Ode to the S&W Model 10/

[Bill*B]

As I have grown older, I have come to appreciate the virtues of practically and simplicity. When it comes to handguns,
the Smith & Wesson Military & Police (a.k.a. Model 10) .38 Special revolver represents the best of the breed. It was "the" police arm for the first half of the 20th century, for a reason. The little M&P has no frills - it is just straightforward, no nonsense, utterly reliable, sturdy workhorse.

Safe, lightweight, and compact, it requires no particular attention, yet is always ready. Most situations where a handgun is helpful arise in a setting of great psychological distress. One of the revolver's virtues is that you don't have to remember anything - just draw, point, and shoot. Massive power is not required - any hit will stop the music, and buy you enough time for a decisive coup de grace. Pray that you will never need a handgun for its ultimate purpose - to stop a threat from harming you! But if you do, the little M&P will get the job done.

My favorite handload for the .38 Special is 3.0 grains of IMR 700-X powder under a Accurate Molds 36-159B-D cast wadcutter. This gives low recoil, with a 25 yard impact of 650 fps or so from a 4" barrel, and 14 to 16" of penetration.

[metricmonkeywrench]

+1 I am a firm believer that every shooter should have a S&W model 10 (or it’s fancy sister the 64) in the arsenal.

There is a reason why they are still around. Simple, honest, well behaved soft shootin for fun but can carry a good bite when need be.

266538

[DHDeal]

Can't say I diagree with your choice here. I carried a revolver for close to 15 years and wasn't concerned with being undergunned. While times are different, 6 aimed is better than 15 sprayed.

A S&W K Frame with your load would last about forever and would always be easy and enjoyable to shoot.

It's funny that you posted this today as I was just putting a new set of VZ Grips on my Model 60 357 Magnum and enjoying the feel of the little revolver that roars and bucks.

[tazman]

That boolit is very similar to the Lyman 358432. I get great results with it.
3.5 grains of Bullseye for full power and 3.0 grains of Bullseye for light target work.
This boolit will do everything you need from a 38 Special.

I have been waiting to find a good Model 10 around here. It is really the only K frame S&W I want that I don't already have.

[skeettx]

I am a bit different, I am 71 and have an astigmatism and need adjustable sights
So I use the Model 10 with adjustable sights THE MODEL 15
Mike

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I mostly agree with your thoughts on the Model 10, and revolvers in general, Bill*B. But the original 158 gr. copper coated .38 Special wasn't much of a man stopper, which is why the .357 Mag. came along. Since then there have been significant improvements in bullet designs and loads which once again make the .38 Special a reasonable choice.

[Outpost75]

The S&W Model 10 and the pre-1957 .38 Special M&P Hand Ejectors are great guns. I have several. I never found the fixed sights a problem, but sometimes it takes some experimentation to find a load which shoots where the gun looks, aided by a calibrated tweak of the barrel.

266498266501266503

[rintinglen]

266530
This was a Hong Kong Police trade in that I bought 30 years ago as a home defense gun. It is a round butt 10-5 and I got it for 99 dollars. I put the Pachmayr grips and a factory, spur-less, DAO hammer on it. This and a couple of speedstrips and there are darned few scenarios that I am likely to find myself in that I couldn't shoot my way clear of. The last time I was out with it, I put 6 in the black of a 25 yard rapid fire target to silence the yapping of the Glockophile next lane over. Never for a moment think that they won't shoot.

My local Gander Mountain had some Police trade-ins on the shelf for about 300 bucks, They had some wear, but the couple I looked at were solid, with excellent bores and chambers. I almost bought another one.

[Drm50]

The S&W HE revolvers and Colt 1911 autos are the most dependable handguns ever made. At least they were until corporate bean counters started running things. I never had much use for fixed sight guns of any kind. The only new ones I ever bought were S&W 10-13 and N frame 58. The first new m10 was a 6” back about 65. I was amazed that it shot with sights. Mostly use to cheap DA H&R and IJ revolvers, I had come to conclusion sights were for looks on DA revolvers. I went through period I would give a glance at fixed sight gun. Then I started testing them, still not crazy about them but if you have a fixed sight gun that shoots you load, you can’t get better. No adj sights to knock out or break.

[Green Frog]

266530
This was a Hong Kong Police trade in that I bought 30 years ago as a home defense gun. It is a round butt 10-5 and I got it for 99 dollars. I put the Pachmayr grips and a factory, spur-less, DAO hammer on it. This and a couple of speedstrips and there are darned few scenarios that I am likely to find myself in that I couldn't shoot my way clear of. The last time I was out with it, I put 6 in the black of a 25 yard rapid fire target to silence the yapping of the Glockophile next lane over. Never for a moment think that they won't shoot.

My local Gander Mountain had some Police trade-ins on the shelf for about 300 bucks, They had some wear, but the couple I looked at were solid, with excellent bores and chambers. I almost bought another one.

Which Gander Mtn was that, rintinglen? Since you list your location as Orange, you could call a couple of GM stores “local.” I’m in Lynchburg, so it might be worth a Friday road trip, depending on which location has these.

Regards,
Froggie

[oldhenry]

I'm also a K frame admirer. I gifted my #15 to one son & my #14 to the other son. I recently filled the gap with a LEO #64 turn-in. The exterior had accumulated wear from carrying & the Pachmayr grips were worn to the bone. Under the bbl. "C.A.I. Georgia, UT" was stamped. It had no mechanical wear. I'd bet it had no more that 200 rounds on it (if that much). A little TLC with worn out 800 paper+ white rouge + JM grips and she looks better & shoots great. I agree with tazman the 358432 is accurate : mine weigh 160 gr. from my Lyman 4 cav.. I also use 358429: both over 4.0 HP-38 (4.0 of PB when they made it).

Henry

[725]

Carried one at work for years & years. Been through a lot. Searing heat, rain, winter freezes, water rescues, climbing, crawling, repelling and always with me and reliable. Gotta agree with the OP. Just perfect.

[wgg]

I had always looked at the Model 10 as a second rate revolver with its fixed sights and lowly 38 special cartridge. I bought a 10-8 heavy barrel 4" last year, it was like new. I started shooting it and it shot great no problem qualifying with it. I have come to the point where less is more, I am drawn to the simplicity of the S&W 10 and the like. I purchased Underwood Ammo 38 Plus P 158 lead gas check hp. I chronographed the load at 1040 to 1020 feet per second, so much for a lowly 38 special. I wish I had seen the light years ago. I am looking for more.

[EMC45]

One of my favorite revolvers to shoot.

[jimb16]

My S&W slightly predates the M10. It is a VS victory model from late WWII, That thing is the daddy of the M10. I swear you could shoot it blindfolded and still hit your target. Love that revolver!

[Texas by God]

I need 3 more. One for me, one each for my 25 year old twins. My wife has a m67 and earlier this year I gave my m15 to my oldest daughter. My favorite DA revolvers. If I need more than the .38 Special, out comes the Blackhawks and .45 autos.

[richhodg66]

About 25 years ago, perhaps a bit more, I was in a gun show in Lawton, Oklahoma and a guy had three tables full of police department revolvers. Blued model 10s and Blued Sevice sixes for $150 apiece, stainless Model 10s for $165. I traded off something for what I determined was the best of the stainless ones and stiill have it. Wish I had the sense to figure out how to buy a few more, but money was a little tighter back then.

[downzero]

Mine is a 66, but I couldn't agree more.

[Green Frog]

My LEO surplus K frame was a Model 66 No Dash. It went through a couple of extensive rebuilds then had its 4” barrel replaced with a 6”. It sorta stopped being a Model 66 and became a Model 616 when I had Andy Horvath refit it with a reworked Model 617 barrel and cylinder rebored to make it a 327 Fed Mag. I’ve got a K 22 and K 38 From 1948 and Model 14-3 converted to a Model 16-3 homage, but I think the “616” is the ultimate development of the K frame.

Froggie

[Jniedbalski]

One of the easiest to shoot and reload for pistole’s I have. I got a Model 10/5 and a 64 stainless. I like the stainless but the blue model 10 looks almost perfect to me.

[ddixie884]

A 4'' K frame is hard to beat without spending a lot of money.......

[WebMonkey]

266581

+1 for the model 10
(mine is a french police turn-in 10-6)

[Thumbcocker]

Was there a change in the boolit weight they were sighted in for at some point? I have a couple of the Spanish trade ins that shoot high with 150 grain wadcutters or 158 grain rnfp. They both shoot to sights with lee 125 grn. rnfps.

[ddixie884]

That would perfect for someone wanting to use WWB or the cheaper UMC Remington .38spl+P 125gr sjhp sold on promotional sale during normal times..........

[Der Gebirgsjager]

266581

+1 for the model 10
(mine is a french police turn-in 10-6)

Now there's a nice looking pair of pistolas! I like the grips on the 1911-- hard to see the logo, but looks like US Army insignia?

About Model 10s, and the preceding M&P models, I think now's definitely the time to get one (or more!) with all the police trade-ins on the market. I've always favored the pencil barrel profile myself, but when you get a Mod. 15 you automatically get the heavier barrel profile.

266582

[fatelk]

Just a few months ago I picked up a pair of Spanish police surplus revolvers, $230 each. Externally they weren't very pretty, but mechanically perfect.

[ddixie884]

Good snag.........

[fatelk]

266592

$460 for the pair: I figured I couldn't pass that up.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I would have gone for that deal! Maybe twice! :D

[fatelk]

It was a small, gun show/garage FFL. He had about eight of them, as I recall. I wished I could have bought more than I did, but picked the ones I liked best. I just got done loading about 5,000 rounds of cast and powder coated .38 Special ammo. My 14yo son helps me burn through a couple hundred every time we get to the range. He does prefer the old Model 66, though. He's laid claim to that gun.

[gwpercle]

That boolit is very similar to the Lyman 358432. I get great results with it.
3.5 grains of Bullseye for full power and 3.0 grains of Bullseye for light target work.
This boolit will do everything you need from a 38 Special.

I have been waiting to find a good Model 10 around here. It is really the only K frame S&W I want that I don't already have.

Agree the Lyman 358432 160 gr. (discontinued) and NOE's #360-160-WC PB (360432) are accuracy winners . In all my fixed sighted J and K framed S&W's there 160 grain weights shoot to the fixed sights with a six-o'clock hold . Being cast you can drive them a target velocities or up to +P ...
The flat point hits hard . 2.7 grains of Bullseye is my target load in model 64 with 4" Heavy Barrel .
5.0 grains of Unique works for a standard velocity load .
If you have 38 special, do yourself a favor ... try this bullet .
Gary

[Petrol & Powder]

A S&W K-frame chambered in 38 Special, regardless of the configuration, is an iconic handgun.
I can't recall a time during my adult life that I didn't have some type of K-frame chambered in 38 Special and frequently that role was filed by a Model 10.
It really was, and remains, an incredibly useful tool.

If there is such a thing as a "do it all" handgun, the 4" Model 10 is probably it.

[Gtek]

A 4" and 6" live here, outsides not perfect but flawless run. As stated, just something about them!

[murf205]

266601266602

You just cant beat a K frame 38 for fun shooting. I bought the stainless DAO new for $300 because the guy selling it said nobody wanted a gun that somebody had bob'd the hammer on. Ha-ah. It shoots anything you stuff in it into a very small place at 25 yds. The pencil barrel mod 10 is unfired and (shame, shame on me) but it is a safe queen.

[Jniedbalski]

Murf 205 Looks just like the two I have . But my 10 is well used by me.

[Texas by God]

I really like the 4” pencil barrel, but once owned a 5” that I really miss. I also had a 6” for a short while. I’m not that big on the heavy barrels, but nowadays I’d jump on one for sure.

[Walks]

I have a 10-5 6" bbl.
Bought from a retired LEO 40+yrs ago.
Shoots to POI w/ 150gr SWC over 3.0grs of Bullseye.
A Victory Model 5" in .38Smith & wesson too. 195gr RN over 1.5grs Bullseye.

[poppy42]

About 4 months ago I had a long talk with my wife about her putting in some shooting time. Don’t misunderstand she’s far guns before Plenty of times. She use to go dear hunting with her dad. I’ve had her Shooting from time to time. But she’s never really shown any interest in owning or shooting a handgun. Well I decided it’s time. I’m not exactly a spring chicken anymore and I’d like to know she’s at least capable if not proficient with a handgun. Now I’ve always believed that if someone is not willing to put in the time with a semi auto, know how to clear the gun, how to strip it down, what to do if you have a failure to fire, etc. You should not have a semi auto. A wheel gun is the way to go. I decided a 38 was the way to go. Having a limited fixed income I certainly don’t have the money to go out and buy a new name brand 38 special. I actually did quite a bit of searching and research and decided on a rock island arms M 200. Not the prettiest gun in the world but everything I found claimed it was extremely reliable. And very reasonably priced. The problem was I couldn’t seem to find one. What I did find in a little pawn shop/gun store in Kentucky, is the police turn in Smith and Wesson model 10! For the unbelievable price of $230!! Needless to say I jumped on it! It has quickly become my favorite gun to shoot! It’s only the second Smith and Wesson I’ve ever owned. I’ve always been a Ruger guy with the GP 100 being my favorite. This model has quickly changed my mind !
I quickly picked up several moles ranging from a Lee 158 grain round nose bullet. A Lyman 358477, a Lyman 35891 wadcutter, a 358495 wadcutter, and the mold I picked up specifically with my wife in mind. A Lyman 358345 115 grain semi wadcutter that I’ve worked down a load of 3.4 grns of sr7625.
I got a tell ya, what a hoot to shoot! I’m talking about same hole accuracy with the recoil of a 22lr! Perfect for teaching a relative newbie to shoot. You got to see the looks and hear the comments I get at the range when I put six holes in the Left eye socket on a silhouette target. I even had one fell asked me what kind a 22 that was? he wasn’t familiar with it. I just kind of smile and say it’s a 38 special. I then load it up with some of those 35847 150 grain semi wadcutters loaded over 4.9 grns of sr4756 and pop 6 more shots in the right eye socket On the same silhouette target !
Probably just my warped sense of humor but I thoroughly enjoy seeing a young Tacticool looking guy, with his $600 Glock, that has $1000 worth of add-ons on it, and he that can’t hold 12 inch groups at 7 yards. Standing there with his mouth wide-open, hhis chin Practically touching the ground, and his eyes as wide as pie plates. Staring at this old dude with his 40-year-old wheel gun, As I calmly put six shots in the same hole with what sounds like a 22 and then switch to a heavier load and put another six shots in the same hole!
Yes I really really love my S&W model 10!
Anyone know where I can find a 357 magnum and 38 snobby? LOL

[fatelk]

I actually did quite a bit of searching and research and decided on a rock island arms M 200. Not the prettiest gun in the world but everything I found claimed it was extremely reliable. And very reasonably priced. The problem was I couldn’t seem to find one. What I did find in a little pawn shop/gun store in Kentucky, is the police turn in Smith and Wesson model 10! For the unbelievable price of $230!! Needless to say I jumped on it! It has quickly become my favorite gun to shoot!

It's funny, just a couple months before I found my pair of police-surplus Model 10s, I bought a Rock Island M200, $200 brand new. I was quite happy with it, shoots great, reliable and accurate, good gun for the money! Then I happened upon these Model 10s, and compared them side by side. The S&W is just an old cop gun, but compared to the Rock Island it's a Cadillac compared to a Ford. I'll take a 40 year old, used Smith over a brand new, inexpensive copy any day.

[poppy42]

It's funny, just a couple months before I found my pair of police-surplus Model 10s, I bought a Rock Island M200, $200 brand new. I was quite happy with it, shoots great, reliable and accurate, good gun for the money! Then I happened upon these Model 10s, and compared them side by side. The S&W is just an old cop gun, but compared to the Rock Island it's a Cadillac compared to a Ford. I'll take a 40 year old, used Smith over a brand new, inexpensive copy any day.

like I said the m200 Sure ain’t a pretty gun. And I’m with you I would’ve settled for the M 200 but I sure am glad I couldn’t find one and found that model 10 instead!

[Petrol & Powder]

I really like the 4” pencil barrel, but once owned a 5” that I really miss. I also had a 6” for a short while. I’m not that big on the heavy barrels, but nowadays I’d jump on one for sure.

In a K-frame chambered for 38 Special, the pencil barrel and heavy barrel both have their place. I've owned (and still own) both types. I think the pencil barrel was often a bit maligned and overlooked in favor of the heavy barrel. This is unfortunate because the pencil barrel is obviously lighter and shoots just as well. The heavy barrel gives the shooter a little more muzzle forward weight and a lot of shooters feel it "hangs" on target a bit easier. That may be true, but that's more a shooter thing than a gun thing.

Back in the revolver days of American law enforcement, the trend towards the end of the revolver era favored the heavy barrel. Some of that was marketing because the heavy barrel was perceived to more accurate (it may be easier to shoot well but it's not inherently more accurate).
I will say that I'm grateful that S&W produced both types.

[EMC45]

I see no difference in the heavy barrels vs. the light barrels of the Model 10. In addition the "medium barrel" of a Model 15 or 67 makes no difference either to me in my shooting/loading experiences.

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree there is no difference in the inherent accuracy of pencil barrels v. heavy barrels.
There is a difference in the overall weight of the gun.

While that difference may seem trivial when handling the guns side by side, it's the end user that may feel the difference is important.

Some shooters prefer the extra muzzle forward weight and feel it helps to steady the gun. Some shooters feel the heavy barrel helps to recover the gun in recoil between shots (this may have some merit in magnums loads).
Some users prefer the reduced weight of a pencil barrel for a gun that is carried a lot and shot a little.

I hold no strong preference for either style and I think both have their place. I do feel that when seeking to reduce weight, the pencil barrel has an advantage.

[murf205]

Murf 205 Looks just like the two I have . But my 10 is well used by me.

I know that it is probably a super shooter but I just can't bring my self to shoot it. I have a well used K-38 pre 14 when the itch occurs to drive tacks. A friend of mine sold it to me for a gift of a price on the premise that I was not was going to sell it to just make a few $. My grandson might decide to shoot it and that's ok but for me they are pieces of art. Especially when you look at the polish and blue of the new guns with that hole in the side and I have a couple of those that work great.

[curiousgeorge]

I have a model 10 no dash that has gone everywhere with ne for 22 years. It's loaded with with 170 gr Keith over 5.0 grs Unique. Shoots to point of aim and has dispatched numerous yard varmints. My youngest son still remembers the time were fishing and he hung his bait on a limb up in a tree (He was 11 - don't laugh, everbody goes 'tree fishing' every now and then). Out comes the model 10 and off goes the limb. Wish I could still see like I could back then.

My model 10 was a police trade from the early 90's. With my constant carry since '98 it doesn't look real pretty any more, but it's the one gun I will never part with.

[poppy42]

After reading this thread, and adding my posts. I got a little curious and did some research on my serial number. It seems, according to everything I found, my model 10 was manufactured in 1968! And like I said in my earlier posts it’s a dream to shoot and accurate as all heck. Pretty darn good for a 52 year old, $200, police trade in. I only wish I knew it’s history. How many hands is passed through etc. if it could talk I bet you there’s one or two interesting stories to be told!

[Patrick L]

They are truly superlative!

I might disagree with one thing though; I would say Colt was the dominant police service revolver (Official Police, Police Positive, etc.) up through 1950 or so, with S&W being a close second. Then the Smith gradually overtook Colt. There are lots of reasons this happened, and they have thoroughly discussed elsewhere. You can even see this trend in TV and movies from the 50's vs. 60s.

Just an observation, not meaning to start a debate.

[35remington]

Might want to look at the number sold.

[Bill*B]

My thanks to all for your kind observations and comments. It is a joy to see that so many shooters still appreciate these fine old revolvers!

[Lloyd Smale]

ive had 10s and 64s. Good guns but make mine a 15 with a good set of sights on it. My fixed sighted smiths have all gone down the road. Only one ive ever missed even a tiny bit is my 58. It was the most accurate 41 mag ive ever owned. so much so I could live without the adjustable sights. But a 38? No way. I might go out 3 different times in a week with different loads with different bullets to play with in a 38 and don't want to get pinned down with a one trick pony.

[tazman]

There are undoubtedly some out there but I have never shot a fixed sight K frame Smith that would not put the rounds in at least the 9 ring of a B27 silhouette at 10 yards with any ammunition available.
That is what it was designed for. It was never intended as a target revolver.

[Outpost75]

There are undoubtedly some out there but I have never shot a fixed sight K frame Smith that would not put the rounds in at least the 9 ring of a B27 silhouette at 10 yards with any ammunition available.
That is what it was designed for. It was never intended as a target revolver.

I've never seen one in serviceable condition which would not shoot a 6-shot, 3-inch mean diagonal held off sandbags at 25 yards with ordinary service-grade 158-grain lead ammunition. Even the two-inchers!

[Lloyd Smale]

It was never intended as a target revolver. Nope it wasn't and theres better guns for service work today. Im not trying to rain on anyones parade. Like I said there good guns but pretty much a one trick pony set up for factory 158s. 15 will do all that and ALOT more. You can shoot 2.5 grains of bullseye and a wad cutter today and factory 158s tommarow and plus p 125s the next. Same reason I got rid of my 58. You not only have to do load development but have a narrow window as to bullet weights and speed that will hit poa at 25 yards. 10 yards and I can do that with a lcp or probably a rock. 9 ring of a b27 at 10 yards isn't what I look for 10 ring at 25 is when I say I have a good gun in my hand. Shoot a ppc match (practical police competition is what it stands for) and if you have more then 5 in the 9 ring your going home without a trophy. Many times you need a perfect score. now that said the best ppc guns in the country are built on 10s. But they have fantastic sights not a round blade and a notch.

[onelight]

You guys make me want a model 10 , I can't believe I have never had one.
I probably need counseling or something .

[Speedo66]

When I became a LEO in 1969 I wanted a Colt, but they were more money so I settled for a Model 10. Carried it for 21 years and it never skipped a beat.

In 1990 we transitioned to Glocks, and I sold my revolvers. Carried a Glock for another 19 years, then retired, took my G26 with me.

Been out now 11 years and last year decided to try a revolver again. Picked up a police turn in S&W model 65, stainless .357, a Model 10 on steroids.

I forgot how nice those old K frame S&W's were, have to say it's now my favorite handgun.

[fatelk]

I just went to a gun show today. The same dealer that I got mine from still has a couple more Model 10s, still $230 each. If I didn’t already have two I’d be tempted.

[Lloyd Smale]

I just went to a gun show today. The same dealer that I got mine from still has a couple more Model 10s, still $230 each. If I didn’t already have two I’d be tempted.

at that price id have bought them all.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm a fan of fixed sights and even go out of my way to sometimes seek out fixed sighted models over adjustable sights.

I will grudgingly admit that as I get older, the flat rear blade of some adjustable sights is a little easier for my eyes.

Many years ago an old shooter gave me a little bit of wisdom that stuck with me: Adjustable sights allow you to move the group around the target but they don't make that group any smaller. I've watched more than one poor shooter attempt to "fix" their large group with a small screwdriver instead of "fixing" what the real problem was.

If you routinely shoot different loads, there could be some advantage to having adjustable sights.

Most of the good shooters I've run across will adjust their sights to center a group with a particular load and then, never touch the sights again. In fact, I think if they could somehow weld the sights in place, they would.

[curioushooter]

The first handgun I bought was a S&W model 64-2. It was P&Red, 2.5" barrel, which I didn't know at the time is just long enough for it to have a full-length ejector rod (for 38 special) and shroud, two desirable features.

Bought it for $250 in 2008. It went with me on my honeymoon and many other places. Was accurate and easy to shoot with basically any half-brain handload I put in there or factory ammo. Spent a fair amount of time in my wife's purse, too. Quite a few Lee "trash can" 148 grain wadcutters rolled in LLA pushed by 3.1 grains of Tightgroup went through that thing. Still one of the most universaly accurate loads that I have found, if not the most, as that load shoots well in everything from my Marlin to my 19s to 686s to my brother in laws Blackhawk to my father in laws Model 28.

And later I sold it by a dumpster near a Taco Bell to get money to buy 9mm auto pistol. One of the stupidest things I've done in my life, ranking up there with spray-painting my eyes shut.

I later bought a 4" S&W 19-3 (but not a "combat magnum" it had a target trigger and hammer on it). It is one of my favorite handguns and I think one of the most logical first revolver choices.

There is a reason why the S&W K frame is the most popular handgun of all time, selling over 10 million units over its 120+ year production run.

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm a fan of fixed sights and even go out of my way to sometimes seek out fixed sighted models over adjustable sights.

I will grudgingly admit that as I get older, the flat rear blade of some adjustable sights is a little easier for my eyes.

Many years ago an old shooter gave me a little bit of wisdom that stuck with me: Adjustable sights allow you to move the group around the target but they don't make that group any smaller. I've watched more than one poor shooter attempt to "fix" their large group with a small screwdriver instead of "fixing" what the real problem was.

If you routinely shoot different loads, there could be some advantage to having adjustable sights.

Most of the good shooters I've run across will adjust their sights to center a group with a particular load and then, never touch the sights again. In fact, I think if they could somehow weld the sights in place, they would.

most of the SHOOTERs I know shoot the snot out of there guns and half the fun is searching for that right bullet and load. I too used to love the fix sighted guns. Especially the vaqueros. So much so i had two 500 linebaughs built on them and a 45 colt. That said every one of those 3 had custom drift adjustable flat blade front sight. Today my eyes are tired and nothing is as good as a square notch adjustable rear and a flat blade front narrow enough to let me see light on both sides when lined up with the rear. I guess i dont understand the weld the sight thing. Just as likely to bend a front blade if not more so if you dropped your gun then a good rear ajustable sight. Look at something like a clark ppc gun. They not only have adjustable sights to experiement with to find a good load but have sights set up so you can quickly change from 10 to 15 to 20 yards during the shoot. Dont see to many fixed sighted round front blade handguns in the hands of comp shooters or even hunters. I think MOST GOOD SHOOTERS would hands down agree with what i said. Even in the later days of police revolvers it was rare to see a fixed sighted service gun. Most used a 19. A good indication is that you an still buy a 19 but its pretty tough to find a fixed sighted DA revolver unless it is a snubby. Nostalgia is a good thing. Im old school myself but not to the point that its the main determination as to what i buy. Practicality rules there. A 10 wont do one thing that a 15 wont do better. Now if you ask me what the best darned 6 gun ever made was and it would be a tough choice but in the end id have to say a 15 would win. It sure is the finest 38 special that was ever produced. A 10 wouldnt even make it into my top 20 list. Not that its not a good gun. Its just that im not the type to go to the store and buy the exact same box of round nose or wadcutters for my 10 and shoot a box every year. Im the type that 15s have seen probably a 100 different loads and goes to the range with a coffee can full of 38s. Like most GOOD shooters do. I can grab any can of 38s in the loading room and with a couple clicks of the sights be dead on for the day.

[Drm50]

I’ve had a good many m10s. I’ve even bought them new. The K frame S&W is most trouble free revolver I know of. They also have more than adequate accuracy for the job they were intended for.
I only have one 4” with Hong Kong Police stamped in back strap. Looks like new and shoots 158gr like it’s suppose to. I have a couple 15s and 14s. I can shoot a K38 much better because of weight and longer sight radius. The sight picture on adjustables has always been sharper even when I was young. The Colt sight is only thing I liked about Colts. Colt made its reputation with SAs and will give them Brownings auto pistols too, S&W has been the leader in DAs for a good while.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lloyd, I believe you misinterpreted my "weld the sight" remark. That wasn't meant to be taken literally; that was a humorous comment referring to the fact that once they center the group they never adjusted the sight again.

I don't know if most good shooters would, "hands down agree with you" or not because neither one of us has met all of the shooters in the world.

I don't have a hundred different loads but I do have thousands of cartridges. In fact, I try to keep the number of different loads to a minimum; that may play a role in why you and I have differing opinions about adjustable sights.
My S&W Model 14 has adjustable sights and I can't remember the last time I adjusted them. It was probably shortly after I acquired the gun. Only one load is shot in that gun, so there is no reason to adjust the sights.

[Petrol & Powder]

Drm50, I have one of those former Royal Hong Kong Police model 10's (10-7) and it is a great gun. My example had a fair amount of holster wear but appeared to have been shot very little. The bluing on the recoil shield was perfect and there was no turn line.
Of course I corrected that lack of use problem !

[Lloyd Smale]

Lloyd, I believe you misinterpreted my "weld the sight" remark. That wasn't meant to be taken literally; that was a humorous comment referring to the fact that once they center the group they never adjusted the sight again.

I don't know if most good shooters would, "hands down agree with you" or not because neither one of us has met all of the shooters in the world.

I don't have a hundred different loads but I do have thousands of cartridges. In fact, I try to keep the number of different loads to a minimum; that may play a role in why you and I have differing opinions about adjustable sights.
My S&W Model 14 has adjustable sights and I can't remember the last time I adjusted them. It was probably shortly after I acquired the gun. Only one load is shot in that gun, so there is no reason to adjust the sights.

no i certainly havent met them all but do personaly know some of the big people in the handgun world and do know some that prefer fixed sights. One of them an african hunter who culled elephants and did it with a 475 for a while and he liked a fixed sighted gun for reliability. Like i said i actually had two fixed sighted 500s and a number of other single action fixed sighted guns and even a handful of fixed sighted da guns. I guess to some are happy if they can hit a coffee can at 15 yards everytime with there gun and thats about all the load development they do and just about any revolver thats even crudely sighted in will take care of that kind of work with about any load. My brother in law is one of them. I gave him a 64 that i got cheap. He happily blasts away with any left over ammo i give him. More conserned id think in making noise then actually hitting things. But hes happy so who am i to judge. Heck we all know the guy who bought a new gun and a box of ammo and still has half that box 5 years down the line. He doesnt give a rip about switching loads. Heck the guy i do crop damage shooting with uses his 2506 for the most part and ive seen him one day using 100 grain reloads and the next day using 120 factory ammo without even considering sighting in his gun. He limits his shots to 250 yards and I rarely see him miss or wound deer. Sorry but that would make me loose sleep. Im way to excessive compulsive for that. Heck i load 40 rounds of ammo for my crop damage guns and the next year if i need more and use the same load loaded on the same equiptment I HAVE to check my zero. Heck if im using the same ammo and the guns been sitting a year im checking my zero.

Im not happy with a 38 that wont shoot right to point of aim and if it shoots a group bigger then 2 inch with its best load its down the road. With those 500s i had the ability to at least shoot one with a heavy load and the other one with a much more sane load. But even then i made GOOD use of the drift adjustable front sight because switching just the bullet design with the same weight and using the same powder and primer can have groups move 3 inches easily. I dont even mind knowing i have to hold my front blade a bit high or deeper in the notch but i wont hunt with a gun that i have to use Kentucky windage and the smaller the game and caliber the more important that is to me. Why would i have to settle when the exact same gun is made with a very high quality adjustable sight. But thats just me. Obviously different strokes for different folks applys here. Let me ask this. Would you buy a fixed sighted bolt action 3006 and file the sights and use Kentucky windage hunt big game? Or are you like me and spend most times as much or more on a scope then i paid for the rifle? heck ive done and old model single six custom 41mag that Gallagher cut for a smith adjustable sight and he did a bearcat for me in 32 mag that he did the same for. Any six or five gun ive had custom made that was an adjustable sighted gun got upgraded to bowen rear and post fronts and most of my vaqueros were cut for drift adj. flat bladed front sights. Its one of the most important upgrades to me on a custom gun. Case hardening and engraving and fancy grips look cool but sights are the heart of your gun.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lloyd, I'm going to give you the last word.

[fatelk]

I just worked some overtime, and have been thinking about buying a gun. It's a foolish thought really, because I have too many already (no, I really do), but I can't shake it.

I keep looking at these little SCCY 9mm pistols. I have far nicer pistols, but it just seems that for $180 it would be something fun to shoot at the range.

The reason I'm posting this in this thread, though, is because the other option going through my mind is the Model 10 that a local FFL has for $230. It's the Spanish police trade-ins that I mentioned in an earlier post, and I already have two. The ones he has left are mechanically excellent+, but cosmetically not pretty. The grips are rough and the bluing on the barrels has turned brown, not rusty really but pretty close.

What do you all think? If logic and reason prevail, I'll buy neither. Both is not an option. If emotional "retail therapy" prevails because of a really rough week, then I may end up with one or the other.

[Texas by God]

Fatelk, for me- I'd get the m10 now and the more available 9mm later. The SCCY has good ratings but the m10s are getting rarer daily. Just my thoughts is all....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I keep looking at these little SCCY 9mm pistols.
It's the Spanish police trade-ins that I mentioned in an earlier

I've been looking at them also. Seem like a really great deal, and they now come in a couple of variations. They seem to be selling very well, and I've heard nothing bad about them.

About the Spanish police trade-ins, that's a fascinating nugget of information and history if it is true. Spanish gunmakers Astra and Llama both made revolvers that sold widely to police agencies in South America, and one would think that they would have used their domestic production. I do recall reading that some of these Model 10 imports came from France. The only revolver maker they have that I'm aware of is Manurhin, and their stuff tended to be kind of expensive. I'm not certain if they make revolvers anymore.

[Scott.M]

most of the SHOOTERs I know shoot the snot out of there guns and half the fun is searching for that right bullet and load. I too used to love the fix sighted guns. Especially the vaqueros. So much so i had two 500 linebaughs built on them and a 45 colt. That said every one of those 3 had custom drift adjustable flat blade front sight. Today my eyes are tired and nothing is as good as a square notch adjustable rear and a flat blade front narrow enough to let me see light on both sides when lined up with the rear. I guess i dont understand the weld the sight thing. Just as likely to bend a front blade if not more so if you dropped your gun then a good rear ajustable sight. Look at something like a clark ppc gun. They not only have adjustable sights to experiement with to find a good load but have sights set up so you can quickly change from 10 to 15 to 20 yards during the shoot. Dont see to many fixed sighted round front blade handguns in the hands of comp shooters or even hunters. I think MOST GOOD SHOOTERS would hands down agree with what i said. Even in the later days of police revolvers it was rare to see a fixed sighted service gun. Most used a 19. A good indication is that you an still buy a 19 but its pretty tough to find a fixed sighted DA revolver unless it is a snubby. Nostalgia is a good thing. Im old school myself but not to the point that its the main determination as to what i buy. Practicality rules there. A 10 wont do one thing that a 15 wont do better. Now if you ask me what the best darned 6 gun ever made was and it would be a tough choice but in the end id have to say a 15 would win. It sure is the finest 38 special that was ever produced. A 10 wouldnt even make it into my top 20 list. Not that its not a good gun. Its just that im not the type to go to the store and buy the exact same box of round nose or wadcutters for my 10 and shoot a box every year. Im the type that 15s have seen probably a 100 different loads and goes to the range with a coffee can full of 38s. Like most GOOD shooters do. I can grab any can of 38s in the loading room and with a couple clicks of the sights be dead on for the day.


I'm not one that feels the need to shoot 456 different weight bullets in a gun. I know a few GOOD shooters that have no problems with fixed sight guns. Of course they aren't prone to blame the gun for poor shooting.

[fatelk]

I took you all's advice-$230


268004

[Scott.M]

I took you all's advice-$230


268004



Perfect! Enjoy, they are fine, regardless of the 'one trick pony' comments.

Unless you're prone to carry a small screwdriver everywhere with you and adjust sights been reloads, or bad guys, you'll be good.

[EMC45]

I took you all's advice-$230


268004

Load it with a 148-160gr. bullet and you're golden. It should shoot better than you're able.

[PhatForrest]

And later I sold it by a dumpster near a Taco Bell to get money to buy 9mm auto pistol. One of the stupidest things I've done in my life, ranking up there with spray-painting my eyes shut.


You sir, should be ashamed of yourself for selling that revolver next to a dumpster like a cheap *****! ;)

Picked up a PD trade in 64 a few years ago for cheap, and it's been one of my favorites ever since.

I keep telling myself I dont need all kinds of 358 molds, but I want to experiment with all manner of 38 special loads. WCs, Keith SWCs, RN, RNFP, it's an addiction that rivals hard drugs, except I'm not pawning my loved one's possessions for lead, YET.

[Jtarm]

Damn, now I have to go buy a Model 10, even though I already own 7 K-frames, including 2 M-64s.

I once had a sweet 1953 M&P 5”, diamond magna stocks.

Still kicking myself letting that one go. It was fun to shoot.

My EDC is a 3” M-64, sometimes a 3” M-65, but every S&W revolver enthusiast should have at least on M-10 or M&P (still irritates me they slapped that name on a plastic bottom-feeder🤬)

[eb in oregon]

Sold it a few years back. Shouldn't have.
280138

[Electrod47]

A Buddy at work in 1985 or so sold me a Model 10 he never fired and had for about a year for 100 bucks. Thought I was doing him a favor. "Soda Straw barrel" "Hog wallow sights" Used to buy a box of reloaded wadcutters from small gun shop in Bullhead City AZ for 6 bucks a box.
The smoothest double action I have ever felt. I could rapid fire 6 rounds in about 1 second into pie plate at 5 paces. Walk shotgun shells around on the ground from the hip at 5 paces. It was amazing. Let it go in a swap and trade fever of my youth. A hundred handguns later, I still remember that one.

[Noveske86]

I was a 18 year cadet in the corrections academy when was handed a well worn model 10 to qualify with. The trigger was so smooth and the sights dead on. I shot the only perfect score of that class. Years go by and we switched the model 10's out for Glock. I pick up two DRC issue model 10's for stupid cheap. I will always have a soft spot for a old worn out 38 special.

[david s]

Around the time of Y2K I picked up a 4" heavy barreled nickeled model 10 as there was suddenly a flood of them on the used market, and a good model 10 could deal with all the hype. It joined a three inch model 65.

[stubshaft]

I managed to pick up a 4" thin barrel police trade in from a foreign country (Malaysia?) for under $200.00. It shoots 158 gr. LRN right to point of aim at 25yds.

[Nazgul]

Probably the single most accurate handgun I own. Simple, honest and shoots everything I load into it well.

Don

[arlon]

One of my 10s (10-9) was good enough for the Royal Hong Kong Police. Pretty good shooter too.

[Drm50]

There is nothing better than a fixed sight gun that shots your load to the point of aim. Having said that a lot of fixed sights are hard to see under best conditions. Many of them are small. If your fixed sight gun doesn’t print your load, you have to hold off to shoot accurately. That can be done well with experience at given range at good target providing background. You live with it or buy a adj sight gun.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

And that would be one of these--- a Model 15 ! :-D

280249
Click to enlarge.
Altamont grips.

DG

[Dale53]

Der Gebirgsjager;
I REALLY agree with you about the Model 15. Our local Police Department was a shooting department. Our local club had a really good relationship with them and shot PPC with them and actually ran their matches for them so that all of them could compete. They were issued Model 15's as their Chief was a Master Pistol Shot. I developed LOTS of respect for them. Properly loaded, the .38 Special was a good field cartridge as well as for self defense. The bad rep they got for lack of "stopping power" was simply the round nose bullets they were saddled with. At any rate, when police departments nationwide adopted the 9mm autos, their were tens of thousands of these fine revolvers that hit the market. For years, you could find a Model 15 from many sources for a fraction of their REAL value. What's not to like? A decent cartridge, excellent sight picture and superb accuracy at a VERY good price. Four or five years ago, I picked up one from a friend of mine who bought it off the sale table at our local gun club for $275.00. Now, with the crazy prices out there now, I suspect the good values may no longer be available, sorry to say.

On topic, the Model 10's became widely available when they were traded in for the Model 15's. My dad had an M&P 4" police issue (forerunner of the Model 10), that my younger brother still has. It has the old "long action" and is smooth as silk double action as well as an excellent single action trigger. It shoots to the sights with a practical load, too.

FWIW
Dale53

[Larry Gibson]

Many years back the PD I worked for transitioned from 5" M15s to 4" M15s. We were allowed to purchase our own service revolver for the trade in price which was less than $50. I got mine, still have it

280254

[tazman]

I have yet to meet a K frame S&W revolver that is not a good firearm.
Some are so consistently accurate that they are boring.

[Dutchman]

S-prefix circa 1945-47. This came along just a couple years ago for a price to low I couldn't say no. Owned half a dozen over the years. Haven't shot it yet!!

https://images12.fotki.com/v539/photos/4/28344/9895637/20180430_185915x-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/firearms/20180430-185915x.html)

https://images54.fotki.com/v101/photos/4/28344/9895637/20180430_185932x-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/firearms/20180430-185932x.html)

Have a 2nd MP but much older. Circa 1923. Marked for J.P.D. 1933. (Joliet?).

https://images54.fotki.com/v289/photos/2/28344/3347807/q11-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/sw/q11.html)

https://images51.fotki.com/v1654/photos/2/28344/3347807/q05backstrap-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/sw/q05_backstrap.html)

Made many trips back to the factory. At least once for factory re-blue as evidenced by the star next to the serial number. And a 2nd star under the grips.

https://images46.fotki.com/v297/photos/2/28344/3347807/q01-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/sw/q01.html)

https://images46.fotki.com/v285/photos/2/28344/3347807/q04butt-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/sw/q04_butt.html)

https://images41.fotki.com/v1402/photos/2/28344/3347807/q3-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/sw/q02.html)

This date stamp up higher on the grip frame.

https://images34.fotki.com/v74/photos/2/28344/3347807/q03frontgripframe-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/sw/q03_front_grip_frame.html)

Despite all the evidence of use the bore is very nice and the action is perfectly fine.

Dutch

[Drm50]

Here was one of my favorite 38sp S&Ws. I like 5” & 6” barrels over 4” or 83/8” on S&Ws. This is a M&P Target. With the Magna grips and pencil barrel it just feels right. I had three m14s and this M&P until few weeks ago. Sold it and two of my M14s, kept one for grins. 280279

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Dutch, those are nice. Haven't fired the first one yet? Something I hope you'll take care of in the near future! The second one is very interesting.

Seems like Model 10s are acknowledged keepers, as demonstrated by the popularity of this thread, nearing 90 posts!

Tazman is exactly right in his assessment of S&W K-frame revolvers.

Larry Gibson tells us he was issued a 5" Mod. 15. Truthfully, I didn't know that they made them in 5"--but I've never done a study on it. I was issued a 6" Mod. 14, and although I've seen 5" and 6" Mod. 10s, I didn't know that Mod. 15s came with something in between. There's no difference at all that I can tell between a Mod. 15 and 14 except the barrel length. Seems as though a variation on everything can be found in S&W products, so I won't be surprised when someone produces a 4" Mod. 14!

There's no denying that old police guns are interesting, and that they have history. Sometimes it's hard to find out who they belonged to.
Here are a couple. They are M&P models, pre Mod. 10. Sweet actions, very accurate. The first one with the simulated pearl grips (don't tell me what Gen. Patton said--I didn't put them on there...but they kind of grow on you) probably belonged to a homicide detective on Chicago P.D. and came to me from a pawn shop in Banning, CA via Gunbroker. It has been reblued and some engraving on the left side became hard to read from being buffed, but it says "Adolph Gary". I googled the name back when I got it, about 12 years ago, and came up with a obituary for a fellow by that name and the fact that he had worked for C.P.D. and a couple of other agencies after retiring. Not proof positive that the gun was his, but an unusual name and the gun is the right vintage for his career. The second one is stamped "W.M. Haverty" and a badge number, and the detective work on it was done by Forum Member Double Adobe who likes to do such things, and learned of a deceased San Francisco P.D. motorcycle officer by that name. I replaced the grips with some from Altamont. I have fired both of these, and both are very smooth and accurate.

280280

Click to enlarge.

Dale53--I can only agree with you about the qualities of the Mod. 15. I was a Jr. partner in an LGS for awhile, and we got in several USAF surplus Mod. 15s. My brother, who was in the AF at the time and years later retired as a SMSGT, insisted that we let him pick one out to buy. He's not a fanatical gun guy like many of us are, but has several and takes good care of them. He had just returned from Thailand where he was stationed during the Viet Nam War, and must have had some dealings with the Mod. 15 to like them so much. Untold stories, you know. That would have been around 1977 or 78. Well, as fate would have it, in the middle 1980s I found myself working for the AF as a Contract USAF Security Police Officer. We had an armory full of M16s, but the issue weapon was the USAF M15 S&W revolvers and the strange looking 110 gr. FMJ ammo where the bullet is seated deeply into the case and heavily crimped. It was hot stuff, and felt like firing a .357 Mag. After carrying one and qualifying with it for 5 years I knew I had to own one myself.

DG

[ddixie884]

I took you all's advice-$230


268004

Good deal. I don't see how you could go wrong......

[Dutchman]

Dutch, those are nice. Haven't fired the first one yet? Something I hope you'll take care of in the near future! The second one is very interesting.

Back in the 70s I had a 6" MP marked TVA.. Tennessee Valley Authority. I've had 5" as well and I kinda prefer the 6" for a shooter. I thought the Model 14 had a heavier barrel than the 15? Maybe not:-).

Since October 2020 I've been casting and loading .38 Spec, .44 Spec, .45acp and a couple rifle calibers for when the weather warms up. I intend on shooting the nice MP. I think it was a dresser gun. Sat in a dresser for most of its life. Has a couple warts from neglectful handling. I bought it along with a 1952 Winchester 94 for under 3 bills for both. Like I said... couldn't pass it by.

I was in the USAF 51 years ago... but not for very long. Pre-existing medical got me a honorable discharge.

Dutch

[Texas by God]

I've never owned a Model 10 that I didn't regret letting go. My first one was a 5" for $75 bought in a Cafe from a friend. A couple of 4" and a 6" Barney Fife " Baby" came and went, too. My current one is my third 4" one- but first round butt. I'm partial to m15s, but the m10 Will Do. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210328/bbf102fa8ec28ae7a6d6b673ce63e89e.jpg

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[Cargo]

Last year my wife went out to pick up Chinese food. Traffic was light and she was early so she stopped at a pawn shop in the same strip center. Needless to say she brought home dinner and a 10-8.

[ddixie884]

Many years back the PD I worked for transitioned from 5" M15s to 4" M15s. We were allowed to purchase our own service revolver for the trade in price which was less than $50. I got mine, still have it

280254

Good price on a great revolver. Glad you were able to buy and hold it..........

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Last year my wife went out to pick up Chinese food. Traffic was light and she was early so she stopped at a pawn shop in the same strip center. Needless to say she brought home dinner and a 10-8.

:2_high5: You married well!

DG

[hc18flyer]

Not a Model 10, but I just purchased a 15-5 on GB for $630. My Grandson and I ran 150 rounds thru it today, and we are both 'hooked'! I couldn't be happier with my purchase! Load some more this week and shoot her again next weekend! Tom

[Jtarm]

Last year my wife went out to pick up Chinese food. Traffic was light and she was early so she stopped at a pawn shop in the same strip center. Needless to say she brought home dinner and a 10-8.

Dang, she’s a keeper!

Oh, and your wife, too.

[ddixie884]

:2_high5: You married well!

DG

Yes, you did.......

[Texas by God]

Mine went with me to feed cows. I shot one dry log, then aimed 6 o'clock at the bullet hole 5 times. A steadier hand could have put them all in one hole. Since it hits where I want with this load; that's what I'll shoot. As- cast Lee 150swc PC'd over 4 grs of AA#2.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210409/ed5b4c27503b4028bda35289b4de993f.jpg

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