Taurus Experience: part 1.

[oldhenry]

In the interest of full disclosure I'm basically a revolver man: I only own 2 center fire automatics (both SR1911). My revolvers are S&W & Ruger. I have never owned a Taurus. I've heard good things & bad things about them and most of the bad things are CS/shipping charges related.

I'm fortunate to have my own range & a close family friend comes out to shoot with a new 4" blue Taurus Tracker in .44 magnum. He liked the size, weight & feel of the gun (had replaced grips with Hogues) & most of all he liked the price. After a brief shooting session he had the following complaints:
1. Rough action
2. Heavy trigger pull
3. Hammer dragging on the L. @ full cock & dragging on the R. when down.
4. Cylinder difficult to open

My examination before disassembly:
Cylinder gap=.006, end shake=.001, cylinder length would not allow #429421 boolits & rear sight not square with the front.

Rear sight problem traced to loose fit of retaining pin to rear sight (sight retaining pin fit to frame is correct). Finger pressure brings sight to correct position (replacement sight with correct hole size would solve the problem).

Disassembly Impressions:

1. Front side plate screw was loose (should have been a warning but went unheeded)
2. All moving parts under the side plate were well made & had an excellent finish (no tool marks).
3. The mechanism seems to be a combination of S&W type hammer & trigger with a Ruger type hammer spring & strut. The trigger return spring was situated similar to S&W but utilized a Ruger type strut rather than the S&W return spring housing. The transfer bar was almost identical to the Ruger SA, except it is smaller & better finished. The transfer bar connection to the trigger seemed to be a closer fit than the Ruger SA.
4. All interior surfaces (frame & side plate) were finished well ( every bit as good as S&W).

My efforts to correct complaints:
1. Hammer flats stoned to a level surface & shimmed (.008 to L & .005 to R,).
2. Wolfe hammer (11 lb.) & trigger (10 lb.) springs installed.
3. Interior surfaces lightly stoned.
4. Hammer notch reduced to .019
Results: smooth action & a trigger that would hold a 4.5 lb. weight, but would not hold a 4.75 lb. weight. Not a target trigger, but smooth.

It was then that I discovered that I should have tackled the #4 complaint 1st. (the difficulty in opening cylinder)

PHOTOS:
#1: Before reassembly with side plate removed
#2: Side plate front screw. Note it differs from S&W. It is a 3 piece arrangement: hollow screw, spring & plunger.
#3: Close-up of crane end. Note front screw plunger rides on edge of the "V" rather than the center.
#4: Side view with side plate removed & crane in place. "V" in crane not centered.
#5: Sketch of the problem: A on left shows misalignment described above. B shows proper relationship

The misalignment can only be corrected with a properly fitted crane. The technician that assembled this gun should have recognized this and probably did, but made the crane pass inspection by not torqueing the front side plate screw properly. The spring would coil bind under pressure & make the plunger bare down on the slope of the "V" notch rather than bottom of the "V" notch if torqued correctly.

I'm running out of room here & will continue on another page: Taurus Experience : Part 2

[oldhenry]

When I discussed the problem with the owner I told him the only remedy would be to return the gun to Taurus.

I phoned Taurus. An automated answering system put me on hold & while on hold there was Spanish type guitar music. Since I knew Taurus HQ was in Brazil I didn't know what to expect.

After a 3 or 4 minute hold I got to talk with Cindy in CS. As it turns out Taurus has a facility in Bainbridge, GA which is about 50 miles South of me. Cindy was extremely friendly, knowledgeable & patient. As it turns out she was a GRITS (Girl Raised In The South). She listened to my entire story and agreed that the crane should have been fitted to allow the plunger of the front screw to contact the bottom of the "V". I made notes & the following is what I understand,

If the owner ships the gun to Taurus, the owner must pay shipping cost both ways.

If the dealer ships the gun to Taurus, the shipping charges will be paid by Taurus both ways.

There will be a "bench charge" of $35.00 which will cover the cost of one (1) part & will renew the warranty.

If a bench charge of $50.00 is paid the number of parts needed is unlimited & the warranty will be renewed

I voided the warranty when I removed the side plate.

Taurus will remove & retain the shims, any aftermarket part & any part that I have altered in any way (there goes the trigger/action job).

My friend that owns the gun does not want to send it back because all the work I've invested will be removed. He does things for me & I told him I'd get the returned gun back as smooth as it is now. I never planned to charge him anyway.

If he decides to return it to Taurus, I'll let this post know the turn around time.

Henry

P.S. The service I received from Cindy in CS @ Taurus is every bit equal to Ruger. It could not have been better.

[William Yanda]

"
If the owner ships the gun to Taurus, the owner must pay shipping cost both ways.

If the dealer ships the gun to Taurus, the shipping charges will be paid by Taurus both ways.

There will be a "bench charge" of $35.00 which will cover the cost of one (1) part & will renew the warranty.

If a bench charge of $50.00 is paid the number of parts needed is unlimited & the warranty will be renewed

I voided the warranty when I removed the side plate.

Taurus will remove & retain the shims, any aftermarket part & any part that I have altered in any way (there goes the trigger/action job)."

Looking to venture into .357 country, I saw Ruger, S & W, and Taurus, and a handful of other mfrs. when I looked on Gunbroker. I wondered whether or not to consider Taurus. Now I know, NOT. Thanks

[BigAlofPa.]

I have a tracker 357. The rear sight blade was wobbly when i got it. Taurus sent me a new one 6 months later. This was when they were moving. I put lock-tite on it. Solved the problem. New site is still in my parts box. One day i was out shooting the tracker and my Ruger GP 100. And my RIA 38 special. I had them on the bench at the range. And took a good look at the 3. You can tell the build quality differences between the 3.

[Markopolo]

well, i know the stories. i still love my Model 44 from taurus. never groaned at me for anything. just does what I tell it to do. trigger is good. it lives on a steady diet of lee 310's.... been carrying the gun 6months out of the year for over 20 years in heavy bear country.. had an opportunity to take down an un-ruley bear this spring.. i like it.

[contender1]

As a long time revolver fan,, I have a lot of experience with different manufacturers & their guns. And while I'm a die-hard Ruger fan,, I also recognize the FACT that there are many top-notch handguns from other makers.
I also own other brands too.

I'm also the chairman of our local FoNRA chapter,, & have been with the committee for almost 20 years. Taurus has been involved with that program often, so I've seen a lot of new ones there too. My local gunsmith handles all our FFL work for these events.

In my experience,, it's a hit or miss proposition when it comes to their quality. On average,, we have had to return about 1/3 or more of the NEW guns from them,, due to issues in operation. Our gunsmith makes it a point to inspect the workings of all Taurus handguns BEFORE we put them out for an event. I've seen enough problems,, to shy away from them. Plus,, I own a gun range,, (private,, but we do shoot USPSA there,) and I get to see a LOT of handguns. I almost never see a Taurus show up. And the few that have been there,, if the shooter continues shooting USPSA,, has always found a different gun to be able to enjoy shooting USPSA. I have a few friends who own a few Taurus handguns,, and about 1/2 of them have had issues of one kind or another.

And on the other hand,, I also have friends who own a Taurus of one flavor or another,, and have never had any problems. But in MY simple, opinion,, I'll pass on then in general,, preferring to spend my money elsewhere.

[henryinpanama]

I've owned 5 Taurus (Tauri?), model 85, PT728, Spectrum, PT111-G2, and G2S. The revolver had a decent trigger, and never gave a bit of trouble. Both the .380s had terrible triggers and were ammunition finicky. I sold the PT-111 to buy the G2S, and neither has ever had a malfunction. My wife recently fired about 600 rounds through the G2S, about half of which were handloads with no misfires, FTF or FTE. I'm happy with the 85 and G2 models, but if I ever want another .380, I'll go with another brand.

[oldhenry]

I made several false starts before I finally wrote this thread. I didn't want to come across as anti Taurus. My intention was to give an accurate description of my contact with a Taurus product.

Now that the thread is posted, I'll now give my opinion based on what I've seen.

1. The component parts that I've seen are of very high quality. I do not know the process used to produce them, but would congratulate Taurus for that end result.
2. The problem looks to come from the "build" process.

If I was running the Bainbridge, GA facility I'd implement the following:
1. Key each tech to the ser. # of the gun & very quickly a pattern would develop showing which tech produces a trouble free product & which is responsible for more comebacks. I'd pay the good techs more & promote from that pool.

2. I'd raise wholesale price a few dollars & implement Ruger's policy of sending mailing labels for returns.

3. I'd use the additional wholesale dollars to halt the "Bench Charge".

4. I'd put Cindy in charge of customer service.

These are common sense measures that could change the entire face of Taurus.

My 2 cents worth.
Henry

[FergusonTO35]

My Taurus 856 is a great gun except for the heavy and creepy single action pull. I really don't think it is something they would fix either, so I got a Wolff spring kit and let my 'smith work some magic on it. Hopefully it will come back at least as good as a new Ruger or low end S&W.

[tankgunner59]

I have had my Taurus Model 627 Tracker in 357 magnum, 6 1/2 inch barrel for several years now and have not had any problems with it. My trigger pull is not heavy at all. (I don't have a trigger pull gauge) The action and trigger are smooth, and the timing is perfect. I'm sorry to hear all of the trouble had with your friends.

[charlie b]

I've only had two Taurus, 2003 model 85 (.38spl) and 1996 model 805 (.357). They both had great triggers right out of the box. Fact is, the little 805 that I tried at the gun shop is the reason I bought it. Had the best trigger of all the pistols in the shop.

The little .357 did well, right up until the cylinder locked up when firing magnums. When I took off the side plate I found a screw had worked loose. Locktited all of them and reassembled. Never missed a beat since. My brother-in-law has it now so it doesn't get fired much.

The 85 never had a problem.

Would I buy another? I tried once but could not get one so got an SP101 instead. Trigger not quite as good but not bad.

Now what would I buy? Probably another semi-auto :)

[Geezer in NH]

We stopped selling Taurus in our shop at least 15 years ago. Big problems of out of spec and 0% warranty support. How many times can you return the same firearm for a barrel with the front sight out 15 degrees and keep getting it back unfixed.

To me they are JUNK!

[engineer401]

I have had my Taurus Model 627 Tracker in 357 magnum, 6 1/2 inch barrel for several years now and have not had any problems with it. My trigger pull is not heavy at all. (I don't have a trigger pull gauge) The action and trigger are smooth, and the timing is perfect. I'm sorry to hear all of the trouble had with your friends.

I’ve also had good luck with the 627. I replaced the grips as I really dislike the factory ones. They’re pretty good for what you pay.

[Idaho45guy]

If I was running the Bainbridge, GA facility I'd implement the following:
1. Key each tech to the ser. # of the gun & very quickly a pattern would develop showing which tech produces a trouble free product & which is responsible for more comebacks. I'd pay the good techs more & promote from that pool.


Henry

When I was working at Ruger, the serial numbers were the last thing to go on a pistol, using laser etching.

Besides, in today's business climate, holding anyone accountable or telling them they are doing something wrong is getting extremely rare. Seriously. It's just not done since HR doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I've only bought one Taurus pistol; a G2c. Not bad, but not great. Their current warranty position and practices on a gun with a dubious reputation precludes me from ever spending over $200 for ANY Taurus product.

[Petrol & Powder]

I stopped playing in the Taurus sandbox years ago and I have no intention of returning to that sandbox.
Taurus' quality is hit or miss and that's enough to push me towards other manufacturers.
The problem isn't that Taurus guns are always bad, they are not always bad. The problem is they are sometimes bad and it's just not worth the risk to me for the slight possible savings in initial cost.

[FergusonTO35]

If Ruger or S&W had a six shot .38 snubnose that didn't weigh a ton I would have bought one. They don't so Taurus got my money that time.

[Petrol & Powder]

If Ruger or S&W had a six shot .38 snubnose that didn't weigh a ton I would have bought one. They don't so Taurus got my money that time.

If that 6th round is a deal-breaker, you can still find S&W Model 12's and Colt Cobra's & Agent's but you'll pay for them.

I can't speak to the Taurus Model 856 (6 round cylinder) but I will say the old Taurus Model 85 (5 shot snubnose) was one of the few Taurus guns that they consistently got right.

The old Model 85's gave good service. Why Taurus couldn't replicate that build quality on all of their guns is a mystery to me.

[William Yanda]

"precludes me from ever spending over $200 for ANY Taurus product."

Well, maybe $150. But at that price I realize I am self warrantying the gun.

[Ozark mike]

Its amazing what passes inspection these days. The last mill i worked at was a post mill and we had a certain percentage of junk that was allowed to be bundled in with the good the problem was the owner who was a piece of crap wanted us to make sure we were sending that exact number out not less but throw as much crap in as we could get away with i constantly butted heads with the idiots running the place because my units that left that place contained little defects i always ran my stuff to the next size or culled it. i quit because i was to the point of burying someone who worked there

[FergusonTO35]

If that 6th round is a deal-breaker, you can still find S&W Model 12's and Colt Cobra's & Agent's but you'll pay for them.

I can't speak to the Taurus Model 856 (6 round cylinder) but I will say the old Taurus Model 85 (5 shot snubnose) was one of the few Taurus guns that they consistently got right.

The old Model 85's gave good service. Why Taurus couldn't replicate that build quality on all of their guns is a mystery to me.

I already have a couple of small five shooters and like them very much. What I wanted was something between a J and K frame size, and I think that size of a gun should have six rounds. I also don't want to carry a semi-collectible gun on the farm. My local shop sold tons of 85's and very few of them came back. Yes, Taurus got that one right.

[Petrol & Powder]

I already have a couple of small five shooters and like them very much. What I wanted was something between a J and K frame size, and I think that size of a gun should have six rounds. I also don't want to carry a semi-collectible gun on the farm. My local shop sold tons of 85's and very few of them came back. Yes, Taurus got that one right.

I hear you loud & clear. There is sort of a gap in between the J and K frame sized snubnose revolvers.
The SP101 fits in that gap but it is a five shot and it's heavy for its size (although a great gun)
The old Colt D-frames fit in that range perfectly and had 6 round cylinders, but as you correctly point out - they are now in the collectable status or approaching collectable status.
A 2" S&W model 12 is lighter than a 2" model 10 or model 64, but exactly the same size and far more expensive.

I've always found the snubnose K-frames to be a little easier to shoot than the snubnose J-frames, probably because there's just a little more gun to hang onto. That 6th round wasn't important to me and was just sort of a bonus. For pocket carry the DAO J-frames win that competition hands down.

As for the Taurus Model 85, Taurus got that one right. I've seen many examples soldier on for decades without a hint of a problem.

[FergusonTO35]

Agree with everything you posted here. Since the great .32 S&W Long has now mostly faded away, there is also a yawning gap between .22 rimfire and .38 Special in revolvers. I always thought the .32 Long was a great do it all revolver. Accurate, easy to shoot, fairly compact, strong enough for anything short of deer size game.

[Petrol & Powder]

I got out of the 32 game and wished I hadn't. The 32 S&W Long is a useful cartridge. Not a powerhouse but accurate and useful for small game. The ability to reload the 32 S&W Long, the fact that it was easy on powder and lead and the lightweight ammo, made it great. When the 32 H&R Mag came along, I (incorrectly) thought that would be the pinnacle of 32 performance.
The 32 does allow you to fit 6 rounds in a small cylinder diameter.

[leadhead]

I have a new 85 and have really not shot it that much, but it seems to be accurate
and work as it should. I also bought a used model 441 .44 special at a gun
show a few years ago that I've shot a lot and it is very accurate and has caused
me no problems at all. Shoot all cast in it, and is one of my favorite revolvers
including my S&W 586 4".
Denny
Denny

[Drm50]

I had a Taurus once, never got past part #1.

[Laguna Freak]

I thought all of these post were interesting because I have a Raging Bull 444 6.5” barrel in stainless that I bought in about 1998. It is a fabulous 44 magnum that has given me zero problems. Hot so-called Desert Eagle HP loads produce little or no muzzle flip and 2.5” groups at 50 yards with factory sights from a rest. Yes, factory hammer and trigger return springs are heavy. I clipped 2 coils off the hammer and 1.5 off the trigger return. Voila! Yes, like almost every other wheel gun mfr, Taurus undersizes the cylinder throats. Something I just recently learned about after I began investigating the “myths” surrounding cast boolits and the evil leading they produce. Long story short, after 20+ years of ownership I am still well pleased with my Taurus and would confidently recommend the Raging Bull to anyone who wanted a large frame revolver.

[koyote]

I'm currently suffering a bit of a problem with ruger. Which is sort of on topic.

I own one Taurus. an older model 82. My girl HAD a taurus that never worked right and I didn't feel like taking it apart (in retrospect I should have) - so we traded it off. It was a "shoots 38 fine, but cylinder advance sometimes jams with .357 recoil" so I probably could have dug in. But it was a fugly full size frame 6 shot .357 snubbie and just ... fugly.

I have helped several local friends analyze and measure taurus revolvers before purchase and it seems like it's 50/50.

I can't see justifying "voided warranty" for discovering a problem.

But a good taurus does seem to run forever. that little model 10 type M82 just goes and goes and goes. no complaints.

I tend to NOT take my feelers and stuff to a gun store to buy a ruger or S&W. But I break them out for other guns.......Which Is changing NOW. I just got a ruger sp101 in .327. Only one available anywhere for hundreds of miles. It's not good. different topic, but if I wasn't going to have to wait a year for resolution, I'd send it in. As is, I will just tune it and make it run right. (but .011 cylinder gap on a brand new revolver! and the toolmarks on the top strap! and how the heck did they cut the top strap off so much that it shoots 8 inches below center hold at 10 yards with all ammo?!?! (and yeah, I checked the front sight height versus my other SP101s and that part is fine. the top strap channel has actual chatter marks, though. Panic production is rough, I get that .... but ruger shouldn't be imitating remington))

Anyway- I would not be surprised to see that with taurus - and that story is common enough that I would check to be sure before taking the gun home. It's not generally a concern I have with some other companies

[koyote]

I already have a couple of small five shooters and like them very much. What I wanted was something between a J and K frame size, and I think that size of a gun should have six rounds. I also don't want to carry a semi-collectible gun on the farm. My local shop sold tons of 85's and very few of them came back. Yes, Taurus got that one right.

M82s, when they turn up, are generally pretty decently priced.

I'm a big fan of .32 based stuff, but it's really hard to beat the taurus 82 as a 6 shot .38 on a budget.

[FergusonTO35]

Taurus has been making their core .38 and .357 revolvers forever and they seem to put more care into them than others. They do get alot of police and military use south of the border.

[MT Gianni]

M82s, when they turn up, are generally pretty decently priced.

I'm a big fan of .32 based stuff, but it's really hard to beat the taurus 82 as a 6 shot .38 on a budget.

The 32 H&R Charter Arms Professional for $394 out the door in Butte, MT sure beats it. It is also a 7 shot.

[koyote]

welll..... aside from the fact that I paid $200 OTD for the M82 - I'd love to have a charter .32H&R. none around here, alas.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Having read several of these "Taurus quality" -threads over the years, and having once been in business and sold several dozen of them, I've come to the conclusion that their quality problems over the years have run in phases. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes in the middle and about average for any pistol company. Don't forget that S&W has also had quality problems, and threads concerning their quality seem to run just as long. I can't add an up to date opinion, because the 4 that I own (2 Mod. 85s, 1 Mod. 96, 1 5-shot .44 Spec.) have been in my accumulation for about 35 years, and all are great revolvers. I wouldn't buy any revolver sight-unseen, too many potential problems, especially for used revolvers; but, if I felt the need to buy a Taurus I'd inspect it closely, if possible choose from among several that the dealer had in stock, and feel I bought a good gun when I carried it out the door.

[swheeler]

I have and still shoot quite often a SS M65 4", never a problem with it for the last 20 or so years. It sits in Safari Land black leather with thumb snap, gets carried 3 to 1 more than my Ruger BH357.

[FergusonTO35]

My 856 rocks now that the gunsmith has installed the Wolff springs and massaged the innards a bit. Total cost is still well under that of a bone stock J frame or LCR.

[Laguna Freak]

Edit; cylinder to barrel measures 0.0025” at rest with the feeler gauge. The 0.0025” gauge will not slide between cylinder and barrel in full lock-up. I think this “fit and finish” image of my Raging Bull speaks volumes. It has much to do with her accuracy.
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