Powder type in LC '67 '06 Garand rounds?

[Maven]

All, While searching my ammo safe, I came across 8 .30-06 rounds in a Garand/M1clip (LC '67, mil. primer) As I didn't want to use the 150gr. FMJ's, I pulled them, thinking I could re-use the powder. I was expecting IMR 4895, but what I found was either IMR 3031 or IMR 4064 in shape (extruded), but the color was lighter (medium grey, ~the color of mech. pencil leads). Each case contained 44.9gr. Can anyone tell me what powder I have?

[Johnch]

Not sure what powder you have .
But they load most small arms ammo with a that meets guidelines set by the purchaser.

As powder supply changes the powder type changes .
It could be one of several US or imported powders .

All they are worryed about is that the loaded round go's so many fps , the flash is less than so much , the burn rate is at the proper rate and the accurey is good enough .

Johnch

[felix]

Maven, I think you have 4064 in those rounds. Why? Because I remember reading about some person getting a contract for 98,000 rounds of 308 using 168 Sierra match with 39 grains of 4064. That has stuck in my mind for all of these years as being somewhat of a suprise as being a request for an exact load. Usually, match rounds are customized by a vendor to make a certain group size within a range of circumstances. Not only that, the request was for a load which was, and still is, in my opinion on the light side. Uping the load 2 grains for a 3006 would be the same status quo, and using a 150 grainer would suggest adding another 3 grains. ... felix

[Maven]

Thanks Felix! As per my post, I thought it was either 3031 or 4064. In the next day or so I'll compare it to the 4064 I have on hand.

[Maven]

I finally got around to comparing the unknown powder (in the '67 LC brass destined for the Garand) to IMR 4064: The LC propellant was lighter in color and of lesser diameter to 4064. I'm thinking it is ~IMR 3031 as H/IMR 4198 are thinner still.

[trooperdan]

Mavin, army TM #43-0001-27 dated April '94 shows .30-06 ball as being loaded with 50 gr of IMR4895. That and .50 will get you a cup of coffee somewhere (maybe) but doesn't prove much as the arsenals would load non-canister powder, maybe with or with out deterrent coating, etc. They load to specification, according to each lot of components. The specs for ball ammo call for a MV of 2740 at 50,000PSI.


It was interesting to see what they load as a high pressure test load though; I won't quote the load here to avoid someone thinking it would be a recommended load but they used IMR4198, a boolit weight of about 172 to reach a pressure of 67,500 psi.

[Scota4570]

They did not use reloader's powders. You may have soemthing that looks and behaves like some particular reloaders powder but that is not the case. They load to a particular performance specifiaction with the powder as delivered. It is a bulk lot of extruded powder. It may or may not be the charge you would use with, say, 3031. It is what it takes to get the job done. Once they figure that out you have a lot number.

[fatnhappy]

Don't take this the wrong way, but ,

I'm sorry to even ask, what the HE double hockey sticks are you going to do with a measely 359 grains of an unknown powder, who's application apparently is now critical?


If it were up to me, I'd load 44.9 grains of it behind a 150 .30 bullet and bang away. :???:

[Maven]

fatnhappy, I happened to discover 8 rounds of LC '67 ball (in a Garand magazine) in the bottom of my ammo chest a few weeks ago. Yes, I could have gone to the range and fired it, but then I'd have to clean the Cu fouling from the bore, which I didn't particularly want to do at that time. I also didn't feel like throwing the powder away. I knew from the onset that it was a non-cannister grade powder, a milsurp if you will, I just didn't know exactly what its characteristics were. Since I happen to like milsurp powders and brass, especially LC, (It's the one I see most of.) I thought the risk of firing it (30gr.) with a 180gr. CB would be minimal and it was. We both know that given the concerns over "port pressure" in the gas-operated Garand, the powder was most certainly slower than IMR 4198 or IMR 3031 given the 44.9gr. charge/case. Since I wouldn't hesitate to use 29-30gr. IMR 3031 with CB's between 175-195gr. in a bolt action rifle, there was minimal risk using something akin to IMR 4064 or -4895. What ever that powder is, it is much better behaved than the oddball milsurp IMR 7383, which had no loading data accompanying the jugs I purchased.

[fatnhappy]

Ah. Makes sense now