Sizing and Lubing Question

[GoBig]

I'm getting set up to cast for and reload for my new to me 94 Winchester in 32 WS. I've always just used LLA on pistol bullets before but I'm planning to size these to .323 and seat a gas check before pan lubing with Ben's Red that I will make this weekend or next. Do I need to tumble lube the bullets before sizing, then pan lube? I'm assuming so, but I see no mention of it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You don't need to lube boolits when sizing and seating/crimping GCs...But it does make it easier.
Some have reported having problems sizing naked boolits, including leading up the die...but I haven't.
Another thing I've tried is running one lubed boolit through a size die, then run 5 or 10 naked boolits...or until sizing becomes difficult...then run another lubed boolit through...REPEAT...

[Ozark mike]

Just pan lube and size the lube does make it easier to push thru the die

[GoBig]

Just pan lube and size the lube does make it easier to push thru the die

I thought about that, but wouldn't that be fairly messy? I suppose not if I use a cake cutter that fits well.

JonB, I will try your method as well. See which is less PITA for me.

[lar45]

Be careful and go slow on heating up your Ben's Red, it can scorch easily and the smell is very hard to get out of the shop. It's a great lube, just don't get it too hot.

[Ozark mike]

I thought about that, but wouldn't that be fairly messy? I suppose not if I use a cake cutter that fits well.

JonB, I will try your method as well. See which is less PITA for me.

A little most clumps up on the bottom of the die and around the plunger no big deal to remove

[Castaway]

Lee suggests tumble lubing prior to sizing and seating gas check

[Minerat]

I have a carmex jar with some wheel bearing grease in it and use just get a little on my index finger and thumb and roll every 3rd or 4th bullet between them before sizing. It then cleans off with mineral spirits before PCing.

[greenjoytj]

Why not fill your Lubri-sizer with the Ben’s Red lube so you can size, lube and gas check seat all in one pass through the Lubri-sizer.

[Ozark mike]

I'm thinking he is using the lee push thru setup since he is pan lubing correct me if im wrong

[Minerat]

I agree, I assumed he was using Lee also.

[greenjoytj]

I have experimented with a couple of those LEE push through sizing dies.
I know the instructions for using the die says to pre lube the bullets with the LEE Liquid Alox but I don’t use LLA. I just dampened one of those fuzzy ball daubers on a wire handle with JoJoba oil (compatible with my Emmerts lube) and pushed the dauber up into the die, then sized a bullet.
I lubed the die for every other bullet. Those dies do work, except if the bullet is overly large then huge finning occurs. Big flanges of lead smeared beyond the bullet base.
Sometimes I had to flip the bullet and send it up the die base first to prevent the finning, but then the crimp groove was usually smeared shut. Don’t buy bullet molds that claim their good for .452” & .454” because such a mold (SAECO) will drop at .456”+. Squashing these pill to .452” displaces too much lead.

[gwpercle]

I thought about that, but wouldn't that be fairly messy? I suppose not if I use a cake cutter that fits well.

JonB, I will try your method as well. See which is less PITA for me.

The best money I ever spent was on a Lyman 450 lube/sizer .
I went the tumble lube ...no go ...pan lubing ...messy ...got tired of all the song and dance .
Truth is ... One cycle of the lever ...seats the gas check , sizes the boolit and fills the lube grooves...
Lever down , tweak the lube pressure , lever up ...done...boolit ready to shoot.
Start saving your monies and get a lube sizer ....saves you so much time and mess it isn't funny.

Make up Ben's Red and pour it into the reservoir ...ready to go!
Gary

[JM7.7x58]

How fast do you intend to push these bullets? I’ve had good results with two coats 45/45/10, and a gas check in my 30-06, with the classic 16gr of Alliant 2400.

If you aren’t pushing these very hard you could thin your Alox for a light first coat. Then size and install your gas checks. Then do a second coating.

JM

[mdi]

I have been pan lubing and sizing in a Lee Push Through die for 7 calibers for quite a while. Additional lube for sizing after pan lubing isn't necessary. Yes, the excess lube gets on the mouth of the die, but isn't so bad as to force me to use other methods. After I size a bunch of pan lubed bullets I just drop the die in a container of mineral spirits...

When starting any reloading or casting method, think about how it will work for you, and don't try to fix problems before they happen. "Messy" has a different meaning for almost everybody and affects each person differently. I've been a machinist/mechanic all my life and plain messy to me may be impossible, horrendous to someone else...

[GoBig]

I'm thinking he is using the lee push thru setup since he is pan lubing correct me if im wrong

Correct. I'm pan lubing and Lee sizing because I have no lubesizer, the cost for one is currently prohibitive for me. Perhaps if I find a good deal somewhere down the line.


How fast do you intend to push these bullets? I’ve had good results with two coats 45/45/10, and a gas check in my 30-06, with the classic 16gr of Alliant 2400.

If you aren’t pushing these very hard you could thin your Alox for a light first coat. Then size and install your gas checks. Then do a second coating.

JM

I plan to try for full factory velocities in the 32 Special, 2200ish with an RCBS 170-FN. I'm also setting up to use a 311284 in my 30-06, not sure a reasonable goal for that one, perhaps 2200 here as well. I'm new to cast bullets in rifle and in reading the threads on the 30XCB it seems my 10 twist barrel might hold my velocities back due to spin rate. Again, just learning. I just know I'm not super happy with alox. Maybe I'll thin it out.


When starting any reloading or casting method, think about how it will work for you, and don't try to fix problems before they happen. "Messy" has a different meaning for almost everybody and affects each person differently. I've been a machinist/mechanic all my life and plain messy to me may be impossible, horrendous to someone else...
I'm not worried about the die getting messy so much as getting lube smeared all up the nose of the bullet and then having to clean it off then and there or let it gum up my seating die and then clean it off. I'll give it a shot. Cut the bullets from the lube cake, push on gas check, size and load. I think your advice to not get ahead of myself solving problems I don't yet have sounds reasonable.

I thank everyone for their replies.

[Ozark mike]

I pan lube because i dont want the cost to get out of hand. Some go nuts with equipment more power to em but at the same time there ammo is gonna cost more per rnd than mine. As far as lube on your lead i drilled my seat plug in case lube does get up there it can cause ya to seat to deep which is really bad but ya probably knew that

[GoBig]

Haha, being cheap was the subtext to pan lubing. Same with scrounging up and melting down scrap lead and wheel weights. I've got more time than money.
I'll be making these on a single stage press. I can just swab the die once in a while. I foresee modifying it anyways, it came with a rounded seating stem and the bullet is a flat point. I'll try it before I change anything.