Why do we use Wads?

[northmn]

The original loads used wads and recommended them for loading. Longrange shooters use them. I have tried both bare bullet, bullet seated direcly on the powder and wads and see no difference. I admit I do not shoot at long ranges but still have wondered about their use. Just curious.

Nortnmn

[missionary5155]

Good morning Well it just comes down to all things are never Equal... My 43 Spanish (alias 44-77) shoots best with a wad (cereal box) protecting the base. This Bottleneck brass naturally funnels more matter into a smaller surface than 45-70.
My Pedersoli 45-70 does not seem to be affected by 3F as much as 2F.. could it be harder heavier grain size ? Same for my Remington Roller. My Trapdoor ??? It seems to shoot any FAT (.463+) boolit the same regardless of hardness.
So I try wads... and grease wads and hardness and seating depth and neck tension and.... if it helps YIPEEEEE.. if not oh well...

[montana_charlie]

I haven't found a way to recover fired bullets, but I have seen pictures from others who have done so. Since so much importance is placed on 'flat base with sharp corners', one of the features a 'bullet finder' will be interested in is the condition of the base after firing.

Bullets which had no wad under them, and bullets which sat on thin wads, show 'denting' of that formerly flat surface. When a 'dent' overlaps the corner of the base, it might be supposed that irregularity caused a 'flyer'.
In any case, the surface change will surely(?) have some effect on the aerodynamics of the bullet. That effect may be so minor that it can only be detected (on paper) if the range is quite long, but the effect is there at all ranges.

According to those who examine fired bullets, it takes a wad of .060" thickness to reliably protect the base of a 'soft' bullet cast in one of the popular BPCR alloys.

If you see 'no difference' when testing your wadded and unwadded loads, it's probable you aren't shooting far enough for the difference to be noticeable.
CM

[Gellot Wilde]

I always use a wad, either .030 or .060. I was always led to believe that they not only help protect the bullet base but also help to seal the bore against gasses?

I only get to shoot short range these days so 300M, both wads give a similar accuracy, can't decide which is best. I have never tried the poly wads, they just don't seem right somehow.

:-?

[JeffinNZ]

It's a really intersting topic.

I use a card wad of approx 30 thou in my .38-303 (alias .38/50) and burning 60gr of compressed Swiss 1.5Fg. Shoots GREAT.

In my .380 Rook with the heel bullet I shoot bare bottom bullets over 20gr compressed Swiss 3Fg as there is no point loading an undersized wad. Shoots GREAT.

I wonder if there is direction correlation between the need for a wad to protect the base of the bullet and the size/intensity of the charge?

[zampilot]

So, who compresses after installing a wad or before? I'm hearing it both ways.

[montana_charlie]

When using veggie wads, I place the wad in the case and then compress, because that's the easiest way. If I was using LDPE wads, I would compress first, then add the wad.
CM

[SharpsShooter]

When using veggie wads, I place the wad in the case and then compress, because that's the easiest way. If I was using LDPE wads, I would compress first, then add the wad.
CM

I don't use LDPE. Why the different method? I use a .030 veggie over the powder and then a.030 card on top of that to prevent the veggie from sticking to the base of the bullet and creating the errant flyer.

SS

[montana_charlie]

I don't use LDPE. Why the different method?
Because, LDPE being a more malleable material, it can squoosh out sideways when the compression force is on the heavy side.
It returns to it's previous diameter when pressure is removed, but the case wall can be expanded a little...right where the wad sits.

To prevent sticking to the base, I clean the bases when lubing the bullets. I wipe off any visible lube by spinning the base on a paper towel, then drag it across a piece of hard felt soaked with alcohol.

Prepped bullets are then lined up on another paper towel to wait until they get loaded. I only lube as many as I plan to load in that session.

If you are using card stock to keep the veggie from sticking, that means you half expect some of them to stick. In that case, I would use something even less 'bulky' than card stock...like wax paper, tracing paper, or maybe newspaper.
CM

[SharpsShooter]

MC

Good point about the LDPE possibly ringing the case so to speak. Long ago I simply used an .030 wad and nothing more. Problem was that I had those occasional, unexplained flyers that would open up a group that had been forming up nicely. I mentioned this in conversation to some of the gents at a sillywet match and the card wad was suggested and the uncalled flyers vanished. Newspaper enough to do the same chore eh?

SS

[montana_charlie]

Newspaper enough to do the same chore eh?
I should think so.
The veggie wad is doing the 'wad job' and your card wad is just a 'separator' to keep the veggie from becoming part of the projectile.

Shoot! A light dusting of talcum powder might even do it.
CM

[Gellot Wilde]

If you are using card stock to keep the veggie from sticking, that means you half expect some of them to stick. In that case, I would use something even less 'bulky' than card stock...like wax paper, tracing paper, or maybe newspaper.
CM

I have used greaseproof/tracing paper before on top of the veg wads, seemed like a good idea at the time.

To be honest though I can't say that I've ever noticed or suspected the veg wad sticking to the base of the bullet. I wipe the bases with a solvent to remove any trace of grease so guessed this was enough. Are you fellas saying that even doing that you still risk the veg wad sticking to the bullet base?


Rob

[montana_charlie]

Are you fellas saying that even doing that you still risk the veg wad sticking to the bullet base?
Nope.
SharpsShooter says he uses an intermediate wad to prevent sticking, but he doesn't mention cleaning bases with anything like a solvent.

I clean with alcohol, and don't think I have any 'sticking problem'. But if I did, I would use the lightest paper I could get away with.
CM

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

veggie wads?

Ok Ill bite (Pun Intended) what are they? Potatos? Carrots, Rudabeggas? Do you use Japalinos/Habenaros for Hot Loads?

do you just slice them up and punch them out with the cartridge?

I tried goggling Veggie Wads and not much shows up.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/104/365143468_5d8bd55292.jpg

[zampilot]

Oh Gawd those look like Brussels Sprouts, I have not seen one in 35 years and today is way too soon. Since we're on a food subject, I'll bet parchment paper (the baker's kind) would work well between the wad and lead.

[35remington]

Try googling "Walters Vegetable Fiber Wads."

[montana_charlie]

Heck, I just Googled 'veggie wads' and got a page of results with eight links to BPCR discussions...plus a link to THIS thread.
CM

[Gellot Wilde]

Nope.
SharpsShooter says he uses an intermediate wad to prevent sticking, but he doesn't mention cleaning bases with anything like a solvent.

I clean with alcohol, and don't think I have any 'sticking problem'. But if I did, I would use the lightest paper I could get away with.
CM


Ahhh right

So would it be safe to assume that if you do clean the bases with lighter fluid or similar then adding a thin greaseproof wad or similar is not going to be needed?

[montana_charlie]

So would it be safe to assume that if you do clean the bases with lighter fluid or similar then adding a thin greaseproof wad or similar is not going to be needed?
That is what I intended to convey...as that is my presumption.
CM

[Gellot Wilde]

Mine too. :-D