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Blackwater
12-25-2005, 02:24 AM
Can y'all tell me if any of the milsurps tend to have large flashes when loaded to "normal" high pressures of @ 30 kpsi for pistol or 40 kpsi+ for rifles? I know some ball powders have a rep for producing large flashes until you get the pressure up to where they'll burn well, but any info on this factor would be appreciated.

Buckshot
12-26-2005, 09:03 AM
...........Chinese produced P9 (similar to IMR3031) had no flash deterant. Bright in mid day sun from an M44 carbine!

..............Buckshot

Bass Ackward
12-26-2005, 09:48 AM
Can y'all tell me if any of the milsurps tend to have large flashes when loaded to "normal" high pressures of @ 30 kpsi for pistol or 40 kpsi+ for rifles? I know some ball powders have a rep for producing large flashes until you get the pressure up to where they'll burn well, but any info on this factor would be appreciated.


I can't even begin to run through all the senarios. So much of this depends on bore diameter, barrel length, and caliber. Even when running the pressure levels that you indicate.

What flash tells of is ignition problems as well as bore color. If you have muzzle flash, bore diameter and barrel length are fixed, so the only thing you can control is case capacity by using a solid filler if powder speed alows you to do so.

Maven
12-26-2005, 10:42 AM
All, A factor we've overlooked is ambient light, i.e. the lighting conditions when we're observing this. Think about this: The [strobe] flash on your camera is blinding in a dimly lit room, but not so in broad daylight. I experienced muzzle flash with my 4 5/8" bbl. Ruger Blackhawk (.357mag.) late in the afternoon when firing 17gr. WC 820 (old lot, with H 110 loading data) and a 125gr. jacketed bullet. The powder gases were obviously present at other times, but there was no fireball in bright light.

Ricochet
12-26-2005, 11:26 PM
Yeah, that Chinese stuff that was supposedly made to be Accurate 2230 with no flash supressor will dazzle you in broad daylight. I've forgotten what Jeff Bartlett called it, but I've got some in the basement. It's good shooting powder, though. I get some good daylight muzzle flashes out of maximum loads of WC860 in .300 Weatherby Magnum with 200 grain bullets. It's a slow powder for that application. And I'm shooting it in a snubbie Vanguard. (24")

Blackwater
12-28-2005, 01:42 AM
I should have worded my question better. I'm concerned about loads for my .45 ACP, particularly, and maybe others as well. Don't want any more flash than I just HAVE to put up with in any gun that may be used in low light. The .45's my carry gun of choice, usually, but the Moisen or Brit #4 may be used on armadillo after sunset as well. I HATE those creatures, possum on the half shell jokes notwithstanding! Also the occasional coyote, and if there are milsurp powders with lower general flash levels, with both cast or j-bullets, then I'd appreciate any notes about this factor. Being blind after the first shot isn't a good thing.

Also, what's the lowest flash powder any of you have used in the .45 ACP with full loads and cast bullets, milsurp or commercial, if you don't mind my more generalized question here.

How's WCC-820 in rifles with 25-30 kpsi loads as far as flash goes? Generally, I know flash goes down as pressure goes up. Higher pressures generally give more complete burns, and less flash, but flash can vary according to powder formulation. I'm assuming (???) that the milsurps would have pretty low to average flash characteristics, since I believe this is usually a spec they have to meet, isn't it? Use it at lower pressures, and I realize this can go out the window, too. Just wondering which powders tend to have most minimall flash potentials.

Bass Ackward
12-28-2005, 08:34 AM
Just wondering which powders tend to have most minimall flash potentials.

I still think that it is still dificult to say in basis of fact. Two guys can load the same powder and one like it and the other hate it. You can always step up in primer and improve an undesirable situation. But some guys refrain from that. So it is tough to say in an all inclusive way. The safest thing to do is to look at the caliber of interest and stay with what should be a medium to fast powder selection with the weight of bullet of interest and you should be OK. Nothing will flash if it burns.

A lot of surplus powders were first developed for a government contract and then sold to the public. If you know the equivalents, you can try a can ahead of time. If you get a black bore when firing, you will flash. If it is grey, then you are burning and will have the best chance of stopping any flash. Especially in an auto where all options aren't .... easily available to you.

The best powders to ignite and burn at fairly low pressure levels are shotgun powders. And most of them are flake. Next would be stick powders. And lastly ball powders. But if you adhere to the speed logic above, all should be able to meet your criteria. Especially if you don't have reloading biases towards steps that aid ignition.

Ricochet
12-28-2005, 03:55 PM
In the .45, I think the best bet is to use a fast burning powder that lets you use the smallest charge to get the ballistics you want. I like the surplus AA#2 equivalent stuff for duplicating factory hardball loads, and it's not a big flasher. (That would be me in a raincoat.)

kenjuudo
12-28-2005, 07:04 PM
Dennis, 4.7gr. of titegroup behind a 230 gr. cast boolit gives off a nice soft orange glow in the dark in .45 acp. No problem with target aquisition for follow up shots. Alot less flash than the Win. white box factory.

Blackwater
01-01-2006, 10:35 PM
Thanks, guys. Just considering fine tuning some new loads, mainly for the .45 ACP but for all the others as well. I've been doing the same-o same-o for so long now that maybe it's time to broaden my horizons, and I'd heard flash CAN sometimes be a problem with some of the milsurps. I also think I'm going to do some night time coyote hunting this summer, and flash in ANY night time shooting isn't a good thing. Appreciate replys.