Where are the sporterized milsurps?

[Typecaster]

Talking with my dad (97+ and a gunsmith in the '40s and '50s) last evening, he was waxing nostalgic for the old days when virtually no one could afford a new rifle so sporterizing military models was how he survived. It was obviously a widespread hobby—witness all the how-to articles in American Rifleman, reprints, and books.

So my question is: where did all the sporters go? There should be a s---load of Springfields, Mausers, etc. out there wearing Bishop or Fajen wood, with rollover cheekpieces and contrasting forearm tips with white spacers.

I don't see 'em at the range, or at gun stores. When I do see something military, I'm told that any modification of the as-issued rifle cuts the value considerably. So shouldn't there be a bunch of sporters lovingly butchered by ham-handed amateurs available for sale? And shouldn't they be relatively inexpensive?

Where'd they go? I want 'em...selectively, of course.

Richard

[twotrees]

Father-in-law was in Merril's Mauraders and as a Sgt carried this 03a3. When he discharged he took it home with him. He had started the "Job" on it, then Mass outlawed Hi-power rifles for deer hunting.

He gave it to me on the condition I would finish it. I did and the smile on his face when he saw that Fagen wood and the Leo mount for the scope was worth all the work.

He passed away years ago, but the First day of deer season,EVERY YEAR, that rifle and Francis go hunting again.

Good Hunting,

[Frank46]

Richard, good question. When I live in new york there were always plenty of bubba'd
and some done quite well mil surp sporters. Some of them were suprisingly cheap and some of them only a mother could love and then only on a payday. But here in louisiana they are way over priced, poorly done and usually in poor condition. Have seen a K31 swiss cheesed rifle that went for $25 and I still kick myself for not picking it up for parts. Have also seen a bunch of factory rifles that were truely bubba'd. Like a remington 600 in 308 win that had been painted in a camo scheme. This included action, barrel, stock and even the scope. Was tempting but when I checked out the barrel left it right there. You would think that in this day and age the owner would at least clean the barrel. Nope, rust, pitting and who knows what else was there. If the barrel was bad, what would the metal under the wood would look like?. Frank

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon Take a look at Gunbroker. There are always several for sale. Many are in active use throughout the US. I know several members od the Danville Rifle & pistol club that shoot their particular model.
Some that were never CHOPPED or drilled have received another military stock and hardware. Some drilled models but military configuration are on the auctions.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Today I was in William`s Gun Sight home store in Davision Mi. They had easily 30 or more variations of sand paper and saw skills to former miltary rifles in various countries models and calibers. I was closing an estate and was selling 8 firearms to Williams. One was a sporterised 98 kar mauser still in 8mm with ALL matching serials, I got $150 for it. Depressed economy I was told when I questioned the offer. The widow with me only wanted them gone, I didn`t dare bring any back with me or my good frau would club me with it! They said they had over 2000 used firearms on display with many more in a warehouse. And yes I suspect many were sporters. :confused: Robert

[Kraschenbirn]

There's a pawnshop not so far from here who usually has three or four in the rack...mostly just "drop-in" restock jobs with lower end scopes/mounts. Last time I was up that way he had a mismatched '93 Turk with a cut-down military stock and chopped-off barrel that looked like it had been recrowned with a piece of broken drillbit. Shop was asking $195 - I offered him $40 - and we agreed to disagree.

Was at an estate auction last weekend, though, which included several very, very nice milsurp-based sporters...all of which brought dollars way out of my price range.

Bill

[jhrosier]

Milsurp is no longer a cheap sorce for a basic barreled action to sporterize.
You can buy a new Savage rifle, with a scope, for less than many milsurp rifles sell for these days. Add the cost of a stock and gunsmithing costs to perform the conversion, and you are way behind the curve.
This is a part of what keeps the sporters off the dealers' racks.
The dealers seem to need a huge markup before they will put a gun into stock, so they only offer bottom of the barrel prices for used or sporterized guns coming in the door.
It is almost impossible for a home gunsmith to get an FFL nowadays and the storefront or full time gunsmiths need a pretty good profit margin to stay in business.

There are just too many things working against the sporterized rifle.
That being said, there are frequent bargins on the auction sites from private sellers.
I recently picked up a very nicely done Remington '03 sporter, witha fajen stock and Redfield receiver sight, and near-perfect bluing, for less than $300.

Jack

[eka]

Well, the ones I run across remind me of the antique market. Anything old, no matter what, has a premium price tag on it, just because it's old. I don't mind paying for something nice, but junk is still junk.

I was at the range back in the summer. A fellow that I see there on a regular basis came over to my bench and was looking at my 03A3. He said I've got one of those, but it's been sporterized. He went on to say he'd like to sell it and would take $100 for it. I told him to bring it next week and I'd probably take it off his hands. Well, he did, and it was the absolute worst butcher job I've ever seen. A blind man with ten thumbs couldn't have screwed this thing up any worse. Barrel had been cut off with a dull hacksaw. The sights had been beat off and then ground the rest of the way. The mag cutoff was stuck, so you couldn't remove the bolt. The holes for the scope bases weren't straight. The stock had been inletted with a hatchet. I looked it over and told the guy I'd give him $40 for the action and spare parts. He said he gave $100 for it and was just trying to get his money back out of it. I recommended he try parting it out on the web. What a mess.

Like you, I wouldn't mind a nice sporter that someone with a little talent had converted, but I don't find many of those. Just the boat anchors.

Keith

[Hip's Ax]

My first rifle (I still have it) was a high number Rock Island 03 sporter. Obviously done by a good smith she's lovely and will be mine forever. Shortened and recrowned original barrel with a nice deep blue. Nicely done polished bolt handle, Canjar trigger with properly done scope mount holes on the receiver. Bought it for $125 in 1978.

Had to change the stock and the scope over the years, the original stock cracked badly inside and the old no name 4X scope took a dump a long time ago. She's now in what I figure is a Fajen stock with a Simmons 44 Mag scope.

Haven't hunted in decades but she's my NRA Sporting Rifle High Power rifle and I usually go clean in prone.

[flounderman]

if you are interested in building a rifle on a military action, the turkish mausers with the large ring receiver and small ring threads are a good place to start. mine have a notch in the rear face of the receiver ring, whereas the large ring, large ring threaded turks, don't have the notch. you can use a remington 700 barrel and there is enough metal under the threads to cut small ring mauser threads. depending on how much of the work you can do yourself, you can build a reasonably priced rifle this way. the turks have a high clipslot and the bolt release curves up around the side of the bridge to the clipslot. the bolt guide rail on the left side of the receiver projects too much to allow the drill jig to align correctly on some of them. the actions and rifles were cheap, but I haven't priced them lately. I bought a bunch years ago and am still building from the pile.

[JSnover]

I haven't seen many lately. Don't know if they're just not around or if they don't stay on the rack long enough for me to run across them. Buying a used gun seems like buying a used car sometimes: If it's worth anything at all, they're asking too much for it.

[Lead pot]

Well I have one with the Fajen like you describe but mine has a black spacer in a .22 varminter on a ceskosovenska zbrojovka as brno vz.24 Mauser receiver I build in 1960

[Ricochet]

The primary supply of Turkish Mausers has dried up, and they sell for way more now on the secondary market.

[mooman76]

I see them all the time at gun shows and pawn shops. It's hard to find one that is in original condition anymore.

[DLCTEX]

Sounds as if the Mitchel Arms offerings are bargains. At $295 for a plain one may be a good price for the action, and if the serial #'s don't match you wouldn't get so much greif from those people who cry about desecrating an icon. In my opinion, if I put my money into a gun it's mine to do with as I see fit. If you think it needs to be preserved, pay me for it and put it in your safe. I feel the same way about people who express their opinion about how I raise my children, unsought advice, usually from someone who never raised a kid. I do get a shiver up my spine when I see a Bubba'd hatchet job.

[Boerrancher]

If you fellas only knew how many Hundreds my father and his good friend carved up to build custom rifles. Dad and his friend would do the metal work together, then his friend would hand carve the stock. When the stock was cut and glass bedded, dad would do all of the finish work one it. I still have several of those old guns that Dad and Don built, plus a few that I did myself. There is nothing like a custom fitted hand carved stock on one of those old military actions. The first High Powered rifle I ever had was a 243 win, built on a K98 mauser action. The stock is a little short now, but it works well on those cold days when you have to wear a lot of clothes. I get a bit sad when I see the ones that look like the stocks were cut with a chainsaw, and the metal work was done with a cold chisel and a shop hammer.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[hydraulic]

There are lots of sporterized militaries at the gun shows I go to. Never have bought one; I don't think they look as good as the originals.

[Snapping Twig]

Seeing as how pictures would be nice, here's mine, a Remington 1917 Eddystone that was manufactured in May - 1918. 6 months before war's end, I don't know if it served.

http://http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/SnappingTwig1/PA010009.jpg

http://http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/SnappingTwig1/PA010006.jpg

These are down and dirty shots I took the day I bought it at the pusher's.

Folks are generally down on these rifles, preferring OEM to what I think is a really under rated type - sporters. OEM is good, but many a fine rifle hit the woods after conversion. More practical with a better fitting stock, scope... what's not to like?

Whoever did mine, they were good. Machined reciever and all metal polished and deep blue treatment. Flaming bomb cartouche's, Eddystone E on all parts.

http://http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/SnappingTwig1/PA010001.jpg

This is the rifle Sgt. York used, not the 03 A3. This was the rifle most issued in WW I. This action is the basis of magnum conversions. I could make it into a .340 Wby or a .338 Laupa or whatever I wanted to down the road.

Even has a gaudy inlay of the State of Texas. :)

http://http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/SnappingTwig1/PA010008.jpg

I've been cleaning out the copper for the last two days. Seems this rifle has 90 years of time and copper. Bore looks good, just dirty.

[S.R.Custom]

Talking with my dad... he was waxing nostalgic for the old days when virtually no one could afford a new rifle so sporterizing military models was how he survived.... So my question is: where did all the sporters go? There should be a s---load of Springfields, Mausers, etc. out there wearing Bishop or Fajen wood, with rollover cheekpieces and contrasting forearm tips with white spacers...

Keep in mind, too, that the population of the U.S. in 1945 was 139 million. And what are we up to now, 300 million? Relatively speaking, there weren't that many of those old sporterized Mausers & Springfields to start with... ;)

[Firebird]

A very nice sporterized Krag I bought it at a gun show 5-6 years ago sits in my safe. The military stock was cut down very nicely, they even inlaid a patch to the wooden handguard where the original military rear sight came through. The barrel was swapped for a 24" long one, as it's unstamped I think it is aftermarket rather than a 03 or M1 barrel. The rear sight was replaced with a steel redfield aperture sight, the one that uses one existing screw hole and the hole for the single shot lockout lever to attach to the action. So the action itself is near original, I just need to get a replacement lockout lever one of these days. I'd post pictures, but don't have a digital camera.

Only problem I have with it is it absolutely refuses to feed a cartridge with a pointed bullet. They always jam with the point caught just at the end of the slot the cartridge feeds through from the left side of the action. I haven't made up any rounds with a RoundNose bullet for it yet, so I'm not sure if it's the pointed bullet and the action is ok and has the famed butter smooth Krag workings or if someone messed up the feeding and thats why it was for sale at that gun show.

[PatMarlin]

Like Hip I bought my first deer rifle at a show in 1978. A nice converted M1917. It has a big old wide angle Weaver 3x9. The scope looks as cool as the rifle. Who ever did the job, loved the rifle as it shows. Original sling.

I picked another one up at a gun show few years back. Had the barrel recrowned and gave to the neighbor kid when he graduated High School. Very nice wood on his, nicer than mine.

Kid sure loves that rifle.

[Charley]

I differentiate true "sporters" and chop jobs. Hacking away the forend doesn't make it a sporter! Most of what you see in the pawn shops around here are chop jobs, pure and simple. You do find the occasional period sporter, sometimes inexpensively, and sometimes way, way overpriced.
I've got two nice sporters I've rescued, one an M1917, originally with a reciever sight installed, and later modernized with one of them new fangled scopes. It's still on there, a Weaver 330.
The second is a very nice 1903 MK I. Work looks to be 1950s vintage. Intrestingly, when I bought the rifle it wasD&T, and a scope mounted, but it still had the original safety. Guess the owner never carried a round in the chamber until ready to shoot, and was to cheap to add an aftermarket low safety.
The only problem with the rifle is that at sometime during its life the owner succumbed to that temporary insanity of ten pushed by police departments and insurance companies during the 60s and 70s: he electro penciled his social security number on the front receiver ring. 'course I did get the rifle for $80 because of that bit of idiocy, I guess I can live with it.

[longhorn]

My prize is an '03 Remington, barrel dated 11/42 (no, it's not an '03A3). Turned down bolt handle, but no D&T, just a lovely old Lyman receiver sight with target knobs and a pretty decent walnut monte carlo stock from Bishop--at least the buttplate says Bishop. Fits me like a glove. Good trigger; I plink with it.

[tanstafl10]

late getting to this thread, but I have an Enfield 1917 30/06 that is somewhat sporterized.

stock is bedded with cheek piece and wide flat fore end. not finished real fine, but that will be my job. original barrel (badly surface rusted) rear sight missing to allow scope mounts.

only thing I am concerned about is that it might have a headspace problem. Several cases on my reloads have split half way around the head. Made me dig out my stuck case remover tool. I need to check that out yet. Have not shot it much because of that. I need to decide on what to do next, because it shot 3 rounds factory with all 3 touching when I was checking it out (NO splitting with factory ammo). That was at 50 yds, but the 100 yd group wasn't bad either 1 1/2 inch. And that was probably due to operator more than rifle.

this rifle came from an elderly gentleman, and I also know another elderly gentleman (80+) that has a magnificent 03 that his father sporterized.

They are out there, just not being used as much now days.

[eka]

tanstafl10,

I'd get it checked out for sure. You can buy a no-go guage fairly reasonable. You might also consider just neck sizing to see if that helps. Good luck, she sounds like a shooter for sure.

Keith

[Bret4207]

I imagine many of them are sitting in closets and attics gathering dust, pretty much forgotten. Some of them I've seen SHOULD be forgotten! "Bubba'd" is a good descriptor for some of the hack jobs I've seen and a couple I've taken part in.

[hornsurgeon]

i have built or owned several on the mauser action. 22-250, 25-06, 270, 7x57, 30-06, 8x57, 35 whelen, 9.3x57, and 375-284. i just took in on trade a 7mm ackley improved that i posted here for sale. these are fine rifles with classic lines, they have a soul, not like the plastic cookie cutter things being turned out now.

[Boerrancher]

I have an Enfield 1917 30/06 that is somewhat sporterized.


only thing I am concerned about is that it might have a headspace problem. Several cases on my reloads have split half way around the head.
I need to decide on what to do next, because it shot 3 rounds factory with all 3 touching when I was checking it out (NO splitting with factory ammo). That was at 50 yds, but the 100 yd group wasn't bad either 1 1/2 inch. And that was probably due to operator more than rifle.



Here are some suggestions that I have found work well to solve your problems with your P-17 Enfield.

1. The P-14 and P-17 Enfields lock up with an interrupted thread on the locking lugs. This was done so that as the locking lugs wore in, the folks in the Ordinance Corps could adjust the head space with out resetting the barrel. This is done by slowly removing metal from the bottom of the bolt handle where it comes in contact with the receiver when closed. Only remover a thousandth or so at a time, or you will end up removing too much.

2. Check out your resizing dies, some die manufacturers make their dies to resize casings a bit smaller than factory ammo, so that the reloaded cases will work in a tight chamber. You can resolve this problem by backing off your sizing die a few turns.

I don't know how many of those old rifles I have worked on over the years that had the same problem as yours. One of the last things you want to consider is resetting the barrel. These two suggestions listed above will take care of your rifles problems. Try #2 first and if you are not happy doing that then do #1. As #1 will always work if the barrel is not shot completely out, which it sounds like yours is not.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[69daytona]

I have a 1903 with a hart heavy barrel, timney trigger and boyd's thumbhole stock, has a nikon 6x16 buckmaster on it. it was headspaced for .001 so sizing the brass has to be right on, its still in 30-06 and shoots very well, I think I gave 75 bucks for it without the scope and boyds stock.

[PatMarlin]

That's interesting as I've had similar problems with my Eddystone m1917.

The headspace checked OK at the gunshop, but when I've spent some time on working up loads, some of the cases were sticky with flatened primers that should not have been.

I shoots factory ammo fine. I got busy and never got to the bottom of the problem, so in the safe it's sat for quite a few years.

[Lead pot]

This is my 1937 VZ-24 Ceskoslovenska.
I didn't have the heart to drill holes in the front ring over the 1937, so I used extender's.
The barrel is a re chambered .222 to 22 varminter.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_0189.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/?action=view&current=IMG_0189.jpg)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_0188.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/?action=view&current=IMG_0188.jpg)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_0185.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/?action=view&current=IMG_0185.jpg)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_0190.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/?action=view&current=IMG_0190.jpg)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/th_IMG_0183.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/940Leadpot/?action=view&current=IMG_0183.jpg)

[PatMarlin]

Ooh nice Vz. I've got a 1936 year in the great 358 Winchester.

[MT Gianni]

I shoot sporterised mausers in 243, 7x57, 280, 30-06, 35 Whelen and have an 98 8mm I can't decide what to do with.

[PatMarlin]

Send it to me... :mrgreen:

[tanstafl10]

eka and boerrancher,

did not want to pirate the thread, but ...

Thank you

[CastorRiver]

No, Alvin York WAS armed with a Springfield '03 during the action that won him the Congressional Medal of Honor. His sons were interviewed by American Rifleman several years ago. They said his unit was armed with Enfields but he somehow managed to retain his Springfield when they were shipped to France. The sons said their dad could never adapt to a peep sight. Too many shots fired over the open sights of a muzzleloader.Alvin's Springfield was lost or stolen on the boat coming back from France. It is probably in a pawnshop somewhere with a Fajen stock and Tasco scope. I will dig this citation out of the files if anybody is interested. FWIW.

[mike in co]

the last 03 sporter i saw, was bought by me and retro fitted to mil config but with a scope(as it was already d/t'd)
use it once or twice a year for mil scoped matches.

mike in co

[44man]

Can't have my Swede! [smilie=1: I made it from cherry I chainsawed in my woods.

[44man]

I don't know how to post 2 pictures in one post.

[Scrounger]

Apparently you're using the "Upload From The Harddrive" method. Simple. Just do the second, third, fourth, whatever, just like you did the first. If memory serves me correctly you can upload up to 9 pictures in a post. There is also a cumulative total, so you need to go back and delete some of the old ones periodically. There is no limit to size or number if you use the method whereby you upload your photo to Photobucket or some other free hosting service. All you enter in your post is the IMG link to the hosted photo. PM me if you want information on setting up a free account and linking the pictures to your posts.

[44man]

Thank you, I will try it next time.

[PatMarlin]

Nice work 44. Did you do the checkering also?

[44man]

Yes, that was also my second checkering job. Everyone I knew kept asking if I checkered so I bought a pack of tools and a cheap cradle.
I took a scrap piece of walnut and totally destroyed it! :mrgreen: Beaver city!
I just could not waste my time on scrap so I took my .22 and drew a pattern on it and it came out perfect, not a single bad diamond.
It takes 4 hours or more for each panel. I must have 26 hours in the Swede just to checker it. I used one of the patterns from Brownell's.
I built a lot of custom rifles for friends with fancy checkering but it scares the hell out of me to take the tools to a $300 piece of wood! :???:
Did I tell you I hate doing it? [smilie=1:

[Boz330]

Yes, that was also my second checkering job. Everyone I knew kept asking if I checkered so I bought a pack of tools and a cheap cradle.
I took a scrap piece of walnut and totally destroyed it! :mrgreen: Beaver city!
I just could not waste my time on scrap so I took my .22 and drew a pattern on it and it came out perfect, not a single bad diamond.
It takes 4 hours or more for each panel. I must have 26 hours in the Swede just to checker it. I used one of the patterns from Brownell's.
I built a lot of custom rifles for friends with fancy checkering but it scares the hell out of me to take the tools to a $300 piece of wood! :???:
Did I tell you I hate doing it? [smilie=1:

For someone that hates to do it you are awfully good. I tried my hand at it years ago and didn't do too bad, but the eyesight is a problem now, not to mention patience.
I have sporterized a couple over the years and don't apologize for it. In the 50s & 60s milsurps were 3 for $39 mail order. Factory guns were 2 or 3 weeks pay for a factory worker who could likely help feed his family with the occasional deer. Military rifles have a lot of features that work well for combat and sustained fire, but are useless and extra weight for a hunting situation. Add to that the skill of a lot of the folks from that generation and you can have a funtional freezer filler or a work of art for a few pennies more.
I agree that there are a lot of Bubba's out there, but to many of these guys it was a matter of a functional firearm that fed his family. Just think of some of the stories that maybe some of these Bubba chopped firearms might tell, along with their war stories. Many of us tend to look at these things from the direction and financial ability of a collector, not a poor coal miner or tenant farmer who is trying to raise a family in the 40s, 50s, & 60s.
The #4 in the attached foto was done by me in 79. The barreled action was given to me by a friend that didn't have a use for it for $15, the stock was $40, scope mount $15. I gave it to my Godson in 91 for his 12th Christmas, thats him in 05 with a deer he took at 242yds with it. What better legacy for an old war horse and hopefully he will have a son to pass it onto some day.

Bob

[44man]

Boz, I have to agree with all you said, about eyesight even more.
There was just nothing wrong with buying a surplus rifle cheap and making it lighter. After all, they didn't cost much and were good shooters. The collection market today is crazy though and prices are going out of sight.
I got my Swede in trade for one of those little airbrush compressors. I did all of the work including changing the barrel for one with less pitting and setting the head space. I made my own barrel and receiver clamps. I set head space by stoning the front of the receiver so the barrel screwed in farther. I used layers of masking tape on the shell head to get it right. I didn't have a lathe then. I cut the barrel to 26". My gunsmith friend drilled and tapped it, bent the bolt and blued it. I have $45 in the gun total.
This things shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yd's even with the rough barrel.
I shot a lot of deer with it but it was so easy I retired it and use only revolvers and bows now.
Would I do it again? Sure, but just for myself. Being retired on a fixed income makes it hard to buy another though and I don't even know how I can stock up on some powder and primers before the creep gets in office.
If you buy a chop job cheap and the metal wasn't fooled with, it is still a good gun. Accuracy of some will blow your mind!
I still have a pile of thick, rough cut cherry and walnut in the barn, so who knows?

[CSH]

I was fortunate enough to pick up some military sporters a few years ago. The father of one of my wife's coworkers died, and he had quite an accumulation of rifles. I ended up with 5 Mausers and 1 Eddystone Enfield for $800. All but one of the Mausers have been D&T'd, all have custom Monte Carlo stocks and the bolt handles turned down, and all but 2 of them have custom barrels in non-military calibers. He would send the actions out for machining work, but he bought the tools to do the stocks himself, and all are pretty well done for an amateur. I had to do a little work on some of them for 100% reliability, including replacement the bolt on one of Mausers and buying an ejector for the Enfield, but the others are OK as is. He had the cheapest Bushnell scope on all of them that were D&T'd, so I replaced those as well. I occasionally take one of them hunting, but only when I don't mind hauling around the extra weight. The difference is very noticeable as compared to my "regular" rifle, a Weatherby Vanguard with synthetic stock.

The fellow who owned these had purchased about 100 milsurps over the years and did the sporter treatment to about 75 of them. There were still some original Mausers, 03A3s, P-14s, and P-17s that he never got around to working on. His son inherited all of these weapons and sold about 50 of the sporters, so he has quite the collection of milsurps that were never modified. I saw most of the unmodified guns, and some were in almost mint condition. We joked about how much the sporter rifles would be worth if he had left them alone too, but it was cheap project material at the time.

I personally know where 20 of the other rifles ended up, and they will spend most (if not all) of the next the 40 years in a gunsafe. I would imagine the same for the remaining sporters. They are neat rifles but just not as user friendly for the average deer hunter as currently produced bolt actions.

[Boz330]

Would I do it again? Sure, but just for myself. Being retired on a fixed income makes it hard to buy another though and I don't even know how I can stock up on some powder and primers before the creep gets in office.
If you buy a chop job cheap and the metal wasn't fooled with, it is still a good gun. Accuracy of some will blow your mind!
I still have a pile of thick, rough cut cherry and walnut in the barn, so who knows?[/QUOTE]

The last couple weeks I have been culling my safe of stuff I don't shoot anymore or don't have an attachment to and converting that into powder and primers. I figure that unless I take up another spray and pray sport I'm good on primers for the rest of my life even if that is fairly long. Even if the worst doesn't come to pass the price ain't going down.
I've got a sporterized Swede as well and that is a real tack driver and a great deer rifle. I'm looking for more of a challenge in deer hunting as well so I mostly hunt with MLs or BP cartridge rifles and iron sights. Never had enough time to spend with a bow to where I felt comfortable hunting with one. Maybe when and if I retire. The current economy has set that back aways, just hoping to have enough business to keep my head above water for the next couple years.

Bob