Right Dies for Loading .45 AR for .455 Webley

[Colony]

I am new to this Forum, have never done any reloading and have not gotten to the equipment stage yet (but it will be an inexpensive single stage press). I'll take my first plunge by hand loading rounds for my Webley Mk VI, which was modified to seat .45 Auto Rim (countersunk chambers, not shaved cylinder). The .45 Auto Rim brass has a slightly smaller diameter than .455 Webley; therefore a bit more play in the Webley chambers. See attached photo.

When reloading Webley-fired (and expanded) .45 Auto Rim brass can (or should) a .455 Webley sizing die be used to bring it closer to Webley spec instead of further down to .45 AR size with an AR die?

On this site some years back, a Canadian gentleman stated that he uses Lee Webley dies to load .455 Webley, .45 Schofield, 45 ACP and 45 Auto Rim.

Your thoughts and experience are appreciated.

Regards

266699

[Mk42gunner]

First of all, welcome aboard.

I never loaded any .455 Webley nor .45 Auto Rim, but I have loaded a lot of .45 ACP. The problem I see is the thick rim of the .45AR case not going into the .455 die. The .455 dies may need to be shortened to allow enough sizing and crimping to be done.

Someone with first hand knowledge will probably be posting shortly.

Good Luck,

Robert

[Colony]

Thanks, Robert. Very much appreciated.

Regards, Walter



First of all, welcome aboard.

I never loaded any .455 Webley nor .45 Auto Rim, but I have loaded a lot of .45 ACP. The problem I see is the thick rim of the .45AR case not going into the .455 die. The .455 dies may need to be shortened to allow enough sizing and crimping to be done.

Someone with first hand knowledge will probably be posting shortly.

Good Luck,

Robert

[Outpost75]

I use RCBS .455 MkII dies to load .455, .45 Auto Rim, .45 ACP (for use in revolvers with moon clips, loading larger bullets of cylinder throat diameter, roll crimped) as well as .45 Schofield and .45 Colt. All you need to do is use the appropriate shell holder, and the Redding die spacer kit, https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/98-die-spacer-kit stacking several of the spacers from the .455 MkII settings for the .76" length case, to back off the expander and seater dies to obtain the right amount of flare and roll crimp, depending upon the caliber. For the .45 Colt you will also need to use extra die lock ring with the spacer kit to obtain the needed height. Be advised this set has a steel sizer and you need to have clean, lubricated cases. However, the .455 size die does not over-work the brass like modern carbide .45 ACP and .45 Colt dies do.

[Colony]

I use RCBS .455 MkII dies to load .455, .45 Auto Rim, .45 ACP (for use in revolvers with moon clips, loading larger bullets of cylinder throat diameter, roll crimped) as well as .45 Schofield and .45 Colt. All you need to do is use the appropriate shell holder, and the Redding die spacer kit, https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/98-die-spacer-kit stacking several of the spacers from the .455 MkII settings for the .76" length case, to back off the expander and seater dies to obtain the right amount of flare and roll crimp, depending upon the caliber. For the .45 Colt you will also need to use extra die lock ring with the spacer kit to obtain the needed height. Be advised this set has a steel sizer and you need to have clean, lubricated cases. However, the .455 size die does not over-work the brass like modern carbide .45 ACP and .45 Colt dies do.

Thanks for this info, Outpost75! This is using the Starline .45 AR brass? Would these spacers be be appropriate for use with the Lee .455 dies? Don't these spacers perform the same functions as backing off the die with a lock ring?

[cwtebay]

I use RCBS .455 MkII dies to load .455, .45 Auto Rim, .45 ACP (for use in revolvers with moon clips, loading larger bullets of cylinder throat diameter, roll crimped) as well as .45 Schofield and .45 Colt. All you need to do is use the appropriate shell holder, and the Redding die spacer kit, https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/98-die-spacer-kit stacking several of the spacers from the .455 MkII settings for the .76" length case, to back off the expander and seater dies to obtain the right amount of flare and roll crimp, depending upon the caliber. For the .45 Colt you will also need to use extra die lock ring with the spacer kit to obtain the needed height. Be advised this set has a steel sizer and you need to have clean, lubricated cases. However, the .455 size die does not over-work the brass like modern carbide .45 ACP and .45 Colt dies do.Well said, I read your post some time ago and have been more than pleased with the results in 455,, 45LC, and 45 ACP. Guessing you got this plan from doing all that boffin(ing).

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[Outpost75]

Thanks for this info, Outpost75! This is using the Starline .45 AR brass? Would these spacers be be appropriate for use with the Lee .455 dies? Don't these spacers perform the same functions as backing off the die with a lock ring?

The Lee .455 dies use the same carbide sizer they use for .45 Colt and work the brass too much. While you could use spacers to back the dies off, you need to replace the Lee lock rings with Hornady, Forster or others having a clamping screw to maintain the base adjustment for the 0.76" MkII case. You can use the original Lee lock ring with the rubber O-ring removed as an additional spacer, which you will need for .45 Colt and Schofield.

[metricmonkeywrench]

There's a warning I remember in the back of my mind about shooting 45 ACP in a Webley-- I believe the jist was that the .455 Webley used a relatively low pressure cartridge and that a normal 45ACP (or 45AR) may be a bit too hot for long term use.

[Colony]

There's a warning I remember in the back of my mind about shooting 45 ACP in a Webley-- I believe the jist was that the .455 Webley used a relatively low pressure cartridge and that a normal 45ACP (or 45AR) may be a bit too hot for long term use.

Exactly why I'm getting into the hand loading!

[Outpost75]

There's a warning I remember in the back of my mind about shooting 45 ACP in a Webley-- I believe the jist was that the .455 Webley used a relatively low pressure cartridge and that a normal 45ACP (or 45AR) may be a bit too hot for long term use.

Normal .45 ACP service loads exceed .455 proof pressure.

266720266721

[Colony]

The Lee .455 dies use the same carbide sizer they use for .45 Colt and work the brass too much. While you could use spacers to back the dies off, you need to replace the Lee lock rings with Hornady, Forster or others having a clamping screw to maintain the base adjustment for the 0.76" MkII case. You can use the original Lee lock ring with the rubber O-ring removed as an additional spacer, which you will need for .45 Colt and Schofield.

You mention the .76" length MkII case, but I will be loading 45AR which is about .9". Wouldn't the basic procedure be to move the ram all the way up with holder, screw the sizing die down until touching and then back off slightly, and use the lock ring. How do the spacers play in that? As to the Lee .455 sizing die, if it is the same as .45 Colt which is slightly wider diameter than either .455 or .45AR, why would the Lee die work the .45 AR brass too much. It seems that it would have less compressing to do.

Again, at this stage I don't know what I don't know, so apologies for all the questions. Just trying to understand.

[Outpost75]

You mention the .76" length MkII case, but I will be loading 45AR which is about .9". Wouldn't the basic procedure be to move the ram all the way up with holder, screw the sizing die down until touching and then back off slightly, and use the lock ring. How do the spacers play in that? As to the Lee .455 sizing die, if it is the same as .45 Colt which is slightly wider diameter than either .455 or .45AR, why would the Lee die work the .45 AR brass too much. It seems that it would have less compressing to do.

Again, at this stage I don't know what I don't know, so apologies for all the questions. Just trying to understand.

If you have no intention to load the shorter Starline .455 MkII cases, then your base die setting should be for .45 ACP/Auto Rim and if you don't use the same dies for loading .45 Schofield or Colt you won't need the spacers. As for whether or not the Lee dies will size .45 Auto Rim brass to much you need to measure your revolver chambers with gage pins and then compare that to sized cases from the dies. Typical .455 chambers are .480" diameter whereas .45 Auto Rim is .476" and Lee sizing dies I have checked reduced cases to .473". Your mileage may vary.

[Colony]

If you have no intention to load the shorter Starline .455 MkII cases, then your base die setting should be for .45 ACP/Auto Rim and if you don't use the same dies for loading .45 Schofield or Colt you won't need the spacers. As for whether or not the Lee dies will size .45 Auto Rim brass to much you need to measure your revolver chambers with gage pins and then compare that to sized cases from the dies. Typical .455 chambers are .480" diameter whereas .45 Auto Rim is .476" and Lee sizing dies I have checked reduced cases to .473". Your mileage may vary.

But I still use .455 dies?

[Outpost75]

But I still use .455 dies?

Lee doesn't make a different sizer die for .455, it is the same carbide sizer they make for .45 Colt.

To get properly dimensioned .455 dies you need to get RCBS or Redding.

[Colony]

I appreciate all this very helpful information. - Regards

[Hogpost]

I have a shaved-for-45ACP MKIV, for which I load black powder (what it was made for) Whether using ACP in half-moon clips or 45 Auto Rim brass, I just used ordinary 45 ACP dies. The case mouth diameter is the same as the 455 Webley. The Lee Factory Crimp Die works perfectly. No need for any special dies if you are using 45 brass.

[Colony]

I have a shaved-for-45ACP MKIV, for which I load black powder (what it was made for) Whether using ACP in half-moon clips or 45 Auto Rim brass, I just used ordinary 45 ACP dies. The case mouth diameter is the same as the 455 Webley. The Lee Factory Crimp Die works perfectly. No need for any special dies if you are using 45 brass.

Thanks Hogpost. What diameter bullets do you typically load for your MkIV when using the 45 ACP dies?

[Hogpost]

.452/.453 made for ACP. Have also used .454 made for Long Colt but they tend to be too heavy, and the extra length restricts the available powder space. Theoretical diff between ACP and 455 is only .002" (.452 vs .454). And I use only very soft lead, so they all "bump" to the bore diameter. I'm more concerned about the amount of BP lube the bullet will carry, than .002" diameter. Swiss 3F powder gives plenty of power and it's impossible to overload. 3 inches of orange flame out the barrel, a cloud of smoke, and a BOOOM that echoes off the hills: great fun, and still a reliable bedside-table badguy stopper.

[Colony]

It is an added plus that these Webleys can still be effective today.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello guys,

Here is a chart which I made up showing the different Dies used for different 45 caliber cartridges.

might answer some questions, AntiqueSledMan.

[PB234]

My recollection is Lee sells an inexpensive Webly die set which worked fine for me. Seem to remember the sizer in the Lee set is the same one the use for 45 Colt, but check my memory.

45 Auto Rim use same die set as 45 ACP with a different shell holder.

Cases from Starline for sure.

Simple and easy to load. Watch the loads for the Webley or risk damage to Webley and body. I recall Outpost75 posting loads. He is a great source for these (and other enjoyable interesting handguns).

Two really enjoyable rounds to punch holes in paper.

There was a firm said to plan on making the Webley automatic revolver again which would have me getting my money in place to buy one. Wonder what ever happened to the effort?

[Colony]

Thanks again, gentlemen, for the good info. Per PB24's interest in a possible repro Webley Auto, I have not heard. Webley & Scott in the UK doesn't have anything on their website, but Webley in India is producing a couple of revolvers in .32 S&W Long (and a model 1911):

https://webleyscott.in/collections/revolvers