Unprovoked bear attack

[waksupi]

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/08/black-bear-kills-unarmed-woman-bear-spray-fails-gun-works/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR1cTo9t6mOEOuTaNyGo74iqNBEYdYkHzh_9LrZkv royLgcD5Y0xYVH5_Nw#axzz6WtYZoMi7

Bear spray failed, and Canadian gun laws killed this woman.

[Maven]

Someone needs to edit the title to read Unprovoked [Black] Bear Attack

[waksupi]

Someone needs to edit the title to read Unprovoked [Black] Bear Attack

When you're right, you're right!

[bakerjw]

The article mentions the use of pepper spray and bear spray. I would hope that they had true bear spray and not a small can of pepper spray. Some animals are not affected by capzasin too much and I believe that it breaks down with time. I wonder if their can was old.

I've had this conversation many times on cycling forums regarding firearms as compared to bear spray. Having flown into Canada 4 years in a row to cycle south in the mountains through grizzly country, the only option that I've ever had was to carry bear spray. Those 4 cans all made it home with me too. If you look at videos of bear charges, the time to react is so fast that most people will not be able to get off an accurate shot or 2 depending on the closing rate. Putting a cloud of bear spray between you and a bear is an impressive deterrent that I will take over a handgun any day of the week. It is not necessary to spray direct into the face of an aggressive bear, just put the cloud toward the bear.

I have demonstrated shooting bear spray to people in the past. Oftentimes people never experience shooting it until they need it. The last time, we were in the back yard on a still day and I shot it out away from the house. My wife, God love her, was on the back porch observing. About a minute later she started hacking and sputtering as she made her way into the house. There was a very subtle air current that brought some of the spray back behind us and she got a very light exposure. As I headed in to check on her, it got me too. If that small of a exposure caused us issues, I cannot imagine what a direct blast would do to a bear with their highly sensitive olfactory sense.

After my first trip to Canada, I had returned and a few days later my wife told me of a mountain biker being killed by a grizzly near Kallispell. She said, "You weren't near there were you?" I told her, "Dear, I flew out of Kalispell." She came in and hugged me letting me know that she was glad that I was home. Last year, we rode within 20 miles of the attack.
https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/mar/08/mauled-mountain-biker-was-going-fast-grizzly-bear-attack/
My friend, Dan, who live in the area knew the guy who was killed. He had a GoPro running and the guys at the bike shop up there saw the video. He was going fast, came over a rise and T-Boned the grizzly who attacked and then ran off.

[waksupi]

The article mentions the use of pepper spray and bear spray. I would hope that they had true bear spray and not a small can of pepper spray. Some animals are not affected by capzasin too much and I believe that it breaks down with time. I wonder if their can was old.

I've had this conversation many times on cycling forums regarding firearms as compared to bear spray. Having flown into Canada 4 years in a row to cycle south in the mountains through grizzly country, the only option that I've ever had was to carry bear spray. Those 4 cans all made it home with me too. If you look at videos of bear charges, the time to react is so fast that most people will not be able to get off an accurate shot or 2 depending on the closing rate. Putting a cloud of bear spray between you and a bear is an impressive deterrent that I will take over a handgun any day of the week. It is not necessary to spray direct into the face of an aggressive bear, just put the cloud toward the bear.

I have demonstrated shooting bear spray to people in the past. Oftentimes people never experience shooting it until they need it. The last time, we were in the back yard on a still day and I shot it out away from the house. My wife, God love her, was on the back porch observing. About a minute later she started hacking and sputtering as she made her way into the house. There was a very subtle air current that brought some of the spray back behind us and she got a very light exposure. As I headed in to check on her, it got me too. If that small of a exposure caused us issues, I cannot imagine what a direct blast would do to a bear with their highly sensitive olfactory sense.

After my first trip to Canada, I had returned and a few days later my wife told me of a mountain biker being killed by a grizzly near Kallispell. She said, "You weren't near there were you?" I told her, "Dear, I flew out of Kalispell." She came in and hugged me letting me know that she was glad that I was home. Last year, we rode within 20 miles of the attack.
https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/mar/08/mauled-mountain-biker-was-going-fast-grizzly-bear-attack/
My friend, Dan, who live in the area knew the guy who was killed. He had a GoPro running and the guys at the bike shop up there saw the video. He was going fast, came over a rise and T-Boned the grizzly who attacked and then ran off.

I live just south of Kalispell. I know of several bear spray failures, mostly due to high winds. We have 30-50 mph winds forecast for today. Not a good bet. Some poor sod in North Dakota would be wondering why his eyes were burning?

A few years ago a woman was killed by a black bear about ten miles NW of me. She had been feeding it, so it was a self inflicted wound.
The mountain biker that was killed was just plain screwed. This was about 30 miles from here. Basically ran into the bear on the trail with his bike, that's all she wrote.

[bakerjw]

I live just south of Kalispell. I know of several bear spray failures, mostly due to high winds. We have 30-50 mph winds forecast for today. Not a good bet. Some poor sod in North Dakota would be wondering why his eyes were burning?

A few years ago a woman was killed by a black bear about ten miles NW of me. She had been feeding it, so it was a self inflicted wound.
The mountain biker that was killed was just plain screwed. This was about 30 miles from here. Basically ran into the bear on the trail with his bike, that's all she wrote.

I am sitting here at work wearing one of my Wheatons Bicycles T-Shirts. I LOVE your area of Montana, especially up the flathead valley west of Glacier.

[Mal Paso]

My daughter got some herself test firing bear mace. She was not incapacitated and sprays outside in the wind are unreliable. I wear a 44 when I'm out and about in the backcountry.

Animals are not dumb. I know I can inflict damage if attacked. Even if they don't recognize the gun they can see the attitude. Most of the time, that's enough. The gun is loaded in case it isn't.

I've seen animals leave when guns are brought out, spray cans, not so much.

[cwlongshot]

Personally I feel its everyones responsibility to have situational awareness. Bears are a top
Predator. BLK bears have a WHOLE LOT more mauling then the other big three combined. Simply cause there is more contact. Between and a "man" and a blk bear.

Sure if they where armed AND KNEW HOW TO PROPERLY USE a firearm the outcome coulda been different. But back to my first comment, she was seemingly not even aware enough to realize the dangers.

May she RIP, and god bless her children and husband.

CW

[brass410]

black bears are renowned for their unpredictability, thats what makes them the most dangerous, that and foolish human behavior in their presence. DO NOT fool with the black bears, they dont mind to stop what they're doing right now, and maul or kill, just because they can. Bear spray good, but some like spicey food, but not much love for 12 gauge with a blend of slugs and buck shot, quite often the noise is enough deterrent.

[popper]

Forest Service used to disallow guns in the parks, after a few workers lost to bear, changed the tune. Years ago there was a 'quick draw' test between man and bear, man lost. Guess Gov. is more worried about poaching than citizen protection.

[abunaitoo]

I would think, during an attack, the brae would get more agitated buy being sprayed.
We don't have bears here, so have not idea if bear spray works or not.
But we do have sharks.
Shark repellent during a frenzy does not work.
They will sometimes eat the repellent bag.

[Digger]

Just waiting for some body and a bear to mix it up here in our area ....lake Tahoe , gone crazy this year with tourist , refugees.
Of all things , the bears are walking into the stores here ... the link shows both incidents lately , "OH wait , he doesn't have a mask !" .. :shock:
link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z30Xg5-9oY4

[gpidaho]

Idaho has a LOT of Black bears but only a very few Grizzly over on the eastern border or deep in the Frank Church Wilderness. A Black is most dangerous when startled or has young about. In general a Black has a healthy respect for the danger of humans and will most likely avoid contact if possible. That said I wouldn't want to trip over a napping Black in a huckleberry patch. Gp

[Ozark mike]

Boundary county has quite a few grizz up near the boarder. They would raid the bosses bee hives quite often

[OutHuntn84]

I don't understand how anyone could quick draw a can of bear spray any better than I can draw a pistol or shoulder a long gun.
But I will say I've never been accused of being the smartest man in the room, just the most handsome.
I think we all agree it sure as hell isnt the Govs place to tell me how to protect myself.

[Ozark mike]

I can get a 45 out and hit a 12 inch target at 10 yds in less than a second if the thong isnt on the hammer. My bfr is a little slower due to the weight and length

[shaune509]

A good read is 'Night of the grizzlies' by Jack Olsen. About the Griz attacks in Glacier NP in the 60's. There was also a PBS documentry on it.
Shaune509

[waksupi]

I can get a 45 out and hit a 12 inch target at 10 yds in less than a second if the thong isnt on the hammer. My bfr is a little slower due to the weight and length

Problem is, a bear's brain is the size of a tennis ball, and it's moving fast, often at less than ten yards when seen in the bush. Adrenaline kinda kicks in, too. Throw a tennis ball at a wall as hard as you can, and put a bullet in it before it gets back to you. Let us know how you do at that.

[bakerjw]

One of my favorite videos. Jasper Alberta.
https://youtu.be/SLMa5-n2OVc

You need your head on a swivel when in their territory. Oftentimes cycling, I'd be on double track roads with clear view around but sometimes, I'd get on tight single track where your on edge all the time. When cycling, my bear spray is in a holster right by the right brakes and shift lever. I've pulled it out very quickly when needed. Especially 2 years ago on cabin pass when we spooked a mountain lion about 25 feet away from us.

[contender1]

We humans need to understand a few basic things.

We are NOT always invincible against animals.
Animals can & will attack for various reasons,, sometimes we know the reason, & sometimes not.
We humans have tried to develop methods of protection against potentially aggressive animals.
And lastly, NOTHING is guaranteed or perfect.
Be prepared.

[farmbif]

from what I understand theres a huge difference between black and brown bears. black bear family spotted 1/4 mile from my house. all garbage now goes directly to dump when taken out of house, they just started logging across the road and I'll be wearing at least a 357 on my belt

[dtknowles]

I can get a 45 out and hit a 12 inch target at 10 yds in less than a second if the thong isnt on the hammer. My bfr is a little slower due to the weight and length

I have read a charging bear can cross a 35 ft. gap in a second.

[10x]

I have lived in Black bear habitat for over 60 years.
Black bears for the most part avoid contact with humans.
The Black bears that do attack humans are rare.
See a bear once and he is running away, that is a good bear.
See a bear once, the bear knows you are there, see the bear a second time and the bear is closer, that is not a good bear. That bear is interested in you and may be trouble. leave the area or if you can't prepare your best bear defense.
See a bear that knows about you a third time and the bear is closer every time you see the bear, you are being stalked, the bear is determining where you are on the food chain.
Black bears here have no idea of what a human on foot is. They only see heavy equipment working, and automobiles, a human on foot is rare and unusual.
Predators, including bears consider anything that runs as food. So don't run, riding a bike can be considered running. Any thing that runs is food to a predator.
Bears will stand their ground and even attack to defend cubs, food, and if they are startled and you are inside their comfort zone. Bears will attack you if they believe they will be successful - after all you are a considerable amount of walking food
Pepper spray experiments are done, not on attacking bears, but on bears that are provoked and not engaging in a dedicated predator attack where they are hoping for a meal.
What every you use, practice deploying it very quickly and know how to have it deployed and working in under 2 to 3 seconds. If your gun or pepper spray is in your hand your chances of survival increase. In a holster or packed away, the risk of not surviving increases.
If you can not get your means of bear defense deployed in under 3 seconds, you had better practice more A bear can cover over 35 yards in three seconds or less.
For those who champion pepper spray, they can carry it.
Me, I will carry a defender in 12 gauge loaded with 00 Buckshot, and 5 in the magazine. I will use pepper on the well done bear steaks.
Bears are unpredictable, if the bear is aware of you and does not leave, you should leave the area. it is that simple.

[Ozark mike]

https://youtu.be/XznLHZjlgLU

[james23]

I have met the deceased woman in the past and know the family. We do have bad gun laws and they are getting worse but in this case the article linked is not quite accurate. Having first hand knowledge of what happened convinced me that the husband did what he thought was right. Access to a readily usable firearm was not a problem in this case. Part of the law quoted in the article actually referred to 'remote wilderness area". The fishing camp is in very remote area accessible by float plane.

(3) Paragraphs (1)(b) and (c) do not apply to an individual who stores a non-restricted firearm in a location that is in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting.
As a farmer I know of few neighbors that don't have a readily accessible gun fairly close at hand to protect the farm. In my parts bears are not a concern but rabid skunks and coons as well as coyotes coming in the yard trying to lure the dogs out to gang up on them are common and most people keep an eye out.

I would ask for your prayers for the grieving family. Its been a tough time.

[monadnock#5]

Bear of all stripes are omnivorus. They'll eat anything, even if it gets retched up 15 min later. If you and a bear catch sight of each other, and the bear walks off, you'd better be checking your 6 o'clock. Often. If you see a sick, skinny bear (ribs showing), consider yourself in deep kimche.

[David2011]

I can get a 45 out and hit a 12 inch target at 10 yds in less than a second if the thong isnt on the hammer. My bfr is a little slower due to the weight and length

That's pretty impressive. My best times, using the gun in my avatar picture, are 1.1-1.2 seconds. That's using a CR Speed race holster and waiting on full alert for a timer buzzer to go off. That does include getting the gun in front of my eyes to hit a target but for a charging bear I might not bother with aiming, just start shooting once the gun is close to the right position. Not blowing hot air; I was charged by a wounded feral sow at close range one time and that's exactly what I did. No point in aiming since the rifle (AR-15) was scoped and at the close distance of the incident she would have been on me before I ever found her in the scope.

[dverna]

Our bears must be different. There are very few unprovoked black bear attacks in Northern Michigan. I am still wary of them but that is just common sense. I do not treat them like cute little Boo Boo bears, but will not shoot them on sight either.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Family member was hiking unarmed in this state (WA) & ended up run up a cliff by a boar black bear; They had no idea why. They managed to find two rocks and hammered them together to sound like a .22 and the bear got concerned about being "shot at" and left. Best to have a gun and need it, than need it and not have it.

[monadnock#5]

Fred Trost, Michigan Outdoors back in the 80's or 90's. He had a guest on who had a video of himself pursued by a black bear, somewhere in Canada. Classic predatory behavior. Seen at a distance and lost track of, and then up close in stealth mode. When confronted, the bear looked up, down and side to side but never directly at him, only out of the corner of its eyes. It just kept coming and was obviously waiting for the intended victim to catch a heel and fall over backwards. The only thing that saved him was the bear wouldn't follow him into the water. Good thing he knew how to swim.

[10x]

consider yourself in deep kimche.

It has been almost 50 years since I heard the phrase "consider yourself in deep kimche" My friend Gord (A geologist) used it all of the time. We had a Korean student in the dorm who we called K.C. His real name was Kok Chui. He preffered K.C.
Kimchee - basically sour kraut with hot peppers. Love the stuff

As for bears, Black bears are predators of opportunity. If they believe they can kill you, they will do so, and that is every one of them. To them food is food and if they identify you as food, or a threat, you are in trouble
I have lived with black bears for over 60 years, THere is fresh bear scat on my lawn as it has been a poor year for berries in the woods - and I live in a town of 6500 people I do not fear bears, but I do not trust them to be benign and friendly

[Ozark mike]

Kimchi is cabbage they bury in the ground and left to rot a little. All the taxi drivers in korea reak of it i cant stand the thought let alone the smell of that stuff

[waksupi]

Within the last couple days, another guy clearing trail up in Alaska was killed by a black bear.

[monadnock#5]

As for bears, Black bears are predators of opportunity. If they believe they can kill you, they will do so, and that is every one of them. To them food is food and if they identify you as food, or a threat, you are in trouble
I have lived with black bears for over 60 years, THere is fresh bear scat on my lawn as it has been a poor year for berries in the woods - and I live in a town of 6500 people I do not fear bears, but I do not trust them to be benign and friendly

Back in the day when I would read about anything I could get my hands on, I found a magazine for farmers in my grandads collection. It contained a graphic warning on hog farming. It said "Never, Ever...go into a hog pen alone!!". If, for whatever reason, stroke, drunken stupor, you name it, a person keeled over and became incapacitated, they would instantly go to the bottom of the food chain.

I don't know about where you live, but around here, there's only 1 "wild" animal with the insatiable apatite of a farm raised hog.

[monadnock#5]

It has been almost 50 years since I heard the phrase "consider yourself in deep kimche" My friend Gord (A geologist) used it all of the time. We had a Korean student in the dorm who we called K.C. His real name was Kok Chui. He preffered K.C.
Kimchee - basically sour kraut with hot peppers. Love the stuff

The last few years I've been trying to eat a better diet. According to the experts, the (healthy) human being has more single cell critters living in their gut, than human cells in their whole body. I can't say that I really enjoy the flavor of kimche, but I love what it does for me.

[10x]

Back in the day when I would read about anything I could get my hands on, I found a magazine for farmers in my grandads collection. It contained a graphic warning on hog farming. It said "Never, Ever...go into a hog pen alone!!". If, for whatever reason, stroke, drunken stupor, you name it, a person keeled over and became incapacitated, they would instantly go to the bottom of the food chain.

I don't know about where you live, but around here, there's only 1 "wild" animal with the insatiable apatite of a farm raised hog.

I spent the first 18 years of my life on a farm with hogs. - Hogs will eat every thing they can, including the person that feeds them

[Ozark mike]

I spent the first 18 years of my life on a farm with hogs. - Hogs will eat every thing they can, including the person that feeds them

Yep some of those ornery Missourians go missing when they mess with the wrong farmer. Not a trace left

[abunaitoo]

When I was giving a Firearms class, I had a guy from Alaska.
Outside state permits don't count here.
We got to talking and he said something that always stuck with me.
"What do you call an unarmed hikers in Alaska..................bait"

[fiberoptik]

Snacks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Longshank]

The only people who think situational awareness will keep you safe from a bear are the people who have never run into a bear in the woods.

They materialize out of the gloom. One second no one is there, and the next second there they are, twenty feet away and closing fast. They seem to charge you in unearthly silence. They can't see worth a damn, but it seems like they're staring right into your soul, and know every thought you have.

They're sudden death on four legs, and hell has no fiend that is their equal.

[10x]

When I was giving a Firearms class, I had a guy from Alaska.
Outside state permits don't count here.
We got to talking and he said something that always stuck with me.
"What do you call an unarmed hikers in Alaska..................bait"

In 1997 or so a bear came into the Liard River hot springs resort and killed a number of tourist folk . One of the board members of the local tourist association stated very clearly that when you were traveling on the Alaska Highway and you step out of your vehicle you step into the food chain. If you are not carrying a rifle, you are stepping in at the bottom.
An American tourist who was travelling with a rifle in his camper killed the bear who was on a rampage

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-aug-17-mn-23311-story.html

[wildwilly501]

The only people who think situational awareness will keep you safe from a bear are the people who have never run into a bear in the woods.

They materialize out of the gloom. One second no one is there, and the next second there they are, twenty feet away and closing fast. They seem to charge you in unearthly silence. They can't see worth a damn, but it seems like they're staring right into your soul, and know every thought you have.

They're sudden death on four legs, and hell has no fiend that is their equal.

This right here.I live in the woods in Pa you can be setting outside and a bear will be there 30 feet away no sound nothing.It seems people think this woman did something wrong and It could never happen to them Think again.This women may well have been doing everything right and even having a gun in or hand might not have saved here.

[dverna]

I have gotten a bit complacent living in "bear country" for eight years and only seeing the south end of north bound bear the few times I have stumbled across one. Our bears must be Democratic snowflakes.

[contender1]

"Kimchee - basically sour kraut with hot peppers. Love the stuff " You forgot the fish oil.

I enjoy good kinchee,, but as noted,, it does have an aroma that many find offensive.

Maybe it could be studied as a bear repellent???? :D :D

Seriously,, all animals have different personalities, & attitudes. And it can change from day to day. I work with nuisance wildlife,, and I NEVER,, I mean NEVER get complacent when dealing with one. Where I live,, it used to be a rare occurrence for anyone to see a bear,,or even know someone who has seen one. Yet,, as as "progress" has moved in,, land has been sold, subdivided, and the local population of people has grown a LOT. With that progress,,,, a few things have happened. Habitat has shrunk, and people who USED to hunt these places are no longer allowed to hunt. Combine that with the restrictions on hunting,, and the ability of animals to adapt to their surroundings,, the population of bears has increase greatly. We are seeing black bears having 3, 4 & even 5 cubs annually. And it has become a common occurrence for people to see bears. SLOWLY,,, the wildlife commission is relaxing a FEW of the hunting regs to assist in controls,, but it's not enough.
And despite the fact that annually we have serious encounters involving people & bears,, many people fight tooth & nail to protect the overpopulation of them. They WANT more bears.
In Asheville NC there is a group called; "Save Asheville Bears" that has some serious money behind them. They have TV commercials,, & offer rewards to people who turn in ANYBODY who is suspected of harming or killing a bear. Last season, a guy killed a bear legally, and was "turned in" and a reward given for the whistle blower. Yet,, the bear was a legally killed bear, and the Wildlife Commission found no wrong doing. Yet,, they still promote people turning in bear hunters and poachers.
I have seen bears around my home,, and I also have pics of them walking around my house. I no longer walk outside at night w/o using cautions,, the same as if I lived in a place where thugs might decide to hang around.
Bears do not watch Disney to learn how to act.

[Digger]

"Kimchee - basically sour kraut with hot peppers. Love the stuff " You forgot the fish oil.

I enjoy good kinchee,, but as noted,, it does have an aroma that many find offensive.

Maybe it could be studied as a bear repellent???? :D :D

Seriously,, all animals have different personalities, & attitudes. And it can change from day to day. I work with nuisance wildlife,, and I NEVER,, I mean NEVER get complacent when dealing with one. Where I live,, it used to be a rare occurrence for anyone to see a bear,,or even know someone who has seen one. Yet,, as as "progress" has moved in,, land has been sold, subdivided, and the local population of people has grown a LOT. With that progress,,,, a few things have happened. Habitat has shrunk, and people who USED to hunt these places are no longer allowed to hunt. Combine that with the restrictions on hunting,, and the ability of animals to adapt to their surroundings,, the population of bears has increase greatly. We are seeing black bears having 3, 4 & even 5 cubs annually. And it has become a common occurrence for people to see bears. SLOWLY,,, the wildlife commission is relaxing a FEW of the hunting regs to assist in controls,, but it's not enough.
And despite the fact that annually we have serious encounters involving people & bears,, many people fight tooth & nail to protect the overpopulation of them. They WANT more bears.
In Asheville NC there is a group called; "Save Asheville Bears" that has some serious money behind them. They have TV commercials,, & offer rewards to people who turn in ANYBODY who is suspected of harming or killing a bear. Last season, a guy killed a bear legally, and was "turned in" and a reward given for the whistle blower. Yet,, the bear was a legally killed bear, and the Wildlife Commission found no wrong doing. Yet,, they still promote people turning in bear hunters and poachers.
I have seen bears around my home,, and I also have pics of them walking around my house. I no longer walk outside at night w/o using cautions,, the same as if I lived in a place where thugs might decide to hang around.
Bears do not watch Disney to learn how to act.

Sounds just like the Lake Tahoe area here , people and bears ...more of both in one area.
Along with the "Bear league" on west shore.

[monadnock#5]

Sounds just like the Lake Tahoe area here , people and bears ...more of both in one area.
Along with the "Bear league" on west shore.

Yup, that's SW NH in a nutshell.

[Idaho45guy]

Idaho has a LOT of Black bears but only a very few Grizzly over on the eastern border or deep in the Frank Church Wilderness. A Black is most dangerous when startled or has young about. In general a Black has a healthy respect for the danger of humans and will most likely avoid contact if possible. That said I wouldn't want to trip over a napping Black in a huckleberry patch. Gp

I was up hiking near Marble Mountain last Tuesday and found a huckleberry patch with the biggest pile of bear scat I've ever seen.

This was not made by any black bear. Either Bigfoot or a Grizzly...

267369

[Idaho45guy]

This was enlightening...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4tdGmzFA5I

[monadnock#5]

Very interesting. I have bear spray for walking my dog. I was told by my local LEO that I absolutely was not justified in shooting an unrestrained dog attacking my leashed dog, but pepper spray is OK. I assumed that bear spray was much more powerful than pepper spray and was concerned about using it on a human. Now I know. Thanks.

[10x]

"Kimchee - basically sour kraut with hot peppers. Love the stuff " You forgot the fish oil.

I enjoy good kinchee,, but as noted,, it does have an aroma that many find offensive.

Maybe it could be studied as a bear repellent???? :D :D

Seriously,, all animals have different personalities, & attitudes. And it can change from day to day. I work with nuisance wildlife,, and I NEVER,, I mean NEVER get complacent when dealing with one. Where I live,, it used to be a rare occurrence for anyone to see a bear,,or even know someone who has seen one. Yet,, as as "progress" has moved in,, land has been sold, subdivided, and the local population of people has grown a LOT. With that progress,,,, a few things have happened. Habitat has shrunk, and people who USED to hunt these places are no longer allowed to hunt. Combine that with the restrictions on hunting,, and the ability of animals to adapt to their surroundings,, the population of bears has increase greatly. We are seeing black bears having 3, 4 & even 5 cubs annually. And it has become a common occurrence for people to see bears. SLOWLY,,, the wildlife commission is relaxing a FEW of the hunting regs to assist in controls,, but it's not enough.
And despite the fact that annually we have serious encounters involving people & bears,, many people fight tooth & nail to protect the overpopulation of them. They WANT more bears.
In Asheville NC there is a group called; "Save Asheville Bears" that has some serious money behind them. They have TV commercials,, & offer rewards to people who turn in ANYBODY who is suspected of harming or killing a bear. Last season, a guy killed a bear legally, and was "turned in" and a reward given for the whistle blower. Yet,, the bear was a legally killed bear, and the Wildlife Commission found no wrong doing. Yet,, they still promote people turning in bear hunters and poachers.
I have seen bears around my home,, and I also have pics of them walking around my house. I no longer walk outside at night w/o using cautions,, the same as if I lived in a place where thugs might decide to hang around.
Bears do not watch Disney to learn how to act.

My home is less than 1/4 mile from a wild life sanctuary. Every year bears frequent my yard in the spring and fall.
I find bear scat on my lawn. And I have found bear scat on the ground right by the steps to my back door.
I like the joggers who want to know the best way to avoid a bear attack. They discuss pepper spray. My advice is "Do not run, bears consider anything that is running as food..." That keeps the joggers quiet.

[Phineas Bluster]

Very interesting. I have bear spray for walking my dog. I was told by my local LEO that I absolutely was not justified in shooting an unrestrained dog attacking my leashed dog, but pepper spray is OK. I assumed that bear spray was much more powerful than pepper spray and was concerned about using it on a human. Now I know. Thanks.

monadnock#5

The next time you encounter Officer DoughnutBreath, you may want to tell him to remove his cranial extremity from his anal orifice and read the New Hampshire State Statutes.

New Hampshire Statutes

TITLE XLV: ANIMALS

CHAPTER 466: DOGS AND CATS

Remedies and Penalties for Injuries Done by Dogs

Section: 466:28 Killing Dogs Legalized.

466:28 Killing Dogs Legalized. – Any person may kill a dog that suddenly assaults the person while such person is peaceably walking or riding without the enclosure of its owner or keeper; and any person may kill a dog that is found out of the enclosure or immediate care of its owner or keeper worrying, wounding, or killing sheep, lambs, fowl, or other domestic animals.

Source. 1891, 60:15. PL 150:32. RL 180:32. RSA 466:28. 1991, 213:4. 1995, 298:17, eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

PB

[waksupi]

Another griz attack down in the Gallatin yesterday. Quite frankly, if the buffalo don't step up their game, they are going to be losers in the annual competition.

[monadnock#5]

monadnock#5

The next time you encounter Officer DoughnutBreath, you may want to tell him to remove his cranial extremity from his anal orifice and read the New Hampshire State Statutes.

New Hampshire Statutes

TITLE XLV: ANIMALS

CHAPTER 466: DOGS AND CATS

Remedies and Penalties for Injuries Done by Dogs

Section: 466:28 Killing Dogs Legalized.

466:28 Killing Dogs Legalized. – Any person may kill a dog that suddenly assaults the person while such person is peaceably walking or riding without the enclosure of its owner or keeper; and any person may kill a dog that is found out of the enclosure or immediate care of its owner or keeper worrying, wounding, or killing sheep, lambs, fowl, or other domestic animals.

Source. 1891, 60:15. PL 150:32. RL 180:32. RSA 466:28. 1991, 213:4. 1995, 298:17, eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

PB

Thank you, I do appreciate your input. Now that I have the bear spray it will be my first option though.

[Ozark mike]

Bear spray? Yeah i think i got some of that i just took a look and it looks like they measure .458 and weighs about 500 grns travels oh about 1750 fps and leaves holes in every thing i deploy it on. Bears dont seem to like it much heck it even works on rabid log trucks

[rbuck351]

I was a Correctional Officer in Ak for 20 years. During my academy we learned about bear spray/pepper spray. They both contain oleoresin capsicum (O.C.) as the active ingredient. The % of this is not what counts. The spray is rated by Scovill heat units. A jalapeno pepper runs about 7500 heat units, a habanero is about 100,000 heat units. Bear/pepper spray starts at about 300,000 and goes up to 3,000,000 heat units. In the academy we were required to be sprayed in the face from about 1 foot range so we could experience what one could do after being sprayed with the 3,000,000 heat unit spray. Then we waited about 20 to 30 seconds and were told to go by our self to the wash room to clean up. (about 50yds) Reactions were different from one recruit to the next with one fellow having no response at all and thought he had been sprayed with practice can. ( no O.C.) I know what I can do after being sprayed and I do not trust it to stop a ticked off bear. Also it comes in fog form or stream form depending what you want.
I have had a lot of practice with drawing and putting a couple or three rounds on target with a handgun and believe I can do that quite a bit faster than most folks could draw and shoot, in the proper direction, a can of bear spray.
A gun/holster combo is designed to be drawn and pointed in very rapidly. A can of spray is difficult to draw, defeat the safety, get a proper grip on and point in and fire even somewhat accurate compared to a handgun.
You can keep the bear spray, I'll keep my hand gun.
Without wearing some form of defense, you are not going to fare well. Bears are very fast and even if her husband had been armed there may not have been time.

[Ozark mike]

I was a Correctional Officer in Ak for 20 years. During my academy we learned about bear spray/pepper spray. They both contain oleoresin capsicum (O.C.) as the active ingredient. The % of this is not what counts. The spray is rated by Scovill heat units. A jalapeno pepper runs about 7500 heat units, a habanero is about 100,000 heat units. Bear/pepper spray starts at about 300,000 and goes up to 3,000,000 heat units. In the academy we were required to be sprayed in the face from about 1 foot range so we could experience what one could do after being sprayed with the 3,000,000 heat unit spray. Then we waited about 20 to 30 seconds and were told to go by our self to the wash room to clean up. (about 50yds) Reactions were different from one recruit to the next with one fellow having no response at all and thought he had been sprayed with practice can. ( no O.C.) I know what I can do after being sprayed and I do not trust it to stop a ticked off bear. Also it comes in fog form or stream form depending what you want.
I have had a lot of practice with drawing and putting a couple or three rounds on target with a handgun and believe I can do that quite a bit faster than most folks could draw and shoot, in the proper direction, a can of bear spray.
A gun/holster combo is designed to be drawn and pointed in very rapidly. A can of spray is difficult to draw, defeat the safety, get a proper grip on and point in and fire even somewhat accurate compared to a handgun.
You can keep the bear spray, I'll keep my hand gun.
Without wearing some form of defense, you are not going to fare well. Bears are very fast and even if her husband had been armed there may not have been time.

They gas ya in boot camp i remember it to this day tho it aint as bad as some say and if i remember right its an aerosol form of pepper spray. A couple years ago someone had one of the little bottles for someone to stick in a purse or whatnot and it just happened that i was eating a taco. So me being me decided it would make good hot sauce and it really wasnt that hot compared to some sauces. Maybe it was just a cheap brand i dont know but they thought i had lost my mind

[10x]

I was a Correctional Officer in Ak for 20 years. During my academy we learned about bear spray/pepper spray. They both contain oleoresin capsicum (O.C.) as the active ingredient. The % of this is not what counts. The spray is rated by Scovill heat units. A jalapeno pepper runs about 7500 heat units, a habanero is about 100,000 heat units. Bear/pepper spray starts at about 300,000 and goes up to 3,000,000 heat units. In the academy we were required to be sprayed in the face from about 1 foot range so we could experience what one could do after being sprayed with the 3,000,000 heat unit spray. Then we waited about 20 to 30 seconds and were told to go by our self to the wash room to clean up. (about 50yds) Reactions were different from one recruit to the next with one fellow having no response at all and thought he had been sprayed with practice can. ( no O.C.) I know what I can do after being sprayed and I do not trust it to stop a ticked off bear. Also it comes in fog form or stream form depending what you want.
I have had a lot of practice with drawing and putting a couple or three rounds on target with a handgun and believe I can do that quite a bit faster than most folks could draw and shoot, in the proper direction, a can of bear spray.
A gun/holster combo is designed to be drawn and pointed in very rapidly. A can of spray is difficult to draw, defeat the safety, get a proper grip on and point in and fire even somewhat accurate compared to a handgun.
You can keep the bear spray, I'll keep my hand gun.
Without wearing some form of defense, you are not going to fare well. Bears are very fast and even if her husband had been armed there may not have been time.

Nailed it!!

[contender1]

"They gas ya in boot camp i remember it to this day tho it aint as bad as some say and if i remember right its an aerosol form of pepper spray. "

I know when I was in the Army, (1976-1979) the gas chambers used a 100% CS powder, burned, to produce the gas. I saw different reactions by different people. I also got put in charge of my unit's chemical stuff after boot. We kept a big metal container of pure CS in a connex by itself away from other things. I used to have to go get the powder for use in the chambers. It got to where I could do so w/o a mask.
Some folks have a worse reaction than others. I'll assume bears can be the same way.

The proper way to carry bear spray is the same as you'd carry a handgun. Set up for FAST deployment. A hiker can strap a can of spray to the front of their backpack, (normally recommended) to where it's immediately available with either hand.

Personally, I prefer having as many options as possible.

But I'm also practical. A bear is an animal. The law allows for the killing of an animal that is attacking me, or someone close to me. I want something that can kill the animal, so that I know I have effectively stopped the threat. As such,, I prefer to carry a handgun or other firearms if I feel I may encounter an aggressive animal,,,, two legged or 4 legged.

[Digger]

How about that ....
Mentioned earlier about the bears in Tahoe and the "Bear League" , now there is an article couple days later .
In the past this lady and others have raised a fit about how bears are treated by the state wardens ..now she is dealing straight on with the public herself ..
Link:
https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/article/tahoe-bear-sightings-what-to-do-15555264.php

This year with all the refugees from the city's and more bears as time goes on ...

[Ozark mike]

https://youtu.be/dnwXBLvNmzM

[Lloyd Smale]

i live in a high consentration black bear area. Theres bear in my yard every year. This year the forest service had to trap two because they were wondering into a full campground to go through the trash. That said i kind of chuckle at the people that post black bear attacks. Probably a 100 times more beagles or labs that attack people in the US in a year then black bears. Most of what you will see is the back end of a bear running away. Can they attack? sure they can but you can get hit by lightning too and its probably a similar percentage of chance as there is getting attacked by a bear. Do you stay home when its raining?? Ive know people that have had dogs killed by them but mostly its because the dog went after the bear. Ive never heard even one instance up here of a bear attacking a person. Maybe a mock charge or two in the spring if you get near there babys but even they they usually run like heck and leave the babys behind. Most of this stuff comes from scared city people that dont undertand them and from guys that want to feel like there brave to go into the woods with there 44 mags for bear protection. I walk in bear woods about daily. Lately i have been carrying a 22 or a 380 but sure not because im afraid of black bear its because the wolf population has about trippled i the last few years and i hear them howling every night and have even came up on them on my walking trail. Reason i carry a gun is im afraid my dog that walks with me will get attacked or want to go play with the doggy not knowing any better. If you want to carry your 458 mag while walking in the woods its your choice but your going to carry a 10lb rifle around for 70 years and probably never even see one let alone the VERY VERY RARE chance one might mock charge you or the infinitely minute chance youll be attacked. Mountian lion Grizzly, Brown bear, or wolves? There in a different league then black bear. I know many whitetail hunters up here that have never seen a bear in the woods. WHY? because there gone at the first sound or smell of a human. Better wear a hard hat too because a tree might fall on your head and trees kill MANY more people each year then black bears. Your in much more danger driving to work monday morning in your car then walking in the woods in bear country. Might want to consider wearing a full faced helmet for the commute.

[Lloyd Smale]

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=420498629274890249 338838380552 there you go. An average of 3 people a year and that lumps america and canada together. Comical thing is some who feel the need to wear a gun to against odds like that are the first to complain about wear a mask in walmart to prevent a disease that has killed hundreds of thousands this year alone. probably more then have been killed by black bear since man walked on earth.

[Three44s]

My “can of Universal Bear Spray” is a Smith & Wesson Mountain Gun in 44 Mag.

It does not weigh 10 # either.

Three44s

[blackthorn]

We have lots of Bears around here. I am not particularly afraid of Black Bears, but I have a healthy respect for them (or anything else that can chew me up). Two things I have personally witnessed:
I was watching two Canada Geese in shallow water along the river bank across from our house. I saw a (brown) black Bear coming through the underbrush, headed for the river. As soon as it broke out of the brush, the geese spotted it and immediately went on the attack. The two geese charged toward the Bear flapping their wings and honking. The Bear turned around and took off as fast as it could go. Geese 1, Bear 0.

My neighbor has a small fruit orchard across the road from me. One afternoon there was a Bear in the tree eating apples. The neighbor’s two little toy poodles came tearing out of the house and ran barking toward the Bear. The lady then chased after her dogs (idiot) but not to worry, the Bear exited the tree and took off away from those two little dogs.

[white eagle]

laws were made to be broken ask any liberal
where is the common sense in Canada
with the percentage of bears there that would be the last thing I
would do is have my gun locked ammo separate and locked in my cabin in the woods
who is checking BTW
non sense laws

[10x]

A bear is a predator and if a bear believes it can attack and eat you, there will be an attack.
In the 1980s bear encounters ending in injury or death in Alberta were grossly under reported. One year there were at least 5 folk killed by bears, one a child in a campground, pulled out a sleeping bag at night, one a child at bible camp who peaked into what was believed to be a vacant bear den, and 3 oil field workers were killed an eaten by a black bear. There were also a number of folks injured that year. I worked for Alberta Fish and Wildlife and the numbers were not published internally or publicly but the problem wildlife folks in the office were very candid about recovering human remains from dead bear digestive tracts - they used the stainless steel table in my fisheries lab to do their autopsies on bears to determine if they had got the right bear.
These guys covered an part of Alberta that was almost as large as Washington state. and was only 1/2 of the Eastern slopes of the Rockies and foothills in Alberta.

The folks in tourism worked extremely hard to suppress any release of information about bear attacks.
A couple of the folks I went to school with died as a result of bear attacks. I found out years after they died.

[Ozark mike]

Yep i hear of bear attacks on a regular basis but the published numbers dont match

[10x]

Yep i hear of bear attacks on a regular basis but the published numbers dont match

There is a reason, outdoor tourism drops when bear attacks get published.
In 1986 my wife and I had a ten trailer. We used it camp on the way to Eugene Oregon.
My wife started reading Steve Herrero's book on bear attacks to my kids, every one loves a bear story? don't they? It took three days before both wife and kids would stay in a campsite in the tent trailer after an evening of reading Herrero

https://www.amazon.ca/Bear-Attacks-Their-Causes-Avoidance/dp/149302941X/ref=pd_day0_14_5/144-6518477-6898468?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=149302941X&pd_rd_r=2388932f-1615-457f-ab3a-311fef992fb7&pd_rd_w=oKptz&pd_rd_wg=UZpN3&pf_rd_p=822744bc-ff0e-4652-bcbd-ae90593c69db&pf_rd_r=YMTFN1WQX2CJM91FNP6C&psc=1&refRID=YMTFN1WQX2CJM91FNP6C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Herrero


Herrero is an interesting read but Gary James Shelton seems to have a better (if not apocryphal) handle on how bears behave - Herreo seems to have formulated theory. 60 years of living in Bear country have me leaning toward's Shelton's actual experiences with bears and research on bear attacks.

https://www.amazon.ca/Bear-attacks-James-Gary-Shelton/dp/0969809913

[Ozark mike]

Getting rid of tourist hmmmm i wonder how i could use this to my advantage:twisted:

[Lloyd Smale]

sorry guys I dont know what kind of bs news you have where you live but if a bear actually attacked someone around here the news sure wouldnt cover it up and it would be impossible to make go away. This isnt LA or NYC. We had a big bear right in my back yard that wondered into a local campground. Go by there today and theres bear signs everywhere and two roads right accross from the campground were gated off and the dnr put danger bear in area signs up. That said this whole area is nothing but a tourist business and if it was to get covered up to help tourism THIS is the place it would have been done. Heck i even hear tourist say one of the reasons they go hiking around here is the possibility of seeing a bear. matter of fact the dnr set traps right accross the street in the area of those two roads and i saw our local dnr officer last week and asked him if they caught that bear. He said NOPE we had to give up and pull the traps out because our game cameras showed 10 or more people a day that walked over from that camp ground and walked right up to the traps. He said he was afraid the baited traps and tourists stupid curiosity would cause a REAL problem.

[Lloyd Smale]

We have lots of Bears around here. I am not particularly afraid of Black Bears, but I have a healthy respect for them (or anything else that can chew me up). Two things I have personally witnessed:
I was watching two Canada Geese in shallow water along the river bank across from our house. I saw a (brown) black Bear coming through the underbrush, headed for the river. As soon as it broke out of the brush, the geese spotted it and immediately went on the attack. The two geese charged toward the Bear flapping their wings and honking. The Bear turned around and took off as fast as it could go. Geese 1, Bear 0.

My neighbor has a small fruit orchard across the road from me. One afternoon there was a Bear in the tree eating apples. The neighbor’s two little toy poodles came tearing out of the house and ran barking toward the Bear. The lady then chased after her dogs (idiot) but not to worry, the Bear exited the tree and took off away from those two little dogs.

thats the way REAL black bear act. People want to lump all bear species together and black bear act totally different the brown, griz or polar bear do. But the some need to reinforce there manhood by thinking there doing something dangerous without really doing it. Anyone that knows the UP of michigan knows this is BEAR country. Youd think if they were so dangerous wed have at least one case of someone being killed or mauled by them. heck ive even heard of a couple cases of deer charging and goring people with there horns. Even rabid raccoons. My ma would laugh at you guys claiming your need a 44 mag or 454 to walk in the woods. Heck I once saw her a shoe bear off the deck with a broom.

[Ozark mike]

Blackies are diffrent where a brown will toy with ya if a blackie is stalking ya it is planning on eating ya well around here anyways this is usually in the spring right as the come out of hibernation and yes i carry the biggest honken gun i can find not for blackies but for grizz

[monadnock#5]

Google mountain lion sightings in NH, and be sure to get the official NH Fish&Game stance on the subject. Hidden, personal and/or secret agenda?

[Lloyd Smale]

Google mountain lion sightings in NH, and be sure to get the official NH Fish&Game stance on the subject. Hidden, personal and/or secret agenda?

yup, Michigan dnr denied it for years. even with farmers having cows killed by them and even after being given pictures of them people took. They finally had to give in and admit there here. Why they wouldnt before is beyond me. That said there arent many and your chance of getting attacked by one of them is about like the chance of a meteor hitting you on the head.

[monadnock#5]

I think that's the whole point isn't it? People who don't know any better are told they have nothing to worry about when they see a mountain lion (wait, what mountain lion?) or a bear cruising the back yard. And every year some poor unfortunate, who listened to and believed the experts, pays the price. Oh well, we on the east coast have nothing to worry about. It's only those on the west coast killed by sharks, lions and bears. Oh MY!

[Lloyd Smale]

just mowed my grass. Found 5 piles of fresh bear scat by the apple and plumb and peach trees. Closest one was about 10 yards from the back door of my house. Guess i better put a scabbard and a 458 on the mower.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think that's the whole point isn't it? People who don't know any better are told they have nothing to worry about when they see a mountain lion (wait, what mountain lion?) or a bear cruising the back yard. And every year some poor unfortunate, who listened to and believed the experts, pays the price. Oh well, we on the east coast have nothing to worry about. It's only those on the west coast killed by sharks, lions and bears. Oh MY!

ya and to live in fear of it would mean stopping the even more dangerous things in your life like driving a car or going outside in a lightning storm or drownings when your fishing boat sinks. Riding your harley or 4 wheeler without a helmet, Or eating real food instead of grazing all statistically more apt to get you killed. While your at it you might want to stop other dangerous things like fooling around with lead or shooting guns. Its usually the people that DO know better that will tell you how remote the chance of getting attacked for no reason in the woods by a black bear is. Its the walter middy type that want to pretend there brave just walking in the woods that promote this unwarranted fear. Youd best stay armed 24/7 up here because its not uncommon to have a bear right in the middle of town. Never know it might get you when your pumping gas at the shell mart. Now like i said if i was going to spend time in the woods in brown bear or griz territory id go strapped but kids play in the woods here and ive yet to hear of one gettin et. Weve had a few pets locally get ate by wolves and they will attack without provocation but never even heard of that with a black bear. For one thing we are not on there normal diet. Maybe if you smear raspberry jelly all over your wife and hand cuff her to a tree (by the way one brilliant guy here went to jail for doing that:holysheep[smilie=f:) Most likely the ones that it makes nervous are the type that are much more likely to die of a heart attack because thats not all they fear.

[Lloyd Smale]

just saw this today and on a liberal web site. Seems even they arent to scared of them. This is a typical reaction when a bear meets a human. Well i shouldnt say typical because the typical encounter is seeing the but of one running away as fast as it can. https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/bear-nudges-sleeping-man-awake-startling-both-of-them-see-the-video/ar-BB194aYg?ocid=msedgdhp

[Mr_Sheesh]

Tch, jelly? If you want a bear to take real interest, try BACON, then they might nibble on the ex or whoever :p

[monadnock#5]

just saw this today and on a liberal web site. Seems even they arent to scared of them. This is a typical reaction when a bear meets a human. Well i shouldnt say typical because the typical encounter is seeing the but of one running away as fast as it can. https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/bear-nudges-sleeping-man-awake-startling-both-of-them-see-the-video/ar-BB194aYg?ocid=msedgdhp

https://nypost.com/video/man-feeds-wild-bear-out-of-his-mouth/

If we were all smart enough to let the bears be bears, you would be correct. Obviously however there are morons in world. A bear, any bear, that associates people with food is a dangerous bear. One would have to be completely oblivious not to understand this.

[monadnock#5]

I live in a neighborhood that got carved up pretty well in the last ice age. Lots of steep streets and rolling hills. Many, many places just perfect for an ambush. Do the bears, and the morons who feed them, make me think twice before taking a hike at 2am? You bet they do! Especially at this time of year. So don't blame me for taking a few precautions.

[nelsonted1]

I found this postcard on the internet. People are that stupid. I mean standing in the cart until the horse realized a bear is that close and takes off. Feeding the bear is in the normal spectrum of stupidity.

https://l450v.alamy.com/450v/g3bxkp/tourists-feeding-a-bear-in-yellowstone-national-park-usa-date-circa-g3bxkp.jpg