.475 Linebaugh for black bear.

[doghawg]

I managed to draw a Wisconsin bear tag this year and am currently baiting three different spots. One spot has the possibility of a longer shot so I'll be using a .338/06 Imp there with a 225 Hornady spire point. The other two stands are in denser cover where a 50 yard shot will be about it.
My 6 1/2" BFR has an Ultradot on it and has accounted for a couple deer at over 50 yards. I have a very accurate load with the 325 gr. Lee GC running at 1125 fps and am confident with it doing the job on a 200 lb. bear or on a whitetail.
But....a large boar I'd guess at well over 300 lb. has been showing up on the camera and while I like the big wide meplat on the Lee I'm wondering if the 400 RCBS (which I also cast) might be a better choice for making two holes in the chest cavity of a large bear.
I welcome any opinions. Thanks

[Three44s]

You have dandy rifle and handgun cartridges!

I would run that RCBS 400 gr in a reasonably stiff load for your .475L and I think you are spot on with your .338-06 Imp.

Good luck and enjoy!

Three44s

[DougGuy]

I doubt the 325 will be recovered from a 300+lb bear, just sayin'

I know a 340gr TC in 45 Colt that ain't moving anywhere near 1125fps will go clean through 42" of hardwood longways.

[DougGuy]

I respectfully call bull

Do I need to post a photo of the recovered boolit? I still have the boolit.

Calling your bull, bull.. Recovered on the ground after passing through 42" of oak firewood. 45 Colt 340gr SSK TC ovre 22.5gr W296 fired from a 4 5/8" Vaquero. Numerous boolits penetrated the stack of wood behind the stack this one went through, some were recovered on the ground between the two stacks, I saved this one.

266664


Nope cause i still wont believe it. You sure it was hardwood I'm not even going to respond to this. The boolit is right there in the pic, the description is accurate, I could care less what you think. Welcome to my ignore list.

doghawg, a 300lb bear wouldn't have stopped this boolit, and it won't stop your 325 moving 1125 either. You shoot whatever you are comfortable with.

[quilbilly]

I have been hunting with a 50 cal muzzleloader for over 30 years. You will be just fine with a 325 gr boolit at that mv if you keep the range under 75 yards and a bear 450# or less ( any bigger and you should start looking for the perfect shot).

[Ramjet-SS]

I have had one Johns handguns way before they were popular. I had a Number 1 Ruger reamed out with one of Johns reeders he let me borrow. 325 grain WFN at 1100 FPS was by far my favorite load in the 475 Linebaugh. I can without question tell you that boolit will run clean through bear at 75 yards or under. I had big baloney Doe facing me at 75 yards I shot her right in the center of the chest under her chin, the boolit Traversed he lengthwise came out her hind quarter and went into the snow and dirt. I don’t care if it’s a 600 lb boar you have enough gun and your load is fantastic. Somewhere in cyberspace I have an article called triple PPP rifle talks about penetration tests I did. Trust me you have good combination and it will the job if you do yours...good luck.

[45stomp]

The 325 at 1100 will kill any black bear that walks. Put it in the right place and get out your skinning knife.

Stomp

[444ttd]

The 325 at 1100 will kill any black bear that walks. Put it in the right place and get out your skinning knife.

Stomp


yep, i agree.


i use a 500 linebaugh in tc encore with a 23" MGM barrel. i haven't gotten a bear, but when i do, a 450gr lfn gc going 1235fps (hs-6) will surely get the bear's attention.

[Norske]

A 300gr cast bullet from a 44Magnum will break down any black bear. If anything, you could be over gunned (nope, no such thing with toothy critters). I'd shoot for the front leg on a broadside bear and let the bullet and bone fragments take out the lungs which are behind the leg in a bear.

[jaydub in wi]

Doghawg,
Congrats on drawing a tag. I only have 2 points as I had a tag a few years ago. I did take my 1st bear last year in Michigan.
If you are still doubting your load, then you should read the post grizzly with a revolver! written by member rugerfan.
After seeing his results with a cast 41 wfn on grizzly, I wouldn't hesitate to use your load on any black bear. Good luck

[white eagle]

I have no doubt the either of the cals you choose will do just fine on black bear
I have been on numerous bb hunts here in Wisconsin my first bb was shot with a 300 wm
at 7 yds (430#) hit him again at 12 yds
bb are no tougher than whitetails to kill put a boolit where its supposed to be and make sausage
my turn will be next year 11 points now I will use almost he exact set up as 444 a MGM 500 L with a 400 gr Keith with 27 gr 2400
best of luck on your hunt have fun

[doghawg]

Thanks for the replies! From what I'm seeing here it looks like the 325 WFN is going to do the job if I do mine. I'm in my seventies and don't really enjoy the full house .475 loads as much lately. Even my .338/06 is tamed down a bit from days of old.

[white eagle]

where you from dog
I am near Sun Prairie shot my bear in Winter,WI.up in Rusk co.

[doghawg]

where you from dog
I am near Sun Prairie shot my bear in Winter,WI.up in Rusk co.

I'm north of Green Bay and will be up in Forest county near Armstrong creek.

[Tripplebeards]

I’m south, close to the MN boarder. I shot one in Winter and one in Rib lake. Both with my 300 RUM. I shot my biggest bear in Canada with an Arrow. It’s was 7’ 6” with 19 3/16” skull. The only bear that didn’t run after the shot was my smallest in WI. I shot it out of a tree using dogs. It was 249 pounds. Like said above bear aren’t any harder to kill than deer but their fat clogs the entry and exit holes. If it were me I’d cast soft so you get some expansion for a good size exit hole for blood trailing if needed. The last bear I shot in rib lake was 7’2” and weighed 350 pounds. Shot it with a 200 grain Nosler Partition I loaded for my 300 RUM around 3000 FPS. It was about a 35 yard shot. I drilled the bear broadside in the lungs. It did a summersault got up and ran a good 45 yards into the brush. It let out 7 or 8 loud blood curdling roars. It was the last minute of shooting light when I shot it. I waited 15 minutes and went to look for it on the dark with a flash light crawling through brush on my hand an knees. It will give you the “heebie jeebies”. even with that gun and bullet choice I had very little blood to follow. I had pencil eraser size drop of blood every two two three feet. The fat clogged the Quarter sized entry and exit holes in the Hyde. When I skinned it there were dinner plate sized holes on both sides of the ribs! The last time I checked the average WI black bear harvested is under 165 pounds so your bullet choice is overkill just like mine was .lol. I use to run dogs with a group of guys 20 years ago. I watched them harvest 13 black bear one year. Every bear ran after being shot accept for my buddies bear and mine. We both were shooting 300 RUMs. I don’t believe it was the caliber choice but the shot placement. We both shot our bear high in the shoulders. The other shooters were shooting their bear in the neck and behind the shoulders. The bear would all drop out of tree they were shot in, get up and ran. Most went 15 to 40 yards at the most and dropped...or were Swiss cheezed with bullets when running away. I have about 10 points now but need to find a place to hunt In WI before I put on for a kill tag again. Make sure to post pics!

[doghawg]

Interesting post Tripplebeards. This will be my first bear. I spent my pre-retirement years working long hours and didn't have the time or energy to bait. From what I've heard from the people with coolers and meat cutting service the majority of bears they see are under 200lbs...some well under so that 165 lb figure is probably spot on. I hope to get one a little bigger.
The last game shot the .338/06 AI was a 5X4 bull elk at 45 yards. I used the 225 Hornady over a full dose of H414 and found the bullet perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the offside. I also shot my best ever whitetail with this rifle which was custom built in 1986. I still had a box of those Hornady's so backed off a bit with about 2500fps worth of H4895 which I hope to chronograph later this week.
The .475 nailed my best handgun whitetail so both these guns seemed like the right choices for what will certainly be the last dance as a bear hunter for me. Took 11 years to get the tag and I'm 72. I'm sitting here with 3 choices of boolits for the revolver....325 Lee, 380 LBT LFN, and 400 RCBS. All are cast between 12 and 13 BHN so expansion might be iffy and that's the reason the big flat nose of the Lee is appealing. The Lee recoil is mild (might kick up the velocity just a bit) and I can stay inside 2" @ 50 yards from a rest with the Ultradot.
I may be overthinking this whole thing but that's half the fun of hunting. There have been some interesting replies to this post thus far and I'm appreciating the input.

[Tripplebeards]

Imo if you see one that’s 200 pounds or over in WI I’d be shooting it. The last one I shot was a 7’2” Boar. I burnt up 9 days vacation a week prior and saw ZERO bear. I went up the following Friday night for a weekend of sitting. Since I knew I only had Saturday and Sunday to hunt I sat Saturday morning and saw nothing again. I sat the same stand Saturday night. The last couple minutes of legal light I saw something black coming through the brush to my bait. I honestly thought it was BooBoo...a young, small bear. At that moment I didn’t care and was just excited to see a bear and had an opportunity to fill my tag after the 9 year wait. Imagine how the exact opposite of ground shrinkage shock I had when I found it. I was pretty tickled because I honestly thought I shot about a 100 to 120 pound bear. My buddy never shot a bear that year. His wife was drawn the year before last and she transferred her tag to my buddies son. He never saw one bear in the same area. We had several Bear coming on all times of day to all our bait sites...until the first day of the hunt. They shut right down and stopped coming to the bait. Then once every Four to five days we would have a Bear visit in the middle of the night for the first week and a half. After that none of the baits were hit again. I have another friend in the Wausau area that between him and his his dad have been drawn three times now. They have had a HUGE bear coming to their bait all three times they were drawn and baited but it never shows during legal shooting light and always disappears once season started. I blame it on them sitting to close to the bait as well.

When I was hunting with the dog runners 20 years ago, when I drew my first WI tag, I shot the largest of 13 bear treed that year. Mine was a 249 pound sow. The others were 112 to 178 Pounds. They following year I went only once with group. They ended up with a 286 pound sow that morning.

If your planning on sitting over bait I would tell you to talk to a few no kill, no pay dog runners as a back up. After the last three bait sitting in rib lake I think it would have increased our odds if we would have sat farther away from the bait sites. Most stands were 25 to 35 yards away. I think a good 75 to a 100 yards to keep your scent off the bait. When was in Canada bear hunting I sat literally on top of the bait. I believe there are so many bear there that they just don’t care if they smell you and there is to much competition for food. Here in WI that are extremely cautious imo. The farther away you can sit from your bait the better. I’d give up deer hunting if I could bear hunt every year instead. Way more exciting and better tasing meat. I never shot a bear with cast but when I do I will cast 50/50 alloy so I get some expansion and a bigger exit hole. I can tell you even with 180 and 200 grain, loaded at 3000 to 3300 FPS expanding jacketed Ammo Blood trails are still very sparse. I’d like to try my 50/50 (ac COWW & pure) cast 35 Rem HP loaded up at at 2100 FPS on one some day. I’m sure it will make one heck of an exit for bleed out if needed.

[jaydub in wi]

Forgot to add to my 1st post... I used a 338 winchester. I was shooting 225 gr Swift A frames over a healthy dose of RL19. I was loading these for a future elk hunt so I wanted to try them out. Don't worry about small exit holes or no blood trail with these. My bear weighed 170 lbs dressed. Either of your choices should serve you well. Good luck

[Tripplebeards]

^^^my first WI Bear was shot with a factory loaded 180 grain swift scirocco out of my 300 RUM. I hit it in the shoulder. Somehow the bullet zippered the Hyde under its wrist all the way up to its chest! The 249 pound sow hit the ground DRT!

[Ramjet-SS]

I am from Lakewood if it’s Boar and it’s a good shot take it average bear is 175 lbs the only ones that hog out are well fed by bait stations...

[reloader28]

A 325-350 cast at 1000+fps will do anything you want. You wont reclaim the boolit.
Call John Linebaugh and ask his advice. Very few people have done as much testing as him and he will know. He's spent alotta time at Hornady testing ballistics not counting his own stuff.
Go to customsixguns.com. I think his phone number is there. If not, let me know and I'll give it to you.

[fcvan]

I have said this before, the 45 Colt, a black powder cartridge launching a 250-255 grain projectile at approx. 1000 fps, was designed to provide through and through penetration of a horse. It is no secret as to why it has been labeled the Cavalry Model. I watched a video of a guy who loaded his Colt using 40 grains of the holy black, and achieved those ballistic results from a 7 1/2" barrel.

That is the measure by which we should judge. Army testing of the day proved out the required specifications, back when live animals were still used, as well as cadaver testing, that being of beef and horses. Many Buffalo, Bear, Pig, Deer, and other North American game have fallen to those basic requirements. At least 40 caliber, at least 200 grains, at least 1000 feet per second.

Keith, Linebaugh, and many other load developers increased the range of such performance through the use of modern smokeless powders and resulting newer calibers. I believe it comes down to putting the desired minimum energy into vital organs at the desired range. Many game animals fell at closer ranges to the basic round ball, but at shorter ranges of the more dense eastern landscape. The bigger calibers became in vogue when the Great Pains required longer distances.

Most North American game fell to lesser calibers but at shorter ranges. Let us not forget that the 1847 Colt Walker was the most powerful handgun until the introduction of the 357 Magnum. Adequate energy delivered to the vitals results in success. All of the energy in the world that misses the vitals will not always be successful. 350 grains at 1000 fps should be awesome.

[jaydub in wi]

Good luck tomorrow, doghawg. Hopefully it's not raining too much where you're hunting.

[sixshot]

DougGuy, a lot of people just don't believe what a big cast bullet will do even when you show them the proof! I've taken 4 elk with a 325 gr cast slug in one of my 45 Colts, never recovered a bullet yet. Pretty sure all of the elk were bigger than a bear.... That bullet, at that velocity will kill any bear out there & most times you will never recover one unless it's from the dirt behind them.

Dick

[megasupermagnum]

DougGuy, a lot of people just don't believe what a big cast bullet will do even when you show them the proof! I've taken 4 elk with a 325 gr cast slug in one of my 45 Colts, never recovered a bullet yet. Pretty sure all of the elk were bigger than a bear.... That bullet, at that velocity will kill any bear out there & most times you will never recover one unless it's from the dirt behind them.

Dick

I'm not sure why people doubt how well a solid cast bullet will penetrate. http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0024.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-innocent-smileys.php)

I really doubt any bear is going to stop a measly little 170 grain 357 magnum, and with a bullet twice the mass, there is no chance. With a 475 linebaugh, I'd be looking at hollow points myself, but I sure wouldn't feel bad at all about using the load you chose. You have something there that could take anything on the planet, including elephants. The one I shot last week was with a 212 grain round ball that fully flattened out, and it still passed through mine. You will be fine.

[white eagle]

I know you got a lot of libs in Minnesota,but elephants?

[reloader28]

I'm not sure why people doubt how well a solid cast bullet will penetrate. http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0024.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-innocent-smileys.php)

I really doubt any bear is going to stop a measly little 170 grain 357 magnum, and with a bullet twice the mass, there is no chance. With a 475 linebaugh, I'd be looking at hollow points myself, but I sure wouldn't feel bad at all about using the load you chose. You have something there that could take anything on the planet, including elephants. The one I shot last week was with a 212 grain round ball that fully flattened out, and it still passed through mine. You will be fine.



I saw a video last winter of an older man (80ish) shooting an elephant with a 475 Linebaugh and a cast boolit. If I remember right it was a complete pass thru with a head shot. The animal dropped instantly.

[doghawg]

Well folks, Sept 11 was the day I learned a little more about cast boolits. At 5:45 PM a nice sized bear came in to the bait. I was in a little makeshift blind of logs and brush up hill 32 yards away with wrists rested on a log. The wind was mostly in my face but shifty so at the first decent broadside I lit off a shot. The bear instantly rolled over and thrashed for a couple seconds then regained its feet and ran wide open into brushy cover on the edge of the cedar swamp where I lost sight of it. After looking for a few minutes I found a drop of blood on a blade of grass about 40 yards from the bait. Then lots more blood and at 80 yards from the shot there she was. Yes, a big very fat sow. I had pictures of her on my motion cam for the last month or so. No cubs.
Upon field dressing this bear the amount of damage had me wondering how she could run that far. She was facing left with her left front leg forward. I put the dot about a foot back from the front leg. The 325 Lee scrambled both lungs and blew through the right shoulder. She must have been slightly angled away but the right leg was back from vertical at the shot.
I thought at first my wimpy load of 12 gr. of Unique under the 325 LEE GC might have fallen short. It clocked at 1160 fps and with the Ultradot from a rest will stay under 2" at 50 yards. Recoil is mild and at my age the heavy loads have lost their appeal. My hunting chum helped me get her out of that mess by dragging her in an ice fishing sled to where we could pull sled with his 4 wheeler. We got her to a local northwoods meat processing place so she was skinned and in a cooler later that night but I didn't get to see the carcass after being skinned. With plumbing out she weighed just over 250 lbs, and meat guy said live weight would have been about 285.
So...at the tender age of 72 I shot my first and last bear and am entirely happy with it. Took 11 years to get this tag.

[nicholst55]

Congrats on your bear! Nothing wrong with a 1-shot handgun kill at all!

[45stomp]

Good show!
Congratulations, well done.

Stomp :drinks:

[Kosh75287]

The ballistics for the .475 Linebaugh (325 gr. @ 1100) sound like a half-step behind the old .45-70-405 load, which has probably dispatched a trainload of larger north American game. I might not want to jump on a brownie with that load, but if it's all I had, I could be far worse off.

[thadfz]

Very cool!!

Congrats


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tripplebeards]

Awesome!!! It took me four years to get my first WI bear tag. I harvested my first WI Bear the day after the actual 9/11. Mine was 249 pounds guts in. Then nine years later tag number two. I shot a 7’2” boar. I have a good 8 or 9 points again but don’t have a spot to hunt so I keep putting in for a point. I live on the southern MN boarder. I have an ultra dot match dot on my anaconda. Might have to use it in my next bear. You definitely are way above the average WI harvest weight! You have to be excited! I’m am for you!

I bet that first 40 yards was a frustrating search. Same thing happened with 2 out of my three bear. No blood or one two drops where I shot and and zero till a good ways out. Just like bow hunting I always watch the last place the animal went out of sight so when it didn’t bleed I at least have an idea of what way it headed. Great job! Would have liked to have been there to help you drag it out.

[white eagle]

excellent, way to do it
fun wasn't it
congrats

[jaydub in wi]

congrats to you, doghawg. That is a fine bear. I'll have to get my 480 ready for next time I draw a tag. Outstanding job

[Iwsbull]

Congratulations awesome bear and great shot.

[doghawg]

Thanks a lot for all the input folks! I'll be running her to taxidermist in the morning. The Lee boolit was cast at about 12 BHN and powder coated with HF Red and sized .476". I'll try to post couple more pics. When at first I couldn't find blood I have to admit I was a little shaken.

[megasupermagnum]

Congratulations. Looking back, mine didn't bleed much either, although mine was a heart shot. I'm guessing it takes longer for blood to pool inside without the pump. Still, the chest cavity on mine was full of blood, and all I saw on the trail was a few drips, and a small hand sized puddle where it died. Inside was plenty. Between the fat, and thick fur, I don't think bears promote blood pouring out like some other animals. I gave up blood trails, even for deer. I go to the spot of the shot, point in the direction they run, and usually they are in sight. If not, I walk in that direction on the most obvious trail, watching for tracks or other sign. Almost every time, just walking down that obvious path leads to the animal.

[DougGuy]

The Lee boolit was cast at about 12 BHN and powder coated with HF Red and sized .476". I'll try to post couple more pics. When at first I couldn't find blood I have to admit I was a little shaken.

Good shot! I bet there is a LOT less doubt now about the lowly 325gr than before!

I never doubted it for a second. I seen my own 320s go through 3 and a half feet of seasoned oak firewood and keep going, there ain't a bear in the lower 48 that will stop a boolit that will do that no matter where you hit him/her at. And that was out of a shorter barreled 45 Colt than your Linebaugh, and probably 200fps slower.

[megasupermagnum]

Lowly 325 grains. :mrgreen:

I'd hate to see your heavy loads. Similar loads in my Redhawk, and I've had enough by 12 rounds.

[Ramjet-SS]

Nice congrats the 325 at 1100 is as we told you a great boolit and will get the job done..

[doghawg]

When I review this experience I've been wondering.....I had three loads to chose from with three different boolits. The 325 Lee WFNGC at 1160 fps, LBT 380 gr. LFN at about 1120 fps and RCBS 400 gr. (actual about 412 gr.) at right at 1100 fps. The Lee was loaded over humble ol' Unique powder and the other two with HS6. All three were about 12 BHN.

The Lee did a complete pass through and tore up the lungs pretty well. All three loads would have killed the bear with the same shot placement but I can't help but wonder if the heavier bullets with their smaller meplat would possibly have been slightly LESS effective? Any opinions? Campfire speculation?

268669

Edit to add...Bear chops are outstanding!!

[DougGuy]

Not to steer the thread but in reference to the comment about the meplat: My deer load is a LBT 250gr OWC which is almost 95% meplat running 1200fps. I picked this because it's nearly a full wadcutter, I believe it would create the most effective wound channel than any of the other WFN designs for the 45. This is the same reason I backed you on your choice. I have not taken game with this exact boolit as we type, but I expect it to be pretty much a 2 hole with a lot of damage between.

It's certainly not a Linebaugh, but these deer aren't wearing armor either last I checked.

L to R LBT250 WFN-PB, LBT250 WFN-GC, LBT250 OWC:

268671

[doghawg]

DougGuy There is no doubt in my mind your load will hammer whitetails and probably bear also. What I'm wondering is if a much heavier bullet with a smaller frontal surface might in fact be somewhat less effective?

My bear went 80 yards after the lung shot. If she would have gone another 50 yards into the cedar/alder tangle she was headed for it would have been been a major ordeal for two old men to get her out.

[megasupermagnum]

It's tough to honestly play the what-if game. I don't think there is any doubt that a smaller flat, at a lower velocity would produced a narrower wound, as a trade off for more penetration. The question is, is the difference significant? I'll give you my only real comparison that I have seen with my own eyes. The 357 magnum Keith bullet with a .250" meplat, and a 44 magnum Keith bullet with a .275" meplat, both going ballpark 1250 fps, give or take. Looking at the deer one right after the other, I honestly could not tell which deer was shot with which. both were reasonably quick kills, producing holes about the same size in and out. Then put a 180 grain XTP hollow point in the 357 magnum, and the wound is dramatically bigger. The trade off is penetration, but in all cases, bullets passed all the way through.