Yay or nay? Casting noob needs your feedback...

[diyahbeetuz]

Today, I finally did something that I've always wanted to do ever since I got in sport shooting - casting my own boolits. A few weeks back I managed to source an Isotope Core that weighed about 24lbs, was quite a chore melting it down to ingots. I added 1/4lb of 95Sn/5Cu solid wire to it, hoping that the end result would be good enough for what I intend to use it for which is steel plate shooting. And so earlier today I unboxed and assembled my Lee Production Pot, degreased and smoked my 356-124-2R, filled the pot with the ingots and plugged it in. Took me about 2.5 hrs to do the entire 24.25 lbs of alloy, and yielded a little over 1400 boolits. I did a scratch test on one of these boolits and an HSM 125gr Hard Cast RN I had laying around. Even with water quenching it seemed to be just a tiny bit softer than the HSM bullets I have, but I imagine that its not going to be an issue especially when I'm done PC'ing and sizing them.

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Now I'm showing a photo of the resulting boolits I casted, and I am in need of your honest feedback - how did I do for my first time? Also what do the speckling on the boolits mean? I appreciate everyone's input.

[Ozark mike]

Looks like ya got some inclusions. What was the melts temp and did you flux

[kungfustyle]

Powder coat them up and give them a go. Good job. Next time do flux but shouldn't be an issue with powder coating. How's the weather up there now?

[monadnock#5]

You did a heck of a lot better than I did the first time out. Don't let it go to your head though. We all have a tale of misfortune to tell.

[GregLaROCHE]

Looks like you have an interesting alloy. A lot of casters try to get copper into their alloy. They say it makes the boolits not harder, but tougher. I think you need to have some antimony in the alloy for it to harden with water quenching. Maybe others will confirm or deny that. Looks like there were some impurities in the lead, but that’s a good job for your first try. Either powder coat or grease them and they should shoot fine.
Did you weigh them? If you have impurities, that can effect boolit weight. No reason not to shoot them. Just keep the same weights together when shooting, if you’re looking for fine accuracy.
Welcome to the addiction !

[StuBach]

I believe it’s the trace arsenic your looking for to get harness increase when water quenching. Reason a lot of casters like wheel weights is cause it has said trace amounts of arsenic to add this ability.

That being said, and someone else please correct me if I’m wrong, you shouldn’t need it terribly hard unless your going for high pressure loads.

Quality and fill out looks nice. Agree on the inclusions, get into wood working or make friends with a cabinet maker so you have plenty of sawdust around. If you can find a friend who does bee keeping even better, nothing beats free bees wax for fluxing.

[Hutch556]

Bullets look great for first time, like others have said next time flux the pot a couple times. Saw dust and candle wax both work well for this. Bullets should shoot fine though. Nice job.

[Wayne Smith]

Yup, inclusions are from dirty alloy. Stir in some sawdust, let it carbonize (it is the carbon that does the job) and stir it into the mix. When it comes to the top scrape it off and dump it. It will have most of your impurities in it. If you get a skim of material on your melt that is the tin oxidizing out - and wax puts it back into the melt. Candle, crayon, beeswax, it really doesn't matter. Put a little wax on your melt and light the smoke, it will burn and you won't have the smell. You will notice you have a shiny surface on your pot again.

But then, you used up all your alloy with your casting! They do look good and very shootable. Hope you can access more alloy.

[Rich/WIS]

If I understand it correctly the bullets freshly cast will age harden and you need to wait a few days before you get the true hardness.

[diyahbeetuz]

Yup, inclusions are from dirty alloy. Stir in some sawdust, let it carbonize (it is the carbon that does the job) and stir it into the mix. When it comes to the top scrape it off and dump it. It will have most of your impurities in it. If you get a skim of material on your melt that is the tin oxidizing out - and wax puts it back into the melt. Candle, crayon, beeswax, it really doesn't matter. Put a little wax on your melt and light the smoke, it will burn and you won't have the smell. You will notice you have a shiny surface on your pot again.

But then, you used up all your alloy with your casting! They do look good and very shootable. Hope you can access more alloy.

The thing is, I did that already when I melted down the core into ingots. I carbonized some sawdust and took out the crap, then I tossed in small chunks of Parowax, lit it up and stirred away. I did this process 4 times, alternating between sawdust and wax. I was still getting some material on top when I skim the surface but it was this metal-looking substance which was probably Tin like you said, and so I waxed it again. I thought it was a relatively clean alloy before I started pouring it in my ingot molds, but its not like a "flawless" mirror-like surface on top. There were still traces of where I dragged my spoon across the surface to skim it. What I just now realized is that everything else in my bullet casting equipment was brand new and the only thing I really got to clean was the mold. I used my Lee pot and lead ladle straight from the packaging, that's probably where the crap came from. I did a little bit of parowax in the Lee pot after all the lead was melted, but I skipped the sawdust. Should I have put in the sawdust as well?

Also, I've read posts from other folks saying that the Lee pot could be somewhat inconsistent in keeping temperatures even. What is the ideal bullet casting temperature range inside the melt? About powder coating, some said that baking negates the hardening and quenching will need to be done again after putting on the PC, is this true?

[diyahbeetuz]

Looks like ya got some inclusions. What was the melts temp and did you flux

When I was smelting down the core into ingots, temp ranged between 700-750. Kinda hard to keep it consistent because when I bring down the melt to 650 the sides start to solidify (it's kinda cold out here in Alaska). But in the Lee pot when I was actually casting boolits, it was around 700. Yes, I fluxed 4 times before I poured the alloy into ingots, then a few pieces of wax before I cast the boolits.

[diyahbeetuz]

Looks like you have an interesting alloy. A lot of casters try to get copper into their alloy. They say it makes the boolits not harder, but tougher. I think you need to have some antimony in the alloy for it to harden with water quenching. Maybe others will confirm or deny that. Looks like there were some impurities in the lead, but that’s a good job for your first try. Either powder coat or grease them and they should shoot fine.
Did you weigh them? If you have impurities, that can effect boolit weight. No reason not to shoot them. Just keep the same weights together when shooting, if you’re looking for fine accuracy.
Welcome to the addiction !

I just happen to come across a few spools of "Aquaclean" solid wire so I thought I would put then to good use. Paid $10 for three 1lb spools at a garage sale, I think that was a good deal. I do have a few pounds of antimony and a couple pounds of pure tin wire coming in the mail next week, so I'll try doing the Lyman 2 next time around. Any tips on dealing with Sb? I heard its a much tougher metal to melt and needs to be submerged in the pot?

I will weigh a few of them just to test consistency overall. I use middle load averages for the powder I have so pressures should be safe even if the boolit weight is off by a few grains.

[diyahbeetuz]

Powder coat them up and give them a go. Good job. Next time do flux but shouldn't be an issue with powder coating. How's the weather up there now?

I will be doing just that later today, thank you for the feedback. Weather has been pretty nice lately, although that winter smell in the air is becoming more and more noticeable, definitely colder now.

[Conditor22]

The boolits you cast have a nice shape

I normally cast between 700 and 720° only going higher when I cast pure lead.
Quench only after PC quenching before can contaminate the boolits (if the water isn't really clean ) and PCing takes out most of what is gained from the first quench. most of the time you won't need sugper hard boolits

https://i.imgur.com/uclR2g1.png
https://i.imgur.com/m4B3XnO.png

looks like there is something in your alloy. I flux several times first with pine sawdust then wax (I don't remove the pine sawdust to do the wax) when I smelt then I repeat the process once in my casting pot.

I gave up on watching the temperature in first my pot then oven. Adding PID's to them made life soo much easier. just set the desired temperature and forget. the PID gets the temperature there and keeps it there with only slight fluctuations.

try spraying your pot and ladle down with brake cleaner and see if that helps.

for short range handgun shooting, a coat of PC and size to .358

The 2 biggest problems loading 9MM

The 2 biggest problems/causes of failure with loading cast in 9MM are OVER-CRIMPING & downsizing the boolit when seating.
The 9MM has a tapered case.

Crimping, I use the Lee FCD and only crimp to where the boolit won't move when the cartridge is pushed against a hard object.

For seating I like the NOE neck sizing dies so much I talked with a member ob CB who made a Lee powder through die with the NOE profile of several different diameters. I've had good luck expanding the brass using the same diameter expanding plug as the boolit diameter (brass springs back .001 after expanding and that.
.001 does the job holding the boolit in place!

A 38spcl/357mag expander plug should work also

I used to expand the neck with the NOE neck sizing die the use the Lee powder through setup to charge the case.

Ues a kinetic boolit puller and make sure you're not downsizing the boolit in either of these operations.

this will go a long way toward tightening up your groups and preventing leading/tumbling

[rcslotcar]

Those look pretty darn good. The boolits will harden in a few days and powder coating will help. The Lee pots are good but there are better ones used out there. Good luck with your casting !!!

[popper]

Your isocore is probably 94/4/2, adding the wire upped the tin a tad and added almost NO copper. Save it for when you need the tin. New pot will sluff some metal from the pot for a while (as will the ladle), just keep using wax to clean. Sawdust usually stays in the alloy, gets into the valve and causes problems - for bottom drippers. Just PC and shot them,they are fine. i assume its 9mm, may need to WD after PC cooking.

[Winger Ed.]

Looks good, and it always feels good to 'beat the system'.

Don't be afraid of fluxing it too much, and I stir every 10-15 minutes or so to be sure
the alloy doesn't try to stratify the way muddy water does if ya let it sit still very long..

[WHITETAIL]

Welcome from the lower 48,
I would say you are on the way
to the insaniety .
My advice is keep it simple.
You will get better with time.

So WELCOME

WHITETAIL:drinks:

[diyahbeetuz]

Thank you for all the info, I appreciate it!

[bmortell]

my main critique would be making 1,400 of something when your not sure if there casted well or correct alloy for the gun ect. why not make 50 and test them before going all in.

[diyahbeetuz]

my main critique would be making 1,400 of something when your not sure if there casted well or correct alloy for the gun ect. why not make 50 and test them before going all in.

I took it as a practice run of some sort just to get the hang of casting. Everything I did so far was my first time, so it was worth the few hours of work. You have a good point though, I'll keep that in mind next time I cast, thank you.

[diyahbeetuz]

Boolits prior to sizing. Axalta Powder Coating (eBay). Single coat, dry tumble. 15 mins @ 380. Dumped into a wire tray, will probably stand them up next time for cleaner and uniform coating.
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Tested the PC, smashed with a hammer 5 times on top of an anvil. Pretty good bond, no significant chipping.
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Post-sizing. I don't think any paint came off but if some did then it was very minimal.
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Lost 3 rounds to the case gauge, probably had some cases with the "Glock bulge". Otherwise they look good.
356-124-2R mold
Mixed range brass
4.0gr Universal
Federal SMPP
1.125 Average COL
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Will be testing soon, I hope the accuracy is acceptable at least for plinking. Thanks everyone for the feedback.

[diyahbeetuz]

Yup, inclusions are from dirty alloy. Stir in some sawdust, let it carbonize (it is the carbon that does the job) and stir it into the mix. When it comes to the top scrape it off and dump it. It will have most of your impurities in it. If you get a skim of material on your melt that is the tin oxidizing out - and wax puts it back into the melt. Candle, crayon, beeswax, it really doesn't matter. Put a little wax on your melt and light the smoke, it will burn and you won't have the smell. You will notice you have a shiny surface on your pot again.

But then, you used up all your alloy with your casting! They do look good and very shootable. Hope you can access more alloy.

Well, the guy I bought the isocore from shot me an offer, and I couldn't resist. He wanted $250 for a dozen, so I got some more. That's about a dollar and 5 cents per pound of clean alloy that could be used straight up to cast boolits. My wife is going to kill me now LMAO.

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[Minerat]

Your lost now, the bug has you and it will only get worse. Before long you will have more molds in sizes you don't have guns for, then it's dies, then a shell holder and finally brass. Then you will need a 45-70 1874 Sharps so you can use them and are willing to wait 2 years after ordering it. All cause you got that $50.00 mould. So welcome aboard and your boolits will shoot just fine.:cbpour:

[farmbif]

that's quite the score of a nice clean alloy. got me wondering exactly what an isocore is composed of. but 9mm only shoots at about a max velocity of 1200fps, and power coating you should be good to go for a long time.

[Winger Ed.]

. My wife is going to kill me now LMAO.

You might get by with only a bad limp unless you tell her ya got the money out of her shoes and make up fund.:bigsmyl2:

[reddog81]

Congrats on the good looking bullets and congrats on scoring more lead. With fewer lead wheel weights out there having a source of lead is a huge benefit.

How’d you melt form the cores into ingots?

[diyahbeetuz]

Congrats on the good looking bullets and congrats on scoring more lead. With fewer lead wheel weights out there having a source of lead is a huge benefit.

How’d you melt form the cores into ingots?

I put the smaller, upper part of the core into the pot, melt it, then slowly introduce the rest of the core into the alloy. I also applied heat towards the sides of the core while the bottom is melting using a propane torch. Took about 10 mins for the whole thing to start melting consistently.

[diyahbeetuz]

Did a quick range trip this afternoon to test the rounds. I think I got lucky on this one, maybe I don't have to melt down all the boolits I casted yesterday lol. Target at 15ft, shot out of a Canik TP9SA Mod 2. Yes, my sights are off and I need to get it adjusted.

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I'm calling my first try a success. Thanks to the resources on this site and to everyone who chimed in and gave their 2 cents :razz:

[cstrickland]

I started by using COWW that I got locally from a fellow caster. I then bought 55# of ISO core and found it to be just as good as the COWW in my 9mm and a few other calibers.

I actually just go another #165 pounds of small ISO canisters from my source , as it works great. the canisters are bare(vs painted),so there is virtually no contamination. So little in fact I typically melt the canisters right in my pot and start casting . I will certainly get another couple hundred pounds when he has more.

Great score on that and for a great price as well. Should keep you shooting for a few months at least !! LOL

great job for first time for sure !!

hard for me to tell looking at the pictures if that is really dirt in there. Are you able to pick anything out, or are they just pits that reflect shadow differently then the rest of the bollit ?? Kinda looks like dings or dents from say dropping a hot bullet on another.

[fredj338]

As others noted, quite a few inclusions, plus never been a fan of TL designs. Try fluxing with sawdust. Stir the casting pot with a wooden stick every time you add metal.

[Kosh75287]

Have you weighed them? You might weigh 20 of them & see what kind of an average & standard deviation you come up with. It depends on the use you put them to, but if you get weight variations over about 3%, it can affect accuracy more than you like. Of course, this depends on application and distances.

[RogerDat]

I would just recommend sawdust flux for in the big pot making ingots, nothing but clean lead in the casting pot. Lead going into casting will develop skim of dross from oxidation. In casting pot a small bit of wax from time to time and a small household table spoon to skim should be all that is needed there.

There has been some discussion on PC temperatures. I think 400* rather than 380* is the more generally advised temperature to use. You should be able to set the bullet on it's base and pound it to half height without any PC coming off. Bullet laid on it's side again should be able to pound to half thickness without PC coming off. Hammer strike can "thin" it some, even enough to see lead but no flaking or peeling.

PC lube is tough enough that it allows use of softer alloys for a given load. E.G. For 38/357 I might use 50/50 mix of WW & lead BHN of around 10.5 with PC that works fine. Bullet expands into rifling of barrel well (obturation) in the short time it is in barrel. For a hotter load I might want to go WW+tin for a BHN of around 12. Or Lyman #2 if I know my bullet size is a good fit for the barrel.

Softer lead will provide more obturation (marshmallow kicked in the butt expands, lead does too, just not as much) and yield potentially a better fit to the rifling. Less expensive alloy used is a bonus.

You should contact member BNE who for a pound of lead and a pea sized sample will provide an XRF analysis of the alloy. Then you will know exactly what you have there in good supply. My own guess is you have alloy suitable for cutting with some plain lead and probably don't need more tin. You might want to drill a sample and melt to send in to BNE as well as a sample from an ingot. Just to confirm you ingot making isn't stripping excessive tin out.

Copper is nice for hollow points, supposed to help prevent them from fragmenting. More an issue for hunters who want that bullet mass to stay together rather than become a bunch of little pieces lacking penetration.

[RogerDat]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?370234-Most-people-ARE-NOT-baking-PC-long-enough

Post on baking PC long enough. There is some debate and discussion. I will say I once left some in a touch too long, alloys melt at lower temps than plain lead. These were Lyman #2 I made bullets for shooting around corners, at least that is what I tell people who saw the slumped over bullets.

[diyahbeetuz]

hard for me to tell looking at the pictures if that is really dirt in there. Are you able to pick anything out, or are they just pits that reflect shadow differently then the rest of the bollit ?? Kinda looks like dings or dents from say dropping a hot bullet on another.

Can't really pick out anything, it's like it's just paint tarnish or something. It's most likely just some ash or crap from my Lee pot since I didn't get to degrease the thing before using it the first time. Thank you for the feedback!

[Dukeconnor]

You know you've crossed over, when you call the winter pothole season, "wheel weight season".

[AndyC]

Welcome aboard, new caster :) Satisfying, isn't it? :)