Roll Crimping- how often do we need to?

[GregLaROCHE]

I think most people roll crimp too much and too often. Yes it may be needed at times for hunting rounds that risk getting bumped around and for high power tube fed guns. Also maybe to get sufficient powder burn. Most of the time if you are just going to a range to shoot, where I load one at a time, it’s overkill. I have stopped roll crimping and use a light taper crimp, if anything at all. I believe I will have increased case life by doing so. What do others think?

[Ozark mike]

Tighter crimps can help/hurt accuracy with slower powders and help with velocity spread

[DAFzipper]

If you load max charges for revolvers crimp is needed to keep bullets from walking out and binding cylinder rotation. Better burn of powder also. With light loads I've seated wadcutters with my thumb in 38 special and had no problems.

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[Petrol & Powder]

I taper crimp bottle neck rifle casings and rimless pistol casings but I still prefer a roll crimp for a straight wall revolver casing.

I think part of the key to long brass life is not over working the brass. Enough flare to get the bullet started without shaving lead and just enough crimp to turn the casing into the crimp groove will do the trick on all but heaviest magnums.

I seat and crimp in two operations, which allows much better control over those operations.

[greenjoytj]

Crimp application is another aspect of the reloading process that must be experimented with.
Single shot firearms may or may not require their cartridges to be crimped.
Revolvers and tube feed rifle will need some type of crimp applied to a repeatable amount.
How I apply the crimp is to screw the crimp die in against the raised press ram screw the crimp die down to touch the shell holder. This is the dies maximum crimp position. Looking down at the die body I put a black maker stroke at 12 o’clock. Backing the die out 1 full turn make zero crimp.
I envision the clock face and turn the die in hour by hour, each time removing the cartridge and examine the crimp. I stop applying crimp when it look right.
Shooting the firearm at targets may show a need for more or less crimp.
The reloading log book can record the hour of the day analogy time so the degree of crimp is repeatable.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

You don't like the Lee Factory Crimp Dies? I use them now for anything they make them for that I reload for. You can crimp just as light or hard as you desire. If you load something a LFCD isn't available for, then you're pretty well stuck with whatever your seating die will do, roll or taper. You're right in that if you're target shooting at the range and loading them into your rifle one at a time a crimp isn't always necessary. Some seating dies are made to such close tolerances that they give a really tight friction fit anyway.

[Mal Paso]

Most of my loads are full house 44 Mag and I have had bullets pull and tie up the cylinder. I like a full roll crimp and bullets with a deep crimp groove.

I have lapped my RCBS Cowboy Sizer so it does not oversize, the expander just confirms the inside diameter of the brass and adds a bell for the bullet. I get at least 30 reloads before splits get to the 5-10% range.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’m not a hand gun shooter, so I didn’t think about the need for a good crimp in a wheel gun, but that makes sense. I just think rolling the brass over that much, if you don’t need to, has got to stretch and thin it each time. I agree it is often needed, but maybe not as much we really need to.

[lightman]

I roll crimp all of my revolver loads. In all honesty I'm probably guilty of over crimping. You probably are extending your brass life by lightly taper crimping.

[mdi]

I don't load my "plinking" ammo any different than my SD, accurate "target" or hunting ammo. I use the same quality of components and the same "quality" methods, including crimp. I don't worry about case life, because my handloads are loaded to be as consistent as I can make them, whether the target is a soda can at 5 yards or a deer at 105 yards or a bad guy 20 feet on the other side of the room. I have a lot of brass for all my handload calibers, brass is still fairly cheap, and I don't shoot any guns that are obsolete or use cases that run $2.00 each. My "banging" loads are loaded to the same "precision" as my 308 target rounds (that gives me 7/8" groups on a good day).

Having said all that, I roll crimp, profile crimp, or collet crimp every revolver round the same, regardless of it's intended purpose. I taper crimp all my semi-auto handloads the same, regardless of it's intended purpose (actually I don't crimp at all I just "deflare"). All my rifle rounds that require a crimp are crimped the same. Why would I short cut one handload because it isn't used in a life or death situation, or that 12 point buck is standing still waiting to be turned into venison sausage? Besides, "shortcutting" leads to "sloppy" reloading. Sloppy reloading leads to squibs and KABOOMS...

[derek45]

I prefer bullets with a healthy crimp groove.

I prefer a good roll crimp on revolvers, especially magnum loads.

I would not shoot H110/win296 without a good roll crimp.

https://i.imgur.com/1WRlAs5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jYMC0hX.jpg

[onelight]

I don't know that there is a simple answer to many variables in cartridges and guns .

[jsizemore]

Can't say I've ever seen anybody anneal straight wall handgun brass. Every time you load and shoot the brass, the hardness changes and how much the brass springs back or doesn't. That affects powder ignition. That crimp helps keep the burn rate more consistent round to round and over time. Especially when you use mixed head stamp range pickup. Please don't believe me and shoot over the chronograph to see for yourself. I shot handgun metallic silhouette for years. Most folks were only concerned with minute of animal. As long as it got knocked over it was good. I managed 1" groups at 100 day in and day out shooting lead out of a 10" barrel.

[GregLaROCHE]

So if you are going to roll crimp, does everyone agree that Lee Factory Roll Crimp die, is the best way to go?

[onelight]

So if you are going to roll crimp, does everyone agree that Lee Factory Roll Crimp die, is the best way to go?
I have several brands of crimp dies they all work , I do use Lee more than others I like the way they adjust but they all will do a good roll crimp.

[charlie b]

I don't think there is any advantage to one roll crimp die over another. As long as you use the roll crimp separately from the bullet seating operation.

For bottleneck rifles Lee has the collet crimp die that is different than the others. It works really well for my Garand loads. Bolt actions do not get crimped cases.

My pistols get taper crimped if semi-autos and roll crimped if revolver.

[mdi]

So if you are going to roll crimp, does everyone agree that Lee Factory Roll Crimp die, is the best way to go?

No, No, No! For roll crimping 98% of the crimps that come in a plain die set is sufficient, and wanted. More "precise" crimps are available with a Redding Profile Crimp die (a slightly different shape crimp) and some really consistent, accurate crimps can be had with a collet crimp die (I have 3 Lee collet crimp dies). I have not found any reason to post crimp resize any ammo I have assembled in 40+ years, but the experience with the Lee FCD, after I knocked out the carbide sizing ring, were just so-so, nuttin' to write home about.

[onelight]

None of my Lee carbide factory crimp dies post size any revolver loads I load . My fired cases unsized will push past the carbide ring by hand it does not even touch them if it did they would not chamber in my guns anyway.

[Mal Paso]

I thought FCD was a cuss word. Didn't know you could use it here.

[onelight]

I do believe there is a pole on forum for the Lee FCD The die gets a positive response by a big margin.

[Walks]

As a kid I learned the only rifle rounds to be crimped were those shot in a Garand, M1 Carbine, or similar auto loading rifle. And Lever Action rifle.
Case Neck tension held bullets in w/o any crimp. Still do it that way.

Revolver ammo is roll crimped only enough to keep the bullets from moving forward in the case.
The only time I ever had any trouble was with a .454 Casull. It needed a heavy roll crimp and a Taper Crimp after that.

Auto loading handgun ammo got A very light TC.

[charlie b]

I like the Lee Factory Crimp Dies. They are all I use since almost all my reloading dies are made by Lee.

But, a roll crimp is just a roll crimp. Any manufacturer's roll crimp die will work. Yes, the Lee FCD has the carbide ring in it, but, like stated above, it has never touched any of my resized cases unless I flared the case mouth too much.

I do wish Lee had a collet crimp die for revolver cases. It works really well on rifle cases.

[Bronzepocket]

I've loaded a bunch of different handgun loads with lyman, rcbs, and lee dies. They all do a nice roll crimp and I have never needed more. I think the trick is to match the crimp to the cartridge. 44mag needs more crimp than a 38. I don't crimp any rifle loads other than the 30-30 I load for a family heirloom.

[380AUTO]

I crimp EVERYTHING never had an issue I do prefer the LEE FCD for bottle neck cartridges brass seems to last forever but I do not load on the higher end loads

[onelight]

Isn't there an old saying about, "if a thousand people do something wrong, that don't make it right...".
I also have loaded 10s of thousands of loads without a FCD but I also now load 8 to 10 thousand rounds a year with them . The statement that every one that uses them are doing it wrong would be like saying don't buy Dillon dies I loaded six with one and the neck expander was to tight . That's just silly you would find an expander that works for your out of spec gun and bullets to make it work , you wouldn't say every one that buys Dillon dies does is it wrong. You would find what works for that application .

[charlie b]

Isn't there an old saying about, "if a thousand people do something wrong, that don't make it right...".

And if one person is doing it wrong that doesn't make it right either :)

[JM7.7x58]

The carbide lower ring in a LFCD in 40 s&w will reduce my cast bullets to .399”. It depends on the gun you are loading for. It depends on the cartridge. It depends on what type of bullet you are loading.

The LFCD works fine for jacketed in 40 s&w. When disassembled it can be used as a bulge buster. It is however a complete failure when used to crimp lead in my gun.

JM

[Three44s]

With respect to revolver loading:

Sometimes I crimp with the crimp function that comes with the seater die I am using.

Often it’s with a Lee FCD.

Sometimes it’s a Redding Profile crimp die (the best for just crimping).

Once in a while I stage my crimping operation as in reducing the degree of belling or eliminating it with one die, say my seater set down and finishing the crimp with a dedicated crimper.

I am a farmer. I understand the concept of bending bailing wire until it breaks quite well. Brass is no different.

I only bell to the point it’s necessary and roll crimp the same for the load and bullet at hand. When the brass lets go, it’s done. I do use a VLD inside neck case chamfering tool to facilitate bullets and boolits seating with less grabbing and catching.

My crimping etc varies with the load and I trim my cases to a uniform length, once at the begining to get consistent crimps and bells.

I saw a fellow loader on U Tube using a cordless screw driver with a wrench socket installed and fine steel wool stuffed in it. After trimming and chamfering he stuck the mouth of his cases in there and spun the steel wool to polish and smooth the case mouth inside and out. I think I will try that to ease starting lead and jacketed bullets. Makes sense and like trimming it’s pretty much a one off task much like trimming revolver brass is.

Three44s

[onelight]

Three 44s I also remove the bell in 2 stages I set my seating die to remove most of the bell and then finish it and crimp in a separate die .

[Jniedbalski]

For auto pistole rounds I have very few Of the lee FCD sized down my bullets. The ones That do size down I only push the round in Past the carbide sizer just Enuf to get the bell To straighten Out. If I really want more crimp I just use my seater die for more crimp. To me the lee Fcd and the seater dies both use the same style crimp. Some 38 special I have loaded at .360 .361 and in thick cases will size the bullet down .002 to .003. But they won’t usally chamber any way so

[dragon813gt]

II do wish Lee had a collet crimp die for revolver cases. It works really well on rifle cases.

They make them for some cartridges: https://leeprecision.com/lee-collet-style-crimp-die/

In regards to the FCD, they aren’t all the same. Some will size oversize bullets. You are technically shooting oversize bullets w/ cast since they are above SAAMI spec in most cases so you can’t blame the die. Other FCDs will not size oversize bullets. None of mine will size an oversize bullet so I use them as a crimp die.

Back to the original topic. I roll crimp everything since the die is already setup and I shoot a lot of H110/W296. So even if I switch to HP-38/W231 I leave it as is. If cases fail “prematurely” I will simply buy more. I don’t want to buy a new case after one firing. But if it lasts ten firings the cost would be $0.0147 per firing at Starline’s current pricing. Double the life and cost falls under a penny per round. Primers are more expensive so the cost is negligible. Components are consumables that I expect to have to replace.

[fcvan]

My opinion is only worth what you paid for it, but here goes. As stated in the many posts above, various cartridges and the various weapons they are fired in, call for a crimp or they don't. I only have Lee dies, majority straight wall pistol, some rifle, none of them FCD (shout out to Mal Paso) and I did not know the term was not to be used in this, um, church service. Hey, I go to church, but isn't this the place where we cast religiously?

Humor, or attempt thereof aside, I crimp as little as possible for all of the calibers I shoot. Yes, I crimp more for the actual hand cannons and lever gun. Well, I did that anyway as it is a 41 Magnum. Let the cartridge/gun tell you what it wants, then make dummy rounds so you can re-set your dies to the established standard. I used a turret press with individual turrets for each caliber because I like that. Still, when I change turrets I re-verify they are set.

The only dies I kind of change around are those for making gas checks, they have to be re-set anyway. The push through sizing dies are also on turrets but don't need any adjusting other than TDC. I hope you got your money's worth, Frank

[jsizemore]

So if you are going to roll crimp, does everyone agree that Lee Factory Roll Crimp die, is the best way to go?

Never used one. I've always used the crimp die that came with my die set.

[farmbif]

I put a firm roll crimp into everything that could be loaded into one of my lever actions, no need to roll crimp things that don't need it like 30-06, 308, 243 etc.

[Walks]

My experience with lee has been mostly poor.
In particular the crimp dies. I bought a fcd almost 20yrs ago on a rather insistent recommendation of a Fellow Cowboy Shooter. For .44-40; it worked like garbage. I soon discovered I had a .44mag die in a .44-40 package. called lee. They accused my of an untruth. I called Graf & Sons; who I had purchased the die from. They sent the correct die and a "call tag" to return the incorrectly packaged die.
I also tried the .38Spl & .45Colt roll crimp dies. My .45Colt .454 Bullets were squeezed down to .452dia, the .38Spl, well I just didn't like the crimp. Do Blasted hard to adjust.

I was given 2 lee die sets, so I could load ammo for handguns that I share in kind with a friend.
They are .38 S&W and .32S&W(S), they are a mixture of dies for .38Super and .32ACP respectively. They work like garbage too.
In My experience if you want a really good roll crimp ? Buy a Redding Profile Crimp Die.

The only lee die that has worked right for me has been a Taper Crimp Die for 40S&W. And the bullet size dies work well too.

And before anyone accuses me of being a lee hater, I do have some lee products.

Reloader press, 10 bullet size dies, 5 6cav molds, 8 2 cav molds, 2 taper crimp dies, Prod pot #4.
And the hand punch decappers, Large & Small.

But I'll never buy another new 2cav mold. They've cut away so much of the blocks, that they overheat within 2-3 pours.