FC 223 brass is crimped.
I thought I had checked the primer pockets before trying to seat a primer and it seems I did.

I have two different FC headstamps-
FC 223- not crimped, PP tool fits easily
FC yr 223- crimped, ex FC 17 223

This is what makes sorting brass so much fun, I hadn’t really looked close at the brass on my initial sorting.

I did find some/all FC brass was shorter than trim to length though.
I haven’t checked it all, just some that I missed on initial inspection and were in my mixed headstamp batch when I processed it.
Almost everything that was short was FC, not sure which FC.

More fun.


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[ryanmattes]

FYI, American Eagle brass has the "FC yr" stamp and is crimped. I think they run them through the same machines after they do military runs, without taking out the crimp step

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[Winger Ed.]

I've run into various cases that had a crimp with head stamps I thought shouldn't have one.

Now I run all the 5.56 cases I scrounge across a deburring tool chucked up in a slow turning lathe.
Touching it on the tool about 1/2 a second will clean it off, if there isn't a crimp- it doesn't hurt it either.

[ryanmattes]

I think I have decided to try the Lee APP for both swaging brass and sizing cast bullets.
Might get one in by next month, like everything they are out of stock or long delivery dates.

Probably get a better case trimmer too, I am leaning towards a Little Crow WFT.

For now I am just going to load up what prepped LC brass I have on hand and try to acquire more.

Have I mentioned I am not fond of prepping brass.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDepending on how precise you want to be with case length, I've had great results with the L.E. Wilson trimmer with the micrometer adjustment.

https://lewilson.com/stainless-case-trimmer-kit-with-micrometer-adjust-stop

Get the first case trimmed exactly where you want it, lock it down, and you can do hundreds of cases an hour to precisely the same length.

It does require a case-specific gauge, and sometimes a factory vs fired gauge, but the results are extremely consistent and repeatable.

Pretty sure they have a drill motor attachment too, if you don't want to hand crank, but the cutter is sharp and doesn't require any real pressure.

I also use it to cut down .38spl cases to .38 long colt length, even though they don't make a .38 long gauge.

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[dragon813gt]

I ran into berdan primed 223 brass yesterday. Was from range pickups and I have no idea how long ago I picked them up. First time I came across them and don’t wish to ever again. Easy to feel but still leaves the potential for a broken decapping pin.

I treat all new to me 223/5.56 brass as having crimped primer pockets. I just swaged about 1.5k on a APP this afternoon. Unlike previous sessions I had very little issues.

Over the past two months I’ve tried the WCT, WFT and Trim-It II. Didn’t like any of them and none of them were consistent. Broke out the Forster w/ a three way cutter and produced cases that were exactly the same length and didn’t need to be chamfered. Should have done this from the start but locking every case down in the collet is hard on my hand. I wasted about 8-10 hours w/ the other trimmers. The only one left to try is a Giraud power trimmer. Not going to mess around w/ their Tri-Way because the other three designs that are similar all left a lot to be desired.

[whisler]

I have some boxer primer 223 cases with primer flash holes too small to allow depriming with a Lee depriming tool. I just scrap them.

[aap2]

All of the .223/5.56 brass that I reload gets a trip thru my Dillon Super Swage which makes the primer pockets of any boxer primed case suitably uniform. I used to sort the brass and try to identify the crimped primers but I don’t bother anymore....I just swage everything. This really pays off when I process a trashcan full of range brass.

[tomme boy]

The berdan primed brass was probably South African.

If you are going to use the Lee APP to swage the brass, know this. Raise and swage them at least 3 times before you eject the case. It works awesome for 9mm but 556 brass not so much.

[charlie b]

This reminds me of a reloading session I had with .45acp a while back. Went to prime a case and, bam! Turns out there was some mfg who made .45acp with small primers. First time I ever saw that.

Gotta check all your brass before reloading.

[mjwcaster]

There are several SP 45acp.
Federal, win, Speer, CCI probably more I don’t remember. I have a container of them under the bench.
About 5-10% of my range pickup is SP.

And don’t forget the brass plated steel cases.
I now run a magnet over everything and find a few now and again. Not the old copper washed steel Russian cases, these look like brass, but are steel underneath.


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[NyFirefighter357]

https://youtu.be/C34sRku4ASY

[376Steyr]

Make sure you are using the right size priming post in your priming tool. I once had my Dillon 550 suddenly start refusing to prime, misfeed primers, etc. Turned out I had installed the wrong size priming system. :killingpc

[charlie b]

Had no idea anyone made sp cases for the .45. Oh well.

Haven't done that....yet :)

Didn't know about copper wash on steel either. I now pick out weird headstamps. Still have to check for crimped primers too.

[ryanmattes]

https://youtu.be/C34sRku4ASYSlick.

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[JimB..]

The only one left to try is a Giraud power trimmer. Not going to mess around w/ their Tri-Way because the other three designs that are similar all left a lot to be desired.

I have this and like it, but the tri-way cutter is not easy to get properly adjusted (good that you only do it once) and the length can vary by a few thou until you get the hang of it at which point it still varies by a thou or two.

[dragon813gt]

If you are going to use the Lee APP to swage the brass, know this. Raise and swage them at least 3 times before you eject the case. It works awesome for 9mm but 556 brass not so much.

Haven’t found the need to do this. One pass is enough. The issue has been case alignment or lack there of. It does not place the case in the same spot in the shell holder every time. This leads to the backup rod not wanting to enter the case. I detailed this in the thread I created about the APP. I had this same problem yesterday. But it was already setup unlike my Dillon 600 so I kept using the APP. I would not suggest buying an APP for swaging if you don’t have one. Buy a Dillon 600 instead.


I have this and like it, but the tri-way cutter is not easy to get properly adjusted (good that you only do it once) and the length can vary by a few thou until you get the hang of it at which point it still varies by a thou or two.

This is the problem that I had w/ the other designs like it. One of the designs had a set screw on the shaft that kept coming loose. So much wasted time. And at the end of the day the case lengths are not consistent which I don’t want. Spending more time for consistent lengths is worth it to me.

[charlie b]

Are you measuring the overall case length or shoulder to mouth? Those trimmers don't care what the overall case length is, only the relationship of neck to case mouth. If they are sized slightly differently before using the trimmer then the OAL's will be different. I think I would go back and measure case dimensions and compare base to shoulder lengths before blaming the trimmers.

PS I am not that picky about it. I resize and then use the Lee case trimmers.

[mjwcaster]

Had no idea anyone made sp cases for the .45. Oh well.

Haven't done that....yet :)

Didn't know about copper wash on steel either. I now pick out weird headstamps. Still have to check for crimped primers too.

The copper washed are visually identifiable, I’ve only seen them on rifle cases, particularly 7.62x54. They don’t look like brass, but don’t look like steel either.
The brass over steel look just like brass, not sure how they would reload.
I just read about them here last year and thought ‘no way’
I had a batch of 9mm brass that I had visually sorted the aluminum and steel from laying around.
A magnet picked up several of the cases that looked like brass to me, not sure of the headstamps.


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[mjwcaster]

I bought the APP for case prep, bullet sizing and PP swaging.
From what I’ve read it can work, but requires tinkering, and a 3D printer gets a lot of use in modifying one.
So I consider it a nice parts kit and a winter project, just like many inexpensive products.
I keep waiting for my smoker to die so I can improve it, insulation, bigger heating element, rewire it, etc.
I bought it knowing it’s flaws, but it just keeps working, just not optimally.

Now if my friend would only get his 3D printer set up. He’s only had it since Christmas.
It’s been put on hold by Covid, the bedroom it was destined for is now an office since they now both work from home. And he wants it in a room with a door to keep the cats out while printing.


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[mjwcaster]

This reminds me of a reloading session I had with .45acp a while back. Went to prime a case and, bam! Turns out there was some mfg who made .45acp with small primers. First time I ever saw that.

Gotta check all your brass before reloading.

This is why JMORRIS built an automated primer pocket size sorter for his 1050.
I wonder if the APP can be modified for this somehow.


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