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View Full Version : 38 special and 357 mag snake shot loads with 357 maximum brass.



BK7saum
09-09-2020, 11:00 PM
I know there are several threads devoted to this topic,, but couldn't find a recent one to add to. So, I figured I'd just start a new one.

I recently purchased some 357 maximum brass and wanted to see how heavy of a payload I could load.

I loaded six to fit my model 15 38 special cylinder. I loaded six more sized to fit my 686, 19, and model 60 357 magnum cylinders.

The payload of "dust + 1 hornady .30 cal gas check was 175 grains. I loaded 4 grains of 700x and a cardboard overpowder wad.

I haven't shot any yet, but, holy cow, the pattern ought to be dense. That is 0.34 ounces of shot. Using #12 would be 788 pellets. Dust would be quiet a few more than that. Once I make sure that the load will work, I may load up #12 next time.

Been seeing a few snakes moving since the weather is cooling off.

My method........

#1. I used a 0.356 H&I die to size the neck down some (It still wouldn't fit the cylinder) I then used a 32 H&R seating die (0.330 ID) to further size the "neck" until the 357 maximum case would just fit the chamber in the cylinder. Obviously, I sized each batch of six differently to fit either the 38 special or 357 mag cylinders. (Any new loads, I may just size them to fit my 38 special and then they will work in all my revolvers.

I charged the case with 4 grains of 700x. and seated an over powder wad cut from a primer box.

The maximum brass held about 156-8 grains of lead shot "dust" that I bought here a few years ago. I tried a .30 cal gas check (Gator I think) that was too large to fit inside the case mouth. I then tried a Hornady. 30 cal gas check that was a perfect fit.

I settled the shot so that the upside down copper check was 0.005-0.010" below flush.

I used a 44 magnum round nose seater die (41 magnum RN seater was too narrow to fit the case mouth without catching on the OD of the case mouth) The 44 was a really good fit.

I basically roll crimped over the top of the check. A few have a slight rattle of shot, but most are compressed.

Once I fireform and check performance on these, they ought to hold even more shot.

The maximum brass in the 38 special model 15 reaches within a few thousandths of the end of the cylinder. I think the 357 cylinders are 0.100" longer.

I have several boxes of speer plastic shot shell capsules that I will never use. No way i can get close to the payload that the 357 max brass will hold. Right now I'm at almost 180 grains.

I'll try to get some pictures posted tomorrow, both of the loaded rounds and also of the rounds loaded into the cylinder to show the capacity.

siamese4570
09-10-2020, 07:10 AM
Looking forward to the pics. I did something similar with my 45 colt. Used 460 brass. Worked pretty well.
siamese4570

BK7saum
09-10-2020, 09:09 AM
267496
Sized to 38 special on bottom, sized to fit 357 mag on top.
267497
38 Special in front, 357 mag to the back
267498
Model 15 38 special on left, 686 357 on the right.
267499
Model 60, 357 3" adjustable sights. My walking around gun. I have a cross draw holster for it, so it sits left front out of the way when carrying rifle or shotgun in hand or slung.

Outpost75
09-10-2020, 11:32 AM
It is helpful to standardize on a testing methodology to compare handgun shotshells. I use the D1C repair center which has a 4-inch inner ring, an 8-inch outer ring and the repair center itself is 11 inches square. Here are some typical snake range patterns for factory Speer shot loads:

267511267512267513

BK7saum
09-10-2020, 11:50 AM
I will probably use the back of a full size target and draw a 4" and 8" circle. I plan to test at 5 and 10 ft, 5 feet being the minimum distance and 10 feet likely the maximum distance for slithering varmints.

cwlongshot
09-10-2020, 01:10 PM
I have taken to using a appropriate ball in place of a over shot card... As my shot loads are used frequently and having that projectile and supporting "field of shot" makes for Devastating Package on barn rats! That ball its actually very accurate!!

Simply weigh out the shot and ball so you have a weight ya desire and use a nitro card or wad to make up thicknesses.

Great thinking using longer brass to garner more shot capacity!!

CW

Outpost75
09-10-2020, 02:11 PM
I have taken to using a appropriate ball in place of a over shot card... As my shot loads are used frequently and having that projectile and supporting "field of shot" makes for Devastating Package on barn rats! That ball its actually very accurate!!

Simply weigh out the shot and ball so you have a weight ya desire and use a nitro card or wad to make up thicknesses.

Great thinking using longer brass to garner more shot capacity!! CW

Here are some patterns with standard .44-40 shot load vs. my .390 ball and 1/3 oz. of No.8 shot assembled in Starline 5 in 1 blank cases. Puts rabbits and birds in the pot to 25 feet.

267523267524267525267526267527267528

cwlongshot
09-10-2020, 03:23 PM
Love it!!

Cw

fcvan
09-10-2020, 03:34 PM
I always dropped powder, inserted a gas check with a pencil, filled with #9 shot, placed another check over the top, and crimped. I'd have to check my book, but it was a light load of Bullseye. Pattern spreads dramatically of course, due to the rifled barrel. I compensated by crouching near the snake and pointed the pistol in it's direction. Shortly, the snake would track the moving object as I waved the pistol slightly and wham, decapitation. Works every time.

I was deliberately hunting snakes for skins and chili meat in the Mojave desert. I also had a 2 shot derringer at the time which I carried only with bird shot, or the first 2 chambers in a S&W M13. If the hide wasn't a fresh shed, I let them go. A friend was 'upholstering' grip panels with snake skin, which looked great on parkerized 1911 grip panels. Lots of folks who bought parkerized weren't happy the gun came with plastic grips. Snake skin was a dandy fix.

When I moved to N CA, tree rats were a problem, so I shot them off the redwood limbs at dusk. I still have most of that 25 lb bag of #9, bought specifically for pistol loads. I have taken to making my own gas checks, both regular and soda can/plain base style checks. Both work equally well.

Outpost75
09-10-2020, 04:30 PM
I always dropped powder, inserted a gas check with a pencil, filled with #9 shot, placed another check over the top, and crimped. I'd have to check my book, but it was a light load of Bullseye. Pattern spreads dramatically of course, due to the rifled barrel...

Here is pattern from 2-inch snubby firing home-made .38 Special shot loads using Buffalo Arms card wads and 3.5 grains of Bullseye:

267536

BK7saum
09-12-2020, 01:59 PM
I shot a couple of the shot cartridges today. Very impressive, dense patterns at 15 feet or so. Penetrated both sides of an aluminum drink can.

indian joe
09-12-2020, 07:05 PM
I shot a couple of the shot cartridges today. Very impressive, dense patterns at 15 feet or so. Penetrated both sides of an aluminum drink can.

You guys are using overkill
22 winchester shot will anchor a snake easy - its all close range stuff - the 22 shot is light enough you can shoot one in the kitchen if you need - in around your gear in the workshop unless its in amongst glass bottles ..............................