310 Tools on Fleabay Have Gone NUTZ!!

[Green Frog]

A friend suggested I look at a listing on everybody’s “favorite” auction site for a particular 310 tool he had seen listed. While I was there I went through the three pages of listings, mostly from about 2-3 dealers who seem to have taken several sets and listed the handles and each die separately at mildly to wildly exorbitant prices, then turned around and listed the EMPTY BOXES at prices that would make a crooked politician blush. I can’t help but wonder whether they make very many sales of these items or just keep waiting for one desperate sucker to come along and “make their day.” I got into using 310 tools over 40 years ago, in part because it was economical. NO MORE! As with many hobbies, it seems that rampant speculation has ruined it. [smilie=b:

Oh well, I’m glad I’ve already got what I need for my reloading, but I sure feel sorry for those who will never have the same opportunity I did. :sad: Rant over.

Green Frog

[Bent Ramrod]

Congratulate yourself, GF, on being able to spot value where those around you only see junk. Better test of basic smarts than being “woke” any day of the week.

Gun shows now have their semi-permanent “stores” where the tableholder runs through the place before it opens to the public, buying everything loose and cheap that he can, and putting it on his table at a healthy markup for the suckers.

The Entrepreneurial Spirit can’t be suppressed. I wonder if “investment grade” 310 sets will be next, with a “letter” from a handwriting expert to certify that Elihu Lyman himself wrote the caliber on the end of the box.

Can’t muster a lot of sympathy for the latecomers, though. As the old song goes, “I Got Mine.”

[dsh1106]

Yes Sir Mr Frog,

I've kept track of four or five vendors about a year now, they all seem to have adapted the same philosophy, separate everything you can and sell each piece.
The prices were on the up tick at the beginning of this year at about 20% increase, but between the pandemic and word of mouth that Lyman "stop producing" the product, the prices are now stupid.

I keep watching for deals that I can share with my friends, but it appears those are few and far between opportunities nowadays.

Scott

[Green Frog]

I’m thinking high could sell off some of my high end, desirable 310 stuff and take up golf. It’s probably more politically correct to defend home and hearth with a nine iron than a wicked old gun anyway, right?

Then again maybe I should just get one of those signs that say, “Due to the increased cost of reloading, the homeowner will no longer give warning shots.” I’ll probably get arrested for that anti-PC attitude, but at least I’ll be assured of “3 hots and a cot.” [smilie=l:

Froggie

[William Yanda]

Thanks for pointing this out. I have a 22 caliber set which didn't sell a while back. I should move it on to some prepper.

[bedbugbilly]

Green Frog - I think you have assessed it all very well. I take a look once in a while and it blows my mind what they want for individual dies that are not that "special". I often wonder if it is because Lyman announced they are no longer going to make the 310 sets and because of that, these sellers think that they now have something that is 'highly collectible". I have dabbled in the 310 sets for al long time. I have been able to accumulate die sets and tongs for the calibers I want to load with them at times as I do enjoy using them. But, the fun of finding a nice set, at least for me, is now gone. If you watch the listings on that site - it seems to me that very few ever "move".

A good example - I (like a lot of folks) got hooked on the 223 Remington cartridge thanks to a fellow I shoot with so I bought a bolt rifle and got set up to reload. I don't like using the FL sizing die with the primer punch/expander ball so I pull the stem (Lee dies) - deprime all my brass with a universal depriving die (Lee) and use a separate neck expanding die. I have some of my 310 sets with me here in AZ - the others back in Michigan. I have a 310 pushing to 7/8 - 14 so I figured I would take a look on the favorite site you speak of and see if I could find a 310 expander body with a .222 our .223 expanding stem. Well golly gee . . . when I looked, I saw that there sere two of them listed - at about a dollar less than what Ii could buy a new Lyman M die for shipped - I opted for the Lyman M die as I refused to pay the price for the 310 die.

I suppose that it's like any other "hobby". If you are new to it and in a lot of cases, young, you look and those are the prices you see so you assume that they are worth that . . . kind of human nature. But if you've been at it for a while, you kind of know what the value of them should be dictated by experience and common sense. And I'm not being critical of anyone when I say that.

I have "collected" for many years - my wife calls it something else. LOL At one time, I put together a collection of milsurp rifles - I didn't reload or shoot them but I enjoyed collecting them. I had a nice assortment of Jax Arisaka and SMLE 303 Infields as well as others. I remember going to a monthly gun show that I always attended and walking in to see a fellow with three tables piled with a variety of SMLE rifles - most in cosmolene and boxes. At the time, I was looking for one with a World War I date and he helped me go through them. We located one with a 1914 date - it looked pretty nice but like all of them showed some good honest wear. At that time,I paid him $14.95 for that rifle. Today? I have o idea of what it would cost but with inflation, a new generation of folks collecting and shooting, what we considered used military surplus rifles the new generation now considers highly collectible military antiques. It happens and I guess a person can enjoy collecting the 310 tools while it's feasible and affordable to do so but at some point, their prices are going to increase. But . . I still look once in a while on that site and i end up just shaking my head at times. Something is only as worth what a willing buyer is willing to pay at the the time of purchase and I just question how many of those dies, die sets and tongs "move" and how many keep getting resisted and resisted in hopes that someone will come along that has more money than sense?

[John Boy]

Green Frog - you think 310 prices are off the wall, a fella on eBay bought a Paul Jones Creedmoor mold for $520 big ones. Paul' invoice for mine was $175

[beagle]

A few sellers on there with "no ethics". Just out to soak the unwary with super high prices and a fancy write up with "rare" moulds you could buy from Lyman.

Like the sellers at gun shows. "That's the best one I've ever seen". Told him he must not have seen very many. The man got mad at me as I walked away.

I'd never make a business man. No way I could "gull" anyone./beagle

[Green Frog]

Hey bedbugbilly, did you ever get 310 dies for that SMLE? Contact me via PM if you want to have me find you a set... They're not big sellers. :roll:

Froggie

[Green Frog]

Mr beagle, long time no hear from. I was just getting ready to send you an e-mail to make sure you were still doing OK. How's the weather out your way?

Your Phriendly 'Phibian

[Landy88]

I'd never make a business man. No way I could "gull" anyone./beagle

Actually, you might make a very successful and enduring businessman. The con artists and grifters can appear to do well, but are most often just riding the wave between cons, frauds, and/or bankruptcies.

Real businessman strive for all to walk away contentedly and with added value from the exchange in their hands. How do you feel about your favorite reloading tool company? They're real businessmen!

[Walks]

I understand this greed is really overtaking fleabay.
When was the last time you saw an H&G mold for sale WITH handles attached.
Check the sellers other listings, chances are you'll find the handles listed separately.

Just today I was looking at some Pipes. I've been a Pipe Smoker for 50yrs, off and on.
Listed under "Estate". A euphemism for old dirty and used.
There are a couple of Sellers that take such pipes and clean, restore and sanitize them.
Other people just list old dirty junk at prices over 10x what these drug store pipes sold for.
No concept of ...???? Heck I don't know what.

[dsh1106]

Looks like these prices are making it here to the S&S area as well...

[44magLeo]

The last half way deal I found on Ebay was a steel set of handles marked 257. They will work fine to go with any of my .473 size cases. $50 shipped.
When I see something I think I want I set my max bid at what it's worth to me then ignore it till they tell me I won or lost.
Quite often the thing I bid $20 on goes for more like $80.
It's the people that think of these as collector items with no sense of their true worth that drive the prices up.
Those of us that use them as they were made to be used understand their true worth. This often prevents us from getting the things we need.
To often these things set on some collectors shelf.
It saddens the heart.
Leo

[Bent Ramrod]

The real driver, leave us face it, is cheap, giveaway money; more abundant all the time.

On the other hand, there is only a finite number of discontinued items, whether they be acreage, Van Gogh paintings or Lyman 310 sets. It only stand to reason that it will take more inflated shin-plasters to buy the same stuff as relatively few of them could buy 20 or 40 years ago.

Wow. When I was a kid, we used to say “Fahhrty yurrs ago” in cracked, reedy voices like Gabby Hayes. Never seemed like that much time could pass. Guess we learned. But I still walk around in a constant state of sticker-shock when looking at “collectibles”.

[curdog007]

I guess I've been lucky the last few months on ebay. Got a set of 32-20 dies for my 310, another set of 32-20 dies for my Tru-line (brand new in the boxes) and a NIB 32 Special set to load 32 Rem with.

I paid about half the price of what a new set of Lee dies would cost. This is my benchmark for used dies, they aren't worth more (to me) than what a new set of Lee dies costs. Lee dies have always given me as good a service and loaded as accurate ammunition as anyone's.

I'm just setting up reloading a couple of my vintage rifles with vintage tools, because that's what I want to do.

Most of the fixed price dies on ebay never sell. Just because someone wants a certain amount for something, doesn't make it worth it. I got my dies with bids.

[Green Frog]

Curdog007, the only problem you are likely to run into is the need to FL resize your cases. Unless your TL Jr set came with the FL die (which must use lubed cases in a press, not the tong tool) you might want to look for one of the push in dies Lyman made back then. They aren’t all that abundant, but I’ve found a couple over the years.

Froggie

[curdog007]

I just got one of those off ebay, too.
I'm making up an "antique" reloading set like a man would have carried in a saddlebag for his Winchester carbine.
I bought a nice Modern Bond tool with a 32-20 die in it, just need to make the rest of the stuff.
I am not new to making this stuff.
Now figuring out how to post pictures of it whenever I get it done - now that's a different story altogether!

[armstrong]

prices are crazy on fleabay, but there isn't any arm twistin' when the guys bid crazy money...

[Green Frog]

prices are crazy on fleabay, but there isn't any arm twistin' when the guys bid crazy money...
I’m just getting tired of seeing the same stuff posted over and over again at crazy prices by these dreamers as I do my regular search for any unusual calibers etc. The guys trying to sell a “rare” 30-06 neck sizing and decapping die for $29.95 plus shipping should get the message after 6 months that it’s priced too high, but I have to wade through dozens such ads every time I do a search. Rant over.

Froggie

[curdog007]

Amen to that, Froggie. I find it quite annoying too. Don't they ever look at the ones sold by bid?
Some of these idiots must have gold plated bowel movements......

[44magLeo]

On the "rare" I think if they cruised the ads a bit they would find out the items they have are not so rare.
30-06 seems to be on there a lot, by the piece or set.
Leo

[Ozark mike]

Ebay is retarded heck look for a lee loader for a 12ga its just sad ill build my own or take up a diffrent hobby before ill pay those prices

[armstrong]

I'm glad I bought most of my Lee Loaders years ago when they were reasonable...no way I would pay todays inflated prices...

[Green Frog]

We just watched one of the most egregious offenders buy a nice boxed set for $51, then immediately resist the marked steel handles for $159. I expect to see each die for $29.95, then the empty box for a similar amount. So all and all this guy is expecting to realize over $300 for his $51 investment. I hope he sits on them for a loooong time. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest him and his household!

Froggie

[Ozark mike]

Anyone who buys at that price doesent have a lick of commonsince

[dsh1106]

We just watched one of the most egregious offenders buy a nice boxed set for $51, then immediately resist the marked steel handles for $159. I expect to see each die for $29.95, then the empty box for a similar amount. So all and all this guy is expecting to realize over $300 for his $51 investment. I hope he sits on them for a loooong time. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest him and his household!

Froggie

May I ask how you really feel Mr Froggie?

[Green Frog]

[smilie=b::evil::evil:

You may assume I am not amused!

[Eddie Southgate]

Got to watch for the deals . I just won an auction for a nice steel .218 Bee set for $75.00 . That's a lot more than the original price but if Lyman were still making the same set it's a lot less than they would want for them now . There are still a few on there who price their stuff fairly .

Anybody know the exact specs on the lock ring set screws ? Got a set for 30-30 the other day and all the screws are missing , something not mentioned in the auction but the price was still right .

[Eddie Southgate]

I’m thinking high could sell off some of my high end, desirable 310 stuff and take up golf. It’s probably more politically correct to defend home and hearth with a nine iron than a wicked old gun anyway, right?

Then again maybe I should just get one of those signs that say, “Due to the increased cost of reloading, the homeowner will no longer give warning shots.” I’ll probably get arrested for that anti-PC attitude, but at least I’ll be assured of “3 hots and a cot.” [smilie=l:

Froggie

I'll believe that when I see it . I been waiting since about this time last year for you to list some of those spare sets you claim you are gonna let go of . Seems to me you claimed you would be posting some by last Christmas .

What's a warning shot ? Anything below the waist ?

I'm looking for a unmarked box to house my .32 Win Spl set if you run up on one you don't need . My 1912 94 .32 Spl is gonna be my looter shooter and I want to be able to load on the fly . Got the Handles off the bay for around $25 and the die set was just a few dollars more . Also need a .323 expander for cast , I think mine is .319.

[Landy88]

Both the pandemic and both big parties' partizan panic have put a lot of new people without much general and no historical knowledge into both the gun and reloading markets. Both their lack of knowledge and panic may have convinced some scruple challenged sellers that this is the time to fleece the sheep. This price phenomena seems to be (especially portable) reloading, reloading component, ammo, firearm market wide.

[Eddie Southgate]

Both the pandemic and both big parties' partizan panic have put a lot of new people without much general and no historical knowledge into both the gun and reloading markets. Both their lack of knowledge and panic may have convinced some scruple challenged sellers that this is the time to fleece the sheep. This price phenomena seems to be (especially portable) reloading, reloading component, ammo, firearm market wide.

This is nothing new . It predates the so called pandemic , looters , BLM, Antifa and boogaloo Boys . Prices on this stuff have been going up for a good while . 15 years ago I started replacing all the 310 and Tru Line Jr stuff that I had stolen from my pap's shop . Tru line Jr presses were about $25 and shipping and I bought 15 sets of TL dies in the box still wrapped for $20 per set . I bought 310 steel sets in 6.5x 57, 30-40 K, 45-70 , .223 , 32-20 , 30-30,.38 spl , .44 spl , .45 colt , .257 roberts , 7mm Mauser , 8mm Mauser and a few others I can't think of right now and never paid more than $75 for any of those sets , most were around $65 . Nobody much was collecting them then and they sold pretty much to people who for whatever reason just liked to use them for what they were intended for . The first big spike in price I noticed was when I started reading about Cowboy Action Shooting . Lot of those guys wanted to load the old way so demand went up for certain calibers and they have never gone anywhere but up since . Oddball stuff is still cheap . 7mm Mag , .264 Win Mag and that kind of stuff can be found on Ebay right now for a song cause they are low demand items . Guys that shoot those guns mostly don't care about the old school loading tools . Bottom line is prices are high because some people will pay anything to get what they want regardless of what it is really worth .

[Ozark mike]

As much as i like the 310s a lee hand press can do the same for less money. Ill stick to using my head instead of my wallet:groner:

[Eddie Southgate]

Mike ,
I do both , even have a few of the old Lee Loaders just for yuks .

[TNsailorman]

I have to agree. 310 tools are way over priced for what they do. Lee is getting there also. Most of us own at least a single stage press and if the 310's and Lee Classic loaders cost more than a decent set of 7/8x14 dies, then they loose their appeal for me. The only real reasons for them are in a "stuff hit the fan--read national calamity" or as in the old days, someone who did not have the money to buy a press and dies both(me). The 310 have always had a old time sort of appeal for me but that is about all. I always considered the Lee style better and more useable. my take anyway, james

[Eddie Southgate]

James,
The Lee and 310's let me change the seating depth at the range when I am working up a new load for a rifle I am not familiar with . I can't do that at the public range with a bench mounted press . I use them a little less for that now since moving out of town allows me to shoot at home where I have quick access to all my loading options .

When I was young and single I would roam the woods living off just what I could shoot . I would hunt all day , reload in the evening , smoke a good cigar and sip a nice whiskey and start all over the next day . I lived out of a small pack containing a 310 set , 1 pound of powder , 200 primers , and 200 bullets plus coffee pot and a few other cooking devices . I slept in a light weight jungle type hammock that weighed less than a sleeping bag and kept me off the ground and out of reach of the creepy crawlies . That is luxury living made possible by the portable loading tools . But, they were relatively cheap then because of limited interest in them .

If Lyman would make steel sets available in the $100-$125 range I would own a set for everything I own . That will never happen.

[TNsailorman]

I understand Eddie. I never load at the range. I load 10 to 15 for each caliber with the same bullet and same powder with different charge weights and then go to the range. I started shooting with a .22lr(Remington) in 1946. I started hunting in 1949 (or so) when I was about 7 and dad had bought me a little Savage 410 to squirrel and rabbit hunt. A local hardware store sold shotgun shells and would allow me to buy shells without having to buy a whole box(which I could not afford). I would usually buy 6 or 8 at a time. I hunted all the way thru high school that way. My high school principal would even allow me to bring my old Iver Johnson single barrel 12 to school(I had inherited my uncles shotgun) so I could get an early start on hunting after school. Things were different back then. I own a set of Lee loaders in every caliber that I shoot(in the old cardboard boxes). All but one caliber(.41 magnum) with the old metal powder measure. I have sold all the old Lee shotgun loaders that I had but kept the rifle and pistol, which I still use sometimes. The only 310 set I ever lusted after was for the 30-30 Marlin I own. I think I was born a 100 years too late. I have always shot blsack powder a lot since the mid to late 60's. I do understand the people who love and use the 310 and Lee's, I just am not willing to pay the prices that is asked for them these days. Every man spends his money and buys the equipment he wants and I have no problem with that nor will I throw shade at them. I am just not willing to do so myself. I was raised being frugal and I still follow that path(read that cheap). james

[Green Frog]

Well, I started this thread so I guess it’s my prerogative to let it drift. If I didn’t already have the commitment I made about 40 or so years ago, I wouldn’t even start with 310 tools today. Even though I already have the ones I need for my calibers, I don’t think I would recommend to anyone that they start now, it’s just too late, that boat has sailed. Although I only flirted with the Lee Loader family, I like them (especially with the good primer tool) and if they were still readily available and reasonably priced, I could and probably would resort to using them.

So where are we today? If I were starting from scratch an had similar needs in reloading capabilities, I would either go cheap with the Lee, or first class with the Buchanan, find a nice carrier for it along with a couple of sets of dies and a supply of components to be good to go. It would by no means be as compact and convenient as the little Lee boxed set or even the somewhat larger 310 set, but would still be manageable in any range or camping scenario I would be likely to embark on. I still like the idea of everything in a cigar box, but the cost of doing this would put it out of reach unless I were making a serious commitment to compactness. The preceding is JMHO, and of course YMMV.

Froggie

[Ozark mike]

When you think about adding a hammer to the lee loaders or the size of the handpresses they will never be what a 310 set is in packability. Maybe someone should buy the patent from lyman if it is still active maybe modify it to take 7/8 dies (this could be a mistake ) and start selling em again id buy a set as long as its not made in china

[Pressman]

The patent is long expired, the first tools date to about 1886. Lyman bought the Ideal Reloading Tool Co. in 1926, from Phineas P. Talcott who bought it from Marlin Arms Co in 1916, who bought it from John Barlow in 1910.

I have one made especially for 7/8-14 dies. It works, sort of. c
Case extraction from the die is a problem. It won't pull out far enough before the extractor hook slips off necessitating unscrewing the die and pulling and unscrewing the die and... several times.

267778267779267780

[Ozark mike]

I think we ought to pool some knowledge here on this design to make it reliable so ya can market it. Im suprised lyman didnt keep that patent renewed

[square butte]

I think we ought to pool some knowledge here on this design to make it reliable so ya can market it. Im suprised lyman didnt keep that patent renewed
I'm with ya there - I suspect it might take quite a bit of cash and effort to get it rolling

[dsh1106]

The patent is long expired, the first tools date to about 1886. Lyman bought the Ideal Reloading Tool Co. in 1926, from Phineas P. Talcott who bought it from Marlin Arms Co in 1916, who bought it from John Barlow in 1910.

I have one made especially for 7/8-14 dies. It works, sort of. c
Case extraction from the die is a problem. It won't pull out far enough before the extractor hook slips off necessitating unscrewing the die and pulling and unscrewing the die and... several times.

267778267779267780

I was going to say, I believe that the full size die tong tool was tired, but it didn't work well enough to catch on.

[nitro-express]

I saw a Lyman sizer die, the hammer in punch out type listed for $75. I'm sitting on about 20 or so and had a tough time getting $5 a few years back. Now I'm the winner, I'll undercut him and only charge $65.

BTW, I've used them, they are not very good, horribly undersized IMHO.

I started collecting them when I'd see them at gunshows listed for about $20. Sometimes get 2 sets for that. The odd one I paid more. Some sets were new, never used, some sets didn't have the correct dies in them. Most venders didn't know what they were.

My nicest find was a #10 handle in 30 US. The bullet sizer is a bit wonky, my idea is to hone it out a bit and use it for 303 Br.

Nitro

[Green Frog]

nitro-express, I don't think the common calibers of push through dies are bringing that kind of money, just the harder to find ones. For instance, you'd have a hard time giving a 30-06 away for free! BUT, I recently saw and bid on the first 32 S&W Long die I'd ever seen. I can't remember what it went for, but it was a bunch! The only ones I've made a serious effort to track down have been either for my handgun rounds I like to shoot or the old hyphenated calibers (32-40, 45-70) I use for single shots. The others hold little or no interest for me, but of course YMMV.

Froggie

[Krag 1901]

Haw! I saw this thread and remembered a set of 310 tools that I bought in 1966 and never used. After seeing the prices on e-bay I hot footed out and looked into a box I haven't looked in for 10 years, not only did I find the 310 tool and .45 APC and .30-06 dies for it NEW in Box but I found a bunch of dies I'll never need!

Now I have trading material for my Lyman mold handles I need! Thanks to you guys!

[Petander]

https://i.postimg.cc/hGVT7Cg7/IMG-20210312-151115-507.jpg

[Green Frog]

:shock::shock::shock:

I saw one bottom feeder on fleabay buy a pretty nice post War steel handle set in 32 S&W Long for just a little over my (fairly reasonable) bid, then immediately take it apart and put the handles up for more than he paid for the whole thing, each die individually for about a third of what he paid for the whole thing, and the empty box for about $30... all in all, he sold it in pieces for about three times what he paid for it within a week or ten days of buying it. Plus a nice, complete set has been broken up. [smilie=b:

Froggie

[dsh1106]

:shock::shock::shock:

I saw one bottom feeder on fleabay buy a pretty nice post War steel handle set in 32 S&W Long for just a little over my (fairly reasonable) bid, then immediately take it apart and put the handles up for more than he paid for the whole thing, each die individually for about a third of what he paid for the whole thing, and the empty box for about $30... all in all, he sold it in pieces for about three times what he paid for it within a week or ten days of buying it. Plus a nice, complete set has been broken up. [smilie=b:

Froggie

Froggie
Check your email

[sharps4590]

I have become my Father. The prices of 310 tools and dies, along with many, many other items, causes me to often say, "you want HOW MUCH for that!!!" I'm also like Dad in that I ain't gonna pay it.

[gbrown]

I have my die sets from some years back. Pretty cheap, compared to today's prices. Got a couple of oddball pieces off Ebay this last year. Like others, saw some vendors breaking down sets and selling separately, pushing up the price. They are merely maximizing profit. Okay, it's capitalism, all I will say.

[Green Frog]

When I first joined Ohio Gun Collectors’ Association nearly 20 years ago, new and like new die sets for the 310 and TruLine Jr were commonly available for from five to fifteen dollars. I remember about ten years ago getting a 9mm Luger die set (310 Tool, black and grey striped Leisure Group box) and a 32 S&W Long set for the TL Jr in the old flat box with individual boxes for each die. Even through the amphibian haze of time I’m sure I paid ten bucks or less for each of those sets...Brand New In The Box! Try to find either one for five to ten times that today (and no, mine are being used and aren’t for sale!) :coffeecom

Froggie

[PaperPuncher]

It's all the fault of those Lionel Train guys. They started it.

[Green Frog]

It's all the fault of those Lionel Train guys. They started it.

I’d give all my Lionel trains and accessories for a couple of guns and some reloading supplies! :coffee:

Froggie