How to Measure 1 Grain of Powder Accurately?

[deltaenterprizes]

I am at the point where I am going to start loading 22 Ladybug ammunition.
I plan to use .25ACP load data because internal case capacity and bullet weight are really close to the 25ACP.
One problem I solved was modifying a powder funnel to get the powder into the case.
I have a LEE micro disk for the powder measure and may make an insert for a powder through die.
Any other ideas on an accurate way to measure such a small powder charge?

[Chris S]

I think for quantities that small I'd use the old dipper method. Just trim a case to where it holds the proper amount of powder, then use it as a scoop. Always scoop the powder the same way, never tap down. You can solder the case to a piece of wire to use as a handle.

Chris

[vagrantviking]

Chris has a good suggestion. Easy enough to cut down a .22 shell and try it for repeatablity anyway.

I've got a Harrell's schutzen measure that is supposed to be good for small charges but it depends on the type of powder and can't always be trusted.

[jimkim]

My Lee PPM will throw 1.3 ans 1.5gr(100 measured charges) of BE all day long. IDK if they will do one grain.

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[Winger Ed.]

Cut down a .22 brass and make a little handle for it out of duct or masking tape.

[country gent]

As mentioned the dipper will work well. Other way would be to modify a lee disk powder measure by sleeving the holes down smaller and re cutting them. One of the newer drums could be sleeved down and a smaller rod made also making a measure better suited to the small charges. An drum measure with the drums cavity sleeved down to 1/4"- 5/16" dia with the rod fitted would work much better for the small charges and be easier to adjust. The lee plastic measures could be done with plastic tubing, rods, and glue. A metal measure would require more machining and press fits or fancy welding. A belding and mull measure could have a simple measure tube made with the smaller bore. A piece of brass 1/2 round stock with 1/4" hole drilled thru it a 1/4" rod and thumb screw. Another plus would be going to fine or extra fine threads for adjustments. Im thinking a 1/4" measuring chamber with 1/4 36 tpi would add about .5 grns per revolution making it easy to adjust

[mdi]

For me a home made dipper and trickler would be best. A 22 lr case with a coat hanger wire soldered to the side would make a good dipper. Either cut it down in length or a drop or two of epoxy inside to lessen capacity. Haven't tried my Lee PPM down that low, but it may work.

I checked on line and a Lee 1.7cc dipper is rated at 1.6 gr of Bullseye. It would be easy to lessen the capacity for 1.0 gr...

[Wayne Smith]

I have a Pacific (Bair branded also) Pistol Powder measure with the slide and the brass inserts that go into the slide. I got a piece of 1/2" brass rod and cut 1/2" slices from it with a hacksaw. Put it in my wood lathe and drill a small hole in it. Ream that hole a little with my Lyman 60 degree reamer. The reamed side is the top, obviously. I've made inserts for 1gr and for 1.2gr. as well as larger. With Bullseye it is remarkably consistent.

[bangerjim]

Yes. I make custom dippers from 22 cut-offs. I silver solder a 6" piece of brass welding rod on for a handle. The volume can always be adjusted down by grinding off a bit more of the rim. To make it adjustable ± make the case long and push cardboard punch-outs down in the bottom and remove one at a time until you get it where you want.

[richhodg66]

When I started to load for .32 S&W for an Iver Johnson top break, guys told me I needed to make a dipper as well. I figured I'd try the easy way first.

For what it's worth, a Lyman 55 will throw 1.1 grain of Bullseye dead on accurately all day long.

[too many things]

a lyman 55 will drop 1 gr every time. if you just use the top slide. the 22 short case super glue to a Popsicle stick and tap on side will do 1 gr of Bullseye . have not tried the 110

[Outpost75]

I had two custom rotors made by my gunsmith in brass to meter tiny smokeless "igniter-booster" charges for my BP-duplex cowboy loads. In the RCBS Little Dandy Measure, the one marked #0000 meters 1 grain of Bullseye, or 1.2 grains of Titegroup for .38 Special and .44 Russian, and the #000 meters 1.5 grains of Bullseye or 1.8 grains of TiteGroup for .44-40 or .45 Colt. The smallest RCBS makes is a #00 which meters 1.7 grains of Bullseye or 2 grains of TiteGroup, which is more than you need for this purpose. Dropped in next to the primer under a full case-capacity charge of Goex 3Fg these enable firing 100+ rounds with SPG lube and no wiping or blow-tubing in either rifle or revolver. Afterwards the guns are sure easy to clean!

"Our Secret"...

[Driver man]

I make a dipper using a 22 case but have found to be consistent I heap the scoop and tap level.

[44magLeo]

MDI, you might want to recheck your figures on the Lee dippers. In my set there is no 1.7 cc dipper.
The Smallest charge on the slide rule with the set is the .3 cc and drops 2.8 grs of BE.
I have never used charges that light for anything I load for.
I do have the 55 powder measure and have found it very accurate to use.
The Lee Disc measure might work well. One thing about it, it can't change it setting accidently.
Leo

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The most consistent powder measure I have found for very small charges is the Lee DELUXE Perfect Powder measure with the small drum. I check small charges by throwing 10 charges into the scale pan and weighing. I have found the variance over TEN charges to be under 0.1 grains. I have an old Bonanza that use the brass rotors, it can be consistent, but it is not adjustable, I have made new rotors, seldom use it with the Lee auto-disc and powder measure working very well for me. My tiny charges are mostly HP-38 or Tite-Group in 32 ACP.

[Mohawk Daddy]

MDI, you might want to recheck your figures on the Lee dippers. In my set there is no 1.7 cc dipper.
The Smallest charge on the slide rule with the set is the .3 cc and drops 2.8 grs of BE.
I have never used charges that light for anything I load for.
I do have the 55 powder measure and have found it very accurate to use.
The Lee Disc measure might work well. One thing about it, it can't change it setting accidently.
Leo

MDI @#7 had a decimal point jump a place. He's talking about Lee's now smallest dipper the .17cc. My old set doesn't have one of these either, 44magLeo. 1.7cc of Bullseye would be about 16grains.

[gwpercle]

Make a dipper with a cut down 22 short case , actually it's easier to fill the 22 short dipper with thin cardboard or plastic disc's and glue them in place than cutting down the 22 short case .
Use #12 copper wire to form a handle and solder in place.
A dipper made from a 22 short case will dip 2.5 grains of Bullseye ...you gonna have to take up some room in the case . I find it easier to adjust weight by taking up room in the case rather than trying to keep cutting it shorter and shorter . It's easier to remove some filler if you go too far .
Putting brass back on a shortened too much case doesn't work .
A 1.0 grain dipper...wow ,
Good Luck
Gary

[farmbif]

Lyman 55

[deltaenterprizes]

Thanks for the help!
I made a dipper from a 22LR case and a piece of coat hanger wire, not much left to the case!

[Shawlerbrook]

A dipper just shy and trickle to 1.0 gr.

[barrabruce]

I have a few that I made with 22lr cases .
Fill with lead and then drill some out.
If You remove too much a shaving of lead and a bit of heat and your back in business.
I tend to push my case down into the powder then scrape of the top once On a bit of straight wire stuck through my powder bottle near the top.

Seems pretty consistent.

1" or 25mm micrometer shaft might work a treat. They are 1/4" roughly in diameter.

Ohh yes.
Some shiny brass and ss.

Or just a nice ebony handle brass dipper from Harrods and an accompanying silver powder container.
All in a green felt lined Compartmented box with other implements.
Fetch my loading box Jeeves!

[country gent]

What will Baily Boats lil dandy rotor go down to accuratly? It is adjustable and already available

[barrabruce]

Chris has a good suggestion. Easy enough to cut down a .22 shell and try it for repeatablity anyway.

I've got a Harrell's schutzen measure that is supposed to be good for small charges but it depends on the type of powder and can't always be trusted.

Please tell me more.
I was led to believe they are the shiny dangly bits on the dogs rear end and was maybe inspiring to maybe buy one instead of any make believe idiotic thing I could cobble together.

Reality dictates that you will be dealt with as a hair brain unsafe lunatic if you dare whip out something like a 22lr case dipper at the range.

I know I have and do.

[Green Frog]

By their very design, adjustable measures have lower limits to the charges they can throw accurately. As the chamber gets close to its zero point it will be inherently less accurate, regardless of the maker. In the old days Homer Culver made a small number of pistol powder measures with a smaller chamber and a similarly small range of weights... IIRC, Linwood Harrell is doing something similar, but I can’t remember if it is that much smaller.

If I were going to load a lot of cat sneeze loads and needed to throw many, many charges of 1.0 gr Bullseye or something similar, I would make or modify a fixed rotor (Little Dandy, Accumeasure, Pacific Pistol, etc) to throw that exact weight. I’m not a huge fan of dippers, but that might be a temporary fix for me. Small powder chambers should be designed for optimum shape for that charge... diameter as well as depth. That’s why the regular adjustable measures have problems with small charges, their (fixed) diameter requires such a tiny depth that too much error creeps in. That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it! :-)

Froggie

[Wayne Smith]

Froggie, any idea the drill size/depth to use for one of those rotors? I have a couple blank. 1gr BE would be the target. For my 32 S&W and buckshot.

[Green Frog]

Wayne,

I'd start with a bit the ID of an empty 22 RF case. You're probably not going to drill much more than a pilot hole! ;) Let me know how it works out for you, since I really need to do the same thing.

Your Phriendly 'Phibian

[onelight]

The Titan micro charge will has a .12 cc cavity I don't have any bullseye or I would check it and see what that weighs.
https://www.titanreloading.com/titan-reloading-products/titan-micro-charge

[mf79]

I put empty brass on digital scale, tare to zero then add powder and check then add or remove as needed

[ebb]

has anyone tried an RCBS chargemaster?

[barrabruce]

Well I’m not real pleased with my efforts today.
Made a adjustable dipper today on the lines of the ones that look a bit like a socket wrench.
It was scaled down for bulleye loads.
The base was to large and caused powder to settle there.
It was very hard to dip.
A 22lr case is better.
So I hacked away more "minyem" till I thought it be better.
Not much.
Doesn’t lift my skirt as they say.
It is accurate if you fill it up and scrape it off thou.
That means you need two dippers and more concentration.
It will be good for making a load up thou with verniers.
267001
May have to go the drum type or stick to my mungery 22 cases.
Ha

[Markopolo]

my lyman Gen 6 electronic scale has NO issue with 1 grain loads.... push a button, it is so....

[44MAG#1]

I am probably ignored on this forum a lot but here goes. I have an old Lyman rotary drum measure that was in their line up for years and may still be. I have some HS-6 in it and proceeded to set it for 1 grain. I then threw 5 consecutive charges in the pan and weight them. 5.0 grains on the nose. I dumped those and threw 10 consecutive charges and got 10.0 grains on the nose. Now that powder isn't the finest grained nor is it the coarsest grain powder in existence but it shows 1.0 grain increments can be gotten with some powder measuring devices.
I would not hesitate to use it not one iota.

[Alferd Packer]

I posted this elsewhere on another thread, but the small funnel that your Physician looks in your ears eyes and nose and mouth thru with the small lite.That funnel is discarded after each use.
I asked my doctor to let me have mine instead of throwing it away.
It is a plastic or phenol small funnel perfect to empty a small scoop into a small necked case.
The Doc even gave me a couple more although I didn't ask.
I said it was for measuring and adding paint powder to a small airbrush for painting model toys.





But, remember the plastic funnel.
Just the right size.

[JimB..]

The most consistent powder measure I have found for very small charges is the Lee DELUXE Perfect Powder measure with the small drum. I check small charges by throwing 10 charges into the scale pan and weighing. I have found the variance over TEN charges to be under 0.1 grains. I have an old Bonanza that use the brass rotors, it can be consistent, but it is not adjustable, I have made new rotors, seldom use it with the Lee auto-disc and powder measure working very well for me. My tiny charges are mostly HP-38 or Tite-Group in 32 ACP.

If you measure 10 charges into one pan you’re measuring the average and don’t know the sample variance. You could have a 1gr variance from charge to charge, but with a big enough sample they disappear in the average. Could also be that it’s throwing every charge perfectly. No way to know which without measuring each charge.

[GhostHawk]

I'm with gwpercle. I have a couple of dippers made from .22lr cases. One is epoxied to a popsicle stick with a .22mag case on the other end. The other has a strip of tape with a wire stiffener. Both work well.

And I find it easier to reduce volume by adding material inside rather than trimming the case itself.

Foam trays they sell meat on work very well for the first layer or 2. After that I go to pop cases or if I'm getting close old target paper. Once your sure your right on a single drop of fingernail polish top coat insures that nothing sticks to your filler and that it stays put.

I have the small cylinder in my powder measure but I don't try to go below 3 grains of Red Dot.
As long as you find a method that is consistent and do it the same each time. I see very little variance in charges.

Before you put the dipper away write on it how many grains of what powder. Save you time later. I have at least a dozen different dippers not counting the Lee set. I prefer my brass dippers. Most just have a piece of copper wire wrapped in the extractor groove with a loop on the end. Some soldered, some epoxied, some taped. They all work.

[Alferd Packer]

I would trust my dipper, but only to the scale.
Then I would trust the scale.

[beemer]

I have two old Herter's powder measures, the one for the pistol has a 1/4 hole in the drum and the rifle is 3/8.
When I was loading for a 32 auto with 100 grn. boolits I found the pistol measure would drop consistent 1 grn. charges with Bullseye. I know these are long out of production but the small drum holes make small charges easier, looks like some of the manufacturers would take notice.

[John Boy]

The Lyman #5 powder charger will consistently drop small powder charges.
For 22RF reloads, every crank on the charger will drop 4.5gr of Swiss Null-B

[ElPistolero]

I think for quantities that small I'd use the old dipper method. Just trim a case to where it holds the proper amount of powder, then use it as a scoop. Always scoop the powder the same way, never tap down. You can solder the case to a piece of wire to use as a handle.

Chris

I agree with Chris. I have a couple of VERY small load projects and the old Lee yellow plastic scoopers do a fine job. If you have to get REALLY tiny, the "case-on--wire" reliably uses the nature of the beast as its own measure.

[kywoodwrkr]

I made an Accumeasure adjustable fixture to adjust a drum I made.
Uses a 17/64" brass plug with spring under it.
I calculate the VMD of a powder to use, like B-Eye.
Using an EXCEL spreadsheet I determine depth of above plug for a given charge.
B-eye is .1167gr minimum to to under 3.2gr.
The minimum is calculated using the VMD and volume of the space between the flat top of plug and round adjuster hole.
My spreadsheet, given a weight, within range, then details a value for the indexing dial in thousandths.
That dial is zeroed on side of inserted drum if needed (also a check of dial setting).
Drum is placed in adjuster, set screw loosened allowing plug to rest on circumference of hole in fixture.
Calculate dial setting is dialed in, set screw set and drum removed for scale verification.

283985

283986

[barrabruce]

Nice.
I would have just used a vernier for depth measurement.

[salpal48]

There are good suggestion on the above posts. if you must weigh and be accurate , you will need a Chemical Balance or Torsion Balance scale and a set of Gram weight that will weigh in 1 gram Fractions. Meaning 10th of a gram, 100th of a gram, and so on.
If your not aware of what a Chemical or Torsion is , there are plenty on Ebay to view .

[KenT7021]

I use the Lyman 55 for very small charges.I load the .25 ACP and the .32 ACP.The drop weight doesn't vary.I use a balance beam scale to set the measure.

[Old Caster]

For my 32 ACP loads for my Pardini target gun I use a Dillon with a Unitek measure. I throw 1.12 grains of TiteWad and 1.5 of Tite Group and have no problems. I also write on a sheet of paper where these loads are on the micrometer scale and it is very easy to get back to the same spot.

[GONRA]

GONRA has loaded lottsa .25 ACP using 1.3 grains and 1.5 grains WW 321 Powder.
Start out with RCBS Chargemaster.
Check / touchup on beam balance using Powder Dribbler.

Make yer own funnel arrangement to dump into the tiny .25 ACP case.
(For me that was the greatest problem. Took some time to get stuff together.
Tiny "ring stands" and funnels are needed here!)

Use a "Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension Bullet Seater Die 25 ACP"
to properly seat tiny 35 and 50 grain bullets.

Any time you find a good deal on new .25 ACP Brass , JUMP ON IT!
Finding yer fired cases in the usual "range brass" pyle is almost impossible.....

Have Phun!