bedbugbilly
08-13-2020, 05:38 PM
I am hoping that someone on here can help give me some advice on a Pietta 1860 Army C & Ball revolver that I recently acquired for a “project gun”. I have no issues on working on rifles, but I am not a “Pistol Smith” – but I know there are some on here who are familiar working on revolvers and who know what they are doing. I have owned many C & B revolvers over the years, Uberti, Pietta, ASM and several other brands – and I guess I was lucky as I never had to have any work done on them with the exception of one, and I had a good friend at the time (now deceased) who was good at pistol work and he got it all tune up for me. I figured it was time to get familiar with doing some tune up work on a C & B revolver so it’s time to start my “education” and I figured this pistol would be a good one to learn on. I will mention that I have read Larsen Petifogger’s “Tuning The Pietta Cap and Ball” as well as some threads on this site but it’s going to be a matter of rolling up my sleeves and getting in to it and learning by doing. I am in hopes that by describing the issues with this revolver, someone with experience in tuning them up can possibly tell me what to look for as well as what internal parts I will need to locate to fix it. So here goes . . .
The Revolver:
Pietta 1860 Army – date code of “BP” which puts it as made in 2001. I have no idea of how many owners this revolver has gone through – the bore is pretty much pristine as are the chambers. It shows outside wear – my guess is possibly a re-enactor’s pistol at some point but overall, they kept it pretty clean. Some minor pitting on the right side on the barrel near the wedge area – this is one of the first pistols I have had where the wedge actually has the wedge spring in the profile it is supposed to have. Steel backstrap/brass trigger guard and cut for stock. My plans are that once I have the action fixed, I will strip the finish, remove the Pietta billboard signs on the barrel and then give the pistol an “antique finish”. The once piece grip is nice walnut so I may strip them, work them down to fit the grip frame (they are “proud” of the metal overall) and either distress/antique them or possibly opt for a set of aged faux ivory grips.
Overall, the screw heads on the frame look good – no buggered slots – but the screws holding the brass trigger guard on to the frame have obviously been in and out a number of times as the slots show it. So, it makes me wonder if someone “tuned” the revolver that didn’t know what they were doing.
So, I will try and describe what is going on in the hopes that it may provide an idea as to what the issue/s is/are.
A. When the hammer is pulled back, you hear the distinct half cock click and the full cock click. I have to put my ear close to the cylinder/frame to hear the click right after the half cock click where the bolt is tapping the cylinder. So, instead of the distinctive Colt 3 click cocking, the second click where the bolt taps the cylinder is very light.
B. On the cylinder, the bolt is making a slight drag line on the scooped “approach” adjacent to the rectangular slot in the cylinder where the bolt fits in. It does not appear that the bolt is “peening” the rectangular notch.
C. When the hammer is pulled back to begin the cocking sequence, the cylinder rotates and when fully cocked, the cylinder cannot be turned by hand (as in by-passing the bolt) but the “lock up” is quite sloppy. If you were to hold the pistol with the butt towards your body and the muzzle pointed away from your body and look down on the top of the revolver, the nipple slot in the cylinder appears to line up with the hammer slot, but, if you have the pistol cocked and reach down, the cylinder will rotate in the opposite direction of normal cylinder rotation so that the nipple slot in the cylinder is offset from the hammer slot by approximately 1/8”. i.e. the cylinder chamber would be offset from the bore. This occurs the same for each chamber.
I am no expert, but my question would be, “on full cock, is the bolt not extending up into the bolt slot in the cylinder far enough to “lock” the cylinder so that the chamber is in line with the bore”?” and, if so, why?
Does the “pawl” (if my terms are correct) that pushes on the notches at the rear of the cylinder to advance and index the cylinder to the next chamber, when on full cock is it still pushing on the rear ratchet of the cylinder putting side pressure on the bolt (which I presume is all the way into the bolt notch when on full cock) to lock up the cylinder in place or does it retract once the hammer is on full cock?
Something is really “amiss” on this pistol to allow the cylinder to rotate out of time by about 1/8” when in full cock – i.e. the cylinder be able to rotate 1/8” when it should be locked up - so should I be looking for a complete set of new internal parts for this pistol? I have also read that the bolt cam on a hammer can get worn or mis-adjusted by someone who does not know what they are doing, so, should I also be looking for a new hammer to replace the one on this pistol? I’m not worried about having spare parts on hand as I’m sure that once I can get this Pietta fixed, I’ll probably be looking for more “project” pieces that I might be able to use them on – I’d rather have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.
I have not torn this pistol down yet as I am waiting on a new set of decent hollow ground screwdriver bits, a set of honing stones and a set of small files – both regular and diamond. I know there is a “fix” for this pistol as it is too good not to fix so it operates correctly. Right now, if I know what parts I should be looking for, I can start trying to find them as, because of the virus issue, etc., I have a feeling that supplies will be limited from Italy for quite some time. Any suggestions or ideas of what to look for as far as what is out of whack on this pistol would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
The Revolver:
Pietta 1860 Army – date code of “BP” which puts it as made in 2001. I have no idea of how many owners this revolver has gone through – the bore is pretty much pristine as are the chambers. It shows outside wear – my guess is possibly a re-enactor’s pistol at some point but overall, they kept it pretty clean. Some minor pitting on the right side on the barrel near the wedge area – this is one of the first pistols I have had where the wedge actually has the wedge spring in the profile it is supposed to have. Steel backstrap/brass trigger guard and cut for stock. My plans are that once I have the action fixed, I will strip the finish, remove the Pietta billboard signs on the barrel and then give the pistol an “antique finish”. The once piece grip is nice walnut so I may strip them, work them down to fit the grip frame (they are “proud” of the metal overall) and either distress/antique them or possibly opt for a set of aged faux ivory grips.
Overall, the screw heads on the frame look good – no buggered slots – but the screws holding the brass trigger guard on to the frame have obviously been in and out a number of times as the slots show it. So, it makes me wonder if someone “tuned” the revolver that didn’t know what they were doing.
So, I will try and describe what is going on in the hopes that it may provide an idea as to what the issue/s is/are.
A. When the hammer is pulled back, you hear the distinct half cock click and the full cock click. I have to put my ear close to the cylinder/frame to hear the click right after the half cock click where the bolt is tapping the cylinder. So, instead of the distinctive Colt 3 click cocking, the second click where the bolt taps the cylinder is very light.
B. On the cylinder, the bolt is making a slight drag line on the scooped “approach” adjacent to the rectangular slot in the cylinder where the bolt fits in. It does not appear that the bolt is “peening” the rectangular notch.
C. When the hammer is pulled back to begin the cocking sequence, the cylinder rotates and when fully cocked, the cylinder cannot be turned by hand (as in by-passing the bolt) but the “lock up” is quite sloppy. If you were to hold the pistol with the butt towards your body and the muzzle pointed away from your body and look down on the top of the revolver, the nipple slot in the cylinder appears to line up with the hammer slot, but, if you have the pistol cocked and reach down, the cylinder will rotate in the opposite direction of normal cylinder rotation so that the nipple slot in the cylinder is offset from the hammer slot by approximately 1/8”. i.e. the cylinder chamber would be offset from the bore. This occurs the same for each chamber.
I am no expert, but my question would be, “on full cock, is the bolt not extending up into the bolt slot in the cylinder far enough to “lock” the cylinder so that the chamber is in line with the bore”?” and, if so, why?
Does the “pawl” (if my terms are correct) that pushes on the notches at the rear of the cylinder to advance and index the cylinder to the next chamber, when on full cock is it still pushing on the rear ratchet of the cylinder putting side pressure on the bolt (which I presume is all the way into the bolt notch when on full cock) to lock up the cylinder in place or does it retract once the hammer is on full cock?
Something is really “amiss” on this pistol to allow the cylinder to rotate out of time by about 1/8” when in full cock – i.e. the cylinder be able to rotate 1/8” when it should be locked up - so should I be looking for a complete set of new internal parts for this pistol? I have also read that the bolt cam on a hammer can get worn or mis-adjusted by someone who does not know what they are doing, so, should I also be looking for a new hammer to replace the one on this pistol? I’m not worried about having spare parts on hand as I’m sure that once I can get this Pietta fixed, I’ll probably be looking for more “project” pieces that I might be able to use them on – I’d rather have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.
I have not torn this pistol down yet as I am waiting on a new set of decent hollow ground screwdriver bits, a set of honing stones and a set of small files – both regular and diamond. I know there is a “fix” for this pistol as it is too good not to fix so it operates correctly. Right now, if I know what parts I should be looking for, I can start trying to find them as, because of the virus issue, etc., I have a feeling that supplies will be limited from Italy for quite some time. Any suggestions or ideas of what to look for as far as what is out of whack on this pistol would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!