******!

[Burnt Fingers]

About a year ago my primary care doctor at the VA told me they were going to start weaning up chronic pain patients off the opioid medications we take. I told her they were going to kill people if they went through with the plan.

She was so against this that she gave up primary care.

Well, I was just told that I have three months to taper off the medications that have given me a reasonable quality of life for the past eight years. They are cutting my prescription by 1/3 this month. Instead of 45 mg twice a day I have to go down to 30 mg twice a day, next month it will be 15 mg twice a day, then a month of 15 mg once per day. After that there will be a month of taper dosage and that's it.

I tried to taper off last winter. In my case it just doesn't work. It destroys my quality of life. The solution, according to the doctors is to take more of certain medications that are much harder on my liver and kidneys and cause me to sleep up to 18 hours a day. That's not living, that's waiting for death.

This parallels the gun control debate. Since there are those who can't behave let's punish those who can. Addicts will continue to use street drugs and those of us who need these medications to have a somewhat normal life are going to be punished.

Needless to say this has me pissed off.

[Ozark mike]

My mom has a lot of problems with pain between rheumatism blood clots and broken back they just cut her off about 2 months ago. She can't even see a doctor. We may have to take serious action and start putting knots on someone's head so people can have a life in this country

[metricmonkeywrench]

Thank you Obamacare... the gift that just keeps giving

Sorry to hear of you potential future. is there a secondary healthcare you can use as a primary and use the VA as a secondary (which seems to be the way they are pushing us vets)

[cwlongshot]

Sorry to read.

Its something I have lived with now since '91 myself. I wont take the opioids more then initially. I usually bring 2/3 PILLS home after a surgery cause well I dont
Like them, They dont work well and I truly HATE the "experience" I cannot comprehend why it would be appealing to folks.

It does severely effect the quality of life. i push thru dealing as best I can. Most dont understand. My wife didnt. She didnt think I was exaggerating or complaining. (Cause I never do, BUT Ill bow out of many things not giving explanation. Not wanting to cast any neg on others enjoyment.)
Making matters worse 9/1993 I was in a bad auto accident... Ironically driving to Hospital to PU my wife. We where visiting her prenta and found my FiL had had a stroke and we called ambulance. She went to hosp with him. I would follow and pick her up.

Well I made it... on a stretcher in the ambulance!! Cop friends found me in the hall awaiting DR (busy day) I asked her to find my wife. She did and we spent a couple
More hours before I was released. NO XRAY!! I was told hyper extended my spine. Basically whip
Lash in my mid Thoracic.... After three months of misery, not able to lye down. Sleeping standing or few hrs in a recliner. I was given a MRI. Drove myself. (Been working right along. I did take a week off) Nurse all but hollered at me to "LAY STILL". I explained BEFORE i was in pin and lying down was very difficult.

I tell All this to lay a bit of ground work.

She came out and was a white sheet. "YOUR SPINE IS CRACKED... and the last four ribs are not attached to your spine!!"

Yup, we can deal with allot... Quality of life suffers.... For years my montra was pain is fear leaving the body. Many I cant possibly fear anything anymore. ;)

Prayers my Brother.

CW

[BamaNapper]

Prayers for you. Most of us can't imagine what you go through physically or mentally. Although something tells me you will find an avenue to get on with your life and not let the pain stop you.

[MaryB]

My doc cut my dose back bot no taper off. To many docs are misreading the FDA guidelines and think they have to stop them when hey are supposed to try to drop doses to a certain level and never stop them! My doc wasn't aware of it until I showed her the follow up bulletin the FDA put out!

[JimB..]

Idiots, folks using illegally will just turn to another source that is harder to regulate. That’ll drive up the price of drugs on the street which will drive increased supply, which will drive increasing enforcement costs for what are ineffective interdiction efforts. Basically the law abiding folks get no meds, the illegal users change sources, the dealers make more money and the taxpayers fund it all. Good job!

[tankgunner59]

If these VA folks had any common sense they would find a alternative and test extensively before considering any reduction/cessation. Prayers for you brother that God will provide a new path for you to follow to manage your pain.

[dangitgriff]

I hate to read stories like this about how Socialism never works. It always destroys people’s lives.
Our government is insolvent and these types of failures will only increase in number as this decade wears on.
R/Griff

[farmbif]

been dealing with this for decades with 4 crushed vertebrae, busted disks, nerve damage and just about every medical procedure known to man over the past 4+ decades your fortunate they've allowed you 90mg/day for so long. I live my life now in about 30 minute segments, you have to learn to do what you can when you can.
and to metricmonkeywrench-- all this has nothing to do with Obamacare nothing at all-only thing remotely related is that policy put in place two years ago took away medicare prescription coverage for commoners like myself, my little bottle of 60 percocets a month now costs me $110 instead of the $5.00 it used to be.
all this has to do with a whole lot of people abusing medications and doctors prescribing pain meds to people who don't really need it and so with all the abuse the powers that be, they take it out on everyone. the people that are dying from overdoses for the past 5 years or so are on heroin or something they got illegally because other than VA patents everyone else got cut back 4 to 5 years ago.

[Burnt Fingers]

Thank you Obamacare... the gift that just keeps giving

Sorry to hear of you potential future. is there a secondary healthcare you can use as a primary and use the VA as a secondary (which seems to be the way they are pushing us vets)

Nope. Private docs will only prescribe opiates for cancer pain. It's all about that FDA advisory that most doctors have never read. They've just been told by the bean counters to not prescribe opiates.

[dtknowles]

Nope. Private docs will only prescribe opiates for cancer pain. It's all about that FDA advisory that most doctors have never read. They've just been told by the bean counters to not prescribe opiates.

It is not quite that bad. I had a kidney stone blocking my Ureter just a few months ago. The doctor prescribe me 5 mg Norco's, 4 per day. I know that is not much and it did not do much but I would not have wanted to be without them. Of course the Doc knew I would only need them until they could fix the problem.

Tim

[farmbif]

that another rule they put in place, if you need anything stronger than aspirin for a chronic condition you have to be referred to and accepted by a pain management specialist. if your in a state where medical weed is legal they tell you its one or the other, because of federal law, you have to pee in a cup every month or two if you get accepted by one of these pain specialists. Ive been through all of it and don't wish any of it on my worst enemy. at one point thought about moving to another country.
medical care and insurance and the dang medical system in the USA is---is I guess pathetic. Even with copays the out of pocket costs add up real quick and they keep sending you to all their specialist friends cuz they need new vacation homes too.

[nvbirdman]

And above all, be sure to limit the amount of morphine a terminal cancer patient may receive because he or she might become addicted.

[Wayne Smith]

Except that it is now known that long term use of opiates actually increases pain - they are good for and used for breakthrough pain and this is an appropriate use. Chronic pain requires other approaches that are not being used - including lifestyle changes and learning different mental focuses to work around pain. Debilitating pain is the problem - and there really is no good approach to debilitating pain.

[dtknowles]

that another rule they put in place, if you need anything stronger than aspirin for a chronic condition you have to be referred to and accepted by a pain management specialist. if your in a state where medical weed is legal they tell you its one or the other, because of federal law, you have to pee in a cup every month or two if you get accepted by one of these pain specialists. Ive been through all of it and don't wish any of it on my worst enemy. at one point thought about moving to another country.
medical care and insurance and the dang medical system in the USA is---is I guess pathetic. Even with copays the out of pocket costs add up real quick and they keep sending you to all their specialist friends cuz they need new vacation homes too.

This is not true. My primary care doctor prescribed the Norco's when I went to him even before I got the CAT Scan that showed my kidney stone and the Urologist refilled them when I went to his office. I never went to a pain management specialist. You need to go to the pain management specialist if you have chronic pain as opposed to acute pain. They don't worry so much if you are only going to need pain meds for a few weeks or a month or so. If you are going to be in pain for the rest of your life they want you to consider alternative treatments for your pain. If you are going to be taking opioids or opiates for the rest of your life you will become addicted, you will develop a tolerance for the drugs and will need higher and higher dosages to get relief.

Tim

[Battis]

My doc sent me to a pain clinic because he didn't want to prescribe Percocet anymore (radiation nerve damage, 4 back surgeries). I told the doc at the pain clinic that I only wanted a few a week, as needed. He said OK, but he said they'd test my blood once a month. I said, what if I didn't need any the day of the blood test. He said if it didn't show in my blood, they'd assume I was selling it. I declined. I weaned myself completely from the Percocet after 16 yrs. One thing I don't miss is the panic at the thought of not being able to get more Percocet.
Since then, I've tried other treatments - melatonin worked for awhile, then it turned on me. CBD pills - not bad, but a limited, mild relief. Pot - not bad once in a while (it's legal in my state, but it's $18 for a joint, $450 for an ounce). Naproxen, Ibuprofen, etc will ruin your stomach. I sometimes use Lorazepam for sleep, but that's habit forming and has next day side effects that suck.
Exercise is good, but it hurts. It's important to keep the weight down, and to keep moving. I'm waiting for #5 back surgery to be scheduled later this year. That virus messed up everything.
My dog has Lyme disease and he's been in alot of pain (he's getting better). I asked him if he wanted to recreate the end of "Thelma & Louise" - I told him I'd let him drive. He didn't answer.

[Battis]

As far as opiate use actually increasing pain - that might be true to a point, and it's a small point. I developed small, annoying pains in my neck as the Percocet wore off, which, according to my DR, meant that I was addicted to it. But those small pains were nothing compared to the pain that the Percocet took care of. I never needed more and more of the drug - I was satisfied with the level of pain relief that I got from the pills I took. I can honestly say that during all those years that I was taking Percocet, I felt better, and got more accomplished. Now, I lose a day of recovery after mowing the lawn, or doing home and car repairs, etc.
The "experts" have to shut their educated mouths and help people that suffer from chronic pain with that which works - opiates. If and when the "experts" suffer from that level of pain, mindsets will change. Is there opiate abuse in society? Yep, right along with alcohol and pot. So what?

[MrWolf]

This is not true. My primary care doctor prescribed the Norco's when I went to him even before I got the CAT Scan that showed my kidney stone and the Urologist refilled them when I went to his office. I never went to a pain management specialist. You need to go to the pain management specialist if you have chronic pain as opposed to acute pain. They don't worry so much if you are only going to need pain meds for a few weeks or a month or so. If you are going to be in pain for the rest of your life they want you to consider alternative treatments for your pain. If you are going to be taking opioids or opiates for the rest of your life you will become addicted, you will develop a tolerance for the drugs and will need higher and higher dosages to get relief.

Tim

Tim not true for all states. I found that out when I moved out here from Jersey. I am required to drive 45 minutes each way to see a pain specialist in VA each month. After 30-45 minutes of sitting the pain starts. Ironic that I have to be in more pain to get my monthly prescription. For some of us there are no alternatives. I had to beg a doc to operate on a single disc to help my legs. They wouldn't touch the other dozen or so they are so bad.

[frkelly74]

Well I learned something yesterday. My dad fell about a week ago and broke his hip, The surgery to fix it happened but he reacted poorly to the anesthetic and other drugs they gave him and had a heart attack. So he was in bad pain, thrashing around and out of control, Making it worse but not rational enough to be persuaded to lie still. The people at the hospital seems to not know how to deal with pain and if they think you will live they give you Tylenol or norcal. My opinion is that they are so afraid of creating addicts that they will let you suffer. He got worse and his life expectancy dropped from 6 months to a few days and recommendations went from rehab to hospice. The thing I observed is that once you are in hospice they will make you comfortable. When you are terminal you can get all the morphine that you want. He passed yesterday afternoon. comfortably out of it, he was 92.

[farmbif]

as far as the weed thing--my previous anesthesiologist pain specialist was going to and sending associates to California and Colorado when weed was legal there and other doctors were putting on seminars about weed and pain treatment. I was at wits end with the double edged sword of the pill thing, for more than 20 years I had been prescribed almost 900mg morphine a day, and spoke to my Harvard educated doctor at length many times about options and he encouraged me too go to one of the states where weed is legal and give it a try well I did and it doesn't really kill pain. but I spent a couple months out of state and did use it to quit all the pills and I was completely with nothing for a year or so, no weed, no pills, nada, nothing, occasional some ginseng I dig out back. my physical ability severely limited. I gained about 35 pounds, go out back to cut a few trees for firewood and in short order in such crippling pain end up on my back laying in the mud for hours till I can crawl back to the house. no way to live, so now I just get my two little percocets a day for and take it when I need it the most.
as others have posted I'm not the only 1/2 cripple on here. but I just do what I can when I can. if you have to deal with such issues you understand if not its hard to imagine. just like I can't tell any of the vets what the battle field is like I wouldn't even think to try because its not my experience.

[35isit]

I'm no more injured than any of the rest of the responders. I fell out of a tree 6 years and 9 months ago. I destroyed my L3 vertebrae. I refused most pain pills while doing rehab in a rehabilitation hospital. I only took them when I absolutely couldn't stand the pain. They gave me enough strong pain pills to take 4 a day for 30 days. One year later I had 3 left. I still wake up at least twice a night in agony. I'm in agony constantly and only take occasional Ibuprofen when the pain gets too bad. I don't want to be an addict like my uncle I watched die when I was about 12 from an overdose. That was 50 years ago now. This is not a new phenomenon. Or my sister-in-law who begs money from my wife. Both because of chronic pain.

So I live with with the pain. I still shoot silhouette and trap. Plus I work everyday. I have a loving and understanding wife and friends who support me in everything I do.

[Battis]

frkelly74, I'm sorry to hear of your Dad's passing. At least he was comfortable.

As posted before, the so called opiate drug problem is similar to gun ownership: a few who misuse the drugs ruin it for everyone else who follow the rules.

[MaryB]

Except that it is now known that long term use of opiates actually increases pain - they are good for and used for breakthrough pain and this is an appropriate use. Chronic pain requires other approaches that are not being used - including lifestyle changes and learning different mental focuses to work around pain. Debilitating pain is the problem - and there really is no good approach to debilitating pain.

As a long term chronic pain sufferer I can tell you the pain meds DO WORK still. Started taking them in 2008 for my trashed spine and shoulders and knees and hip and wrists... I occasionally have to wait for the pharmacy to get them back in(they are now limited to what they can have on hand) and no meds for 2-3 days = horrible pain spikes.

[MaryB]

This is not true. My primary care doctor prescribed the Norco's when I went to him even before I got the CAT Scan that showed my kidney stone and the Urologist refilled them when I went to his office. I never went to a pain management specialist. You need to go to the pain management specialist if you have chronic pain as opposed to acute pain. They don't worry so much if you are only going to need pain meds for a few weeks or a month or so. If you are going to be in pain for the rest of your life they want you to consider alternative treatments for your pain. If you are going to be taking opioids or opiates for the rest of your life you will become addicted, you will develop a tolerance for the drugs and will need higher and higher dosages to get relief.

Tim

Been there done that for chronic pain(spine/shoulders/knees/hip/wrists...). Did the back injections, some made it worse, most did nothing, did the steroid injection int he joints, very temporary relief for 2-3 weeks and they can only do those injections so many times before tendon damage starts to add up. Did the PT(heck I still do the back stretching, have to or I can't move)... the physical damage in my joints is to far along for any of it to work...

[Jniedbalski]

Are doctor just quit giving out pain meds. I went in and they said no more your only getting 20 pills and when you run out you run out. They said I might get addicted to them. Well I have been taking them for 12 years. They where wanting everybody to start going to there pain clinic they set up. Said that they will put me on the drug that they give heron drug users I Said no. I have a ruptured and herniated discs in my lower back nerve damage from that also scoliosis. Diabetic nerve pain and bone on bone in my knees. Not counting severe arthritis. My wife has lupus and was diagnosed with Juvenal arthritis. She also has been on pain meds over ten years. They did the same to her. Last January she was in a wreck with a lady running a stop sign. The hospital gave her a 5 mg pill only and would not give her more. She had 7 top teeth broken off at the gun line and fractured her face and jaw and bone stuck in her nose from her gum line. She is still pulling slivers of bone from her gums. They would not give her any pain meds at all. I told them that she has been on 10 mg Norco for over 8 years for her lupus and they told me to have her take Tylenol and walked out. Are family doc just said to keep taking the ultram the only thing he can give us and said take Tylenol. They will not give out any pin meds here at all. The dentist use to give them out a few for getting teeth pulled. They also said take Tylenol we can’t give out pain meds any more. She has had over 8 surgeries and 10 teeth pulled and no pain meds just Tylenol.

[farmbif]

wow that's awful the way they are treating you and your wife. i wish, pray for answers to it all. I have a close friend that keeps telling me I should move to South Africa because qualudes are legal there.. I think not. a bunch of people that go to a specialist I was seeing were having morphine pumps surgically implanted when the powers that be started making the most serious cutbacks about 5 years ago.

[mickbr]

Im in the camp of staying off pain meds as much as possible. Sometimes you cant deal without them, but I worry about the clout the Pharm companies have marketing their stuff to docs these days. They have half the population hooked on something or other now, pain meds, pysch meds, kids are even on meds these days. Someone pinch me, is life that much tougher now than it was in the 70's and 80's?

All the injuries and medical discharges I saw over the years in the army, what made the biggest difference to a good outcome was positivity and getting as close to your fighting weight or 'young man size' as you could. A routine of whatever physical exercise you could manage. Whether it was running, walking, or even just squeezing a tennis ball if thats all you could do, the difference between people who did this, and people who took the 'beached whale approach' was night and day, even for spinal injuries. My theory is there are a range of hormonal rewards for being physically active, hardwired by god or mother nature( whoever you prefer) to make the task of chasing game and fighting tooth and nail less terrifying. Flood the body with as many of those hormones as you can.