Another newbie question Neck sizing for cast

[Bashby]

When resizing rifle cartridges for cast boolits, do you use a larger expander than what comes with the die set?

[Winger Ed.]

I cast for .30-06, .30-30, .308, and .45-70.
I use the standard die set and then a Lyman 'M' die that flares the case mouth like a pistol expander die does.

[Bazoo]

I do the same as Ed.

[Bashby]

I see a lot of people mentioning M dies, I’m not sure what that is. Lyman, right? Tried looking on their site for info but don’t see anything.

[Bazoo]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011246697

[Bashby]

I think I see now, it has an expander like what NOE makes for the Lee setup instead of an expander ball.

[toallmy]

Yep it may not be absolutely necessary , but it sure makes it a smother operation while trying to stuff a larger cast boolit in a resized case without smashing the case , or shaving the cast boolits .
A few different makers of similar devices are Lyman M- die , Lee powder through die , NOE expander plugs ......

[Kraschenbirn]

I think I see now, it has an expander like what NOE makes for the Lee setup instead of an expander ball.

Yup, that's it. I still have a couple of M dies racked above my bench but prefer the NOEs I've been using for the last couple of years. The NOE expanders are available in .001 increments making it easier to obtain an "interference fit" of my boolits without any resizing of the drive bands.

Bill

[Yooper003]

I have M- dies for most of the cartridgeS I load cast in but I still find the Lee universal neck expanding die used a lot.I keep it in its own press & it has got me through problems many times.

[FredBuddy]

I use the NOE expander plugs of the appropriate
larger size. The larger 'step' as some call it allows
me to start the boolit into the case much straighter
than the Lee uni-die, thereby reducing crooked seating
especially in the 30-30.

Run each round lightly into a Redding profile
crimp die results in each boolit maintaining the
size you intended for your barrel.

[JM7.7x58]

I use the NOE expander plugs. I size bullets to .311“. The lower section of my plug is .309”. So that gives me two thousandths neck tension.
JM

[Texas by God]

I've been getting good results by just chamfering the inside case neck for a long time. I'm not opposed to a flaring die, I just haven't needed one (so far).

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[waksupi]

I stick a pair of needle nose pliers in the case mouth, give a twist, and done. One size fits all.

[Texas by God]

I stick a pair of needle nose pliers in the case mouth, give a twist, and done. One size fits all.I can't tell if you are kidding. I think we are related.[emoji16]
I'll bet it works.

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[cwlongshot]

M-Die has been working wonders for DECADES.

Night Owl offers different sided spuds for the LEE tool. The LEE without them IS NOT the same but is a nice useable die if ya charge cases on the press as attaching a powder throw is easy.

CW

[Bazoo]

Don't touch my flaring pliers? I can see how that would work.

[mdi]

For my rifle and cast bullet reloading I have not "needed" and M die, but I think I have a 30 cal one. I flare the case mouth and with the interference fit and bullet BHN I use, I don't get any swaged or shaved bullets. Starting a bullet in the neck isn't at all difficult and this has worked for me.

Early on in my reloading, I used almost anything with a taper to flare my case mouths. I used long nose pliers, (aka needle nose but they ain't really), chisel/punch heads, tapered a couple brass rods, and even used a 30-06 case pushed and turned in a case mouth...

[gwpercle]

I think I see now, it has an expander like what NOE makes for the Lee setup instead of an expander ball.
Standard Die sets usually come set up to load J-word bullets which are smaller in diameter , 30 cal . J-word = .308 diameter ... everything is set to that diameter .
Now cast boolits , 30 cal . they are Larger and can be .309 , .310 , ,311 ...depending on rifle / bore conditions . There is no way for one set of dies to cover every option . You must flare the case mouth when loading a softer cast lead boolit , no way not to .The M-die and NOE M-die inserts are used to cover the larger cast boolits . The NOE insert / Lee Universal Expander Die set up is the best way to cover many different sizes .

Cowboy Action Dies being the exception ... these dies are designed to load cast lead boolits from the start and usually include some type of case neck expander (M-Die) in the set .
I know this is all complicated ... but hang in there in twenty or thirty years you will get it .
Gary

[Taterhead]

It has been alluded to, but an M die might or might not be the right tool.

What is an M profile expander? One with 2 different radii. One is larger than bullet diameter. It makes a cup-shaped flare in the case mouth to facilitate placing and seating of the bullet. It is different than a traditional bell-shaped flair, and many of us prefer it. The flair is usually the topic of much discussion about the purpose of a M die and the reason it is often recommended.

However the second radius is the shank that plunges down into the neck. It sets the interior diameter of the neck to a specific diameter. This often-overlooked dimension is critical for correct neck tension (interference fit). The problem with blanket statements such as "get an M die" is that the smaller radius might be too narrow for plus-sized cast bullets.

M expanders are typically dimensioned for jacketed bullets. So an M die with a .305-.306" shank might be inappropriate for a .310" bullet. Might be too narrow of a neck interior diameter. So a standard M die might not serve the purpose well.

The good folks at NOE have a great concept with their many sizes of M expander plugs.

It is worth noting that Redding and RCBS have delivered M profile expanders in their handgun sets for some time now. And in many calibers, RCBS dies can be retrofitted with "Cowboy" plugs to add a touch more neck ID for us cast bullet loaders.

Some M expanders. RCBS handgun, NOE plug and Lyman 22 cal. It is hard to see the M step on the Lyman (indicated with a pointer).

https://i.postimg.cc/FRK2kSvP/20190629-121006.jpg

[Conditor22]

I have NOE case neck/mouth expanders for ALL the calibers I shoot.

I started with the 9MM expander then a fellow CBer made me several "Lee powder thru expanders" with the NOE profile. I love them :)

I find that they help the boolit seat straighter and prevent downsizing of the boolits by the brass as they are seated.

This may not be kosher but I like using the same size expander plug as the boolit diameter I'm loading, the brass springs back after expanding .001 to .0015 and I find that's been plenty to firmly hold the boolit in the brass.

my 2¢

[Walks]

The needle nose pliers do work.
Learned that trick from My Dad. I usually use them to "round" out the neck of .38-40 & .44-40 Rifle brass. They sometimes get stepped on by stumble-footed igoramuses.
And you can "force" case mouth expansion with them. But only if you are really hard up and have to do it right now and can't wait for the mail to deliver an M-Die or N.O.E. setup.

[Ozark mike]

To answer the ops question i use lee dies including the powder thru Die i also try not to over expand the mouth it is said it can shorten case life

[15meter]

Quote Originally Posted by waksupi:

I stick a pair of needle nose pliers in the case mouth, give a twist, and done. One size fits all.



I can't tell if you are kidding. I think we are related.[emoji16]
I'll bet it works.

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I've done the same on experimental/first try loads, faster than setting up an M-die, a NOE die or a Lee die(I use all three). I've also used a center punch with a nice smooth tapered shank. I was more consistent with that.

Once I had made my mind up to load more of the same, I would go through the effort to set up a regular expanding die of some flavor.

[charlie b]

I just use the Lee universal die for my .308 loads. If you use gas checks then you probably do not need a flare, only a good camfer.

For pistols I use the powder through expanding die in Lee die sets. Adjust to get the flare I need.

If I needed to load larger diameter bullets then I'd get an 'M' type expander die (probably from NOE).

[Texas by God]

I should add that I only use gas check bullets in my chamfered brass; no plain base.

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