crimps?

[redhawk44]

do any of you guys notice a difference in accuracy when shooting cast bullets in a revolver, that is related to the crimp?

That is a heavy crimp as opposed to a light crimp, or even no crimp?:roll:

[44man]

No, I made extensive tests years ago with the .44 for silhouette. I used from hard enough to ruin brass to no crimp, shooting one at a time. With proper case tension group sizes didn't change enough to warrant any more crimp then what it takes to hold boolits in from recoil.
Even the tight groups I get with the .475 and 45-70 only use a moderate crimp. Even with the fierce recoil I never have boolits move.
If your dies give poor case tension or your boolits are so soft that the brass sizes when seating, then maybe a tight crimp will help but I can't prove it because I don't shoot that way.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
I agree... light to heavy crimp makes a difference in my 41 mag revolvers. I see more change when there is less neck tension. Also the powder (slow compared to fast buring) will show difference.Bottom line as I see it I use what I call a mediun crimp on all and about .003 neck tension. After I have my accuracy load I try a little difference in crimping.
In my bolt guns I use a roll crimp into whatever grove (crimp or grease) that gives me the best accuracy. Usually it is the groove that gives me the closest to or touching the rifling but still functions through the action. Unless I decide to use them as single shots.

[Snapping Twig]

Not all powders demand it, but W296/H110 certainly does with either cast or jacketed.

Uniform crimp is important for any load when accuracy is the goal.

BR takes it an extra step in uniforming case neck dimentions for consistency, this in addition to case uniformity through volume, headstamp and lot.

[44man]

Not all powders demand it, but W296/H110 certainly does with either cast or jacketed.

Uniform crimp is important for any load when accuracy is the goal.

BR takes it an extra step in uniforming case neck dimentions for consistency, this in addition to case uniformity through volume, headstamp and lot.
Your only true statement for revolvers was "uniform". Trim cases and crimp the same. You do NOT need harder crimp for those powders, only case tension. All of my testing was done with 296. No crimp at all shot as good as severe crimp. That little fold of brass offers no resistance to make powder burn. A primer with no powder will blow a boolit out of the case. With poor case tension the primer will blow the boolit AND all of the powder out before it burns.
Another condition can happen with a hard crimp on dead soft boolits. The crimp will not open all the way and will scrape the boolit smaller as it is forced through it. When you take brass out of the gun and see some crimp left, you better start to harden the boolits. Two counts against too soft, sized when seating and crimp damage. Yet everyone says to soften boolits for more accuracy! :confused:
I have seen thousands of .38 wad cutter cases that were still crimped after shooting. Guns were solid lead in and out.
Why fit boolits to the throats and then ruin them?

[redhawk44]

Your only true statement for revolvers was "uniform". Trim cases and crimp the same. You do NOT need harder crimp for those powders, only case tension. All of my testing was done with 296. No crimp at all shot as good as severe crimp. That little fold of brass offers no resistance to make powder burn. A primer with no powder will blow a boolit out of the case. With poor case tension the primer will blow the boolit AND all of the powder out before it burns.
Another condition can happen with a hard crimp on dead soft boolits. The crimp will not open all the way and will scrape the boolit smaller as it is forced through it. When you take brass out of the gun and see some crimp left, you better start to harden the boolits. Two counts against too soft, sized when seating and crimp damage. Yet everyone says to soften boolits for more accuracy! :confused:
I have seen thousands of .38 wad cutter cases that were still crimped after shooting. Guns were solid lead in and out.
Why fit boolits to the throats and then ruin them?

That is what I was wondering about.

I have a load that shot pretty good in the .44 mg. so I decided to load a box in new brass. I trimed all cases for uniform length, sized and expanded the mouths with the same dies as before, and loaded the same load as before, except that while I was at it, I increased the crimp.

Now it does not shoot as well.

That got me to wondering about just the factor that you mentioned above.

Now I have been loading ammunition for over 50 years, shotgun, handgun and rifle, but I never took cast bullets seriously enough to learn the proper proceedure.

This is a learning experience for me and I appreciate the input.......one and all.:-D

[44man]

The only thing I do is to load six or five depending on the gun, Shoot five or four and take out the last to see if the boolit moved. I increase the crimp a LITTLE if it moved. In my opinion, that is the only thing the crimp should be used for.
You can fire more leaving the same one unfired if you want.
I only crimp rifle loads for a tube magazine or one with tremendous recoil.

[Tn_River_Ratt]

I have learned to use a firm crimp in my Super Redhawk when loading to the upper limits of the 454. The bullets will move out due to the recoil


Tn_River_Ratt

[cbrick]

Here are the results of 357 Mag crimp tests I did a few years ago in a Freedom Arms model 83. 44man is correct, uniform case tension is the key, not the crimp. Hope this helps.

Rick

Profile crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1518
S.D. 9

Roll crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1520
S.D. 9

No crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1528
S.D. 9

Light profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized
E.S. 26
A.V. 1532
S.D. 8

My normal profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized
E.S. 26
A.V. 1536
S.D. 8