Model 10 Smith strength enough to go to .357

[nelsonted1]

I have a friend who is crippled shoulder wise and needs to hunt with a pistol. Pistols are unobtanum at the moment so I got to thinking he could use my model 10 smith and wesson- model 10-11 made in 1999- if I had the cylender bored from .38 to .357. THe cylender wouldn't be marked and I am unable to shoot heavy pistol loads in anything so no one beyond me would know the cylender was extended.
He probably wont even hunt as badly hurt as he is. I would like to keep his outlook as good as I can. He certainly cant hunt with heavy enough loads to near heavy or +p territory.
The reason I can't put together +p .38 loads is I have a colt .38 match pistol i want to soldier on for the next several centuries and won't have any heavy 38 loads in my inventory. The colt is my pride and joy and I will not have the possibility it gets stressed by even one not weak-titted load.

So, is a model 10 built in 1999 strong enough to drill out to .357 for occasional shots in .357? I cannot shoot heavy loads in any pistols with my inventory of injuries so this thing will get shot at most ten or 15 times in magnum loads.

I'm having a little resistance from the nephew who will mill the holes to .357. He says get a .357. I say, suggest, it is a kframe like my long ago model 19 which was in .357. What say you?

Ted

[El Bibliotecario]

Since you asked...

I'd say this is like trying to remove a bolt with a too-big socket because you don't have the right size. You may get away with it---but if you bugger the bolt beyond removal, you'll wish you had used the proper tool. But I sense you have already made up your mind.

You point out that no one 'would know the cylender [sic] was extended.' I assume you mean the chambers. So if you sell it without disclosing what any ambulance chaser would call a potentially dangerous alteration...I suggest using your friend's ID.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

This is a very bad idea. The heat treatment of the Mod. 10 and the magnum models is different. I once knew a gunsmith and a Sheriff's Sgt. who did this on several Mod. 10s. S&W became aware of their conversions and sent them a very threatening letter from their legal department, explaining the difference in strength, and advising them that they'd face legal action if they didn't stop. You might get away with it for awhile, but maybe you'll have a hand grenade with the first shot. Don't do it.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm not following your logic even a little bit.

I'll just cut to the chase - don't do it.

[1006]

Answer: NO

FYI: even the K frame 357’s had know issues with repeated use of 357 loads—at least that is what I have read a few times in the gun magazines over the years.

Also, as Der said, I believe the heat treating is different.

[navyvet]

Is a .357 even legal for deer?

[nelsonted1]

So the thousands of 10-6 model tens that came in .357 were bombs? Did they blow up on the New York State police holsters or did they just blow up willie nillie? Maybe they were recalled by the Smith and Wesson people when the legal department realized what some fool did building all those guns for the unsuspecting police. Or maybe that was before a bunch of bitter, angry keyboard kings decided they could batter a person with a legit question. You keep this up you won't have people asking questions because of fear of public humiliation by some tight-fisted geniuses who know everything that has ever been learned or discovered by anyone.

[EMC45]

I'll say hunt with the .38. A 358-429 or even a 200 gr. bullet loaded over a stiff charge will sail through the lungs of a well hit deer. That is of course if .38 sepcial is legal in you area.

[MrWolf]

So the thousands of 10-6 model tens that came in .357 were bombs? Did they blow up on the New York State police holsters or did they just blow up willie nillie? Maybe they were recalled by the Smith and Wesson people when the legal department realized what some fool did building all those guns for the unsuspecting police. Or maybe that was before a bunch of bitter, angry keyboard kings decided they could batter a person with a legit question. You keep this up you won't have people asking questions because of fear of public humiliation by some tight-fisted geniuses who know everything that has ever been learned or discovered by anyone.

You asked for opinions and you got them. Don't criticize them for giving you an opinion you don't like. That is my opinion.

[Texas by God]

Load the +P .38s and give them to him with the m10. That way they will never be fired in your weaker .38. I wouldn't ruin the value of an m10 for a stunt like this as a + P .38 placed correctly will kill a deer just as effectively as a .357 Magnum. If he's in weak physical condition to hunt a rifle or shotgun is called for anyway.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[elmacgyver0]

I wouldn't, by the way what the heck is a "cylender"?
All my revolvers have cylinders.

If it makes you happy do it.
If for some reason your friend gets hurt you may be in a law suit.
This is even if you don't modify it.
Just something to think about.

[DougGuy]

You'll have to find a smith that pays the $2,200.00 annual "fee" as prescribed by the O **** stain EO of 7-22-2016 making conversions like the one you want to to from simple gunsmithing into "manufacturing." BATFE has the authority to go after those who don't ante up retroactively.

Just b/c it's a K frame (and S&W did indeed make K frame guns in 357 magnum) doesn't mean the cylinder is automatically strong enough to withstand magnum pressures.

I wouldn't do it. I would find another gun to hunt with. Who says it has to be a 357? If you can't come up with a decent 40 something caliber revolver to hunt with you aren't looking very hard.

[Winger Ed.]

So the thousands of 10-6 model tens that came in .357 were bombs? .

Sorry you got honest answers instead of confirmation bro.

That conversion might end up being like putting nitro-methane racing fuel in your car:
It'll work,,,,, at least for a little while.

[Drm50]

This is not smart or reasonable. A m10 is a fixed sight service revolver. It is a K frame but m19s that are K 357s are built heavier.

[Outpost75]

So the thousands of 10-6 model tens that came in .357 were bombs? Did they blow up on the New York State police holsters or did they just blow up willie nillie? Maybe they were recalled by the Smith and Wesson people when the legal department realized what some fool did building all those guns for the unsuspecting police. Or maybe that was before a bunch of bitter, angry keyboard kings decided they could batter a person with a legit question. You keep this up you won't have people asking questions because of fear of public humiliation by some tight-fisted geniuses who know everything that has ever been learned or discovered by anyone.

No model 10 was ever chambered by the S&W factory in .357, where did you get this info? Pure LGS BS.

The fixed sight NYSP .357s were not built on K-frames, they were L-frames.

[Walks]

Long time back. S&W made a run of M66 - 6" bbl'd for the LAPD. They were M66 but chambered for .38Spl as the Chief Ed Davis Did Not Allow .357Mag chambered revolvers to be carried, Period.
According to a Retired Armorer they did not have the Heat-Treated Cylinders of a Model 66.
These were all private purchases by individual officers through the Academy Armory Shop.
Basically M67 with M66 - 6"bb's.

[Nueces]

Another nail in the coffin of this idea is that K frame 357 cylinders (M13, M19, M65, M66) are longer than K frame 38 Special cylinders. Place a loaded 357 round along the side of your 38 cylinder to check this out.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Long time back. S&W made a run of M66 - 6" bbl'd for the LAPD. They were M66 but chambered for .38Spl as the Chief Ed Davis Did Not Allow .357Mag chambered revolvers to be carried, Period.
According to a Retired Armorer they did not have the Heat-Treated Cylinders of a Model 66.
These were all private purchases by individual officers through the Academy Armory Shop.
Basically M67 with M66 - 6" bbl's.

Hey--I remember those now. I had completely forgotten about them. Almost bought one as a PPC gun. I'll bet they're worth a premium now!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

So the thousands of 10-6 model tens that came in .357 were bombs? Did they blow up on the New York State police holsters or did they just blow up willie nillie? Maybe they were recalled by the Smith and Wesson people when the legal department realized what some fool did building all those guns for the unsuspecting police. Or maybe that was before a bunch of bitter, angry keyboard kings decided they could batter a person with a legit question. You keep this up you won't have people asking questions because of fear of public humiliation by some tight-fisted geniuses who know everything that has ever been learned or discovered by anyone.

I know what you're referring to here. S&W did make a run of Mod. 10s for NYSP, but if you research it you'll find that they received special heat treatment, as I have read many times. Try the Roy Jink's book, "History of Smith & Wesson." You're falling into the same trap the fellows I mentioned in my first post got deceived by. A Mod. 10 is a "K" frame, and a Mod. 65 or 19 is a "K" frame, but the heat treatment is different. These guys actually wrote an insulting letter to S&W and accused them of deception about the strength of a Mod. 10 in order to sell more revolvers of different models in .357. I wish we wouldn't have rubbed your feathers the wrong way, but if you don't believe us (after having asked!) why not call S&W and ask them. Phone calls now days are cheap, and they pay people to answer phones and talk to you. No one here wants to offend you, it's just that you have a bad idea; but, you're not the first to have it.

DG

[Lloyd Smale]

all that expense and work and you still have a lame deer hunting cartridge that in my opinion is going to be less effective or at best no more effective then a 180 cast out of a 40 smith. Plus you destroyed any value the smith 38 had because only an idiot would sell something like that to an unsuspecting buyer. No self respecting gun shop owner would touch it with a 10 foot pole. Id about bet if your buddy went on sites like buds hed find something that started with a caliber starting with .4 About the only guns in short supply at shops around here are 9s and snubby 38s. Not to many yuppies are flocking to the gun shop to stock up on 44 mags or 45 colts and most of them never heard of a 41 mag. You want to hunt deer with a pistol do it right or dont do it. Buy yourself something starting in .4 and shoot it extensively for a year till your competant with it. It makes me cringe to think that someone would punch out a model 10 or 15 and buy a box of 357 ammo and think there ready to kill a living creature humanely.

[dverna]

Great knowledge on this site. I learned a lot on this thread even though I would never consider doing the modification the OP is contemplating.

BTW, if your buddy cannot afford the proper gun, could you or another friend lend him one for the hunt? Have to agree with the poster who suggested a rifle or shotgun as a better option. There are low recoil shells for a 12 ga as well and they will be much more effective than any pistol.

[JSnover]

Any chance you could sell that Model 10, or trade it for anything else in .357? I aint no genius but would be my plan.

[MT Gianni]

I have a friend who is crippled shoulder wise and needs to hunt with a pistol. Pistols are unobtanum at the moment so I got to thinking he could use my model 10 smith and wesson- model 10-11 made in 1999- if I had the cylender bored from .38 to .357. THe cylender wouldn't be marked and I am unable to shoot heavy pistol loads in anything so no one beyond me would know the cylender was extended.
He probably wont even hunt as badly hurt as he is. I would like to keep his outlook as good as I can. He certainly cant hunt with heavy enough loads to near heavy or +p territory.
The reason I can't put together +p .38 loads is I have a colt .38 match pistol i want to soldier on for the next several centuries and won't have any heavy 38 loads in my inventory. The colt is my pride and joy and I will not have the possibility it gets stressed by even one not weak-titted load.

So, is a model 10 built in 1999 strong enough to drill out to .357 for occasional shots in .357? I cannot shoot heavy loads in any pistols with my inventory of injuries so this thing will get shot at most ten or 15 times in magnum loads.

I'm having a little resistance from the nephew who will mill the holes to .357. He says get a .357. I say, suggest, it is a kframe like my long ago model 19 which was in .357. What say you?

Ted

I think the best option is to learn to shoot a rifle or shotgun left handed.

[nelsonted1]

First of all I should apologize. I lashed out which I never do. I found a long time ago if I let myself go I lash out with sarcasm which never turns out well. Usually.

THe problem my friend has is he is 70 with a very bad shoulder who insists he can't handle my bolt action 12 gauge with round balls going so slow you can almost see them. They'll go through tree limbs without heavy recoil and is light enough to carry easily. Same with my 20 gauge Mossberg. Too much recoil to his shoulder. He says his left shoulder is bad enough he can't hold a long arm up. Its just impossible.

I have a TC contender in 300 whisper and 357 maximum. Problem with those is he won't practice enough to get muscle memory to use them. I'd load a thousand rounds if he'd practice.

He does have autos in 9mm, 40mm and 45 acp that he does practice with and is comfortable looking through the open sights with them so the transition to a revolver wouldn't be nearly as tough as the contender. He is also searching for a .357 but no luck so far.

He's hunted with us off and on for 35 years. He could keep up to us walking day after day without a problem. I had a painting business and he'd talk me into helping him with remodeling apartment buildings. He could push 3/4" plywood sheets up a 40 foot ladder like he was superman. Now, suddenly, he is old.

The deer he'd likely shoot would be parading by his deck 15 feet away at dawn and dusk. He'd have to sort through them for a big one but would probably get one.

I know I could go 38+p with the model ten but I am paranoid over having heavy .38 loads getting into my colt .38sp. I am also paranoid over having even normal 45 acp loads around with my 1911s having 8lb springs in them. It was easy when I had .44 mag pistols- light loads in 44 sp medium or heavy in .44 mag. Same with having a 357 mag pistol- light loads in .38 sp the rest in 357.

So, I apologize for lashing out. I have a pain disability and sometimes I get so desperate I don't know where to turn and usually hide from people when I am suddenly that desperate. This time I didn't.

Ted

[Nueces]

Spoken like a gentleman, thank you, Sir. If I were closer, I'd be happy to lend y'all a big bore for hunting season.

[Outpost75]

nelsonted1, I understand your frustration.

Your friend would probably be well served firing .38 Special wadcutters in an Airweight .38 snub. Or if he wants a more effective factory load Buffalo Bore loads a "full-charge" wadcutter. The Speer 135-grain Gold Dot "short barrel" load is also effective and has manageable recoil. These loads give up little in performance compared to .45 ACP 230-grain FMJ

267354267355267353

[Groo]

Groo here
Check in Buffelo Bore "Sportsman" 38+p and Underwood 158 gr +p "Keith" ...
Both are +p Which S&W says the M-10 is just fine with and is close to 357 loads.......
No mods needed!!!!!!!!!!!

[Winger Ed.]

THe problem my friend has is he is 70 with a very bad shoulder


Well said.
As sad as it is, I have learned that as we get older, the list of things we can't do anymore gets longer.

This may be what's happening to your buddy, as it did me, and for some of my life long friends.

[onelight]

Is his .40 or .45 legal to use in your state ?

[bedbugbilly]

Back to converting a model 10 to 357 . . . . . the cylinder is chambered for 38 special as is th length of the cylinder - how would it even be feasible to ream the chambers to accept the extra length of the 357 casing and then chamber a 357 round without the bullet extending beyond the cylinder and have it cycle? I'm not "picking" - I'm asking. I don't have a Model 10 but I have owned a number of M & Ps (precursor to the 10) and unless Smith changed the cylinder lengths on the 10s - and I don't see what the purpose would be in doing that if chambered in 38 special - it wouldn't work anyway. The only way would be to seat the bullet deeper which is going to increase pressure if loaded with normal 357 data - so in essence - you'd end up using a 357 casing to 38 special pressures unless you decided to "push your luck" that the load wouldn't make that of your revolver.

[Outpost75]

Back to converting a model 10 to 357 . . . . . the cylinder is chambered for 38 special as is the length of the cylinder - how would it even be feasible...I'm not "picking" - I'm asking... unless Smith changed the cylinder lengths on the 10s... it wouldn't work anyway...

Model 13, 19 and other .357 K cylinders are about 1.70" long vs. 1.60" approximately for a Model 10. It is possible to face off off the barrel extension where it protrudes through the frame to allow the longer cylinder to fit, and then to recut the forcing cone.

However, the typical Model 10 frame is still soft, No more than 20 Rc for a 10-5 or later, and even softer than that, about 80-90 Rb for a Model 10 earlier ones. While the cylinder will hold up, the gun will develop end play and shoot loose with more than a minimal use of .357s. Even Model 13 and 19 revolvers originally built as .357s at the factory, required armorer attention at annual requals, because even with the hardened yoke assembly and lengthened bearing pads, hardened ejector rod and center pin, the frame begins to stretch after about 1000 rounds of full-charge magnum loads. You can tighten the gun up again maybe twice before cylinder gap is enlarged to exceed factory customer service specs. By the third rebuild all the oversized parts available from the factory have been used up. In typical LE service if shot extensively with full-charge .357 loads a Magnum K-frame would be scrapped out for replacement before 6000 rounds.

Usually at the 3rd rebuild we put them aside to be reworked as bull barrelled PPC target revolvers which would then last forever if fed an exclusive diet of wadcutters.

[DougGuy]

He does have autos in 9mm, 40mm and 45 acp that he does practice with and is comfortable looking through the open sights with them so the transition to a revolver wouldn't be nearly as tough as the contender. He is also searching for a .357 but no luck so far.


The deer he'd likely shoot would be parading by his deck 15 feet away at dawn and dusk. He'd have to sort through them for a big one but would probably get one.



You more or less already have the solution, his 45 would do everything a +P 38 would do and then some, and if he can shoot a yearling doe or a spike, there is no finer eating and he won't have so much weight on the hoof to drag and clean. Shooting a deer is the easy part. The real work starts when it lays down.

The 357 is a lethal man stopper with the 125gr jhp, but I wouldn't shoot a deer with one, I would way sooner choose the 45 with a wide meplat cast boolit, and the same RF cast boolit in the 357 I don't think will equal the terminal performance of the 45 caliber RF boolit because the 357, even if it expanded, will not outdo the 45 which is already the size of the 357 expanded when it hits hide. But, that's just me. I'd pick the 45, load up some RF or WFN boolits and roll with it.

[reddog81]

I’d be much more leery of shooting .357 in a model 10 than .38 Special + P in a Colt Officer Model Match. Assuming that’s the the Colt you mean by Colt Match. Even the smaller Colt Police Positive Special Target will digest any normal .38 Special +P load in moderation.

The Colt Officers Model Match has a larger frame than the S&W model 10. It makes no sense to think you can shoot .357 in a Model 10 but be afraid of .38 Special +P in the Colt.

Just paint the bullets or head of the case red to signify they’re a hot load if your that worried about it.

[rancher1913]

your friend needs a friend to tell him its just not safe for him to go hunting anymore. if he cant handle the proper tools, he cant handle the improper ones either. I only hope when I get there I have a good enough friend to let me know.

[Texas by God]

If he can use a rifle legally, shooting a .223 with 55 gr soft point left handed will kill any deer that walks by at 15 yards dead as a door nail. Just a suggestion. Years ago I used a 30-30 with a 150 grain cast flat nose at 1700 FPS at 50 yards for an instant clean kill. I cheated with a Limbsaver pad because my bicep was recently put back together. I hope he gets to hunt!

[nelsonted1]

I’d be much more leery of shooting .357 in a model 10 than .38 Special + P in a Colt Officer Model Match. Assuming that’s the the Colt you mean by Colt Match. Even the smaller Colt Police Positive Special Target will digest any normal .38 Special +P load in moderation.

The Colt Officers Model Match has a larger frame than the S&W model 10. It makes no sense to think you can shoot .357 in a Model 10 but be afraid of .38 Special +P in the Colt.

Just paint the bullets or head of the case red to signify they’re a hot load if your that worried about it.

It is a Officer's Model Special 4th version. The problem is it has a rear sight -Coltmaster micro- that in order to install it needed a whole lot of steel removed to fit the sight so I am afraid it is weakened as compared to the original. I only shoot light loads in this one.

[nelsonted1]

The other idea that ran through my head was to get an ar15 pistol in 300 blackhawk. Problem with that is I don't especially want one after his season is over. We, in southern Minnesota, are allowed shotgun and pistol for deer. We are getting into "I want" territory and I'm not needing another 300 whisper/blackhawk.
I really, really want a Savage short action barrel bored in .410 that I can shoot like a rifle using 410 brass and 41 mag bullets. A legal 250 yard hammer legal for slug areas. Talk about an obscure, freakish dream that is it. I don't know how the rims would feed. Alternatively, boring an Enfield barreled action.

[Drm50]

Best thing might be for friend to give up hunting. I know it’s hard, I’m 70 and Doc told me I would never play the fiddle again. I’m not going to hunt out of stand or fish off a dock. I can still target shoot within reason. I’m selling all my guns, gear and tackle. It’s hard for me , that’s all I’ve done since a small kid. Never interested in anything else. Shot 22 target pistol today, I ain’t a contender no more, but it gives me some pleasure.

[Jtarm]

Answer: NO



Make that Hell NO.

Besides the safety concerns, if he doesn’t currently own a handgun capable of taking deer, he likely has no business shooting at them with one. Killing deer cleanly with an iron-sighted handgun requires skill.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Seriously, if your amigo has a .45 ACP and can shoot it well, and he's planning on just plugging a deer that passes by his back porch, that's all he needs.

[Groo]

Groo here
For those who think a M-10 CAN'T take a 357 due to how long it is,,,, the 38spec and 357 spec is almost the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The cylinder is the same size in a M-10 /M-13/M-64/M-65 AND M-28 357 Highway Patrolman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nelsonted1]

Here is what I want.
I want him to try firing my 20 gauge mossberg with soft lead round balls that I can load low enough that it is a ***** cat that will still shoot through any deer we have in Minnesota at 40 yards or less. I can put a pad on it if he wants. If he can't hold it up long enough with his bad left arm to get a shot don't beat himself up over it.
None of us are starving. Deer hunting is not for feeding ourselves. Never has been. Neither have any of us ever hunting for the big rack.
We've always hunted for the fun of hanging out with our buddies. Walking farms that we have walked every year for 40 years of hunting. Eating in the nieghborhood greasy spoon restaraunts at noon. Telling stories and reminding each other of previous hunts. Dad would insist we ate at the restaraunts because we had to eat but mostly he watched the fat 60 year old guys with purple faces from once-a-year exercising calm down and catch a break. Dad and another of our group were over 80 and still hunting. They would be set up next to their pickups on the end of drives. They couldn't walk much anymore and they knew their limitations but man did they have fun!
I want my friend to not shoot any kind of pistol at deer because he doesn't practice enough. He hasn't visualized what a deer looks like over the sights on a pistol. Pistol hunting deer is not something people should do without a lot of practicing.
If he can't take a shot at a deer because of his limitations who cares? What he gets is a few experiences- hopefully- that he can talk about to everyone he meets. He can get outside and do some walking in the edges of swamps, woods and fields at dawn and dusk and actually see things that he doesn't see from his pickup

[nelsonted1]

We had two guys in our group who hated each so bad they'd sit across from each other in the restaraunts as far apart from each other as they could get. One would sit with his shoulder against the table drinking coffee while the other would sit facing the other way despising each other so much they'd try their best not to even look at each other. The rest of us would look at the two of them acting like kindergartners and laugh out loud

[Outpost75]

Groo here
For those who think a M-10 CAN'T take a 357 due to how long it is,,,, the 38spec and 357 spec is almost the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The cylinder is the same size in a M-10 /M-13/M-64/M-65 AND M-28 357 Highway Patrolman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thou must wear thy spectacles when reading the verniers...

[bcp477]

Got to jump in here. The FRAMES are the same - including the heat treat. So, yes, it IS possible to re- make a model 10 into a .357 mag. That is- a later Model 10 - NEVER one made before 1957. HOWEVER, the cylinders are NOT THE SAME. A Model 10 retro- fitted with a .357 mag cylinder (the barrel would need heavy work to accomodate the longer cylinder) - is a viable prospect. But, re-boring a 38 spl Model 10 cylinder to fit magnum cartridges is ASKING for a blow-up. The steel specs on the cylinders are different, as is the heat treating. So - DON'T DO IT. If you must modify the gun, have it re-built properly into a Franken-mod 10/357. NOT ANY OTHER WAY !!!

[curioushooter]

In a word NO. The heat treatment of the cylinder is probably different. It is just a bad idea all around. And besides the difference in performance is pretty insubstantial with cast boolits or any other non-expanding bullet. I've done the tests on gel. With a quality expanding bullet like the Hornady XTP the 357 offers significantly greater effective range, but only slightly better expansion/penetration, which are factors more related to bullet weight and diameter than to velocity.

[Outpost75]

Got to jump in here. The FRAMES are the same - including the heat treat...


What is your source for that claim? S&W? Ha! Do you drive a VW diesel also?


I cannot speak to current production, but in the 1980s that certainly was not the case. This being based upon lab analysis in which structure and chemistry of failed revolvers was examined by the government. Also included cylinders being blown because they were not properly heat treated. I view the corporate honesty of S&W as being on a par with Volkswagen.

[9.3X62AL]

S&W is notorious for running too much cartridge in too little platform. It took them 45 years to FINALLY get the 357 Magnum package correct with the L-frame.

[curioushooter]

S&W is notorious for running too much cartridge in too little platform. It took them 45 years to FINALLY get the 357 Magnum package correct with the L-frame.

You do know that they started with the large (44 caliber size) N-frame 357, then managed to downsize it to the small-medium frame K-frame (38 caliber size), then then introduced a new L-frame because people were ruining their K-frames running bad loads through it. They also introduced a J-frame (small 32 caliber size) 357. I've owned and shot cast through all four: a model 28-2, 19-3, 686+-6, and 60-18. Guess which one is my favorite? The 19-3!

My theory is that "the issue" is almost entirely due to 125 grain and lighter weight jacketed bullets run at high velocities with excessive charges of slow burning powders. Just a bad combination of bullet slamming the forcing cone at high speed (causes crack) and loads of hot gas pouring through the gap behind it (causes erosion). This type of loading was popular in the 1970s into the 1980s which is when these problems were reported in significant numbers. The K-mags had been around for 15 years and knowledgeable reloaders had evaluated them and found no problems, but they weren't putting 18+ grains of 2400 behind a 125 or 110 grain JHP either.

When loaded with 140 grain and heavier bullets, which the 357 should be anyway, there are few reports of problems. And almost no reports of problems using post 1995 SAMMI spec loads or less. My favorite load is 158s, particularly the RCBS 358-158-SWCGC or the MP-359-HammerHP the with 14 grains of 2400 or the 358429 or MP-359 Hammer 170 with 13.5 for full power loads and 6 grains of Unique for basically a 38+P+ type load which does about whatever I want it to.

I've been running my K-frame on almost exclusively a diet of modern 357 loads(capped at 35KPSI or less), which I call 357 medium, for years now with almost no noticeable effect except for finish wear. I have an L frame too...TOO BIG. I hardly shoot it anymore and carry it less. J-Frame is too small and is pretty hard to hold onto. The K is just right.

Ruger is notorious for making bricks that are too large for a given cartridge IMO. The Security Six was a nifty piece...just a little bigger than the K. It's the only DA Ruger I'd consider. Then they scrapped it all and produced a 357 revolver (GP100) the size of a 44!

If you want to hot rod everything then get an over-sized platform by all means, but hot rodding is a fool's errand. I've done it. Real world performance is seldom impacted by the small improvements one can make within a caliber with a handgun. If you want a normal handgun (not a mini-rifle like Contender, which is a different story) performance improvement increase caliber! You'd be hard pressed to tell any difference between 38 special or 357 on gel using a solid cast bullet from a 4" revolver. Both will make a caliber sized hole all the way through.

[tja6435]

I’d send you some 166gr Flat nose, 200gr LFN and/or some 220gr FN boolits, all gas checked and lubed, sized to .358” to load for your buddy in .38spl. All are from LBT molds, the 220gr has 2 crimp grooves, one for .38 and one for .357 cases, but the nose was dimensioned for 1.776” OAL so you’d have to seat it to your OAL.

[Mr_Sheesh]

One option, borrow a 300 AAC barrel for the season then swap that back out and put some other caliber you do want onto it?

If it were me I'd just use a .45, plenty of oomph, and never try to hack an M10 like that as it's just not a good idea.

[nelsonted1]

The southern half of Minnesota is shotgun-pistol only so we can't hunt with rifles.

He claims he can't lift his left arm high enough to shoot a deer with a shotgun. I guarantee if he had a decent deer cross in front of him he could lift his left arm to maximum height and then lean back enough to fire his weapon. If he couldn't his world wouldn't end- he'd have a story to tell. My 20 gauge Mossberg 500 is light enough he could manage it. Especially if he only loaded three or even two shells. I would load all the loads he could practice with with light round ball loads that wouldn't brutalize him with recoil and would be accurate and deadly to 40-50 yards easy. We don't shoot past 40 yards. I've hunted with him for decades and I know he won't take long shots on deer.

He wants a .357 to hunt with his bad shoulder. Personally, I don't think he has any business hunting with a pistol since I believe pistol hunting requires months of practice and dry firing buts thats me and my thinking which has nothing to do with anyone else's hunting plans. Please don't get on me over the joys of pistol hunting because my thought s on the issue are my own. He does practice some with his 9mm, 40mm and 45 acp but its a few shots now and then but not enough to be meaningful.

I want him to get outside and do something. He goes into to his shop, gets the mail and drives around. I worked for and with him for decades and it breaks my heart to see him becoming old, mentally old. I'm afraid he could be giving up.

The only reason I think about a .357 is I have a colt match pistol that was deeply cut to fit a micro sight and won't have a heavy .38 load in my inventory because i worry about the strength of the colt. My friend would be the only one firing a .357 load in it.

I may give him my Contender in .357 max but, again, he won't practice enough to make the choice ethical. I'd be happy to hand him 200 or 300 rounds if he'd shoot them.

[Gregorious]

No model 10 was ever chambered by the S&W factory in .357, where did you get this info? Pure LGS BS.

The fixed sight NYSP .357s were not built on K-frames, they were L-frames.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/205711-10-6-357-magnum-question-nysp.html

The 10-6 .357 were replaced with the Model 28, then the Model 681.

I bought the gun for $150.00, in the mid 1980's from Ken's Kustom Kartridges in Hubbard, Ohio. It is one of my most accurate revolvers.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=227577

Just contributing the the forum knowledge base.

[downzero]

S&W is notorious for running too much cartridge in too little platform. It took them 45 years to FINALLY get the 357 Magnum package correct with the L-frame.

Uh, S&W invented the .357 Magnum. In an N frame. Like God intended.

[ddixie884]

No no no no....................................

[Der Gebirgsjager]

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/205711-10-6-357-magnum-question-nysp.html

The 10-6 .357 were replaced with the Model 28, then the Model 681.

I bought the gun for $150.00, in the mid 1980's from Ken's Kustom Kartridges in Hubbard, Ohio. It is one of my most accurate revolvers.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=227577

Just contributing the the forum knowledge base.

This is a really great post, Gregorious, and thanks for posting it. It doesn't answer all of the questions and statements that have been made it this thread, but the links do provide great information for any collectors or shooters interested in S&W 10-6 or model 13 revolvers. :D

[468]

Elsonted1, find your friend a 6” model 19. They’re available. Problem solved.