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AmBraCol
12-04-2008, 09:26 AM
Good morning to all y'all on the Cast Boolit forum! Old Ironsights saw an inquiry I made over on the levergunscommunity.com forum and suggested I post over here. Well, I didn't realize that Cast Boolits HAD a swaging forum - it'd been a while since I browsed by. So I dropped on over and took a look, did a search and found zilch about swaging airgun pellets. But tons of stuff on swaging! I'll have to browse around later on and see what else I find. :)

Anyway, I'm a missionary working in the country of Colombia. The shooting sports here are VERY limited, one freedom remaining (so far) is that of using airguns for sport. So I've picked up a Gamo CFX and a Crosman 1377 (which I modified with a Crooked Barn breech and a few internal mods as well) both in .177 caliber. A problem we have is that our pellet selection is both limited and sparse. In other words, we have few choices (mostly gamo, chinese or national) and these can be few and far between. Well, for years I've thought about swaging or casting pellets, but info is not easy to find. I looked over at Corbins' site and they mention that they make airgun pellet swaging dies that can be mounted on a regular loading press. Now THAT's more like it. Something relatively simple and easy to use, and most of all - relatively cheap. Inexpensive is my middle name. :D But even though it's RELATIVELY cheap the cash outlay is (by my standards) quite substantial. So I'd like to hear from folks who've played around with Corbins' pellet swaging dies - or any other brand you might have found over the years.

What kind of guns did you shoot them out of? What kind of accuracy? Were you able to tailor the pellets to the gun to improve accuracy?

My main concern is to be able to supply myself with an accurate (inch or so groups at 50 meters is my goal) pellet. If I can modify profile and length and weight and etc - so much the better.

I really appreciate any info y'all could give me on this matter.

Thanks!


Paul - in Pereira

Old Ironsights
12-04-2008, 09:33 AM
As he waits patiently...

Hi Paul. ;)

mister gizmo
12-04-2008, 02:18 PM
Years ago (long before he passed away) Don Nygord made and sold a simple, inch and a half long, hand-held .177 pellet swaging cylinder for the ten meter air pistol folks. It consisted of a precisely bored cylinder with a push rod for sending pellets through, nose first. The pellets were flat-nosed, hollow-based and soft. No reason that the little pointy-headed pellets wouldn't work just as well.

Nygord sold them for $20 each and occasionally they show up on the Pilkington site http://targettalk.org. I sold a couple but just might have a spare left in the parts drawer.

Although they didn't always improve groups for H&N or RWS pellets, they sure helped the lower priced fodder. Ten meter groups of 5 - 7 mm, center-to-center. I couldn't even guess what they'd do in an air rifle, though.

MIBULLETS
12-04-2008, 10:29 PM
I think what you want is a die that takes a unformed piece of lead and swages it into a finished pellet. Correct? This is a simple single die with a base punch and tip punch in a cylinder bore die. Basically the same as the ones sold for making all lead pistol bullets, just smaller. I have seen pictures of pellets made this way. They look more like the old Sheridan style pellets without the standard skirt.

Richard Corbin www.RCECO.com, would probably make you one cheaper than Dave. You could also call Larry Blackmon (318) 387-3266 and ask. Try CH4D.com as well.

AmBraCol
12-05-2008, 10:00 AM
As he waits patiently...

Hi Paul. ;)

Howdy! And thanks for the tip. :)

AmBraCol
12-05-2008, 10:11 AM
Years ago (long before he passed away) Don Nygord made and sold a simple, inch and a half long, hand-held .177 pellet swaging cylinder for the ten meter air pistol folks. It consisted of a precisely bored cylinder with a push rod for sending pellets through, nose first. The pellets were flat-nosed, hollow-based and soft. No reason that the little pointy-headed pellets wouldn't work just as well.

Well, I've thought of making up something like that, to resize and uniformize skirts on pellets. Simple push through die would do it, wouldn't even have to be very long. If it were tapered then you'd not have to worry about shaving off lead. But the problem I'm having is that the pellets available here won't benefit much at all (if at all) from being "uniformized" in that manner. They are so horribly out of spec weight wise that the variations in roundness and such are relatively inconsequential. What I'm looking at is the Corbin pellet swaging die. But it's a shape I'm not familiar with in pellets. It produces a cylinder with a slight skirt at the hollow end and your choice of tip shape, ranging from WC to "keith type" (SWC) or domed or ??? I've always used the "diabolo" type with the wasp waist and have never had access to the cup shaped pellets. As a kid I saw some a fellow had for his Sheridan rifle - but we never got a chance to shoot it and I didn't ever examine them closely. We DID have access to some cup shaped ones, but they were (as far as I can recall) simple cup shape, no larger rim on the bottom. Not that a rim around the base would have helped since they were horribly irregular. I'd put three to five in my Daisy 880 with 10 pumps and use it shotgun style on running mutts. They wouldn't penetrate but they'd get the point across - stay out of the yard. Anyway, I've never tried any other cup shaped pellet and was wondering if any of the guys here had done so with reasonably good results. I need to run some pellets through the rifle ane catch them without damage so maybe I can get some measurements off them.

http://www.swage.com/ftp/pellets.pdf is a handy dandy little form that might help me piece together what I need to order such a die set.

AmBraCol
12-05-2008, 10:14 AM
I think what you want is a die that takes a unformed piece of lead and swages it into a finished pellet. Correct? This is a simple single die with a base punch and tip punch in a cylinder bore die. Basically the same as the ones sold for making all lead pistol bullets, just smaller. I have seen pictures of pellets made this way. They look more like the old Sheridan style pellets without the standard skirt.

Richard Corbin www.RCECO.com, would probably make you one cheaper than Dave. You could also call Larry Blackmon (318) 387-3266 and ask. Try www.CH4D.com as well.

Thanks for the tips - I'll have to give them a call and see what they say. No mention of pellets on the sites but no telling what they might be willing to produce. Since I'll be playing with relatively small lumps of lead I'm guessing that an RCBS challenger or other such "O" press should be enough "oomph" to get it done. Our reloading laws are such ("Thou shalt not") that I'll not have cause to use the press for anything larger - unless I get the urge to build up a large caliber airgun... :D :Fire: [smilie=1:

Old Ironsights
12-05-2008, 10:24 AM
Yeah, definately try Dave at CH4D. He's a "Good old boy" who worked with me on a set of custom dies for my 9.3x72R.

Careful though, he will talk your ear off and your phone bill will be bigger than the non-coke GNP of Columbia... ;)

AmBraCol
12-29-2008, 12:02 AM
Well, I've been promised an old Corbin Mighty Mite swage press. Now to see about obtaining the proper dies for it. A few e-mails are out - we'll see what turns up. :)

BCall
12-29-2008, 03:53 AM
I don't mean to burst your bubble, and I wish you the best, but I think you will be disappointed. Corbin has sold swaging kits for pellets that you could adjust for, and some have tried to make them, but I have heard few good reports. There was a guy that used to go by the Pelletman, who made pellets for just about any caliber. He went out of business and sold his stuff to Pyramid Air. They still sell some swaged pellets in larger .45 or .50 calibers. They used to sell them in .177 and .22, and I bought some before they stopped making them. They were terribly inaccurate. I could send you some pics of them if you like, I still have them here somewhere.
I think the problem with them is you need a very high power airgun to get the base to deform enough to get a proper seal. Lower power guns just do not have the power to make them work well. The ones in .22 I have are flat based with a hollow point. You need alot of power to get them to seal correctly, or they just won't shoot. Mine grouped around 3-4" at 15 yards. The cupped base solid point ones I have did no better. A long way from the 1" at 50 you are looking for. You also have to get pure lead wire and cut it close to proper weight. Last time I looked, the pure lead wire was kinda high.
If you can get it cheap, have fun, it's a hobby. But I wouldn't get my hopes too high with the lower power guns you have listed. Most of the good stories I have heard about them have been for larger bore shooters who have lots of power on tap, and it seems now most of them are shooting soft lead cast slugs that are more like pistol bullets or muzzleloader slugs.
I hate to hear that quality pellets are hard to come by there, and I hate to dampen your spirits, but these were the most inaccurate pellets I have ever used, and I have tried ALOT. At one time I have more than 100 different types of pellets in 4 different calibers(.177, .20, .22, .25) and the worst traditional diablol pellet was better than them. YMMV, but if you had to pay much for the swaging stuff, you might be better served in trying to find someone to ship you a quantity of pellets instead. Kodiaks, JSB's, and Premiers can do pretty much anything needed short of an ultra high power pcp. Sorry, HTH, Billy
Oh, and I would avoid them in the spring piston guns-not a good seal can result in damage to the seals and main spring.

Pete D.
12-29-2008, 06:07 PM
Hi. This is my first post at this forum, though I've been casting and swaging for quite a few years now.
I have a Corbin swaging press. I was originally interested in swaging airgun pellets. I have never seen the dies for that purpose in a Corbin catalog. Maybe they make them as a special.
"Inexpensive is my middle name. But even though it's RELATIVELY cheap the cash outlay is (by my standards) quite substantial."
If you want cheap, swaging ain't the way to go....unless some one gives you the equipment, dies and presses are expensive. For the cost of a single die, you could buy an awful lot of pellets. For a complete setup, you'd be able to buy enough pellets to last the rest of your life.
If, though, you have a link to Corbin pellet dies, I'm curious to see it.
The other way to spend the money is to buy one of the big (BIG) Korean pellet guns in 9mm, 45, 50 cal.
I have one in .45 and simply swage .45ACP LSWCs to .458 or shoot .45 cal round balls which I cast.
The outlay is substantial, for a gun and a pump, but then you can cast round balls for cheap. And....the guns are a hoot to use.
Pete

BCall
12-30-2008, 12:05 AM
Try this link, and cost is pretty substantial. I would love to swage paper patch bullets, but theres no way I can justify the cost. Billy

http://www.corbins.com/pellets.htm

Pete D.
12-30-2008, 06:36 AM
BCall: Thanks for that link. I have the CSP-1 press and I do use it to swage PP bullets for the .45-70.
Pellets, though.....the dies ain't cheap. Pellets are - even mail ordered.
Pete

Back a bit later. Checked the dies for the CSP-1 press (S-dies). Yipe. Pellet LSWC-1 dies are custom priced - $298.00.
You gotta REALLY want to make your own pellets to spend that kind of money, even if you already own the press.
P

rbt50
12-30-2008, 11:42 PM
if you go to www.corbins.com web page and click on used ,their is a guy selling a bunch of pellet making dies their.most are under one hunderd dollars.