38 Spec +P 158 gr JHP BE86 OAL Question

[spur0701]

Hi guys.....Am putting together some +P 38 Special loads with some 158 gr JHP using BE86. Alliant says the max is 5.7 gr of BE86 and list a minimum OAL of 1.5 inches, see here: https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=27

When I go for that minimum OAL though I'm way off the crimping groove of the 158 gr JHP, should I crimp to the groove or crimp to the min OAL that Alliant list in their data? Any advice or thoughts are appreciated.....thanks!

[tazman]

Which JHP are you using?
What is the OAL when crimped in the crimp groove?
Need this info to know what recommendation to make.

[spur0701]

Not sure who the manufactures is, I picked up 1K from American Reloading for a good price, I think they were pulled though they don't show any marks....they were listed as semi JHP....see pic. When I crimp at the groove they measure out at 1.45.

[kenton]

I generally crimp in the crimp groove just for the sake of consistency. But do note that if your round are too long they may not chamber and if they are shorter you may increase your chamber pressure. Additionally if you read the safety notice you have to click through to see the reloading data you will see Alliant recommends reducing all loads by 10% for a starting load. So your starting load is about 5.1gr with a max load of 5.7gr.

[35remington]

If seating to the crimp groove is shallower seating depth than the min OAL recommended, you are okay but will also suggest loading some lower powered ones to start.

Unfortunately 158 JHP component bullets work better at 357 speeds for the most part.

Those don’t look like good designs if expansion is expected. Suspect those are essentially FMJ.

[evort]

Use the start load data and see how they shoot, maybe a little less than the start load since they seat a little deeper.


If seating to the crimp groove is shallower seating depth than the min OAL recommended, you are okay but will also suggest loading some lower powered ones to start.

Unfortunately 158 JHP component bullets work better at 357 speeds for the most part.

Those don’t look like good designs if expansion is expected. Suspect those are essentially FMJ.

Agreed, those look like FMJs that have a hole drilled in them.

[Chad5005]

they look like speer and my data says col 1.455 so id crimp in the groove

[35remington]

The Speer Gold Dots have a much different nose profile and hollowpoint than those possess.

[ddixie884]

I always crimp in the groove.

[pettypace]

If seating to the crimp groove is shallower seating depth than the min OAL recommended, you are okay but will also suggest loading some lower powered ones to start.

Unfortunately 158 JHP component bullets work better at 357 speeds for the most part.

Those don’t look like good designs if expansion is expected. Suspect those are essentially FMJ.

I agree. I doubt they'll expand. But I wouldn't be surprised if they "tumble."

Take a look at Lucky Gunner's gel test of the Hornady 158 gr XTP from a .38 snubby. If those guys didn't flip, they likely would have penetrated twice as far as they did.

Here's a pic from that Lucky Gunner test showing the XTPs headed the wrong way:

267381

(That 18.8" of penetration is in Clear Ballistic gel is probably more like 15" in 10% ordnance gelatin.)