Getting started with reloading for my S&W Model 10-5?

[VariableRecall]

Hi there! I'm Joe.
I'm a last time gun loaner and first time gun owner! I've had my share of good firearm experiences and now I've purchased my first piece all my own: A Smith and Wesson Model 10-5 from approximately 1969, off of Gunbroker.com.

267760

The finish is fairly beat up, but the internals are just great. Shot 36 rounds of PPU 130gr FMJ .38 Special through it no problem and collected all the brass. However, since I only have ONE box of .38 special with little to no chance to purchase a new box for any reasonable price, it seems to me that the best course of action is to figure out how to safely reload ammunition on a trim budget of both funds and interior space. I hope for all equipment to fit in a backpack or duffel bag, just to make sure it doesn't take too much space.

I'm looking to start reloading from just about square one. All I have is the recently shot brass in a plastic bag in the same state as it left the cylinder. I've done some research, but I'm a complete newcomer to this scene. my budget is around $300, the approximate price of 400 rounds of bulk .38 Special ammo these days.

Casting is out of the question since I live in an apartment (thankfully with a firearm friendly roommate), but I'm willing to purchase bullets from 3rd parties or larger companies. Thankfully, I live not too far from a Sporting goods store so some smaller items of reloading equipment can be conceivably be obtained without having to deal with online wait times or shipping.

Here's a short list of Items that I think I need for all of this to happen;

A reloading manual for .38 Special or more handgun cartridges. (not planning on reloading anything else for some time, hopefully brand agnostic)

Hand press OR single stage press (I want something portable and cheap. Willing to deal with a slow process)

.38 Special press dies (Unsure which ones I need, could use some help with this.)

Reloading tray (the kind to arrange ammunition in progress of assembly)

Powder funnels

Kinetic cartridge separator (one of those hammer thingys)

electronic or mechanical scale (hopefully portable)

Primer press/extractor

Pistol primers/ .38 caliber handgun bullets

Am I missing anything here? Do you have any other resources handy that I can refer to to begin my hand-loading adventures? I'm only looking to load either SWC, LRN or FMJ with standard amount of oomph to them. I don't want to damage my revolver or hurt myself for obvious reasons. I'd Rather not pay extra for hollow-points or JHP.

If you have other tips regarding all of this, let me know as well.

Thank you!

[farmbif]

right now lee precision has 1/2 was price on a scale and press. do a search for lee precision closeouts. get sa set of 38/357mag dies at the same time. buy a good reloading manual. the lee one is ok. but the Lyman 50th is probably the gold standard. bullseye is a powder that will work well for 38 spl. but there are many powders that will work. primers are very difficult to find right now but any small pistol primer will work. those lee closeout items will probably sell out quick might want to do that without delay. the lee ram prime is cheap and will work with that press and lee dies should come with shell holder and a powder scoop. zero bullets though roze distributors are plenty good bullets for about as cheap as they come. you don't need a kinetic separator right away. 38 spl brass should be easy to come by either buy previously shot or starline brass is about the best and the cheapest.
theres always more but this should get your on the right track

[VariableRecall]

Thank you for the info!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most .38 brass would not be deformed by firing, so extra die sets that re-shape cases would not be needed, correct? I was looking at the Lee .38 Special dies earlier on Midway USA and there seems to be some deals on there.

If I could get links to certain items or websites of those manufacturers, that would be lovely too.

[farmbif]

yes resizing die in die set will reform the brass to correct size and punch out the old primer.
just checked for you and roze distributors currently has swaged 158 grain .358 bullets and previously fired 38 spl brass for real cheap cost.
keep in mind we are in the middle of a severe shortage of ammo and reloading stuff nationwide right now so a lot of times if you don't get something when you find it available you might not be able to get it.
im in no way affiliated with any of these places I mention. just trying to help you out

[Bazoo]

Welcome to the forum and reloading.

Here's a manual for you. It will explain the basic operations.

http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading%20Manuals/Lyman%20Reloading%20Handbook%20-%2048th%20Edition%20-%202002%20-%20ocr.pdf

[exile]

When I first started thinking about reloading, I went to my local library and checked out two books about reloading (not load data, just how to go about reloading) and read them both cover to cover before I bought a single piece of reloading equipment. I have not regretted that decision.

I would also say that .38 Special is a good choice for your first caliber.

If you are anything like me, you will spend too much time on the castboolit website learning from some of the most knowledgeable, generous people you will ever find anywhere!

Good luck and welcome aboard!

exile

[Outpost75]

The 10-5 is a good, sturdy gun. Mine shoots closest to the fixed sights with "full-charge" wadcutters using either the Remington 148-grain HBWC component bullets and 3.2 grains of Bullseye, 3.5 grains of 452AA or WST, or 4 grains of 231 or HP38 at 1.20" OAL. With cast double-end wadcutters similar to H&G #50 or Saeco #348 charges can be increased 0.2-0.3 grain, but doing so is not entirely necessary. These same charges are fine with common 158-grain SWC bullets at 1.40" OAL.

[Ozark mike]

Hi there! I'm Joe.
I'm a last time gun loaner and first time gun owner! I've had my share of good firearm experiences and now I've purchased my first piece all my own: A Smith and Wesson Model 10-5 from approximately 1969, off of Gunbroker.com.

267760

The finish is fairly beat up, but the internals are just great. Shot 36 rounds of PPU 130gr FMJ .38 Special through it no problem and collected all the brass. However, since I only have ONE box of .38 special with little to no chance to purchase a new box for any reasonable price, it seems to me that the best course of action is to figure out how to safely reload ammunition on a trim budget of both funds and interior space. I hope for all equipment to fit in a backpack or duffel bag, just to make sure it doesn't take too much space.

I'm looking to start reloading from just about square one. All I have is the recently shot brass in a plastic bag in the same state as it left the cylinder. I've done some research, but I'm a complete newcomer to this scene. my budget is around $300, the approximate price of 400 rounds of bulk .38 Special ammo these days.

Casting is out of the question since I live in an apartment (thankfully with a firearm friendly roommate), but I'm willing to purchase bullets from 3rd parties or larger companies. Thankfully, I live not too far from a Sporting goods store so some smaller items of reloading equipment can be conceivably be obtained without having to deal with online wait times or shipping.

Here's a short list of Items that I think I need for all of this to happen;

A reloading manual for .38 Special or more handgun cartridges. (not planning on reloading anything else for some time, hopefully brand agnostic) lyman 50th or lyman cast

Hand press OR single stage press (I want something portable and cheap. Willing to deal with a slow process) lee hand press

.38 Special press dies (Unsure which ones I need, could use some help with this.)lee 3 die set retails for around 30 bucks

Reloading tray (the kind to arrange ammunition in progress of assembly)block of wood with holes drilled to size

Powder funnels dollar store specials

Kinetic cartridge separator (one of those hammer thingys)

electronic or mechanical scale (hopefully portable)
Lee balance beamsafety scale
Primer press/extractor
ram prime Comes with lee hand press
Pistol primers/ .38 caliber handgun bullets

Am I missing anything here? Do you have any other resources handy that I can refer to to begin my hand-loading adventures? I'm only looking to load either SWC, LRN or FMJ with standard amount of oomph to them. I don't want to damage my revolver or hurt myself for obvious reasons. I'd Rather not pay extra for hollow-points or JHP.

If you have other tips regarding all of this, let me know as well.

Thank you

[Treetop]

Congratulations Joe! You couldn't have picked a better handgun in a better caliber, to start your reloading hobby with.
And welcome to the most friendly firearms forum on the Internet. Semper Fi, Treetop

[Walks]

Congrats on joining the Fraternity.

Lee has some great stuff at learner prices.
But if I had to depend on one of their scales.
I'd give up reloading after 60yrs+.
You can skimp on some things but never a scale.
I have 2 beam scales; a Redding and a RCBS Magnetic Dampening scale. The Redding is almost as old as I am. The RCBS MODEL 10-10 has served Me for 44yrs without a hitch.
So please buy a Quality Magnetic Dampening scale. Take care of them and they last forever.

[Ozark mike]

My lee is right on the money and ive owned it for many years now as far as i know all rcbs stuff made lately is chinese. If ya have doubts just use coins to proof a scale that is suspect

[VariableRecall]

Thank you very much for the item recommendations!

Here's to .38 special being in stock sometime by the end of the year!

[VariableRecall]

Congratulations Joe! You couldn't have picked a better handgun in a better caliber, to start your reloading hobby with.
And welcome to the most friendly firearms forum on the Internet. Semper Fi, Treetop

Here's a very important question:

Where exactly should I store powder in my place? I've got some shelf space but obviously I should keep it well away from food or ignition sources, or my clothing so that If I get swabbed at the airport they aren't going to give me the old TSA interview after detecting something out of place.

Also, I've got a fire extinguisher at home just in case things go sideways.

[Ozark mike]

Here is the lee reloader press on sale
https://leeprecision.com/factory-second-breech-lock-reloader-press.html



https://youtu.be/VNBlgCgmZPY

[Three44s]

Get 38/357 carbide dies.

Three44s

[Bazoo]

Store powder in your box of reloading stuff. It doesn't require special treatment. Keep it away from heat and spark, but it's not going to burst into flames or blow up all the sudden. It's not an issue around food, but the dust from primers and the residue from firing will cause some lead poisoning. It won't drop you dead or nothin, just wash your hands when done touching your guns and ammo. Wipe the table off with spic and span before eating if you reload or clean your gun there.

Everyone has heard the comments about blowing yourself up and so forth. That's bunk. Reloading is perfectly safe if you follow some basic things in the manual and use common sense.

Don't get only the Lyman cast manual by the way, it doesn't explain the reloading process. It's to be an addition to the reloading manual. Loadbooks USA one book one caliber manual is a good edition to your main manual. I like the Lyman, 48/49/50-whichever. I currently have the 49th.

[Winger Ed.]

Welcome to the addiction.

The only thing I could add would be to swing by the big box store, and get a couple of sturdy, and decent size 'C' clamps.

I found the big ones work well to hold the press on your dining room table.:bigsmyl2:

[JimB..]

To the OP, read the first few chapters of at least one reloading manual. The process isn’t difficult, but it takes a clear understanding to avoid dangerous mistakes.

Please add your location to your profile.

To everyone else, I’ve only once used a Lee Loader, but it seems like exactly the right tool for the OP. Less than $50 plus a pound of powder (bullseye), a brick of primers, and some cast or plated bullets and he’s got a good start. What do you think?

[Ozark mike]

The nice thing about the lee loaders/lyman 310s and lee/Buchanan hand press is they are extremely portable and can be used while sitting around a campfire out in the wilderness

[Bazoo]

The lee loader I would recommend except you'll set a few primers off during seating. Probably wont be acceptable in an apartment setting.

[fcvan]

Years ago, I picked up a Lee hand press and Lee 38 38/357 dies. I already had a full reloading setup but wanted a portable setup as well. The hand press is easy to set up and once your dies are wet up correctly you generally don't have to mess with them but you still need to check them and make sure.

Digital scales are reasonably priced and accurate. Kinetic pullers are rather inexpensive. The hand press comes with a powder funnel and the priming tool. The dies come with a powder scoop that will get the job done. Some folks make their own scoop from a 9mm or .380 casing which can be trimmed to suit your powder charge. Anyway, a press that fits in a shoe box has it's utility.

You did not list your location so it would be hard to say if other reloaders are near enough to show you the ropes and possibly cast boolits with/for you. Some guys do a 50/50 deal, you supply 10 lbs of lead, you get back 5 lbs of boolits. Folks can't sell you boolits they make because it requires licensing and a hefty annual tax to comply with regulations. Barter works quite well as there is no money involved.

My S&W is similar to yours, only it is a M13 Bull Barrel in .357 magnum. Love it, pretty much the most fun gun for recreation and sport. Oncefiredbrass.com is a resource for inexpensive brass. Powder right about now is sometimes scarce, I buy in 8 lb jugs and primers 5K at a time, I shoot a lot. Favorite boolit is a Lee 356-125 2R which actually casts fat at 358 diameter. Round boolits feed well with speed loaders, revolvers don't sling brass everywhere. Good luck, have fun, but do find someone who reloads to show you the ropes.

[Ozark mike]

Oh i didnt see it mentioned ya might pickup a 6in mic. The only reason i dont say calipers is because im good at getting grit in the rack and Clockwork and dont trust digital chinese crap. Kinda hard to mess up a 40 tpi c clamp

[VariableRecall]

The lee loader I would recommend except you'll set a few primers off during seating. Probably wont be acceptable in an apartment setting.

What should I do to avoid setting the primers off? just go for a smooth motion with the press itself?

[VariableRecall]

Oh i didnt see it mentioned ya might pickup a 6in mic. The only reason i dont say calipers is because im good at getting grit in the rack and Clockwork and dont trust digital chinese crap. Kinda hard to mess up a 40 tpi c clamp

By mic, you mean Micrometer, correct? That's to check diameters during the reloading process?

[Ozark mike]

Hes talking about lee loaders which use a hammer ill find a video jus a sec

[Ozark mike]

https://youtu.be/w4vPMhVwIg0

[Ozark mike]

Yes a micrometer. Youll find all kinds if uses for it dia. Coal. Ect a caliper will be needed for measuring inside cylinders cases ect so ya might pick those up too

[VariableRecall]

In the meantime, I'll go ahead and start working through that Lyman 48th Edition reloading manual, and picking out stuff for my cart in Midway USA.

[Bazoo]

What should I do to avoid setting the primers off? just go for a smooth motion with the press itself?


What I'm talking about is the Lee Classic Loader. It's a reloading die set that is used with a mallet. It will set off the primers occasionally. It doesn't hurt you but scares you half to death until you get used to it. This set is not the same thing as a reloading press and die set. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012833230?pid=459280

With a reloading press and die set you have to have a specific tool to reprime the casings and there is no chance to set one off. You could use a specific priming tool with the above mentioned set but that sort of defeats the purpose.

What I recommended for you is
Lee hand press kit, which will include a priming unit and funnel. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013017131?pid=650614

And a separate die set https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020799378?pid=418312

The lee die set will come with a shell holder and a powder scoop. You can use the scoop and chart and get by a while instead of buying a scale and powder measure. The scoop will offer you something on the order of a light charge of powder for your caliber. So for example let's say the min charge is 3 grains and max is 5, the scoop will throw 3.5 grains. The included chart shows you which powder and how much and offers bullet weight and style to use with it. It doesn't afford any variation but you don't need that to start.

Those are the only things you need to get started, including reading the manual I offered.

A pair of calipers is nice to have but not needed to start, and much more useful than a micrometer. A mic is not needed to reload, but calipers sometimes are.

If you're near me, I'll offer you a reloading lesson.

[Bazoo]

Might as well get one of these while your at it. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012835065?pid=467111 you'll need it after a few reloads on the same brass.

[Ozark mike]

And a case trimmer. The list never ends im to afraid to add up all my equipment Id probably run to the nearest cave and learn to throw a spear if i knew what my reloading equipment cost in total

[VariableRecall]

What I'm talking about is the Lee Classic Loader. It's a reloading die set that is used with a mallet. It will set off the primers occasionally. It doesn't hurt you but scares you half to death until you get used to it. This set is not the same thing as a reloading press and die set. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012833230?pid=459280

With a reloading press and die set you have to have a specific tool to reprime the casings and there is no chance to set one off. You could use a specific priming tool with the above mentioned set but that sort of defeats the purpose.

What I recommended for you is
Lee hand press kit, which will include a priming unit and funnel. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013017131?pid=650614

And a separate die set https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020799378?pid=418312

The lee die set will come with a shell holder and a powder scoop. You can use the scoop and chart and get by a while instead of buying a scale and powder measure. The scoop will offer you something on the order of a light charge of powder for your caliber. So for example let's say the min charge is 3 grains and max is 5, the scoop will throw 3.5 grains. The included chart shows you which powder and how much and offers bullet weight and style to use with it. It doesn't afford any variation but you don't need that to start.

Those are the only things you need to get started, including reading the manual I offered.

A pair of calipers is nice to have but not needed to start, and much more useful than a micrometer. A mic is not needed to reload, but calipers sometimes are.

If you're near me, I'll offer you a reloading lesson.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101119737?pid=309802
Would this die set be acceptable? It doesn't come with some of the other items, but it does come with more dies.

[Bazoo]

I don't have really that much invested in my equipment. But I run pretty simple. Two single stage presses, one being the lee hand press. About the only thing I've bought new was a Lee sizing die, a couple Lee moulds. Everything else I bought used, including the Lee magnum melter, two presses, my die sets, my RCBS moulds, my lubesizer.

I do use a Lyman universal trimmer, but I didn't buy it till I got into rifle loading and I had to trim cases. I DO trim 38 special brass now, but before that I just loaded it by brand or I measured it and loaded it by length. I wish I'd started trimming it with a lee trimmer set years ago.

[Ozark mike]

That kit comes with a factory crimp die some swears ya have to have em others swear at em. I myself never needed one. Its one of those things that ya can spring for but not necessary. One other thing if you use the fcd it can size oversize lead bullets down which may cause leading if you are shooting for larger bullets

[Bazoo]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101119737?pid=309802
Would this die set be acceptable? It doesn't come with some of the other items, but it does come with more dies.
That die set is identicle to the one I showed except it adds Lees carbide seat die. Personally I don't think it's needed. The purpose of it is to iron out any wrinkles from over crimping, or to size down an overly fat bullet to ensure chambering. You won't have overly fat bullets and if you learn to set your dies you won't buckle the case and cause wrinkles. The benefit of the die, is if you're running a progressive machine and making thousands of rounds in a batch, it'll catch a problem you wouldn't notice otherwise. It is nearly useless though if you're loading only hundreds on a single stage press.

Course all this is my opinion. Everyone loads in their own way with regards to some of the little stuff.

[VariableRecall]

That die set is identicle to the one I showed except it adds Lees carbide seat die. Personally I don't think it's needed. The purpose of it is to iron out any wrinkles from over crimping, or to size down an overly fat bullet to ensure chambering. You won't have overly fat bullets and if you learn to set your dies you won't buckle the case and cause wrinkles. The benefit of the die, is if you're running a progressive machine and making thousands of rounds in a batch, it'll catch a problem you wouldn't notice otherwise. It is nearly useless though if you're loading only hundreds on a single stage press.

Course all this is my opinion. Everyone loads in their own way with regards to some of the little stuff.

https://hoosierbullets.com/38-caliber-158-grain-swc-hi-tech-coated/

I'm looking at bullets recommended by the vendor sites in this forum, and I've found these Hi-Tek coated SWC bullets. Would these be acceptable for me starting out as a first timer? The general agreement among people is that you may need to be careful with the crimping to prevent the coating from sloughing off when they are pressed into the brass.
I really can't say no to a pile of bullets starting at $0.079 per bullet, AND it comes with a coating to help prevent my exposure to lead.

[VariableRecall]

Here's my current Midway USA Cart. I intend to grab some small things like a reloading tray if I'm short on anything in particular. This sure beats paying $300+ for ammo on Gunbroker, when I can invest in the potential to actually save a good deal of cash over time with the same wallet food. I'm also getting a Birthday Discount since my birthday's coming up.

Keep in mind I have NOT gone to checkout yet.

Lee Auto Prime Ergo Prime Hand Priming Tool

Lee Breech Lock Hand Press Kit

Lee Primer Pocket Cleaner

National Metallic Digital Caliper 6" Stainless Steel

Lyman Load Data Popular Revolver

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 38 Special, 357 Magnum

Lee Safety Balance Beam Mechanical Powder Scale 100 Grain Capacity

Stuff on Backorder:
Lee Auto Prime Hand Priming Tool Shellholder #1 (38 S&W, 38 Special, 357 Magnum) Glad I didn't forget that!

Starline Brass 38 Special Box of 100 (Bulk Packaged)


Let me know if there's anything that's missing, besides the bullets and primers themselves, of course. I can't find primers anywhere, might want to check out my local sporting goods store for pistol primers.

[Ozark mike]

I dont know if ya know this but i believe the ram prime comes with the hand press so no need to buy a hand primer unless its something you wanted just because.

[VariableRecall]

I dont know if ya know this but i believe the ram prime comes with the hand press so no need to buy a hand primer unless its something you wanted just because.

Oh thank you! That certainly saves me some money! I'll remove it from my cart, then.

Anything else that needs to be accounted for? I'm taking off for the night. I'll check in here tomorrow!

[JimB..]

Most load data is available online so I’d only buy a manual for the process information. If you have the Lyman 48th in pdf I think you can skip the lyman load data for revolvers.

Skip the primer pocket cleaner. BTW, the dirtiest part of the process is removing the fired primer, best done over a bucket.

Given the issues with primer availability I could ship you some sized and primed 38 special brass so all you’d need to do is expand, add powder (charge) and seat a bullet. I hate taking away part of learning the process, but I can’t ship primers except seated in brass. Send me a PM with an address if you’d like to take me up on this. I’ll also send you some unprimed brass so you can learn seating and crimping (I wouldn’t use the Lee Factory Crimp Die) with dummy cases.

If you are planning to measure each charge you’ll want a powder trickler. It’s slower than the scoop, but good to learn.

I’m sure that Inhave a spare #1 shell holder, but I don’t use the lee primer, can anyone tell me if they are specialin some way or will a regular one work?

[Wayne Smith]

Looks like you are set up to go - but get the manual first and read the first part about the reloading process and understand that. I don't know if Lee has changed their scale but the original scale was very limited and extremely sensitive - more than was necessary. RCBS 505 or similar - if available - is probably a better choice.

I loaded for years with everything in a salesman's case except components. I kept a couple C clamps, a small piece of pine, and grabbed a towel when I needed to reload. Towel on the dining room table, press on that, board under the table, and clamp the whole sandwich together and had a very stable loading platform. Load what was needed and pack the whole thing up and nobody could see that I had done it. I would add a pistol powder measure to your shopping list. Measuring every charge isn't necessary - especially for a revolver. Having a scale to set your measure is essential. I used a scale simply to confirm that my powder measure - dip, pistol powder measure, or RCBS measure - was accurate. I wanted to confirm and a reliable scale is the only way to do that.

Lee dies come with a shell holder, the only ones that do. Every other brand requires you to buy a shell holder separately. For years I cleaned primer pockets with an appropriately sized screw driver.

Think about why you want a portable setup. A press is the basis of the reloading set and is used to load and nothing more. To take it out to the range or camping is a romantic idea, but it's much easier to load your ammo at home and only bring the ammo! A solid press mounted to a bench or table is much easier and faster to use.

[Ozark mike]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?106715-Lee-Factory-Crimp-die-for-Handgun-Cartridges-and-Cast-Bullets

Ya might look at this press that they are talking about its 25 bucks. That hand press is awsome for when ya aint got something solid to mount a press to but it will never be what a bolted down press will be

[farmbif]

ive found the hand press to be a balancing act sometimes putting in powder and seating bullet. and the lee loader that uses a soft faced hammer is good if you only need to load limited ammo but to readily produce enough for meaningful range sessions a real loading press is the best way to go in my opinion. it has its uses but for someone just starting working on a table top with a real press won't get you discouraged and you will be able to produce ammo at a speed that won't be frustrating. out that 1/2 price press lee has right now will work for 38 spl. and is a great entry point to the hobby. there are a whole bunch of ways to go to start reloading but the one thing I think is most important is those chapters in a reloading book such as the Lyman or Hornady that explains how and why to do it properly and how to properly set up your dies.

[Bazoo]

I've never used any of the bullets you showed. I wouldn't be afraid to use them though if I had some. Never used bullets with that coating.

I'd drop the manual you had listed and get a copy of the Lyman 49 or 50 instead if you prefer a hard copy as to the PDF.

I'd drop the hand primer and associated shell holder too. The hand press has a ram prime with it. Personally I don't like the hand primers. They end up causing hand fatigue and aren't that much quicker.

I would get the primer pocket cleaning tool though because if you reload the same cases 6-7 times they will need cleaning.

I wouldn't be afraid of those calipers. I use a set of Chinese made RCBS calipers and am happy with them.

As for trimmers and tumblers and everything else you can get, they all have their place and use, but are not required to load 38 special. A year from now maybe you'll want to add various things, but for now the goal is to get you making cartridges without over complicating the process.

I don't have the third hand issue with the hand press. If you think you'd rather work with a bench mounted press, go for it. Get the lee ram prime to go with it.

[VariableRecall]

Here is my updated Cart for Midway USA:

Lee Breech Lock Hand Press Kit

Lee Primer Pocket Cleaner

National Metallic Digital Caliper 6" Stainless Steel

Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 38 Special, 357 Magnum

Lee Safety Balance Beam Mechanical Powder Scale 100 Grain Capacity


Lyman Pocket Touch 1500 Digital Powder Scale Kit 1500 Grain Capacity (New Item, to double check with the scale)

Lee Spline Drive Breech Lock Quick Change Bushing Package of 3 (To quickly change loading dies )

Frankford Arsenal Powder Trickler (New Item, to precisely deliver powder)

Stuff on Backorder:
None, The ring should be provided in the carbide set, and I'm arranging with a user to get some brass shipped to me.

I'd also prefer a reloading manual, if possible, in PDF form, since with character recognition I can easily search for stuff I need in there.
Should a case trimmer be necessary on a straight walled case like .38 special?

[Kosh75287]

If you get a powder measure (the thing that throws the same powder charge repeatedly, not the scale), get ANYTHING but LEE! I've ended up with 3 of them, and they were all miserable about consistency and "leaking" powder.
You can use your hand or bench press to prime cases, but I think you'll get tired of that, pretty rapidly. You should consider getting a hand-primer THAT USES THE SHELL HOLDER THAT GOES WITH YOUR DIES. I don't remember who, but there's some firm out there who sells an inexpensive hand-primer which requires the added expense of a set of "special shell holders" JUST for that mechanism. Not usable for ANY other reloading operation, and a P.I.T.A. to keep up with. Not worth the money saved. Pay a little extra & get the one that uses the shell holders that you must have, anyway.

At first, you WILL make mistakes. Don't worry about it. But DO get a kinetic bullet puller (known as a "WOOPS-hammer" in my circles) when you can. MOST of the goofs you make can be undone with one of these. The others will be few & far enough between that you can afford to discard a .38 case or two.

You don't really need a case-trimmer for straight-walled revolver cases. Trimming becomes a consideration mostly with bottle-necked rifle (and some pistol) rounds. I'm sure that some very high-level competition shooters may trim their .38 brass, but for the level of precision you seek, it's not a necessity. The only exception I can think of is if you inherit a bunch of .357 magnum brass & wish to trim them to .38 Spl. length. Even then, it might be easier to work a swap with a .357 owner.

[RKJ]

How much more brass do you need? I’ve got some PC’d bullets I could send and I can send a copy of Handloader’s article on the 38 Special they did some time ago. It’s got load data also. I don’t know if it’s still available but take a look at the PIF sub forum, not too long ago a user had Hornady’s 3rd edition to PIF. It’s old data but if you stay mid range it would serve you well.

[VariableRecall]

If you get a powder measure (the thing that throws the same powder charge repeatedly, not the scale), get ANYTHING but LEE! I've ended up with 3 of them, and they were all miserable about consistency and "leaking" powder.
You can use your hand or bench press to prime cases, but I think you'll get tired of that, pretty rapidly. You should consider getting a hand-primer THAT USES THE SHELL HOLDER THAT GOES WITH YOUR DIES. I don't remember who, but there's some firm out there who sells an inexpensive hand-primer which requires the added expense of a set of "special shell holders" JUST for that mechanism. Not usable for ANY other reloading operation, and a P.I.T.A. to keep up with. Not worth the money saved. Pay a little extra & get the one that uses the shell holders that you must have, anyway.
.

So you're saying to put the Lee Ergonomic Primer Press back into the cart, then? The good thing is that I believe I could use the shell holder in my carbide die set for the ergonomic press. I've found a Kinetic Bullet Puller and put that in my cart as well.

[Wayne Smith]

I have been reloading since I was 16 years old (now 67) and have never used a powder trickler. First they are needed for large stick powders that do not flow through a powder measure easily, not for pistol powders. Second, I have loaded very many rifle loads with long stick powders and always used my fingers to add a few grains of powder to the scale pan. I've never had a missfire. I consider them completely unnecessary.

The pistol powders you will be loading all flow through a powder measure well except Unique. Be careful with Unique because it has a tendency to bridge in powder measures.

I will admit that I am handy and tend to fix things, but most of my reloading gear has been purchased used. Of course I was an experienced reloader when I bought that stuff. I started with a Lee Loader - the one you pound to load. I then bought an RCBS Jr3 and used it for years, along with an RCBS powder measure, scale and their mount to mount the powder measure to the press. This is the outfit that I used for years clamping it to the dining room table.

[JimB..]

I agree with Wayne Smith, you can “trickle” with your fingers if the budget is tight and you don’t need to do it at all for pistol.

The bigger issue is how do you want to measure powder. For most powders appropriate for 38spcl a scoop is adequate. Play with it and your powder, dumping it on the scale and keep repeating until you’re comfortable with the consistency. You can certainly weigh each charge, but you don’t want to trickle a full charge because it’ll take forever. Most folks use a powder measure, you set it up once and then every time you activate it, it drops the same amount of powder.

The powder measure is convenient, but more cost and more space, I’d encourage you to get the Lee scoops and work with them. I suggested the powder trickler thinking that you wanted to weigh each charge, but you’re better off avoiding that, so drop it and add the scoops.

[Ozark mike]

I recommend getting the bare essentials for getting started untill you decide wether ya like it or not i imagine not everyone keeps with it and buying new tools if you try to sell em you will take a loss just something to think about you can always buy more stuff later like powder throwers and special tools. Wouldn't want to see ya learn how to swim on the deep side

[VariableRecall]

I agree with Wayne Smith, you can “trickle” with your fingers if the budget is tight and you don’t need to do it at all for pistol.
I’d encourage you to get the Lee scoops and work with them. I suggested the powder trickler thinking that you wanted to weigh each charge, but you’re better off avoiding that, so drop it and add the scoops.

To be honest I'd prefer to keep my bare hands away from as much powder as possible to avoid residue buildup on my hands. I'd rather not trickle.

Considering that a powder trickler acts as both a precise way to add powder AND keeps my hands away from direct contact makes it worth putting in my budget.
I'm forgoing the powder measure because of space reasons, and the fact that these loads are so small (generally around 3 to 5 grains) A scoop would be all I need for coarse powder measuring, and a trickler for fine powder measuring. I feel that I can make a good rhythm of dumping a scoop, then trickling to the exact amount I need.

Also, I've been looking through that Lyman's 48th manual, and online and it seems to me that Winchester 231 Smokeless Powder seems to be the most popular and recommended for .38 Special and other handgun ammunition. Anyone else have opinions on that?

One more thing of note:
My current cart is 222.60 before taxes.
I am saving 127.31 in total with the Birthday discount compared to the listed MSRP for the items.
That's 57% off my order! Neato!

[gwpercle]

Get the Lee Hand Press KIT ...it has some extra's you will need like a press primer seating tool, powder funnel , case lube ... included

Get a set of Lee Dies , 4 die set , they come with a shell holder and powder scoop .
I still use scoops often to measure powder, simple , safe and accurate way to dispense powder and you don't have to touch the powder .

Get a Lee Universal Case Expanding Die if you plan to load lead bullets , cast lead or coated lead ... you will need to expnd the case mouth to insert the softer larger lead bullets ... Trust me these are handy to have .

Gary

[VariableRecall]

Get the Lee Hand Press KIT ...it has some extra's you will need (eliminates all that pesky hammering)
Gary
Here's the Lee hand press Kit that I have in my cart right now. this looks like the one you're talking about.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013017131?pid=650614

[farmbif]

wow was just on lee precision site, they have real single stage press on scratch and dent price of only $40, includes priming set up from what I read of it.
that's a sweet deal considering the shortages currently on many retailers sites

[VariableRecall]

wow was just on lee precision site, they have real single stage press on scratch and dent price of only $40, includes priming set up from what I read of it.
that's a sweet deal considering the shortages currently on many retailers sites

I was more interested in taking advantage of Midway's prices and their free shipping. I'm not sure about shipping on Lee's website.

[Bazoo]

There is no reason to be concerned about touching powder. It's not toxic. Lead is toxic, and primers have a lead compound in them, and bullets of course have lead in them. Anytime you fire a gun, the residue has lead in it. Lead is ingested or inhaled, but not absorbed through skin. You can wear nitrile gloves when reloading, or you can just wash your hands after you handle your reloading stuff, ammo, and guns, but it's not the powder you need to be concerned about.

W231 is a good powder for 38 special, and a good powder for any standard pistol cartridge in general. It's not a fickle powder, and offers you ease of metering.

[VariableRecall]

W231 is a good powder for 38 special, and a good powder for any standard pistol cartridge in general. It's not a fickle powder, and offers you ease of metering.

Great to know! I just want to make sure that I get a minimum amount of residue on things as I work.

Also, what strategies should I use to clean my brass cases? I don't want a tumbler and I'm not worried about the cartridges looking pretty, I just want to make sure that they aren't going to be a problem during cartridge assembly. I'm thinking of getting a sacrificial colander and some dish soap for this one.

[Bazoo]

You don't have to clean your cases. Just wipe the dirt off with a rag. You can use citric acid to clean okay without tumbling, so I'm told; I've not done it yet. I have a tumbler, but I have plenty of times in the past and continue to load cases that aren't shiny. You can use a little steel wool or scotchbrite to clean a spot if it offends.

If I get a little verdigris or dull spot in the extractor groove (from brass that's set outside) I remove it with my bronze toothbrush.

[Ozark mike]

Or ya can just throw em in a old laundry bag then throw em in the washer.

[VariableRecall]

Or ya can just throw em in a old laundry bag then throw em in the washer.

I've got a feeling my landlord would not like that.
Would soaking the cartridges (primer free of course) in a gallon bag with a good amount of Dawn, and giving the mixture a couple of hours, and then drying the lot of them for a couple of days work as well? That way, I can keep using my sink while the cartridges stew in Dawn?

[Ozark mike]

Just wiping em off will be good enuf ya just dont want to get grit in yore resizing die

[Bazoo]

Washing them with dawn will do nothing. Unless they have mud or sand on them it's a total waste of time. Now, I advise you to try it if you're curious.

[David2011]

And a case trimmer. The list never ends im to afraid to add up all my equipment Id probably run to the nearest cave and learn to throw a spear if i knew what my reloading equipment cost in total

In 40 years I’ve never needed to trim a straight walled handgun cartridge.

I would suggest getting .357 Magnum dies instead of .38 Special. You can load .38s with .357 dies but not the other way around.

The pieces you’ve listed are a good start. When you get tired of the hand press everything you have will transfer to the Lee presses with the breech lock bushings. I’ve been using the Hornady version of those bushings for over 10 years and love them. They aren’t “necessary” but they sure are handy.

[jj850]

you don't need two scales to start. Either will work for powder but the lyman has capacity to weigh bullets or loaded cartridges and digital is easier to use if you keep it calibrated and zeroed. .357dies will load .38 and if you get a .357 later you already have dies. A 3 die set is all you need on a single stage press the 4th die works best on a progressive press. Almost forgot The lee powder dipper that comes with the dies will through consistent enough to replace a powder measure for a basic setup especially with powders like 231. just be sure verify the actual weight with a scale, and the set of lee dippers is cheep

[Treetop]

Here's a very important question:

Where exactly should I store powder in my place? I've got some shelf space but obviously I should keep it well away from food or ignition sources, or my clothing so that If I get swabbed at the airport they aren't going to give me the old TSA interview after detecting something out of place.

Also, I've got a fire extinguisher at home just in case things go sideways.

Joe, for over 50 years, I have kept my stash of reloading powders either on the floor of our master bedroom closet or on the floor under the bed. Wherever you choose to keep yours, make sure that it stays relatively cool and dry. Heat (above room temperature) and high humidity are the two biggest enemies of smokeless reloading powder.

The following link is a PDF, provided by SAAMI, for the safe storage of powder. Hope this helps! TreeTop

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder.pdf

[Bazoo]

Do you regularly go to the airport? Do they swab folks for gun residue? If you take a shower and wear clean close before you got airporting, wouldnt that be sufficient?

I ain't ever been to the airport so maybe my questions are common knowledge to the average air traveller.

[Ozark mike]

In 40 years I’ve never needed to trim a straight walled handgun cartridge.


This is partly true with the exception i have bought brand new brass resized it to find it was a little on the long side so i trim all brand new brass to spec before i reload this way they are uniform for the crimp die
Not to mention the cases that headspace on the case mouth this step is critical

[Bazoo]

I trim all my revolver brass for consistency.

I haven't trimmed any auto brass such as 45 acp yet. I've not measured much of it but found the taper crimp will adapt to varied case lengths. I have been running mixed headstamp brass, but I plan to sort and trim a batch for self defense rounds, should I ever be able to acquire some jacketed hollow points.

[Wayne Smith]

If you want clean cases and don't care about shiny get some citric acid. A dilute citric acid bath not only cleans the brass but it chemically stabilizes it. You can find citric acid in the canning section of your grocery or hardware store and it is cheap. There is a long sticky somewhere here on citric acid cleaning - it's worth the read when you have some time.

I haven't trimmed pistol brass - and have fired a lot of 38 Special, 357 Mag, 44 Mag. When I started loading for the 45Auto I measured brass and found them all short - so I have never trimmed any of them either.

[JimB..]

Do you regularly go to the airport? Do they swab folks for gun residue? If you take a shower and wear clean close before you got airporting, wouldnt that be sufficient?

I ain't ever been to the airport so maybe my questions are common knowledge to the average air traveller.

It isn’t a problem, even if you don’t shower or change clothes, at least it hasn’t been for me.

The EOD guys get stopped from time to time, but that’s not smokeless powder.

[Ozark mike]

Do you regularly go to the airport? Do they swab folks for gun residue? If you take a shower and wear clean close before you got airporting, wouldnt that be sufficient?

I ain't ever been to the airport so maybe my questions are common knowledge to the average air traveller.

I didnt see this. I havent flown since i was a snot nosed kid in the military. Im too poor if i need to go somewhere i just hop in my car 55mpg is a whole lot cheaper than a plane ticket. Besides i rince out the washer.

[VariableRecall]

I've ordered the current items in my cart in Midway USA! The items should make their way to my place in about a week.

I need to check with my local sporting goods store if they have Winchester 231, they should, but I need to head over there anyways to pick up miscellaneous supplies.
I've also grabbed some cheap plastic containers salvaged from resealable lunch meat packages from my pantry for use in organizing brass and their various states of preparedness.

With regards to the airport swabbing. In my personal experience, in major airports the TSA swabs the hands of people, usually an individual from those who travel in groups, to test them for any explosive residue on their hands. I'd assume they are more specifically looking for residue from plastic explosives as they are more portable for terrible people. Remarkably, it seems like my mom of all people has been swabbed for explosives the most when we were traveling. I'd assume that it would take a couple of weeks for all traces of explosive residue to leave your hands, but i'd rather not push my luck if my folks need to take me somewhere and that might lead to me having some serious talk with the security people.

Fun fact, when I was like 10, a guy on the FBI most wanted list used my name as a pseudonym, which meant that I was put on the no-fly list most of the time until my parents had to clear it up with security that a wanted criminal in question couldn't possibly be a little kid. Delayed our departures for years until the baddie was caught.

Otherwise, I've had good experiences flying as a passenger. Helps to reach family that you can't often get to easily.

[jimlj]

Hi there! I'm Joe.

Hey Joe, I haven't read this whole thread, perhaps you already have some dies by now. If not I'd be happy to gift you a set of RCBS steel 38/357 dies. You will have to lube the cases when resizing, but they will get you started and they work great. If I had found Hornady one shot lube 35 years ago I may have never bought a set of carbide dies. Send me a PM if you want/need them.

I bought a set of Lee carbide 357 dies and have loaded thousands of rounds with them. The Lee dies and presses may not be as good (perhaps I should say refined) as other brands, but I have quite a few different sets of Lee dies and for the price they can't be beat. I recently replaced my single stage RCBS press with a Lee turret press and can't really say anything bad about it either.

[fcvan]

Jim, don't sell yourself short on the Lee Turret press, I own 2. My original eventually wore out after several 100k rounds loaded. I merely bought the replacement parts and it sort of upgraded as well. The second press hasn't seen as much use as the first as I have it at my second home, but do most of my casting/reloading at the first. I pretty much had to duplicate all of my dies and molds except the ones my neighbor shot.

When I set up the second press he wanted to learn. He took to reloading quite well, but hasn't done any casting. He is actually 'babysitting' the second press and portable reloading station. Think table top added to a 'workmate' type folding work bench. As far as steel dies, I learned on those. I still have to lube rifle cases and worked around that. Plastic jug (peanuts) with screw on lid, dribble some vegetable oil in the jug and shake. Hot soapy (Dawn cuts grease!) rinse followed by a second soapy rinse with some lemon juice. 5 or so minutes later, I strain and dump straight into the polisher with ground walnut and a tablespoon of Turtle Zip Wash. The wet brass causes the walnut to to swell and lose the smoothness.

Brass is shiny and dry in about an hour, Zip wash has a bit of wax that seals the pores of the brass, stopping oxidization. I' was given a box of factory 308 brass by my brother when I bought my M1A. Still unfired, the factory brass has oxidized, my reloads of the same age are still pristine. Still, your generous off to the OP is commendable, even though an earlier post indicated he had just ordered his gear earlier today. I love this site, best bunch of folks I have associated with.

[VariableRecall]

I'd be happy to gift you a set of RCBS steel 38/357 dies.

I've already purchased the 4 pack of Lee dies, but thank you for the offer. They say the carbide dies that I had purchased don't need any case lubricant, so I had opted for that.

[Wayne Smith]

Last time I was swabbed at the airport was within a week of loading some rifle rounds and it did not tag me. I guess washing your hands well works.

[Ozark mike]

I've already purchased the 4 pack of Lee dies, but thank you for the offer. They say the carbide dies that I had purchased don't need any case lubricant, so I had opted for that.

I still lube my cases used in the carbide dies it reduces the forces on the press which in turn gives greater life to working parts. But who knows I've been called difficult before

[VariableRecall]

Last time I was swabbed at the airport was within a week of loading some rifle rounds and it did not tag me. I guess washing your hands well works.

Thank you for the info man, I'll be sure to keep my hands clean either way.

One last thing; is there ANYWHERE that I can get small pistol primers for a reasonable price? Keep in mind people on Gunbroker selling then at $0.50 a primer doesn't count. I'm talking their regular prices that they are normally expected to go for. If not, well, there's a reason why it's called a global shortage. I'd be willing to buy them off someone here using PayPal at a price of 4 cents per-primer plus around half of shipping, if possible.

[JimB..]

Talking about lubing, you’re using a hand press so won’t have the leverage of a regular press. If you find it really hard to size the brass using a little lube will help a lot.

Lay the brass out flat, I use a cookie sheet or a box top, and give them a quick mist with hornady one shot. Once the ammo is loaded just wipe them off with an old rag.

[Big Tom]

Go to a local range and ask the Range Safety Officer if you can take some fired brass out of their container - if so, fill your bag, sort them at home and trade the ones you have no use for for bullets.
I think your biggest challenge will be finding primers.
Good luck, enjoy the reloading and FOLLOW THE RECIPES in the load manuals and don't substitute components... and yes, it is normal to be nervous when shooting your first own loads - but if you still have all your fingers after that, you'll be hooked ;-)

[VariableRecall]

Go to a local range and ask the Range Safety Officer if you can take some fired brass out of their container - if so, fill your bag, sort them at home and trade the ones you have no use for for bullets.
I think your biggest challenge will be finding primers.
Good luck, enjoy the reloading and FOLLOW THE RECIPES in the load manuals and don't substitute components... and yes, it is normal to be nervous when shooting your first own loads - but if you still have all your fingers after that, you'll be hooked ;-)

Understood mister! I'd never want to hurt my newly acquired revolver or myself in this quest to get a good price per bullet.

Would it be weird to rummage through their spent brass to look for .38 special?

[Bazoo]

Weird to scrounge brass, LOL. No. Any self respecting reloader throws all shame aside for an increase in the stash.

38 special is one of the easiest and safest cartridges to load for. There is a fair amout of air space in the case. If you start with the starting load for amount of powder, and use a bullet of the same weight as your data, you're generally safe.

[pls1911]

Friends cant believe it, but two of my favorite guns are old model 10s.
The first was my first centerfire revolver. I traded a chevy 327 block for it. It's not in bad shape for its age and is a good shooter.
The second was an Aunt's father's service gun, having obviouly bee carried inside the belt on many sweaty days. the left side is a bit worn and micro pitted, but not really rusty. The curious thing about this gun is that it appears to have been sawed off, reducing the barrel the about 3.5" with NO crown, and the knife-blade-thin sight was set back and soldered, obscuring some of the roll marking. The barrel bore is badly pitted, like a asphalt road.
BUT that little gun remains a TACK DRIVER with 158 graing SWC at 750-800 fps. The ugly little bugger shoots and is a hoot every time it goes out.

Your piece will give you a lifetime of enjoyment at moderate cost. You made a good buy.

[VariableRecall]

Your piece will give you a lifetime of enjoyment at moderate cost. You made a good buy.

I actually got my Model 10 for only $450 plus tax. Considering that the internals are great, even the bore is nice and clean with well defined lands and grooves! I'll be able to enjoy it for years to come! That sure is an interesting modification for your revolver. Maybe its previous owner was a couple steps ahead of being tacticool? Not sure how you would remediate the barrel damage without visiting a gunsmith. I don't think asking him to make the same modification to a perfectly usable barrel would be a reasonable thing to ask...

[Scott.M]

I have 2, 4, 5 and 6 inch Model 10's along with several 4 inch 64's. They are my favorite handgun by a factor of 10.

[VariableRecall]

I have 2, 4, 5 and 6 inch Model 10's along with several 4 inch 64's. They are my favorite handgun by a factor of 10.

I got the 4 incher because its length is just right for me. Not a fan of snubbies, and while the 5 incher was more popular for police departments and the like, it's just a little bit too long for my tastes. Fits better in a safe at 4 inches. My Midway shipment should come by around Wednesday, and I'm excited to get started.

[VariableRecall]

If you start with the starting load for amount of powder, and use a bullet of the same weight as your data, you're generally safe.

I have one really big problem here: I live in an apartment and my lease states that I should "abide by the following rules and regulations":

"No paints, oils, gasoline or any flammable or environmentally hazardous materials are permitted in the apartments or storage areas. Site manager will be informed of, and have approval over, oxygen tanks in units."

"Fireworks or explosives of any type are prohibited on the property. This includes apartment units, common areas, parking areas, lawns, entrances."

I have a can of Goof-Off in my supply closet, and some cooking spray in my place, but no one's ever kicked down my door to search for flammable materials. They did make an inspection of the premises and were pleased with it, earlier. Guess they didn't find the Goof Off.

I checked the regulations, and apparently smokeless powder is officially designated as a "Flammable", which still lies in the realm of hairspray and cooking oil.

How exactly do I ask my landlord about this? I have no idea how gun-friendly they may be. I think i may want to bring up Cooking Oil or Goo-Gone (which I have in my place) and ask if those two items are OK. Maybe I should ask about some other common flammable material?

If I don't pull this off right I may have to cancel my plans until I eventually move out.

[Outpost75]

My suggestion is that you should keep only a small quantity of powder on hand, maybe a couple pounds of powder and not more than 1000 primers and store these in your vehicle, kept in a picnic cooler until needed. Vehicle storage must be short-term only, as summer heat deteriorates powder. Store larger quantities off site with a friend having a single-family residence to top off your short-term vehicle storage as needed.

Bring only one can of powder and a few hundred primers into the apartment only as needed for loading, and return the unused portion to the cooler in your vehicle trunk when finished loading. This avoids having to ask for your landlord's blessing on a subject he knows little about.

Once you get your own place, then NFPA-495 applies and that is the guidance that your homeowner's insurance will go by.

[Outpost75]

Last time I was swabbed at the airport was within a week of loading some rifle rounds and it did not tag me. I guess washing your hands well works.

Being in an indoor range where other people are firing will deposit enough GSR on your clothing to set off the alarms! After shooting, bag your range clothes and put into the laundry for washing and decon. After showering, washing your hair and scrubbing your hands well, then change into clean clothes. If firing a revolver use a medical scrub brush with soap and water on your hands and fingernails!

When cleaning your daily carry firearm wear medical exam gloves to avoid transferring lead residues and GSR onto your hands. All SOP for industrial hygiene in the "frequent flier" Federal LE community these days.

[Bazoo]

You still havent read the manual have you? Questions like that are answered in the Lyman manual. Powder and primers are as safe to handle as cooking oil and sugar.

In my previous comments, I mean, not safety in your house during reloading, but of pressure In the finished cartridges so you do not damage your gun.

Don't mention it to the landlord until you have the confidence to explain the nature of every aspect and the safety procedures inherent to making ammunition responsibly. If two years from now they find out, you will be able to explain it in such a manner to relieve doubts, whereas you could not now as you're still in the "worried about blowing yourself up" phase.

[VariableRecall]

My suggestion is that you should keep only a small quantity of powder on hand, maybe a couple pounds of powder and not more than 1000 primers and store these in your vehicle, kept in a picnic cooler until needed. Vehicle storage must be short-term only, as summer heat deteriorates powder. Store larger quantities off site with a friend having a single-family residence to top off your short-term vehicle storage as needed.



Unfortunately, there's a clause that states that the "Explosives" categories extend to vehicles and the parking lot. However, Smokeless Powder is a "Flammable" and not an explosive. I don't have other students that I trust enough to keep my powder in their place. I really don't want to place my powder in a non-climate controlled area in the first place. My powder is stored in a place well away from the floor heaters in the apartment and far apart from wherever I will store my powder.

I have only bought a single pound of powder, but considering that it only takes 4 or so grains to get a cartridge up to speed, I have more than 1,500 charges at my disposal at the moment.
This issue has also caught my dad's attention, who's probably going to force the issue and "confiscate" it before I even begin the hobby. That is, as long as I'm in this apartment. I can best describe him as a "closeted conservative"; a guy that has to appear more liberal around his professional group for his job but was raised conservative.

I'm planning on proving that there's absolutely no reasonable way to purchase ammo at a regular price. I've already talked to every Cabela's in my own state and even in Idaho, and they are all out of .38. I've got hundreds of listings on hand to prove that the only place to purchase ammunition is going to be somewhere that sells it for wholly unreasonable prices on places like Gunbroker (Ironically, the same place where I got my Model 10 for an excellent price). Even primers are being sold for scam level prices.

Considering the ammunition shortages occurring right now, I don't think that things are going to get any better for over a year. I just want to convince him that this is the only way I can get enough ammunition to train and protect myself wherever I find work once I graduate.

[Wayne Smith]

Wow, with a list like that you might not want to mention to the management that sugar has been used as rocket fuel!

[Mr_Sheesh]

You could invite him to discuss his concerns with us here; Point out that reloading is legal and quite popular among shooters due to low cost and high quality of the resulting rounds. If they have other concerns, find out what they are? And you're a grown adult so it's your house, your choices, right? (I'll admit to being a little hard over on that point due to having had problems with a thieving family member who also wanted to run my life etc.)

[VariableRecall]

And you're a grown adult so it's your house, your choices, right? (I'll admit to being a little hard over on that point due to having had problems with a thieving family member who also wanted to run my life etc.)

I'm 25, actually. Turns out when I had discussed reloading with him earlier, perhaps he didn't realize that I actually got reloading equipment at the ready to use. He won't be back for a while, so that imminent threat of not being able to reload is through. Thank goodness. I did tell him about how much you would get scammed by less than scrupulous people online if I were to get ammo from auctions.

I believe that I should be able to get started, slowly and carefully with my newly purchased equipment.

Also talked with the landlord, and hypothetically, I'm not supposed to have gunpowder in here, but, how are they doing to find out when it's in a cool, dark place far away from any heat sources?

[jimlj]

I think you are over thinking this. Reload your ammo and keep quiet about it.

[VariableRecall]

I think you are over thinking this. Reload your ammo and keep quiet about it.

Good idea! Will do! If he doesn't know, the better! When I move out, I can just tell him I got the goods over a period of time to PREPARE myself for reloading.

[farmbif]

your loading 38 spl with 158 gr cast bullets. correct? get 2000 pc brass 2000 bullets, 2000 primers a pound of bullseye, load em all up, and is there any rule you can't own a gun and ammo?

[VariableRecall]

your loading 38 spl with 158 gr cast bullets. correct? get 2000 pc brass 2000 bullets, 2000 primers a pound of bullseye, load em all up, and is there any rule you can't own a gun and ammo?

There's technically no reason why I shouldn't have a firearm. That's exactly why I got it. I've gotten some brass from two very generous users, even some primed cases! However, those primed cases are the ONLY primers I have available and there's no way in the world that I'm going to get scalped on Gunbroker paying $120 plus Hazmat shipping for 1000 primers there. I also purchased 650ish 158 grain SWC cast bullets coated with Hi-Tek. Just a Flate Rate box packed to the brim with bullets. My Midway USA box with all of my ammunition supplies came through as well, so technically I have everything I need to start for the first 100 cartridges.

I'd say my only option is to ask users for some Small Pistol primers and compensate them on Paypal if they would prefer that method of transaction.

[Scott.M]

This entire thread is weird.

[VariableRecall]

This entire thread is weird.

I'm very thankful to start out on the right foot with all the advice and help you all have given me. Now, to desperately search for Small Pistol Primers at a reasonable price!

Once I start to get the hang of this, I will definitely post pictures of my setup and results, but it may be a while until I get to the range or begin assembling my first ready to roll cartridge.

[Scott.M]

SR will work too

[VariableRecall]

SR will work too

You mean Small Rifle? Can anyone else confirm that they would work as well? I'd rather not learn the hard way as a first time re-loader. I've got a very kind landlord to keep in good standing with.

[Outpost75]

SR will work too

If your revolver will set them off. Most police service handguns with factory-stock actions "should", but any having after-market, reduced power mainsprings, bobbed hammers or other mods which reduce hammer arc throw or striker energy may cause misfires. Hammerless coil-sring S&W J-frames are liable to misfire with SRs right out of the box.

The only way to be sure is to fire 100 rounds of your carry ammunition in double-action mode. If it runs 100% with no drips or errors call it good. But if you get even ONE misfire, don't use that ammo.

The US government and the ammunition manufacturers all have an allowable misfire rate of about one in a million. This is assuming that the primers were properly loaded, stored (not exposed to heat, cold, moisture, oil etc.) In reality the ignition rate is much better than this, but one in a million is a nice round number to presume. An explosives engineer at Picatinny arsenal told me ten years ago in the previous year of in-house QA testing of conventionally-primed (non-electric) ammunition of cal. .50 and below from the combined efforts of government labs and government-supervised contractor testing they had experienced five misfires in 15,500,000 rounds that were not attributable to ignition mechanics, equating to one in three million plus rounds.

[VariableRecall]

If your revolver will set them off. Most police service handguns with factory-stock actions "should", but any having after-market, reduced power mainsprings, bobbed hammers or other mods which reduce hammer arc throw or striker energy may cause misfires. Hammerless coil-sring S&W J-frames are liable to misfire with SRs right out of the box.


As far as I know the mainspring and hammer are stock. From the brass I've shot with factory ammo (about 36 rounds) The hammer slams into the primers with gusto, leaving a hefty dent in the primer case after firing. This fella's a Model 10 K-frame.

Should I get a smaller portion (about 100 primers) of Small Rifle Primers as a sort of trial run if I find any for a good price?

If this experiment does not work, how exactly could I safely extract the bad primers considering that they would be LIVE as I attempt to remove them?

[Bazoo]

Small pistol, small pistol magnum, and small rifle primers are all the same size. The thickness of the metal used to make the cup is different in rifle vs pistol primers, with rifle being thicker to withstand higher rifle primers.

You can use rifle primers in handgun cartridges if that's all that's available. You can decap live primers as you would spent primers. There is a small chance they will go off during decapping. I've decapped 100+ live primers and not had one go off. But knowing they could, I'm prepared.

If I couldn't get small pistol primers, I'd use small pistol magnum if available.

[VariableRecall]

If I couldn't get small pistol primers, I'd use small pistol magnum if available.

I know for a fact that I should not be using +P rounds in my Model 10-5. The barrel is its original size and pinned in place, so I don't want to over pressure the fella.

how much would magnum primers affect pressure?

[Outpost75]

I know for a fact that I should not be using +P rounds in my Model 10-5. The barrel is its original size and pinned in place, so I don't want to over pressure the fella.

how much would magnum primers affect pressure?

Magnum primers will be perfectly OK as long as you stay 10% below published maximum loads, this is about a 0.3-0.4 grain charge reduction in .38 Special with fast-burning powders like Bullseye, TiteGroup, W231, HP38 etc. I use 3.2 grains of Bullseye with magnum primers and a cast 148 DEWC at 1.20" cartridge OAL vs. 3.5 grains for a standard-pressure, but "full-charge" wadcutter load.

[VariableRecall]

Magnum primers will be perfectly OK as long as you stay 10% below published maximum loads, this is about a 0.3-0.4 grain charge reduction in .38 Special with fast-burning powders like Bullseye, TiteGroup, W231...

I have 1lb of Winchester 231 powder, so I'll be certain to keep that in mind. I think I may create a thread somewhere else asking for an offer of primers so long as they can take paypal.

[JimB..]

The OP is as green as the grass, all he knows is that he wants to reload, he’s just figuring out which end of the case the powder goes in. All the talk about going off book with other primers is not good for him. He has 100 primed cases, coach him on getting from there to a safe load with his w231, encourage him to read the front of a reloading manual and ask questions. There are guys that reload for years and never go off book, here you’re recommending it to a guy who hasn’t loaded a single round.

He has one primer (CCI SPP), one powder (w231), one bullet (I forget) and one reloading manual (maybe lyman 46). Please encourage him to do well with those components before experimenting.

Sorry for being bitchy, I know that all ya’ll are just trying to be helpful and that swapping primers and rebuilding a load is, like everything else I suppose, safe when done wisely.

[farmbif]

I'm with jimb on this.
probably best to stick with small pistol primers. 231 is a ball powder so small pistol magnum primers is not out of the question but is probably not needed in 38 special he's not in the arctic or anything like that. and current load data from winchester doesn't call for magnum primer in 38spl loads
ive got an old smith and Wesson model 10 and I'm pretty darn careful to keep the loads I shoot in it below the +P level. its a lot of fun to shoot and prevents any wear and tear.

[VariableRecall]

Sorry for being bitchy, I know that all ya’ll are just trying to be helpful and that swapping primers and rebuilding a load is, like everything else I suppose, safe when done wisely.

I'm testing out and seating the various Lee Carbide dies in the hand press, and the Sizing Die's decapper has been slid upward after a poor attempt of de-priming. (my first one). I don't have a 3/4's wrench but i did have some channeled pliers that fit around it. Just about how much force do I need to get that decapping pin reset?

[VariableRecall]

If I may also add, I'm practicing the fit and finish of the die work with UN-PRIMED and EMPTY brass, (Can't size right now because the primer puncher is down for the count at the moment). So, I'm testing the fit and expansion that doesn't harm or scrape off the Hi-Tek finish, as well as trying to fit the bullet, and finding a crimp that is mostly flush while seating the bullet right in the exact place it needs to be every time.

I may not have the first step running, but I'm certainly going to move through the rest before I trust the job with brass filled with powder.

[Bazoo]

You have to get the lee decapping rod fairly tight. You won't be able to break it.

[JimB..]

What Bazoo said, far too tight for you to be holding the die in one hand and tightening it with channel locks in the other.

[VariableRecall]

far too tight for you to be holding the die in one hand and tightening it with channel locks in the other.

Would a pair of vice grips in one hand and adding leverage with a lengthened ratchet on the decapping screw work? Right now the pin is resting above that screw, and currently that makes the pin stick out far below where it needs to in order to completely punch out the pin.

In other news, I did manage to get to within 0.006 inches of my intended Cartridge overall length with the adjustment I've been making with the Seating/Crimping die.
Basically, I'm taking empty brass that I've widened and just seating them with a sacrificial bullet since they are getting pretty beat up by this process. Thankfully I've got hundreds more. I'd much rather repeatedly pull and re-seat cartridges that don't have any powder in them.

[farmbif]

might want to go to a pawn shop that has bins of loose tools and get a couple wrenches that will fit rather than marring your new dies with vice grips and pliers

[VariableRecall]

might want to go to a pawn shop that has bins of loose tools and get a couple wrenches that will fit rather than marring your new dies with vice grips and pliers

That might be a smart move. I've got a thrift store nearby I could visit before heading to the hardware store. I'm certain I'll be able to find some of what I need before heading to somewhere a little more expensive. Either way, I'm getting the hang of these dies before I start worrying about putting powder through anything in particular.

[JimB..]

The thing you’re trying to tighten is the collet for the decapping pin. Loosen it and push the pin down until it sticks out about 1/4” below the end of the die. This will probably make it about flush with the collet. Then tighten the collet as much as you reasonably can. I hold the die in a vise by the flats and then use a box wrench to tighten the collet, but I’m old and have both space and tools that you don’t have yet.

BTW, decapping pins are a consumable product. You’ll decap (remove spent primers from) thousands of cases without issue, then you’ll bend/break a decapping pin and then break another in a few minutes. They are cheap, it’s worth having a couple spares and Murphy’s law applies, if you have spares you’re less likely to need them than if you do not.

[VariableRecall]

The thing you’re trying to tighten is the collet for the decapping pin. Loosen it and push the pin down until it sticks out about 1/4” below the end of the die. This will probably make it about flush with the collet. Then tighten the collet as much as you reasonably can. I hold the die in a vise by the flats and then use a box wrench to tighten the collet, but I’m old and have both space and tools that you don’t have yet.

BTW, decapping pins are a consumable product. You’ll decap (remove spent primers from) thousands of cases without issue, then you’ll bend/break a decapping pin and then break another in a few minutes. They are cheap, it’s worth having a couple spares and Murphy’s law applies, if you have spares you’re less likely to need them than if you do not.

Hey there Jim! I've managed to get a 3/4th inch wrench and moving the decapping pin back into place just fine. Took a lot of elbow grease but I managed. Decapped all of my shot brass. Looks like I'll need to do that with my loaner brass as well. I've managed to get my bullet seating to 1.448 almost every time: only 0.003 above the COL that's in the Load Data I'm using. Is that an acceptable COL for a revolver? Better to have a tiny bit more room that far too little.

However, One problem has arisen as I'm attempting to pull these seated bullets to check for any damage to the hi-tek coating during seating. My Bullet puller hasn't been able to yank them apart. I'm a little worried that my neighbors above and below me would not appreciate loud, sudden, thumping sounds of wood against plastic. Usually a swift tap gets it out easily, but these past couple of loads without powder or caps have refused to budge. Any tips on how to deafen the sound or materials that will allow me to slam the puller into something more quietly? I'm currently using an end table with a dish-rag over the impact zone in my bedroom that's made out of particle board since I don't want to mar my solid wood kitchen table.

I was thinking that I could use the end of a hard rubber mallet as an impact surface. The only problem is that the area is smaller, and on some parts, not very flat.

[JimB..]

I’m not sure what you mean by “loaner brass” but if you’re talking about the brass I sent you, it has been sized already and those are live primers, so just start by expanding them, then charging and finally seating and crimping the bullet.

The hammer style puller is loud. Using towels to dampen the noise also dampens the impact, so it doesn’t work as well. I’d go outside and bang it on some fairly smooth concrete. A short firm smack is better than a big windup.

If I plan to try to reuse pulled bullets I drop a bit of foam or a wad of paper towels inside the hammer to cushion the bullet when it comes flying out.

[VariableRecall]

The hammer style puller is loud. Using towels to dampen the noise also dampens the impact, so it doesn’t work as well. I’d go outside and bang it on some fairly smooth concrete. A short firm smack is better than a big windup.


I didn't mean anything of it calling it "Loaner Brass". just that it came from another source than my own inventory of brass. I was talking about the miscellaneous brass that was left unprimed but clean and ready to use. I don't want to test my seating procedure on brass that has the only primers in my inventory, that's all. I may try the concrete outside my door while no one's looking. That, and more confidently slamming the puller into my less fortunate furniture. There is a cube of foam inside the bullet puller that cushions the bullet once it is separated. I'm pretty much sacrificing these 2-3 bullets for seating tests.

On another note, I also figured out how to calibrate my scales, both the Lee Precision Scale and the Electronic Scale I picked up. Thankfully that one has a calibrated weight to set it with. I have NOT opened up my 1lb bottle of Win 231 just yet, and I'd rather not until I'm absolutely certain I can do the job right. Those 100 primers are all I have and I want to do my absolute best job to make them count.

[Txcowboy52]

Stick with cast boolits and Bullseye and Unique are your friend

[Jniedbalski]

The best surface to use your bullet puller on is hard concrete. I have tried softer surfaces like wood floor or table and it just doesn’t work good. On over all leingth don’t worry about it much. In a revolver as long as it fits and dosent stick out of the cylinder it’s fine. Don’t worry if your leingth is plus’s or minus .005 or less

[VariableRecall]

Thank you for the tips! Here's the four unprimed but seated cartridges that I can't seem to pull without either causing too much noise or just not enough gutso.
I'm going to try to use Imgur to post some more high resolution files.

All Four Seated Brass + Bullets. All four brass cases are from four different brands/lengths.
https://imgur.com/rrVup56
https://imgur.com/GpGflMB
https://imgur.com/xRsmlrP
https://imgur.com/3SrOW7o

How do these look? Are they crimped too hard? I'm a little scared to take them down into my cylinder to be honest. Perhaps one of those reference chamber things would be best...

[JimB..]

I wasn’t offended by the term “loaner brass” I just didn’t understand.

Can you post a picture of the bullet you’re loading, I’d like to know if it has a crimp groove.

Hopefully you’ve read about seating and crimping. You have a seating die that will also crimp, and then you have the factory crimp die. Set the factory crimp die aside and learn to adjust the seating and crimping die so that the crimp rolls into the crimp groove on the bullet. Some folks like the factory crimp die, but learn the old way first so you can make an informed decision.

FWIW, hit the hammer solidly on the concrete, swing from the elbow and flick the wrist at the end, the hammer is not going to break.

Glad that you got the scales figured out. There is nothing magic about opening the powder bottle, I have some partial containers that were opened more than a decade ago and the powder is fine.

If you’re willing to waste a little powder, put a little on a piece of paper and set it on fire (outside). You’ll be surprised at how it burns, it’s really nothing exciting and certainly nothing like the movies, it’ll burn but it won’t go bang unless it’s contained. I commonly dump powder from questionable sources out on the front lawn, it’s a good fertilizer.

[JimB..]

One more thing, drop those test cartridges into the cylinder, if they don’t fit you can easily push them back out with the ejector...that’s what it’s for.

[samari46]

Two bullet choices for a S&W Model 10. 148 grain dewc or 158 grain swc. Of the two I'd start off with the 158 swc as it's more likely to shoot to the sights and save the wadcutters when you get more comfortable with your revolver. Me I like big bores,44 special and 45 acp. Don't have a suitable mold for the 44 special but plenty of hard cast to play with and the 45 acp will be getting a mold for the 230 grain RN standard Gov't profile. That bullet has never failed to give good accuracy in any 45 its been shot in. Frank

[VariableRecall]

I wasn’t offended by the term “loaner brass” I just didn’t understand.

Can you post a picture of the bullet you’re loading, I’d like to know if it has a crimp groove.

Hopefully you’ve read about seating and crimping. You have a seating die that will also crimp, and then you have the factory crimp die. Set the factory crimp die aside and learn to adjust the seating and crimping die so that the crimp rolls into the crimp groove on the bullet. Some folks like the factory crimp die, but learn the old way first so you can make an informed decision.


I had purchased this set of SWC .38 bullets from Hoosier Bullets: https://hoosierbullets.com/38-caliber-158-grain-swc-hi-tech-coated/

I'm fairly certain I'm using the seating/crimping die, but as far as I can tell since every case is a little different depending on the manufacturer, the crimp is being applied to around the same place but often not exactly on the ring that it's meant for.

Regarding powder, I'd assume that it's OK to put unused powder back into its original container as long as it was dry? I'm thinking of having only a dixie cup sized portion (2oz) of powder on the table at a time when I'm charging my cartridges, with the main supply of powder far away. I've also got a normal sized fire extinguisher in my apartment that i'd rather never put to use but it's there for the dire situations that require it.

[Bazoo]

Powder doesn't ignite unless you have a flame right on it. No reason to dump powder in a container and move the pound container elsewhere. Dump some in your cup, I use an aluminum measuring cup, and recap your container. When you're done, dump it back into the container. In fact it is foolish to move the original container away if you have more than one powder. Likewise never have more than one kind of powder out at once. If you're interrupted you may accidentally pour it back into the wrong container. If you have open powder and need to take a short break, say for the bathroom or a coke, that's totally fine.

[Bazoo]

It's cool to play with your dies and stuff now, but you should read the Lyman manual before making live cartridges. In fact it's imperative that you read the manual sections on powder, primers, cases, and handgun loading. Did I see you have a Lyman 46th? If so read pages 170-202. It only takes an hour.

If you're not willing to set down and read about loading, you'll not be a safe loader. Reloading is not something you can jump into and learn as you go, you learn first, then learn more as you go. The only safe way to learn without a mentor is to study the manuals, and not the load data.

[VariableRecall]

It's cool to play with your dies and stuff now, but you should read the Lyman manual before making live cartridges. In fact it's imperative that you read the manual sections on powder, primers, cases, and handgun loading. Did I see you have a Lyman 46th? If so read pages 170-202. It only takes an hour.

I have read that portion of the book regarding handgun cartridges. It gives some good tips and procedures on all this. I'll probably go over it again before I truly begin. Right now I'm still a little worried that I may be crimping too hard. Can you tell if there's anything wrong with the seated brass and bullets?

[JimB..]

Those crimps look good enough. Having different case lengths affects the crimp, some people trim to get to the same length, some sort by length, some sort by headstamp. I generally don’t do any of that because I’m not a good enough shot for it to matter.

If it concerns you just sort them by length and set the dies for whatever you have the most of.

[Bazoo]

The crimp looks okay to me. If they chamber, it should be just fine. If you have too much crimp the longer cases will buckle. I trim for consistent crimp, but I also have done both loading by headstamp and loading by case longest length.

Read those other parts too.

[VariableRecall]

The crimp looks okay to me. If they chamber, it should be just fine. If you have too much crimp the longer cases will buckle. I trim for consistent crimp, but I also have done both loading by headstamp and loading by case longest length.

Read those other parts too.
https://imgur.com/3SrOW7o
I'm not entirely sure if it's just me, but I think that the case to the left is a little on the snug side in terms of diameter. I think I can see the area where the bullet sits in the case bulged out by a tiny bit.

If it was loaded and fired, would something like that work with no problem? Just trying to dot all of my I's on this one.

Also, would putting Hoppe's gun lubricant into the hand press shaft work? I can see the factory lube in there but it's something I will have to worry about in the future.

[Bazoo]

Too much crimp will bulge the case at the top, but as long as you can get it chambered it will be safe to fire. I've fired some that I had to push into the chambers. Just back off the crimp a smidge. Another thing you can do, is bump that round into the sizing die with the decapping assembly removed. Bump in just a 1/16" and don't run it the while way into it, otherwise it will swage your bullet down. It's a quick and dirty way of making that odd round that won't chamber, chamber without having to break the round down. Try it with your dummy, but it is fine for a live round.

Never ever go back and reseat a primer in a love round. By the way.

Hoppes gun oil is fine for the hand press. It needn't be wet with lube. I like hoppes oil personally, but bout anything will suffice.

By the way, everyone makes dummy rounds to assist in setting up the seat crimp die when changing bullets. Once you get it where you want it, make a dummy and then you use that in the die so you can bring the adjustment right in to where you want it with minimal tweaking.

[VariableRecall]

Another thing you can do, is bump that round into the sizing die with the decapping assembly removed.

I believe I'm using the standard Bullet Seating Die for the seating and crimping, with the post-seating die's crimp tools empty. I'll send it through the post-crimp and see how it looks.

I think I will be sizing, setting, and seating another four sacrificial bullets/brass in short time, and closely analyze the results.

[David2011]

My favorite surface for impact bullet pullers is a piece of end grain wood. A piece of log at least 5” or 6” in diameter and 15”-20” long works great. I believe it’s easier on the puller than unyielding surfaces like concrete or metal.

[VariableRecall]

My favorite surface for impact bullet pullers is a piece of end grain wood. A piece of log at least 5” or 6” in diameter and 15”-20” long works great. I believe it’s easier on the puller than unyielding surfaces like concrete or metal.

I'm looking for a surface that would not cause too much racket and should not resonate too much. That's why I was thinking of a hard rubber mallet like the kind that you use to un-dent a piece of car body. I'm just hoping that the action of hitting it against the mallet would be overall quieter than my current strategy of smacking the puller against particle board furniture.

[Bazoo]

A short length of 4x4 would be about perfect for an apartment dweller. Also be handy for other things occasionally.

Probably get by with flipping over a chair or table and hitting it against the end grain of the leg.

Maybe a brick would suffice?

If you have a rubber mallet, don't ask us, tell us... whether or not it worked

[VariableRecall]

If you have a rubber mallet, don't ask us, tell us... whether or not it worked

I'll pick up a rubber mallet next time I go shopping and try it out. Pretty busy this week, to be honest.

[VariableRecall]

Super quick question, are CCI primers in the .500 caliber size is the standard for 38 Special? I don't want to purchase a primer size that is not going to be compatible.

[fcvan]

Super quick question, are CCI primers in the .500 caliber size is the standard for 38 Special? I don't want to purchase a primer size that is not going to be compatible.

CCI Primers marked #500 (not .500) are Small Pistol Primers. Their actual diameter is .177, yes BB size. Frank

[VariableRecall]

CCI Primers marked #500 (not .500) are Small Pistol Primers. Their actual diameter is .177, yes BB size. Frank

Thanks! I'll be sure to look for those, then!

[Bazoo]

You need to read the section in the manual marked "primers". It explains all about primers, and includes a chart of common primers and their sizes.

[VariableRecall]

OK! I've got myself a Rubber Mallet, and it turns out it does quiet the hammer blows a good deal! What worked best for me is bracing the mallet shaft on a chair or something else solid, and taking a swing at it with the puller.

Concrete + Mallet works best, making nice and quiet and you can wallop with it as hard as you need to. I'm already causing a great deal of damage the the mallet's face but it was like $3 and I just wanted to prove a theory.

I've managed to pull two of the brass/bullet combinations that I've created and from the looks of it, the reason why the brass has been tough to pull is that the crimp is set a smidge high. Keep in mind that this is happening when my own COL is a tiny bit higher than what is recommended in my current load data.

One of the bullets I've pulled for example.
https://imgur.com/qeLMBa3

Speaking of that, I've got an official Lee reloading guide on its way now. It should be arriving by the middle of next week.

[Bazoo]

The lee manual is okay but the Lyman is much better in my opinion.

Stop worrying about overall length, crimp in the crimp groove. You can't crimp on a driving band. You want the case mouth at the top of the crimp groove. The crimp groove and case length determines your overall length.

You can't match overall length most of the time even with a bullet of known design and data for that specific bullet. Reason is a bullet mold made in 2000 will make a bullet of slightly different dimensions than a mold made in 1980.

[JimB..]

You are correct, and listen to Bazoo.

For a revolver the COL is not as critical as it is for an auto loader.

It is important not to make the COL shorter than the book recipe. Pressure is determine by the amount of powder and the amount of space inside the cartridge. If you push the bullet down too far (a few .001” won’t matter, but .1” will) you’ll get more pressure than expected. Fortunately, you need to seat less deeply, so that’s less pressure and a very safe deviation from the recipe.

Make sense?

[VariableRecall]

It is important not to make the COL shorter than the book recipe. Pressure is determine by the amount of powder and the amount of space inside the cartridge. If you push the bullet down too far (a few .001” won’t matter, but .1” will) you’ll get more pressure than expected. Fortunately, you need to seat less deeply, so that’s less pressure and a very safe deviation from the recipe.

Make sense?

It makes sense. I'm just very glad that this missed crimp was applied to four un-primed cases and not a large portion of the donated brass with primers in them. I'd assume that the bullets won't need as much whacking when the brass is properly set into the crimp groove and not the smidge above it. Check the picture link for what I'm talking about. Either way, the COL will be a teeny bit longer, but that's far better than too shallow of an overall length.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Would be smart to make certain that the longer COL loads will fit in your cylinder, of course. Just stating the obvious,I know :)

[VariableRecall]

Would be smart to make certain that the longer COL loads will fit in your cylinder, of course. Just stating the obvious,I know :)

Would inserting a cartridge in question into the cylinder (with the cylinder off the yoke to keep it away from that hammer), laying it flat, and seeing if it pokes out the top be a reasonable strategy?

[JimB..]

Would inserting a cartridge in question into the cylinder (with the cylinder off the yoke to keep it away from that hammer), laying it flat, and seeing if it pokes out the top be a reasonable strategy?

No need to remove the cylinder from the gun, just open it and drop one in. It should drop all the way in and not poke out the front. Then turn the gun up and it’ll likely fall out, if not use the ejector.

[VariableRecall]

No need to remove the cylinder from the gun, just open it and drop one in. It should drop all the way in and not poke out the front. Then turn the gun up and it’ll likely fall out, if not use the ejector.

Sounds Good. Things are pretty busy but when I'll get the chance I'll start to get familiarized with the Lee Precision Scale and my Digital scale, getting a better idea of what 3.6 grains of Win 231 actually looks like. I'd assume that's just about a hefty pinch's worth of powder. I've yet to pop open it myself.

[JimB..]

I suggest that you make yourself a gauge to quickly see when a case is properly charged. The most common charging errors in my experience are either failing to charge a case, or charging it twice, it is easy to avoid both of these, and failing that to identify it.

Personally I prefer Bazoo’s approach of charging the case and setting a bullet before you set it down, but if that doesn’t work for you here’s a way to check all the cases in a block.

Get a piece of wooden dowel that’s just small enough to slip into a case. Using a fired case with the primer still in it drop the dowel into the case and draw or cut a line on the dowel at the length of the case. Now put 3.6g of w231 in the case, drop in the dowel (Don’t pound it) and draw/cut another ring on the dowel. Now put another 3.6g of w231 in the case and cut/draw a final ring. Dump the powder back into the jug.

Now when you drop this dowel into a case you’ll know with confidence that you’ve charged the case but not double charged it.

Case length varies a little, so you won’t always hit the middle line perfectly, that’s okay, you’re looking for gross errors.

One advantage of learning to load on a single stage is that it’s easy to take a case and dump the charge back onto the scale to check it. If it’s right, then pour it back into the case. Nobody will make fun of you for rechecking weights a lot when you first start...we all cringed a little when we made and fired our first round.

[VariableRecall]

I suggest that you make yourself a gauge to quickly see when a case is properly charged. The most common charging errors in my experience are either failing to charge a case, or charging it twice, it is easy to avoid both of these, and failing that to identify it.

Personally I prefer Bazoo’s approach of charging the case and setting a bullet before you set it down, but if that doesn’t work for you here’s a way to check all the cases in a block.

Get a piece of wooden dowel that’s just small enough to slip into a case. Using a fired case with the primer still in it drop the dowel into the case and draw or cut a line on the dowel at the length of the case. Now put 3.6g of w231 in the case, drop in the dowel (Don’t pound it) and draw/cut another ring on the dowel. Now put another 3.6g of w231 in the case and cut/draw a final ring. Dump the powder back into the jug.

Now when you drop this dowel into a case you’ll know with confidence that you’ve charged the case but not double charged it.

Case length varies a little, so you won’t always hit the middle line perfectly, that’s okay, you’re looking for gross errors.

One advantage of learning to load on a single stage is that it’s easy to take a case and dump the charge back onto the scale to check it. If it’s right, then pour it back into the case. Nobody will make fun of you for rechecking weights a lot when you first start...we all cringed a little when we made and fired our first round.

Thanks for getting the details down for the dowel technique! I think a pencil or a disused pen will do just fine for the job. Perhaps a strip of painter's tape above the line would provide a clear indication that the case is significantly under or over-charged.

[JimB..]

Thanks for getting the details down for the dowel technique! I think a pencil or a disused pen will do just fine for the job. Perhaps a strip of painter's tape above the line would provide a clear indication that the case is significantly under or over-charged.

A pencil would be fine, you want something flat on the end, so probably not a pen. I’ll leave coloring to you, I’m not that creative, but maybe a little red below the middle line because an overcharge is the more critical error.

[VariableRecall]

A pencil would be fine, you want something flat on the end, so probably not a pen. I’ll leave coloring to you, I’m not that creative, but maybe a little red below the middle line because an overcharge is the more critical error.

Understood! It always pays to be careful with what I'm doing here.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Friend paints the top part of his checking tool green & the "double charge" part red, an option for you. I just am very systematic & never had issues, but I am OCD about charging carefully & no visitors when doing it.

[VariableRecall]

Friend paints the top part of his checking tool green & the "double charge" part red, an option for you. I just am very systematic & never had issues, but I am OCD about charging carefully & no visitors when doing it.
That's a good tip! Thank you!

[Bazoo]

I start with my brass in a Tupperware. I pick one up and charge it either with dipper or powder measure, then place it in a loading block. I check them with a flashlight. No reason to use a dowel or pencil in my mind.

It'll do you well to do a little experiment, charge 5, with one being double. Either in a loading block or lined up on the table, look with your light and you will spot it easily. Dump all 5 back.

[VariableRecall]

I start with my brass in a Tupperware. I pick one up and charge it either with dipper or powder measure, then place it in a loading block. I check them with a flashlight. No reason to use a dowel or pencil in my mind.

It'll do you well to do a little experiment, charge 5, with one being double. Either in a loading block or lined up on the table, look with your light and you will spot it easily. Dump all 5 back.

That's a sound plan! I need to familiarize myself what a problem will look like! I believe that I should really get started with measuring my powder as soon as I can. I've got a congested week but I may be able to spare some time on the weekend for it. It's going to take some figuring out, but doing this sort of experimentation in the process of measuring powder is something I should do before I seat powdered filled bullets into brass.

[Cargo]

I started loading in March and also started with .38 special. It is a great round to reload for.

I started with, and still use, a Lee Hand Press kit. It came with the Ram Prime, lube, funnel etc.

I use a set of $2 funnels I bought off of Amazon because I like the funnel neck to go into the throat of the case.

I use Lee Carbide Dies because they were the least expensive and I knew they would work.

I did buy a loading block but could have simply used a pc of drilled 2x8 and been just as happy.

I went with a small battery operated digital scale for portability and storage.

I reload at the dining room table due to current space limitations so I purchased a large bamboo butchers block to use as a work station. It works very nicely at catching stray powder and protecting the table.

Personal opinion if storage is at a premium. Find one powder you like that can be used for practice lead bullets as well as good defensive semi-jacketed bullets.

[JoeJames]

One thing that is an essential to me, but took awhile to realize it is a powder trickler. Use it in conjunction with your scale, so you don't have to keep dumping it back if it is a bit light.

Since you are using Win 231, I looked back through my notes and in my Model 67 S&W 4", it seemed to like 4.1 grains of Win 231 with a 160 grain lead SWC. I chronographed them and they averaged out at 788 fps.

All revolvers are a tad different in loads and velocities, and all manuals vary a bit also.
My old Speer manual says with a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 792 fps; a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.4 grains of 231 = 878 fps (pretty hot load in my opinion);
my Lyman manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 837 fps.
Hornady manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.1 grains of 231 = 800 fps.

I would not exceed 4.1 grains of Win 231, in my opinion.

However, my favorite pistol powder is Bullseye. But it is very, very easy to double charge; since a regular charge of Bullseye just dusts the pan, and you really cannot detect a double charge very easily by just looking into the case.

[VariableRecall]

One thing that is an essential to me, but took awhile to realize it is a powder trickler. Use it in conjunction with your scale, so you don't have to keep dumping it back if it is a bit light.

Since you are using Win 231, I looked back through my notes and in my Model 67 S&W 4", it seemed to like 4.1 grains of Win 231 with a 160 grain lead SWC. I chronographed them and they averaged out at 788 fps.

All revolvers are a tad different in loads and velocities, and all manuals vary a bit also.
My old Speer manual says with a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 792 fps; a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.4 grains of 231 = 878 fps (pretty hot load in my opinion);
my Lyman manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.0 grains of 231 = 837 fps.
Hornady manual indicates a 158 grain lead SWC & 4.1 grains of 231 = 800 fps.

I would not exceed 4.1 grains of Win 231, in my opinion.

However, my favorite pistol powder is Bullseye. But it is very, very easy to double charge; since a regular charge of Bullseye just dusts the pan, and you really cannot detect a double charge very easily by just looking into the case.

I'm planning on starting with the averaged minimum recommended amount of powder for the bullet weight from a couple of different manuals, around 3.5 to 3.6 grains.

Keep in mind that the Model 67 is a modern revolver rated for .38+p with a bull barrel. My model 10 has the older style pencil barrel (one of the reasons why i got it), so I'd prefer not to overcharge the fella.

From the loading data that I've gathered, 4.0 grains of 231 is pretty close to the edge of safe loading for standard .38 Special for that size of bullet. Not to mention, 750+fps at 3.6 grains give or take will still put the bullet at a reasonable speed towards what needs to be leaded.
Getting close to a dangerous overcharge for an extra 50 feet per second or so isn't as much of an advantage.

By the way, I did in fact purchase a powder trickler for the very purpose of making sure I get exact with my loads.

[JoeJames]

I'm planning on starting with the averaged minimum recommended amount of powder for the bullet weight from a couple of different manuals, around 3.5 to 3.6 grains.

Keep in mind that the Model 67 is a modern revolver rated for .38+p with a bull barrel. My model 10 has the older style pencil barrel (one of the reasons why i got it), so I'd prefer not to overcharge the fella.

From the loading data that I've gathered, 4.0 grains of 231 is pretty close to the edge of safe loading for standard .38 Special for that size of bullet. Not to mention, 750+fps at 3.6 grains give or take will still put the bullet at a reasonable speed towards what needs to be leaded.
Getting close to a dangerous overcharge for an extra 50 feet per second or so isn't as much of an advantage.

By the way, I did in fact purchase a powder trickler for the very purpose of making sure I get exact with my loads.I have shot the same load in my old Model 15, in my old S&W Victory Model, but there is certainly nothing wrong with going with 3.6 grains, and it is commendable; as I have certainly never been accused of shooting hot loads. Since you have a fixed sight Model 10, you should enjoy figuring out what load will shoot to point of aim. At least I did with my old fixed sight 32 S&W Hand Ejectors. For them I used the loads recommended by Hatcher in his book: The Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers published in 1935. I used his data on factory loads that the old 32 HE's were regulated with. And my loads shot to point of aim.

He states in there the factory load for the 38 Special with a 158 grain bullet was with 3.6 grains of Bullseye and the velocity was 860 fps out of a six inch barrel.
The interesting thing, and it is counter-intuitive, is that generally a slower load will shoot higher at say 15 yards (dwell time) than a faster load with the same weight boolit.

[VariableRecall]

I have shot the same load in my old Model 15, in my old S&W Victory Model, but there is certainly nothing wrong with going with 3.6 grains, and it is commendable; as I have certainly never been accused of shooting hot loads. Since you have a fixed sight Model 10, you should enjoy figuring out what load will shoot to point of aim. At least I did with my old fixed sight 32 S&W Hand Ejectors. For them I used the loads recommended by Hatcher in his book: The Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers published in 1935. I used his data on factory loads that the old 32 HE's were regulated with. And my loads shot to point of aim.

He states in there the factory load for the 38 Special with a 158 grain bullet was with 3.6 grains of Bullseye and the velocity was 860 fps out of a six inch barrel.
The interesting thing, and it is counter-intuitive, is that generally a slower load will shoot higher at say 15 yards (dwell time) than a faster load with the same weight boolit.

I don't plan on target shooting with my Model 10, but I'd certainly like to be accurate with it in double action at ranges expected for self defense, around 5-20 yards. The single action trigger is some of the best I've had but I'm going to count on double action to save my life in an emergency. DA is what I'm going to focus on as I become familiarized with my revolver.
That, and the ammunition I'm going to reload for it so I can become more familiarized in the first place.

Also, one thing I did notice when I took it out to the range was that I was occasionally shooting about an two inches to the left at 10 yards, and a little high when trying to hit center of mass in DA. Should I have been tightening my grip in that situation? It wasn't my factory ammo, that's for sure.

[JoeJames]

I never shoot DA. If it was single action, I'd say grip, and placement of your finger on the trigger. Might experiment with those. A Smith trigger kind of hones itself over the years. I have a 22 caliber kitgun that I've had 35 or so years, and it's down to about 2 1/2 pounds single action. My Model 15-3 made about 1970 (probably about the same age as your 10-5) is down to 3 1/8 pounds. BTW what is the serial number of yours? You can sub x's for the last 3 numerals if you wish, and I can tell you what year it was made.

[VariableRecall]

I never shoot DA. If it was single action, I'd say grip, and placement of your finger on the trigger. Might experiment with those. A Smith trigger kind of hones itself over the years. I have a 22 caliber kitgun that I've had 35 or so years, and it's down to about 2 1/2 pounds single action. My Model 15-3 made about 1970 (probably about the same age as your 10-5) is down to 3 1/8 pounds. BTW what is the serial number of yours? You can sub x's for the last 3 numerals if you wish, and I can tell you what year it was made.

My Model 10's serial number is D274624. The state already knows who it's owner now, so there's no reason to keep it secret.
As shown in the photo, there is a good deal of carry wear but very little shooting wear. the ratcheting teeth on the cylinder are in great shape.

[JoeJames]

Manufactured 1969-1970. As I said, about like my Model 15-3.

[VariableRecall]

Manufactured 1969-1970. As I said, about like my Model 15-3.

Considering your model 15 was produced around the same time, It's pretty interesting that mine is in an older style. Perhaps the previous owner could get a sweet deal on a brand new Model 10 for a better price forgoing the upgrades of other contemporary models. Kind of the same deal for me, too!

I've looked on Smith and Wesson's website and their newly manufactured Model 10's have the apparently hated trigger lock and MSRP for $799, but they have the Bull Barrel and are compatible with hotter loads.

[JoeJames]

I would not concern myself about the bull barrel vs. the pencil barrel particularly on any revolver. On old pre-World War I S&W Hand Ejectors, I would worry more about the cylinder strength. Heat treating was not done then. I shoot my 32 S&W Long pre-war H.E.'s, but keep the loads moderate. By the time your Model 10 was made (1969-1970), I would not worry about cylinder strength with the moderate loads in the manuals. In my experience and from my reading, the barrel is not going to let go unless there is a blockage (Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers). Hatcher made a study of what it took to blow the cylinder of M&P type S&W's (1935)(the M&P was the predecessor of the Model 10) and if I recall correctly, even back then, often took 3 or 4 rounds loaded with double charges of Bullseye powder before the cylinder would blow up; sometimes the first round though. That's why many have mentioned avoiding double charges in this thread!

BTW Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers is available at Kindle Books, and it is my main source for replicating factory loads for my 32 H.E.'s and the 38 S&W, and others. Also Sixguns by Elmer Keith is also available in the Kindle Store. Read them and you will get a better foundation. I also bought Hatcher's book in paperback through Amazon.

[VariableRecall]

I would not concern myself about the bull barrel vs. the pencil barrel particularly on any revolver. On old pre-World War I S&W Hand Ejectors, I would worry more about the cylinder strength. Heat treating was not done then. I shoot my 32 S&W Long pre-war H.E.'s, but keep the loads moderate. By the time your Model 10 was made (1969-1970), I would not worry about cylinder strength with the loads I mentioned. In my experience and from my reading, the barrel is not going to let go unless there is a blockage (Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers). Hatcher made a study of what it took to blow the cylinder of M&P type S&W's (1935)(the M&P was the predecessor of the Model 10) and if I recall correctly, even back then, it took 3 or 4 rounds loaded with double charges of Bullseye powder before the cylinder would blow up.

BTW Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers is available at Kindle Books, and it is my main source for replicating factory loads for my 32 H.E.'s and the 38 S&W, and others. Also Sixguns by Elmer Keith is also available in the Kindle Store. Read them and you will get a better foundation. I also bought Hatcher's book in paperback through Amazon.

Oh! that book is available on Kindle!? Nice! Thanks for the clarification regarding the barrels. That Hatcher fellow is a lot braver than I am. Any double charge would likely reduce my revolver cylinder's life expectancy, so that's something to keep in mind.

So, theoretically, would it be possible to take a brand new manufactured Model 10 cylinder, and slide it onto the yoke, would it work just fine or need to be tuned by a gunsmith?

[JoeJames]

Oh! that book is available on Kindle!? Nice! Thanks for the clarification regarding the barrels. That Hatcher fellow is a lot braver than I am. Any double charge would likely reduce my revolver cylinder's life expectancy, so that's something to keep in mind.

So, theoretically, would it be possible to take a brand new manufactured Model 10 cylinder, and slide it onto the yoke, would it work just fine or need to be tuned by a gunsmith?I would not even consider changing cylinders at your stage of the game. I have been shooting revolvers for about 58 years; Smiths and Rugers mostly, and that thought has never entered my mind. Well not in this context anyway - maybe on converting a S&W Model 28 357 to 44 Special. Re: Hatcher - he tested cylinder strength shooting it in a rest. He certainly was not holding it and shooting double loads at the time. But, all in all it is good you are cautious, most young'uns want to hot rods their pistol loads, or just don't know any better.

I remember ages ago the local sheriff's office got in some reloading gear; a couple of deputies were trying it out, and called another deputy on how much pistol powder to use. He said "just fill the case up to where there is space left for the bullet", thinking they were joking. They loaded a few up and took their new rounds across the levee to test them in an issue Model 66 S&W. First round was more than a little shocking! They had enough sense to not shoot anymore, but it was a testament to the strength of a S&W Model 66.

[VariableRecall]

I would not even consider changing cylinders at your stage of the game.

My Model 10's cylinder is in perfect shape to be honest, and I wouldn't be changing it any time soon. Not for a couple of decades! It was just a thought. It would take quite an absurd amount of wear and tear of normal shooting to need a new cylinder. I'd assume you would need a new barrel first!

[JoeJames]

Fixing to light out of the office, but have an I-Pad at home. Any other questions, just ask on here. One thing I did think of ... with your very moderate loads, avoid loading jacketed bullets. I have had it happen once with a Ruger 44 Special. Loading a 240 grain JHP sitting on 7 grains of Unique. It just didn't sound right when I shot it, and I checked the barrel. The jhp had not exited the barrel, but was sitting there about flush with the end of the barrel, kind of like a groundhog in his burrow. That could have had a dramatic effect on the barrel. It just takes more force to get a jacketed bullet down and out the barrel, then it does a lead cast boolitt

[VariableRecall]

Fixing to light out of the office, but have an I-Pad at home. Any other questions, just ask on here. One thing I did think of ... with your very moderate loads, avoid loading jacketed bullets. I have had it happen once with a Ruger 44 Special. Loading a 240 grain JHP sitting on 7 grains of Unique. It just didn't sound right when I shot it, and I checked the barrel. The jhp had not exited the barrel, but was sitting there about flush with the end of the barrel, kind of like a groundhog in his burrow. That could have had a dramatic effect on the barrel. It just takes more force to get a jacketed bullet down and out the barrel, then it does a lead cast boolitt

Thank you for the tip! I was wondering why there was so much more powder recommended for even lower weighted JHP and other jacketed loads.

[JoeJames]

I thought about that, and that's why I mentioned it. You were worried about the barrel blowing up, and really a squib lodged in the barrel is the only practical way that could happen; otherwise the cylinder would let go first with a double charge, but the barrel would mostly be ok. The rest of the revolver would be a bit of a mess though, along with your hand.

[VariableRecall]

I thought about that, and that's why I mentioned it. You were worried about the barrel blowing up, and really a squib lodged in the barrel is the only practical way that could happen; otherwise the cylinder would let go first with a double charge, but the barrel would mostly be ok. The rest of the revolver would be a bit of a mess though, along with your hand.

So basically putting hotter loads on the far end of recommendations in load data through my revolver will shorten its life-span rather than result in immediate failure? It's still something I don't want to do, but it's certainly something to keep in mind in terms of caring for it so my kids can use it safely in the future. (once I get some)

[JoeJames]

As the manuals all say maximum recommended loads should be approached with caution. I try to find the most accurate load. With my Model 15-3 and my Model 67 4.1 gr of Win 231 or 3.7 grains of Bullseye are usually fairly accurate with a 158-160 grain semi-wadcutters and run between 820 - 850 fps. Loads at or above the max may not just shorten the life of your revolver, but might result in immediate failure. Read up on signs of pressure like flattened primers, cases hard to eject, etc.

[VariableRecall]

As the manuals all say maximum recommended loads should be approached with caution. I try to find the most accurate load. With my Model 15-3 and my Model 67 4.1 gr of Win 231 or 3.7 grains of Bullseye are usually fairly accurate with a 158-160 grain semi-wadcutters and run between 820 - 850 fps. Loads at or above the max may not just shorten the life of your revolver, but might result in immediate failure. Read up on signs of pressure like flattened primers, cases hard to eject, etc.

Well, for a 158gr lead SWC that I've got in my inventory, 3.6 to 3.8 grains of Win 231 will do nicely. Even better, I've now purchased the Lee Powder Dipper set, so I can dump around 3.5 grains of Win 231 (WOW! That's a tiny amount), and use my powder trickler to adjust to the exact load that I want out of the loads I am working with.

[JoeJames]

Well, for a 158gr lead SWC that I've got in my inventory, 3.6 to 3.8 grains of Win 231 will do nicely. Even better, I've now purchased the Lee Powder Dipper set, so I can dump around 3.5 grains of Win 231 (WOW! That's a tiny amount), and use my powder trickler to adjust to the exact load that I want out of the loads I am working with.That is why we all are extremely careful in avoiding double charges. 3.5 grains just dusts the pan.

[VariableRecall]

That is why we all are extremely careful in avoiding double charges. 3.5 grains just dusts the pan.

Speaking of being very careful about loads, would Winchester 231 be OK to use with Full Wadcutter bullets? Obviously, they should be underloaded considering the amount of bullet that rests in the case. Do you have any brands/websites of full-wadcutter bullets that you would recommend?

[Outpost75]

With soft lead swaged 148 HBWC bullets 3.0-3.2 grains of W231 approximates factory wadcutter velocity and shouldn't be exceeded as it may blow the skirt.

With cast, solid-based 146-150-grain DEWCs you can load from 3.5 to 4.2 grains of W231 with a bullet similar to the Saeco #348, Saeco #052 or H&G No. 50 at 1.265" OAL. The 3.5 grain charge is listed by Lyman in the Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p. 255 as being 743 fps @ 12,300 cup and the max 4.2 grain load as 915 fps @ 16,800 cup.

[VariableRecall]

With soft lead swaged 148 HBWC bullets 3.0-3.2 grains of W231 approximates factory wadcutter velocity and shouldn't be exceeded as it may blow the skirt.

With cast, solid-based 146-150-grain DEWCs you can load from 3.5 to 4.2 grains of W231 with a bullet similar to the Saeco #348, Saeco #052 or H&G No. 50 at 1.265" OAL. The 3.5 grain charge is listed by Lyman in the Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p. 255 as being 743 fps @ 12,300 cup and the max 4.2 grain load as 915 fps @ 16,800 cup.

Thanks for the detailed info! do you know about any online retailers that sell them?

[JoeJames]

Midway, USA usually sells them, but they may be out. I looked for my standard for my 44 Special - Speer swaged 240 gr .430" swc's, and it said out of stock, no back order. That's why I have started casting a similar boolit. Figured the stampede would take everything off the table.

[VariableRecall]

Midway, USA usually sells them, but they may be out. I looked for my standard for my 44 Special - Speer swaged 240 gr .430" swc's, and it said out of stock, no back order. That's why I have started casting a similar boolit. Figured the stampede would take everything off the table.

OK! looks like I found what I would be looking for!
Has anyone else ordered from this supplier? I've estimated the price plus shipping to be about 8 cents a round! That's a pretty good deal!
https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-38-357-dewc-148-gr-per-900.html

[JimB..]

I’ve got a friend that’s got a pretty good inventory of commercial bullets for reloading. He’s got them all in these well labeled clear heavy duty plastic containers. Really looks nice and convenient to use. Took him a few years to perfect the system, and during that time the only rounds he’s loaded were 50 at my house when I was teaching him.

I suggest that you stop buying and start loading.

[Bazoo]

No amount of money spent will make up for the experience of doing it.

[VariableRecall]

No amount of money spent will make up for the experience of doing it.

I'm well satisfied the the boolits that I've received from Hoosier, I'm just looking around for other varieties of bullets availible. Probably will be using that initial batch of SWC for a year or more.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, Full disclosure here - I didn't read the entire thread (189 posts !)

VariableRecall - You have landed an OUTSTANDING gun ! A 4" K-frame chambered in 38 Special is an iconic firearm with incredibly good attributes.

The 38 Special is a forgiving cartridge to reload and extremely versatile. It is by far my favorite handgun cartridge.

269698

Here are a couple of S&W model 10 revolvers.
The one on top is a 10-7 that was formerly a Hong Kong Police issue. It has a Tyler T-grip adaptor installed.
The one on the bottom of the photo is a 10-5 that was refinished with NP3 and Pachmayr "Gripper" grips.

The model 10 has been round for over 100 years in one form or another. S&W got it right.
I have K-frames with the tapered barrel and K-frames with the heavy barrel. The extra weight of the heavy barrel helps the gun "hang" on target a little better and the recoil (which is minimal with 38 Special to start with) is a bit less. The tapered barrel is FAR more pleasant to carry due to the reduced weight. I gravitate a little more towards the tapered barrel models to take advantage of the weight reduction.

You could not have found a better handgun.

Good Luck !

[JoeJames]

OK! looks like I found what I would be looking for!
Has anyone else ordered from this supplier? I've estimated the price plus shipping to be about 8 cents a round! That's a pretty good deal!
https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-38-357-dewc-148-gr-per-900.htmlIt is my understanding that Rimrock bought the Oregon Trail company. Unless they have made major changes, I know for a fact that the Oregon Trail laser cast bullets are very good, and I have always read very good reviews on Rimrock. So in my opinion you made a good choice.

[VariableRecall]

VariableRecall - You have landed an OUTSTANDING gun ! A 4" K-frame chambered in 38 Special is an iconic firearm with incredibly good attributes.

The 38 Special is a forgiving cartridge to reload and extremely versatile. It is by far my favorite handgun cartridge.

Here are a couple of S&W model 10 revolvers.
The one on top is a 10-7 that was formerly a Hong Kong Police issue. It has a Tyler T-grip adaptor installed.
The one on the bottom of the photo is a 10-5 that was refinished with NP3 and Pachmayr "Gripper" grips.


Thank you very much!
I'd like to know where you were able to find those Tyler T-grip adapters. Are they still being produced? I've purchased a set of the Houge monogrips, and they do improve handling a good deal, but to be frank they degrade the aesthetics of blued steel against walnut. It seems the molded piece that adds more "meat" to the underside of the revolver would improve my ability to grip it while maintaining the aesthetics that I enjoy.

[VariableRecall]

It is my understanding that Rimrock bought the Oregon Trail company. Unless they have made major changes, I know for a fact that the Oregon Trail laser cast bullets are very good, and I have always read very good reviews on Rimrock. So in my opinion you made a good choice.

By the way, I haven't purchased anything from them just yet. Once my bullet supplies start getting low (less than 150 or so), I'd definitely consider them up next.

[Petrol & Powder]

Thank you very much!
I'd like to know where you were able to find those Tyler T-grip adapters. Are they still being produced? I've purchased a set of the Houge monogrips, and they do improve handling a good deal, but to be frank they degrade the aesthetics of blued steel against walnut. It seems the molded piece that adds more "meat" to the underside of the revolver would improve my ability to grip it while maintaining the aesthetics that I enjoy.

You can still get Tyler T-grip adaptors from Tyler Manufacturing:
http://www.t-grips.com/

There is a caveat, You must print out the order form, fill out the order form, include a check or money order and MAIL IT. (like in an envelope, with a stamp :shock: )

The Tyler T-grip is Old School but it is a great device. It is nothing more than a piece of cast aluminum or bronze that is polished or coated. They are an excellent means to improve the grip without added bulk. They are speed loader friendly and they just flat work.
Your model 10 is a square butt K-frame so it would take a #3 T-grip and you would probably want the shinny black finish or maybe the flat black finish.

[VariableRecall]

You can still get Tyler T-grip adaptors from Tyler Manufacturing:
http://www.t-grips.com/

There is a caveat, You must print out the order form, fill out the order form, include a check or money order and MAIL IT. (like in an envelope, with a stamp :shock: )

The Tyler T-grip is Old School but it is a great device. It is nothing more than a piece of cast aluminum or bronze that is polished or coated. They are an excellent means to improve the grip without added bulk. They are speed loader friendly and they just flat work.
Your model 10 is a square butt K-frame so it would take a #3 T-grip and you would probably want the shinny black finish or maybe the flat black finish.

Don't you worry, I've got some Forever Stamps on hand and a checkbook. I'll check out their website! Thanks!

[VariableRecall]

270180

I've done it! I've loaded my first 48 rounds thanks to all of you nice people! I can't appreciate you all enough!
158 gr SWC, loaded with 3.6gn of Win 231.

Just a quick question, are there any Lee Dippers that are in sizes between the ones in the Lee Dipper Set? The 0.3 Dipper rounds out to 3.2 grains, but the next one, 0.5, makes it about 4.1 grains.
Is there a 0.4 Lee Dipper out there?

[Wayne Smith]

When you go to the range you will find empty 22 brass all over the place. Scarf up a handful. Start by soldering a piece of wire to the base for a handle, and scoop up some powder and weigh it. File it smaller until you get what you want. Mark it and make another, for your next desired load.

[VariableRecall]

When you go to the range you will find empty 22 brass all over the place. Scarf up a handful. Start by soldering a piece of wire to the base for a handle, and scoop up some powder and weigh it. File it smaller until you get what you want. Mark it and make another, for your next desired load.

I suppose that I could also use any other brass that I come across that's in rough enough shape to not load. Perhaps some of my brass rejects could have a second life this way...

[Bazoo]

Nice looking cartridges. It appears the crimp is right where it should be in both amount and location.

You can sacrifice your lee dipper and sand it off to make it less volume.

[Petrol & Powder]

270180

I've done it! I've loaded my first 48 rounds thanks to all of you nice people! I can't appreciate you all enough!
158 gr SWC, loaded with 3.6gn of Win 231.

Just a quick question, are there any Lee Dippers that are in sizes between the ones in the Lee Dipper Set? The 0.3 Dipper rounds out to 3.2 grains, but the next one, 0.5, makes it about 4.1 grains.
Is there a 0.4 Lee Dipper out there?

You're up and running !

And for powder dippers you can use empty casings filed down to give the volume you desire. A .22 LR casing will hold about 3.1 grains of ww231. A 22 mag casing (or a 25 ACP or 32 ACP, etc. ) could also be trimmed to give whatever volume you desire.

Bazoo's suggestion of filing down a Lee dipper is also a possibility. If you customize any dippers make certain you label them well.

You did an excellent job on those first reloads.

[JimB..]

They look great!

[VariableRecall]

Has anyone else loaded 158gn SWC's? If you have, what are your preferred loads for this configuration?
According to the manual I'm using, the range of safety is 3.6gn to 4.0gns.

Would 3.8 be a reasonable middle ground for the next one?

[Petrol & Powder]

Has anyone else loaded 158gn SWC's? If you have, what are your preferred loads for this configuration?
According to the manual I'm using, the range of safety is 3.6gn to 4.0gns.

Would 3.8 be a reasonable middle ground for the next one?

Now you've done it [smilie=s:

The 158gr LSWC is just about THE load for 38 Special. You're going to get a phone book worth of responses.

The 38 Special absolutely thrives on bullets in the 150-160 grain weigh range and some fast burning powder.
Bullseye, ww231, AA#2, Unique, etc. are all favorites.

My standard load is a roughly 158 gr LSWC with 3.5 grains of Bullseye.
I've burned truckloads of WW231 behind the same bullet with somewhere between 4.1 and 4.5 grains.

I think you can safety step up your load to the neighborhood of 4.0 grains of ww231 [HP-38] using a 158gr LSWC bullet.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You can find spare dippers on the usual suspects (epay, amazon) but they aren't free. Might be worth it for you, or might not. Fired 22LR or 22Mag brass would make dippers, so would other tired brass etc.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Also, VariableRecall;

The older black dipper set made by Lee Custom Engineering has dippers calibrated in cubic inches; the two smaller ones are,

0.020 in^3 = 0.3277 cc
0.039 in^3 = 0.6301 cc

So neither is quite what you want, but good to be aware of them.

[VariableRecall]

Also, VariableRecall;

The older black dipper set made by Lee Custom Engineering has dippers calibrated in cubic inches; the two smaller ones are,

0.020 in^3 = 0.3277 cc
0.039 in^3 = 0.6301 cc

So neither is quite what you want, but good to be aware of them.

Also, I have a brass trimmer handy, so that would make trimming down a bad peice of brass pretty straightforward.

[sniper]

Get 38/357 carbide dies.

Three44s

Carbide dies are a GOODNESS! I don't remember how many decades I've been using mine! Lee makes good stuff, but I am a dyed in the wool RCBS fanboy. I started reloading by borrowing my Brother in Law's Lee Classic loader...the one you had to hammer on...till he made me give it back! That and his ooooold Lyman manual. Get yourself a good manual, and read it "kiver to kiver"! Be careful, and take your time, double-checking everything!

[sniper]

welcome to the addiction.

The only thing i could add would be to swing by the big box store, and get a couple of sturdy, and decent size 'c' clamps.

I found the big ones work well to hold the press on your dining room table.:bigsmyl2:

yesss!

[VariableRecall]

yesss!

Interesting to see the thread get revived. I'll have you know that I'm well off the ground when it comes to reloading. I've now got a Lee 4-die Turret Press, a Lee 4-20 casting pot, and a couple thousand rounds of experience! My current favorite load for my 10-5 is 148gn wadcutters at about 3.8-4gn Win 231/HP-38.

I've got my own little table as well, made out of a Harbor Freight table saw mount and some scrap plywood. I've wouldn't have made it without all of your help! Thank you!

[gwpercle]

If you want to make your own dippers for HP-38/231 powder :

22 short case = 2.5 grs.
3 cc Lee yellow plastic scoop = 3.3 grs.
22 Long Rifle case = 3.7 grs
22 CCI Mini-Mag case = 4.0 grs. (to get a 3.8 dipper , trim the Mini-mag case just a wee bit )
25 acp case = 4.0 grs.

I make handles with #12 copper wire , solder wire to brass case and form a loop for handle .
I have a note book that cotains what each dipper will dip (grs. powder) with every powder I use .

For instance the 22 short dipper will dip :
1.8 grs. of 700X.
2.5 grs. Bullseye
2.8 grs. Tightgroup
3.4 grs. Acc #2
2.0 grs. Unique
Interesting how the volume of the 22 short case doesn't change but the weight of the different powders vary so greatly !

I didn't read all the back pages but did read about dippers and I find dipper charging cheap , easy and safe .

Gary