loading cast using jacketed data ??

[Northboy]

Been doing alot of reading and found conflicting info. I currently have a load for 357 with H110 pushing a 158 gr hornady XTP. Can i use the starting load for that with say a 158 gr cast?? All the data ive seen runs cast at lower pressures and velocity's than jacketed loads. I want to reach 1300-1400 FPS with my PC Cast Boolits, preferably with a hodgon powder. "I'm just a little partial to hodgon", I should also mention i want to do it our of a 6.5 in barrel and my J-word load runs around 1400 acording to data, havent chronoed it yet.

[Harter66]

In straight wall pistols I haven't had any issues . I used some H110 in a Ruger for 265 gr cast to 1280 fps and immediately decided I had too much of a good thing . PC I don't see anything stopping you as long as you mind the work up and stop at good groups and before the cast sticks .

[tazman]

If you will check, most of the data is fired from a test barrel that isn't vented like a revolver and, in the case of Hodgdon, the test barrel is 10 inches long.
You may not get the velocity you wish with a 6 inch revolver barrel.
That said, the Lyman 49th reloading manual lists several loads for cast using H110 that achieve nearly what you want using a 4 inch barrel. The max loads listed for cast are about the same or 1 grain less than the starting loads for jacketed.
Use at your own risk as I have not tested this data. I am simply reading from the manuals.

[NyFirefighter357]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?270310-H110-158-gn-lead-SWC-357-magnum

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?138819-357-mag-158-gr-cast-H-110

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?266225-H110-under-hard-cast-lead-bullets

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?174293-the-357-magnum-winchester-296-or-h110-and-plain-based-cast-boolits

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?78071-h110-for-cast-in-357

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?338371-Loading-data-for-Lee-158gr-RNFP

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?60133-what-is-your-favorite-357-mag-load

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=158+cast+h110&sa.x=0&sa.y=0&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fsearch.php%3Fse archid%3D6531622&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowthread.php%3F38 7647-350-Legend-and-Cast-Boolits%2Fpage13&ss=10386j17359620j13

[parkerhale1200]

No problems where found in my 308 223 44 38 and 357.
But your lead alloy must be hard enough, you can get away with 25 bhn 30 would be better.
And measure you dimensions accurate.

Best Igor

[cwlongshot]

While probably not dangerious.... Accuracy might be a diff story. 357 is on the cusp of pressure issues for cast. As Parker mentions above...

Id recommend Ya start with cast data and work up. Coarse this eliminates H110/296 as they dont get downloaded well. But MANY MANY other powders that will likely prove better.

CW

[Harter66]

Alloy .
Copper soaked up in your tin for .5% of alloy is huge in bullet survival without throwing off terminal performance to much .
It's been a long time since I shot 357 for speed tops and I wasn't here then .

[MT Gianni]

Yes but, casting perfect bullets isn't easy. Fit, alloy, hardness, tenacity and lubes all fall into play. I believe the bore must be cleaned and seasoned with mid or lower velocity loads with the same lube you shoot before you get to fast loads. IOW, there is a curve more than just dropping in a cast slug and shooting it.

[Northboy]

WOW, Thanks guys. NyFirefighter357 thanks for the links. I dont own a lyman manual but think im going to order one. Thank you all!

[243winxb]

Old Win data. 296/110 same powder now. Not always.

[parkerhale1200]

Stick to vihtavuori or accurate/lovex(powder on this side of the pond), clean as a whistle and no sit back on accuracy.
But like all bulltis you must know your dimensions even your throat depth, it will wear out over the years.

Gianni sad:
Fit, alloy, hardness, tenacity and lubes all fall into play:

Yes yes yes and yes: hardness is the simplest one, start "soft" (20 bhn) with a moderate/low full jacket load, shoot 5, check bore, clean bore.
Go from there till you get a clean bore.(lube comes also into play, keep reading)
Increase the bhn every session until a cleannish bore is there.
Then make 5 at the minimum charge with increments at 2,5% pro-cent or 1 grain (on powder)depends on the caliber, at the time, then you will know the max speed for your firearm/rifle.
Make the alloy at bit harder ~5 bhn, go back and start with minimum charge again.

All this has one big mandatory rule, KNOW YOUR GUNS DIMENSIONS.
Heck for fun i shot 5 308 with full jacket load at 14 bhn....nice white clouds with number 4 and 5, no over pressure btw, accuracy you could cry, i was surprised they where on the target at 110 yards.

Lube: simple: fast loads above 2000 use high pressure hydrophilic lithium grease with wax 50-50, not the rcbs stuff, lbt has very good blue grease. order some you, wont be disappointing i can grantee.
Below that use low or standard lithium grease.(rcbs second place for me that is sorry, i dont think i have some btw).

Things to look out for: if leading is at the beginning of the barrel, the boolit bumped at the transaction cone.
Leading at the end of your barrel: you run out of lube for that speed.(or get bigger grease groves or higher pressure lithium)
Leading at halfway your barrel, or your boolit is to soft or your grease is to soft. or you did not have your dimensions proper.

You dont have to "season" your bore or to lap your bore.
Lapping is only done if you want to shoot cast with a NEW bore immediately.
Lapping can also be done with a old bore to get it back into shape.

Like always: lead, iron, tombac, copper (or jacket), gascheck, teflon or what ever, every 500 shots is the advice to clean your bore.
Long range match shooters: one will clean after every shoot, the other one will shoot you at site if you only mention cleaning the bore.
When you have it all figured out, clean when neccecery.
If with experimenting: after every session.
Clean with fun: paper patching, but it will wear out quicker

I shoot cast in my ar with better performance than with jacket(not even the cheapest ones) still have to clean it after a 3000+ shots, but clean as a whistle, same for my beloved parkerhale1200, my 38/357....cleaning???i can not remember the last time, not even a bruss or patch, my 44 due to the violence(or bhn error) every 250-300 shots.

Dissolving copper into tin wont give you a good alloy and it is a hiddues task. You basically put copper particals into your alloy.(microscoop will see them)
If you happen to have a melting oven that will exceed 1200 Celcius, than you will get a proper alloy.
Can it be done with a regular melting/casting pot???, yes very sure!!!, but it will take along time, and you gain not so much in bhn scale.
Then go with bismuth or arsenic, but for god sake,,,,use very good ventilation or outside in the wind.
Stick to every old timer beloved recipe, tin antimony and lead, but you would be a big fool if you had the opportunity to experiment and you did not take it....just saying

Follow this and you will get there,just dont expect results within one month.
Hint: let your fresh casted boolits after lubing "cure"for 3 months or search for oven heat threating, after this let them "cure" for one month.

Those where the basics in bird flying.
Have fun, mind your safety, have a huge savings (quality 308 for 11 cent full jacket load) and happy shooting ofcourse.

With best regards, Igor

[parkerhale1200]

Look out with old data, the powders will change over time and thus the load.
When you are more experienced you will have a better feeling of what you are doing.
Real life example: a very ~experienced big mouth reloader~.....(4 months of experience) used a 20 year old reloading book for his 44mag with new powder......he is clad that he can still write.

I can make a scan of my lyman bible for a caliber you desire?

[Ozark mike]

Without reading every post my answer is i have done it but ya got to pay attention to seating depth. Would i recommend it not really i follow my cast bible for almost all my loads or i use known velocities and work up my own

[fredj338]

Been doing alot of reading and found conflicting info. I currently have a load for 357 with H110 pushing a 158 gr hornady XTP. Can i use the starting load for that with say a 158 gr cast?? All the data ive seen runs cast at lower pressures and velocity's than jacketed loads. I want to reach 1300-1400 FPS with my PC Cast Boolits, preferably with a hodgon powder..

In a word yes, you can use starting jacketed data & work up. Though you will hit max with a lead bullet sooner than jacketed in my exp.

[Northboy]

Well Luckily im in no hurry, I have all winter and semmer to work on it. I ordered the lyman 4rth edition for right now and working n rounding up some more WW. I want to say thank you again.

[Conditor22]

I'm OK with using the starting load for jacketed bullets to start load development for cast boolits

http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet%20Casting/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20Reduce.pdf

[mdi]

No problems where found in my 308 223 44 38 and 357.
But your lead alloy must be hard enough, you can get away with 25 bhn 30 would be better.
And measure you dimensions accurate.

Best Igor

25 or 30 BHN? Perhaps a typo? I have never used anything harder than my Lyman #2 clone, about 15 BHN, but a lot of 10-12 BHN in my handguns and only as high as 14-15 in my hot 9mm loads. I have successfully cast/loaded and fired my 12 BHN "stock alloy" in my light .223, and my Garand 30-06. No problems...

There is tons of good load data for 357 Magnums available nearly everywhere, so why would you not use available, correct data? I see no "conflicting info"; lead bullets use readily available, easy to find lead bullet data. Jacketed bullets use readily available, easy to find jacketed bullet data. Unless you are an experienced reloader just wanting to know theory, use correct data...