Is your church like this?

[dtknowles]

https://medium.com/backyard-theology/how-churches-really-spend-their-money-18bb0cbff566

It is not just Christians, Mosques, Temples and Synagogues are much the same.

Tim

[Ozark mike]

I will not comment on what they do with there money with the exception of this is why i quit going and they may need more Mississippi squirrels

[Ickisrulz]

It is hard to get away from the expenses of personnel and real estate. But those two areas could be streamlined in many, many cases.

I was once told that a person should get their living from the church when they were too busy with church business to work a secular job. This makes sense to me. I have seen where people are salaried and spend far less than full time (or part time) doing church work. But this doesn't seem to concern many churches, because the person on staff is well liked. It never makes sense to me. Leadership salaries should look like the salaries church members make; not too high and not too low.

Another problem I have seen is that faith-based organizations I have seen are reluctant to get rid of poor performers. People should be working for their salary, even if they are an unpaid volunteer. In this case, churches should be run more like a business that is trying to earn a profit.

A permanent church building is usually desired. I think people are reluctant to just walk into a church service conducted at a private home or even a store front. The problem comes with building projects. My thought is use what you have until you have a congregation that will no longer fit in the existing structure.

Passing out money is something most churches do. Spending money on missions should be done very carefully involving research and oversight. Giving to the poor should also be done intelligently. The Church is not supposed to be funding laziness.

[Blackwater]

It is idiotic to expect churches to exist without buildings and their maintenance! People who read these type articles are just LOOKING for something to complain about, and to disparage our churches, and THAT, my friends, must come from someone with no real faith - just opinions and sensibilities of a very delicate variety. There's nothing wrong with the way most churches spend their money. To think so is merely an expression of one's agnosticism or atheism. People have been railing at the Christian church and churches for 2,000 years, and never once have they mattered, or affected the church. It goes on like a wagon going downhill! And many thanks to God for that, too!

[dtknowles]

It is not just Christian Churches, see my thread starting post. Have you seen some of the huge, ornate, expensive religious buildings that have been built all around the world. Some of them in countries that can't feed their people. Look at the Catholic Churches with Gold candlesticks and chalices. Do you think that is what God wants?

Tim

[smithnframe]

They're all after money!!!

[1hole]

Tim, your valid examples of the vain glorious RCC errors and excesses for the last 2,000 years hardly applies to those of us who reject those practices today so your attempt to paint us with their same brush falls flat.

I have no urge to address the RCC, Muslims, Hebrews, etc.; they aren't in my Godly assigned area of responsibility.

[tarbe]

The author is seeing the disconnect, but still does not quite "get it".

Why do I say that? This statement: "The Church talks so much about changing the world, and transforming peoples’ lives. Well, it turns out, it has the financial means to actually carry out this mission".

The author actually believes it is by human effort and spending, that the Gospel is advanced?

God doesn't "need" our money to change the world. He changes it however He pleases...often in spite of our fumbling human efforts.

Does money help? Sometimes. Does money hurt? Sometimes.

[country gent]

I want to say Ray Stevens but dont think its the right singer so will say it like this, The singer writer of The Streak has several of these gun ditties One of them Is would Jesus wear a rolex. Listen to it and it says a lot

[tarbe]

Look at the Catholic Churches with Gold candlesticks and chalices. Do you think that is what God wants?

Tim

Nope. God is looking for children who will humbly serve and worship Him because He is worthy. Regardless of socioeconomic status, designer clothes or good looks!

Remember the prayer of the tax collector? God have mercy on me, a sinner!

[dtknowles]

Tim, your valid examples of the vain glorious RCC errors and excesses for the last 2,000 years hardly applies to those of us who reject those practices today so your attempt to paint us with their same brush falls flat.

I have no urge to address the RCC, Muslims, Hebrews, etc.; they aren't in my Godly assigned area of responsibility.

We could simply believe that your answer should have been. "No my Church is not like that." I for one would believe you. I have been to Churches that were modest. Another that is not so modest is the LDS. Think the Mormon Tabernacle. I expect that some place on the planet there is a Mosque that is modest with a pious congregation. The point isn't that all churches and religions raise a lot of money that mostly creates wealth for the denomination and the leaders. The point is that many churches and religions raise a lot of money that mostly enriches the pastor and the denomination. Catholic Churches are selling real estate to raise money to pay for law suits but the Vatican has sheltered itself from these lawsuits saying that each parish/diocese stands alone so they can file bankruptcy and the greater church is not liable.

[dtknowles]

....I have no urge to address the RCC, Muslims, Hebrews, etc.; they aren't in my Godly assigned area of responsibility.

You might want to check with God on that one again.

Galatians 6:1-2
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

[Thunder Stick]

My independent, non denominational, Biblical church gives 50% of receipts to missions and missionaries. We just paid off a property for a church in the Philippines that came to $7,500 USD.

Our pastor never preaches about money or tithing and has no idea how much is received in offerings. Only the church book keeper knows that.

There are six persons on staff at our church, of which I am one. Total yearly gross salaries is $100,000. $9,500 of that goes to me.

Our church is 7 years old. Each year, the senior pastor has taken a voluntary cut in pay. Every year.

The balance of our receipts goes to neighborhood outreach, facilities maintenance, utilities and insurance.

We have both English only and a Spanish only services each Sunday, as well as various mid week gatherings like women’s, men’s, youth, kids, etc.

We also have a gun club.

[dverna]

Our church recently completed a $200k expansion to serve those with special needs. My son is a special needs person but I did not agree with using that much money to help boost church attendance for that sector of our community so I did not contribute.

Last spring we were to have a Men's Conference and the cost was $40 each to attend. At the last minute the conference was cancelled due to Covid-19 and they did not refund the money. It was in excess of $40k.

The church is very "successful". Largest in the area...service is aired on radio and TV, and streamed on the internet. Every week we are "reminded" to give and there are various "buckets" that need filling....Elders Fund, normal tithes and offerings, missions, construction projects.

I stopped giving about 3-4 months ago. How they handled the Men's Conference left me cold. I told them I did not want the money back so it was not a personal "loss", but I am sure there were others who felt their money had been "stolen". What troubled me the most was they used scripture to justify their actions. When quoting the Bible is used to justify doing what is blatantly wrong, it is telling.

If the pastor was not as good as he is, and we did not have friends there, I would leave for another church.

[1hole]

The very few money crazy "churches" I know of are TV variations of the old "name it and claim it" and "give us your seed money" type; they are invariably "works" and "happy-clappy/feel good about yourself", not Biblically, oriented. But, most churches are good stewards and few ministers or staff are ever financially secure.

[1hole]

....Last spring we were to have a Men's Conference and the cost was $40 each to attend. At the last minute the conference was cancelled due to Covid-19 and they did not refund the money. ........

........ I stopped giving about 3-4 months ago. How they handled the Men's Conference left me cold. I told them I did not want the money back so it was not a personal "loss", but I am sure there were others who felt their money had been "stolen".

I make no judgement because I don't know anything but what you post. I do however know a little of how such things are planned and how a good bit of money must be committed and distributed BEFORE many large scale events can even get off the ground.

I wonder, did your Church leaders make the decision to keep the money and not make refunds or were they also caught helpless on the facts of this C-19 politically motivated shut-down?

[dverna]

I make no judgement because I don't know anything but what you post. I do however know a little of how such things are planned and how a good bit of money must be committed and distributed BEFORE many large scale events can even get off the ground.

I wonder, did your Church leaders make the decision to keep the money and not make refunds or were they also caught helpless on the facts of this C-19 politically motivated shut-down?

The way I look at it, it does not matter. If you take money to provide a service, you provide the service or return the funds. It is a "business" in the end. No different if a concert event is cancelled...money is returned.

It would have been better if they had asked people to help them out by "donating" the ticket price to cover whatever costs they had incurred. Most "Christians" would have done so but for the church to make the decision it was wrong. I told them to keep my funds before the church made their decision....so it did not affect me financially.

Bear in mind this occurred while they were asking for $150k for the Speical Needs expansion and they actually collected over $200k.

The church has a budget of about a million dollars a year. $40k would have not been a devastating hit and like I said, many of the participants would likely have not asked for a refund...the church covered their butt and did not trust in mankind or God IMHO.

[Blackwater]

It really doesn't matter what kind of decorations and gildings a church has. What DOES matter is what is in the hearts of those who attend there. I have never gone inside a Catholic church and failed to be inspired. The plainer ones inspire me, and the classic old ones leave me in awe of all the things that were done to honor our Lord, and hopefully, to please Him. Christ deserves all the honor and praise we can send His way. Why not gold and silver and objects of beauty? It's what's in the artist's and craftsmen's hearts that matters. All else will disappear one day. Even the finest artwork, etc. Misers don't see it that way, but then, misers miss a lot of things.

[.429&H110]

My North Pole Pastor taught me this one when I asked him if Carhardts were ok, 'cause I worked after church:

One Sunday a cowboy visited church
He looked like a cowboy
He walked like a cowboy
He talked like a cowboy
Had cowboy stuff on his cowboy boots.
After the service the minister said: "I want you to go home and pray about what to wear next Sunday".
So the next Sunday the cowboy was back same as ever.
"I thought I told you to pray about what to wear to church!"
"Well... I did... and God said He'd never been to your church so He wouldn't know what to wear".

(But we would thank you to clean up a little.)
(I miss Pastor Troy)

[1hole]

Seems most organized religions are anti-gun, pro immigrant, pro socialism. I'm pro American, so that doesn't sit well.

You make an interesting observation about "most organized religions." I'm old enough to have watched a few church and even denominational splits over the questions of are Christians to be more concerned about things of God or social engineering. Seems every religious organization begins with the right focus and grows to a peak. Then "liberal" wolves in leadership will take off their sheep skins and burrow into the headquarters and the downward spiral of spiritual corruption begins.

Religious "social club" libs first take control of individual congregations and then whole denominations with demonic ideas of self aggrandizement and works instead of continuing to cling to scripture until the breakaway pattern of church doctrinal corruption and renewal repeats itself.

[Thundarstick]

The congregation of Christians I worship with are not like this.

[JimB..]

https://medium.com/backyard-theology/how-churches-really-spend-their-money-18bb0cbff566

It is not just Christians, Mosques, Temples and Synagogues are much the same.

Tim

Tim, is your Church like this? How do they spend your tithe?

[dtknowles]

Tim, is your Church like this? How do they spend your tithe?

I don't belong to a church or religion. My worship does not require a church, God is everywhere.

Tim

[a danl]

You might want to check with God on that one again.

Galatians 6:1-2
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

that's out of context, paul is talking to the brothers in the church body not other denominations

[a danl]

I don't belong to a church or religion. My worship does not require a church, God is everywhere.

Tim

so, you don't give anything to God? are you robbing God? the bible says don't neglect the gathering together, praying together, fellowshipping together,etc.

[dtknowles]

so, you don't give anything to God? are you robbing God? the bible says don't neglect the gathering together, praying together, fellowshipping together,etc.

My charity does not have to pass through a church so the church does not take a cut. More of my charity goes to the people who need help. What had you jumping to the assumption that I did not give to charity? Do you only give to the church? Their you go talking about what a book I already told you I don't always agree with, says. Do you understand any other theology beside the Bible? Don't you understand that just like rote prayer and repetition, group prayer and fellowshipping with people who mostly all agree is more brainwashing and cultic techniques. The people who wrote the bible knew how to manipulate people.

Tim

[a danl]

My charity does not have to pass through a church so the church does not take a cut. More of my charity goes to the people who need help. What had you jumping to the assumption that I did not give to charity? Do you only give to the church? Their you go talking about what a book I already told you I don't always agree with, says. Do you understand any other theology beside the Bible? Don't you understand that just like rote prayer and repetition, group prayer and fellowshipping with people who mostly all agree is more brainwashing and cultic techniques. The people who wrote the bible knew how to manipulate people.

Tim

sorry, tim i don't think you would understand if i were to respond to your rebuttal, so i wont.

[JimB..]

I can’t fault Tim for giving to charity or otherwise helping others. My personal view is that I’m a steward for some things but that God owns it all. Sometimes he tells me to help someone, so I do. I don’t do these things to be saved, I do them because I am saved, it is part of my celebration.

I also give to the church. Sometimes I pay attention to how they spend money, but I’m more interested in their teaching. If the teaching seems solid then I’ll stick around and give them some of God’s money to help with their ministry. Who am I to judge how such a gift is used? I used to be upset at the idea that it might be used for nice furniture or that it might get to some bum who would find a way to convert it to drugs, but I gave that up.

I also can’t fault him for saying that God is everywhere.

Tim, may I ask why you are here? Without the structure of an organized religion you don’t have the associated need to grow or need to save others (depending on perspective). You don’t seem to be concerned that a bunch of us are facing severe adverse consequences because of our faith. You mention that some might be brainwashed, but there seems to be no ill effect as a result. In short, you aren’t evangelizing. It would be petty and shallow to take pot shots at organized religion, we all recognize that it’s a flawed construct of man. So why are you here? Did God perhaps send you simply to be the foil?

[dtknowles]

I can’t fault Tim for giving to charity or otherwise helping others. My personal view is that I’m a steward for some things but that God owns it all. Sometimes he tells me to help someone, so I do. I don’t do these things to be saved, I do them because I am saved, it is part of my celebration.

I also give to the church. Sometimes I pay attention to how they spend money, but I’m more interested in their teaching. If the teaching seems solid then I’ll stick around and give them some of God’s money to help with their ministry. Who am I to judge how such a gift is used? I used to be upset at the idea that it might be used for nice furniture or that it might get to some bum who would find a way to convert it to drugs, but I gave that up.

I also can’t fault him for saying that God is everywhere.

Tim, may I ask why you are here? Without the structure of an organized religion you don’t have the associated need to grow or need to save others (depending on perspective). You don’t seem to be concerned that a bunch of us are facing severe adverse consequences because of our faith. You mention that some might be brainwashed, but there seems to be no ill effect as a result. In short, you aren’t evangelizing. It would be petty and shallow to take pot shots at organized religion, we all recognize that it’s a flawed construct of man. So why are you here? Did God perhaps send you simply to be the foil?

Thanks for your considerate response.

You are going to have to help me with "a bunch of us are facing severe adverse consequences because of our faith." I seem unconcerned because I am unaware. Which Faith and what severe adverse consequences. I know that Christians feel like they are under attack and yes, many on the left are very critical of Evangelicals but what are these severe adverse consequences. The attacks from the left are not about faith they are about politics. The left mistakenly believes that all Evangelicals are racist and sexist, a White Supremist Patriarchy. I have not seen reports of severe adverse impacts on Evangelicals. Are we talking about job or housing discrimination? Are we talking about violent attacks on Churches?

"Why am I here? I came because of the shooting and casting discussions. I always enjoyed theological and philosophical discussions. It really started in Middle School with playground talks with my friends and led to late night discussions in the dorm at university. In between I had a bit of a epiphany that put me on a path to my current beliefs. I am motivated to share and question. We have for too long worried too much about ourselves and the material world and religion has not done enough to counter that. I am too evangelizing not for a religion but for reformed behavior. I want everyone to take better care of God's creations and God's children. I am not here to convert people to a new religion. I am here to encourage people to look outside their bubble to see a bigger picture and to try and encourage them to be better people. To love more and hate less.

It is not a problem with Jesus teachings but with people not understanding that accepting Jesus means you need to model the behavior he taught not just accept that by claiming Jesus as your savior you are saved. You can't claim Jesus if you don't do everything you can to act how Jesus would want you to act. I think many who think they are saved are not because they are not forgiven because they are not truly sorry for their sins. Repent and be saved. Own your mistakes and fix them if you can. You can't make mistakes and just move on. We may all be sinners but some of us when we sin we feel bad and feel the need to fix what we broke.

I also believe that you can deny Jesus but if you act like Jesus would want you to act then you will be saved. Jesus did not want us to worship him, he wanted us to act with love and kindness to all the world. When I talk like this I get responses for scripture denying that acts lead to salvation. Yes, it is not that acts that save you it is the love behind those actions that saves you. It is not what you do or don't do but what is in your heart. Not what you did or did not do but why you did or did not do it. It is actually greedy and sinful to lust after salvation. You need to be more concerned about doing good than about whether you will be saved. If you only reason you don't do bad things is because you are afraid of hell then you will not be saved.

Almost all devoutly religious are brainwashed. Not just Christians. A religion would not become popular if it did not use well know behavioral modification techniques. This brainwashing has often been a good thing. Religion is the opiate for the masses. It helps keep the peace and keeps the masses from causing disturbances or even revolting. Except when it does the opposite, when the Powers that Be use religion to rally the public against threats to the Establishment.

I think most of the charity that goes to Churches is really used to benefit the congregation and is not really charity but more like club dues.

God is everywhere and what ever you do to God's creations and God's children you do to God. Do good because you love God and God's creations not because you will be saved for you good works but because you will be saved by your loving heart. If your heart is full of love you will have very little room for hate. I don't hate very much but I have a lot of loving sadness for the wrong I see. I would be less sad if I see less wrong, less hate and more understanding. People act they way they do for reasons.

Sinners are lustful, greedy, hateful, gluttonous, envious, prideful, and violent

Lovers are temperate, courageous, prudent, just, faithful, hopeful and charitable.

You seem more like a lover than a sinner to me.

Tim

[JimB..]

Thanks for your considerate response.

You are going to have to help me with "a bunch of us are facing severe adverse consequences because of our faith." I seem unconcerned because I am unaware. Which Faith and what severe adverse consequences. I know that Christians feel like they are under attack and yes, many on the left are very critical of Evangelicals but what are these severe adverse consequences. The attacks from the left are not about faith they are about politics. The left mistakenly believes that all Evangelicals are racist and sexist, a White Supremist Patriarchy. I have not seen reports of severe adverse impacts on Evangelicals. Are we talking about job or housing discrimination? Are we talking about violent attacks on Churches?

"Why am I here? I came because of the shooting and casting discussions. I always enjoyed theological and philosophical discussions. It really started in Middle School with playground talks with my friends and led to late night discussions in the dorm at university. In between I had a bit of a epiphany that put me on a path to my current beliefs. I am motivated to share and question. We have for too long worried too much about ourselves and the material world and religion has not done enough to counter that. I am too evangelizing not for a religion but for reformed behavior. I want everyone to take better care of God's creations and God's children. I am not here to convert people to a new religion. I am here to encourage people to look outside their bubble to see a bigger picture and to try and encourage them to be better people. To love more and hate less.

It is not a problem with Jesus teachings but with people not understanding that accepting Jesus means you need to model the behavior he taught not just accept that by claiming Jesus as your savior you are saved. You can't claim Jesus if you don't do everything you can to act how Jesus would want you to act. I think many who think they are saved are not because they are not forgiven because they are not truly sorry for their sins. Repent and be saved. Own your mistakes and fix them if you can. You can't make mistakes and just move on. We may all be sinners but some of us when we sin we feel bad and feel the need to fix what we broke.

I also believe that you can deny Jesus but if you act like Jesus would want you to act then you will be saved. Jesus did not want us to worship him, he wanted us to act with love and kindness to all the world. When I talk like this I get responses for scripture denying that acts lead to salvation. Yes, it is not that acts that save you it is the love behind those actions that saves you. It is not what you do or don't do but what is in your heart. Not what you did or did not do but why you did or did not do it. It is actually greedy and sinful to lust after salvation. You need to be more concerned about doing good than about whether you will be saved. If you only reason you don't do bad things is because you are afraid of hell then you will not be saved.

Almost all devoutly religious are brainwashed. Not just Christians. A religion would not become popular if it did not use well know behavioral modification techniques. This brainwashing has often been a good thing. Religion is the opiate for the masses. It helps keep the peace and keeps the masses from causing disturbances or even revolting. Except when it does the opposite, when the Powers that Be use religion to rally the public against threats to the Establishment.

I think most of the charity that goes to Churches is really used to benefit the congregation and is not really charity but more like club dues.

God is everywhere and what ever you do to God's creations and God's children you do to God. Do good because you love God and God's creations not because you will be saved for you good works but because you will be saved by your loving heart. If your heart is full of love you will have very little room for hate. I don't hate very much but I have a lot of loving sadness for the wrong I see. I would be less sad if I see less wrong, less hate and more understanding. People act they way they do for reasons.

Sinners are lustful, greedy, hateful, gluttonous, envious, prideful, and violent

Lovers are temperate, courageous, prudent, just, faithful, hopeful and charitable.

You seem more like a lover than a sinner to me.

Tim

Thanks Tim,

I am undoubtedly a sinner. I do regret my failings, but they do not cause me too much concern. I have two daughters, and I can’t imagine that there is anything they could do that would make me not love them, how much greater is God’s perfect love for us?

A husband says that he loves his wife, but he beats her and cheats on her, does he love her? I think you’re saying that many people say that they love the lord and accept salvation, but their actions betray what is truly in their hearts. I agree, there are many that lie to themselves, and if your mission is to help people become more aware of how their actions, or inactions, reflect their true beliefs, then I wish you all the best.

I haven’t really given it much thought, but if actions expose beliefs, then while good acts don’t provide salvation, do they demonstrate an acceptance of God’s grace which leads to salvation? It seems to be the flip side of the same coin, but I very much dislike that it puts me/us in control rather than submitting to God. Consider my children again, I hope that they do things to show that they know that I love them, not that they do things (perhaps the same exact things) to earn my love; could a stranger do the same things and earn my love? The actions seem far less important than the intent, especially for the children.

My comment about adverse effects was referring to the question of your intent. I meant are you here evangelizing because you think our salvation is not assured. You addressed my question, so no need to dig into this minor miscommunication.

Church is important. It is a safe place to discuss faith, although it isn’t always a good place to debate faith. It is a place where we first learn to put our faith to work. This supportive environment helps to offset the constant bombardment of negative messages out in “the real world.” For lots of reasons I never fit into a church community as a child, and to this day I tend to avoid church. I don’t think that I need it to be saved, but I now wonder what I could have accomplished towards God’s purpose had I worked with those folks. The saying “all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing” comes to mind. Perhaps I should do more to help the church rather than walk away from it because of my history and its flaws.

Your note deserves a more thoughtful response, but I woke up and started writing this and now hate to discard it. I may amend it in the morning if time permits.

Jim

[dtknowles]

Thanks Tim,

I am undoubtedly a sinner. I do regret my failings, but they do not cause me too much concern. I have two daughters, and I can’t imagine that there is anything they could do that would make me not love them, how much greater is God’s perfect love for us?

A husband says that he loves his wife, but he beats her and cheats on her, does he love her? I think you’re saying that many people say that they love the lord and accept salvation, but their actions betray what is truly in their hearts. I agree, there are many that lie to themselves, and if your mission is to help people become more aware of how their actions, or inactions, reflect their true beliefs, then I wish you all the best.

I haven’t really given it much thought, but if actions expose beliefs, then while good acts don’t provide salvation, do they demonstrate an acceptance of God’s grace which leads to salvation? It seems to be the flip side of the same coin, but I very much dislike that it puts me/us in control rather than submitting to God. Consider my children again, I hope that they do things to show that they know that I love them, not that they do things (perhaps the same exact things) to earn my love; could a stranger do the same things and earn my love? The actions seem far less important than the intent, especially for the children.

My comment about adverse effects was referring to the question of your intent. I meant are you here evangelizing because you think our salvation is not assured. You addressed my question, so no need to dig into this minor miscommunication.

Church is important. It is a safe place to discuss faith, although it isn’t always a good place to debate faith. It is a place where we first learn to put our faith to work. This supportive environment helps to offset the constant bombardment of negative messages out in “the real world.” For lots of reasons I never fit into a church community as a child, and to this day I tend to avoid church. I don’t think that I need it to be saved, but I now wonder what I could have accomplished towards God’s purpose had I worked with those folks. The saying “all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing” comes to mind. Perhaps I should do more to help the church rather than walk away from it because of my history and its flaws.

Your note deserves a more thoughtful response, but I woke up and started writing this and now hate to discard it. I may amend it in the morning if time permits.

Jim

Thanks again for another thoughtful response.

Tim

[.429&H110]

We have had Confucius and the Lama
save Lao-Tse for another day...
how about Mohatma Ghandi?

"I like your Christ.
I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so
unlike your Christ."
MG

"Live like Jesus did,
and the world will listen."
MG

Had Ghandi sat on an American
railroad track, he would not have
said any of those things.
The Brits managed to stop.

[a danl]

We have had Confucius and the Lama
save Lao-Tse for another day...
how about Mohatma Ghandi?

"I like your Christ.
I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so
unlike your Christ."
MG

"Live like Jesus did,
and the world will listen."
MG

Had Ghandi sat on an American
railroad track, he would not have
said any of those things.
The Brits managed to stop.

who are you referring to

[.429&H110]

Mohatma Ghandi!
Martin Luther King Jr.channeled him.

If you sit on the tracks, the train will run over you. Ghandi hated the Brits. But the Brits stopped the train! Ghandi was the real deal, his daughter was corrupted. And shot.

I am weary of trolling. Enough. My church is Bible only. No cult. Cults are of people: the world. I would never leave my mind behind. Fellowship. If you don't want to hear the Word of God, there are people who do. Around the old folk's village are wandering people who only get home because the dog they are walking wants dinner. They are lost. Where are their children? Dogwalkers 80 years old from California. They fled, refugees from that evil. Glad I am to take them to church. Gonna needa bus soon. Debate heaven and hell, what are you doing to serve God? Where is your reality? Where is your joy? I dare you. Go do. Enough. Hebrews 5:11 Amen!

[Scott.M]

You make an interesting observation about "most organized religions." I'm old enough to have watched a few church and even denominational splits over the questions of are Christians to be more concerned about things of God or social engineering. Seems every religious organization begins with the right focus and grows to a peak. Then "liberal" wolves in leadership will take off their sheep skins and burrow into the headquarters and the downward spiral of spiritual corruption begins.

Religious "social club" libs first take control of individual congregations and then whole denominations with demonic ideas of self aggrandizement and works instead of continuing to cling to scripture until the breakaway pattern of church doctrinal corruption and renewal repeats itself.



Apparently not too interesting, since they were deleted. Typical hypocrisy. No wonder so many ask God to protect them from His followers.

[a danl]

Mohatma Ghandi!
Martin Luther King Jr.channeled him.

If you sit on the tracks, the train will run over you. Ghandi hated the Brits. But the Brits stopped the train! Ghandi was the real deal, his daughter was corrupted. And shot.

I am weary of trolling. Enough. My church is Bible only. No cult. Cults are of people: the world. I would never leave my mind behind. Fellowship. If you don't want to hear the Word of God, there are people who do. Around the old folk's village are wandering people who only get home because the dog they are walking wants dinner. They are lost. Where are their children? Dogwalkers 80 years old from California. They fled, refugees from that evil. Glad I am to take them to church. Gonna needa bus soon. Debate heaven and hell, what are you doing to serve God? Where is your reality? Where is your joy? I dare you. Go do. Enough. Hebrews 5:11 Amen!

us too, i agree our church is bible only. that's all anyone needs.

[Scott.M]

If Christ showed up today, we would kill him again.

[a danl]

If Christ showed up today, we would kill him again.

He will show up again and this time no one will do that, because he will come in his glory. He came humbly the first time and it won't happen that way again.

[dtknowles]

He will show up again and this time no one will do that, because he will come in his glory. He came humbly the first time and it won't happen that way again.

So you are a future seer. You know the future?

Tim

[ioon44]

Bible Prophecy tell us the future. Choose this day who you will serve. Joshua 24: 15 As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

[a danl]

So you are a future seer. You know the future?

Tim

yes tim, it's prophesy , do you know what that is?

[dtknowles]

Bible Prophecy tell us the future. Choose this day who you will serve. Joshua 24: 15 As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

So you don't know the future but you believe what you read in the bible. You believe in Prophecy. That some people are given by God the power to see the future?

This: "He will show up again and this time no one will do that, because he will come in his glory. He came humbly the first time and it won't happen that way again." is just telling us what is written in the Bible. Most of us have heard and read it many times. I don't believe it.

Tim

[a danl]

So you don't know the future but you believe what you read in the bible. You believe in Prophecy. That some people are given by God the power to see the future?

This: "He will show up again and this time no one will do that, because he will come in his glory. He came humbly the first time and it won't happen that way again." is just telling us what is written in the Bible. Most of us have heard and read it many times. I don't believe it.

Tim

tim, if you don't believe what's written in the bible , then no one on this site will be able to help you to understand anything. you are a lost soul because salvation can only be granted to you IF YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST AND THAT HE DIED ON THE CROSS AND SHED HIS BLOOD AS A FINAL SACRIFICE FOR SINS AND ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY FROM THE GRAVE . AND IS NOW SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD THE FATHER.

[1hole]

Danl has it right.

Spiritual Christians (and they're really the only kind of Christian) believe there is ONE path to God the Father and that's by clinging to his Son Jesus as Lord. Christians believe the 66 books of the Holy Bible are true largely because they're filled with prophecy that we know has become true in world history AND by His changes in our personal lives.

There is another spiritual school of course. Many "believes" there are multiple ways to some fuzzy kind of god but they have nothing but their own day dreams to base their beliefs on; people leaning on themselves is a very weak reed to rely on!

Some of them have formed their own "denomination", they call themselves Unitarian Universalists. They often present themselves as an alternative "Christian" type group of superior and much more enlightened people ... but there is nothing Christian - or superior - about them.

It's not difficult to detect in which group most people belong. We may pray a few into the fold but there's no way we can reason them in, they're much "too smart" for that. ??

[dtknowles]

tim, if you don't believe what's written in the bible , then no one on this site will be able to help you to understand anything. you are a lost soul because salvation can only be granted to you IF YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST AND THAT HE DIED ON THE CROSS AND SHED HIS BLOOD AS A FINAL SACRIFICE FOR SINS AND ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY FROM THE GRAVE . AND IS NOW SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD THE FATHER.

I am not interested in anyone on this site using the bible to understand anything. I am trying to enlighten people on this site about the need to be a good person and love and help others. Jesus would want you too and so don't a lot of others.

Tim

[a danl]

I am not interested in anyone on this site using the bible to understand anything. I am trying to enlighten people on this site about the need to be a good person and love and help others. Jesus would want you too and so don't a lot of others.

Tim

tim, you are soo blind. that is what christians are doing, you don't have to try and convince us about how Jesus has already taught us.

[dtknowles]

tim, you are soo blind. that is what christians are doing, you don't have to try and convince us about how Jesus has already taught us.

You are the one who is blind. Way too many "Christians" are not doing what Jesus taught and never have done much but look out for themselves.

Tim

[Txcowboy52]

When will people realize church is NOT the building! Did Christ not say, excuse my paraphrase, when two or more are gathered in my name I will be with them. The lord dwells in us all , remember the little voice that tells us right from wrong? Who do you think put that in us ?

[a danl]

You are the one who is blind. Way too many "Christians" are not doing what Jesus taught and never have done much but look out for themselves.

Tim

again tim, if they are not doing what Jesus taught then just maybe they are not christians. true christians will do what He taught and EVERYBODY will fail at some point and that's why we need a savior..tim, you're not a christian so you cannot be judging people by what you see in a person.

[dtknowles]

again tim, if they are not doing what Jesus taught then just maybe they are not christians. true christians will do what He taught and EVERYBODY will fail at some point and that's why we need a savior..tim, you're not a christian so you cannot be judging people by what you see in a person.

I can judge people by whatever I choose. Maybe since Christianity can't seem to get those people to behave better some other theology can do it. As long as they think their sins will be forgiven for just claiming Jesus as their savior they have no reason to reform.

Tim

[a danl]

I can judge people by whatever I choose. Maybe since Christianity can't seem to get those people to behave better some other theology can do it. As long as they think their sins will be forgiven for just claiming Jesus as their savior they have no reason to reform.

Tim

good by, tim i have nothing more to say

[1hole]

good by, tim i have nothing more to say

And another good try dies on its feet.

[.429&H110]

1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath
called you is holy,
so be ye holy in all manner
of conversations.
Amen.
Faith comes by hearing.

Going to church
doesn't make you a Christian
any more than
going to a garage
makes you a mechanic.

Live like Jesus did
and the world will listen
-Mahatma Ghandi

[dtknowles]

1 Peter 1:15
But as he which hath
called you is holy,
so be ye holy in all manner
of conversations.
Amen.
Faith comes by hearing.

Going to church
doesn't make you a Christian
any more than
going to a garage
makes you a mechanic.

Live like Jesus did
and the world will listen
-Mahatma Ghandi

Amen!