H&G #11 mold, Whats it worth??

[mikenbarb]

I have a real nice Hensley & Gibbs 2 cavity #11 mold with handles that I cant find anything out about it or what its worth. Can anyone tell me the value of this thing so I can log it into my book. I just need a approximate price and dont have to be exact. I know this one is hard to come by and there has been none on any auctions for quite a while so I have nothing to go by. I even googled it and turned up a goose egg with nothing found on its current value. I listed this a while ago but just to find out what it was before I got it.
Thanks in advance, Mike

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo185/mikenbarbj/003-1.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo185/mikenbarbj/001-3.jpg

[EDK]

Figure out what caliber it is and then go to the Ballisti-cast web site. Look up the caliber and then #511 or #611 in their listings....a H&G #68 becomes either a 568 or 668 IIRC. I don't know if Ballisti-cast makes a 2 cavity, but a 4 cavity is $200 PLUS handles and a 6 cavity is $300 plus handles...last time I looked.

Pricewise, someone else can tell you. I got a 4 cavity #50 with handles off Ebay for about $50 plus shipping this fall....everyone else was sleeping at the switch because the same mould and handles went for $100 in less than a week! Mine had slightly burred screw slots on the bolts, but the blocks and cavities looked like new.

I would value it at retail for a new LYMAN with handles as a minimum. If it was a KEITH design or something more popular than a round nose, the price would be higher.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[cupter]

SURE LOOKS LIKE AN EARLY BULLET FOR THE "HORNET"
OR THE "HIGH POWER"

CUPTER :coffee:

[Texasflyboy]

From the Hensley & Gibbs Factory ledger:

#11 - .22 Caliber. 45grains. Gas check design with probably three grease grooves (drawing is indistinct) with "point-like .22 L.R. Rim Fire"


My guess on the value would be in the $75 to $125 range based on design and past e Bay activity.

Tom in VA

[mikenbarb]

LOL, Texas, I think your about 100.00 too low and the common H&G are going for around 200 bucks now. A nice Lyman is going for 75 bucks now on evil bay.

[Texasflyboy]

Like the post said...my best guess.

I didn't mention that the guess is based on over 1,000 Ebay Auctions I've monitored since 1999. Yours is unique, that I agree. But no H&G .22 caliber rifle mould has ever broken $100 on eBay since I starting logging auctions. The .30 Cal moulds hold the records, some going over $300.00.

The final arbiter is always putting it up for Auction to see what it actually brings. That will be new data and the end of guessing.

~cheers~

Tom

[No_1]

Tom,

Excellent website. Mark (rugerman1) turned me onto it. I never realized I was sitting on a goldmine. I have some that came from my dad's gear but did not cast with them until I checked your website. What joy I have been missing. Now all I need is someone that has the same info about Seaco's.

Robert

[mikenbarb]

My biggest problem is that there has never been one of these on e-bay in the last couple years or at least that I could find. I even looked on the H&G site and theres nothing listed for the #11 mold at all. Im, stumped.:confused:

[rugerman1]

The Hensley & Gibbs Factory Ledger (Numerical List of Mould Numbers from #1 to #938) (http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/Hensley%20&%20Gibbs%20Mould%20List.htm)

[Dale53]

Earlier this year, I bought a like new H&G two cavity bullet mould complete with handles at a large gun show (Ohio Gun Collectors) for a very popular .44 Keith bullet for $75.00. That is about the max that I was willing to pay and the knowledgeable owner wouldn't come down. I believe that it was a fair price.

Four cavity moulds would go higher. I turned down a nearly new four cavity at the same show because it was for a less popular .44 caliber mould at a $100.00 or so. I would have jumped on it if it had been for a Keith 250 gr bullet. It does make a difference in value depending on what bullet the mould will cast.

I have lots of moulds (65-70 or so) but I am NOT a collector. I am only interested if it is something that I can cast with. No safe queens for me...

FWIW
Dale53

[Texasflyboy]

The data on my website is there for anyone to review. The reason design #11 does not appear on the main page is that it’s buried in the numerical listing that rugerman1 posted. If a mould design does not appear in that link that rugerman1 provided from my website, then I don’t know about it and neither did Wayne Gibbs when he sent me that original file. I haven’t had time to redo the main page, life keeps interfering.

I got to the point that I had so much data on this rather narrow subject (tracking auction data on Hensley & Gibbs moulds) that I was hitting final bid prices on eBay to within 90% of final price two to three days before the auction ended. Once a system like that reaches that level of refinement, its good enough for my needs, which is why I stopped publishing the data in 2006, but I am still collecting it. Too much time and effort for too little reward (the law of diminishing returns has reared its head).

As a general statement, not as a response to this post specifically, the most common problem I've experienced over the years when I am asked to value a mould is affirmation.

As in...most people won't argue with me if the guess exceeds their expectation, but will heartily disagree if I’m lower then the expectation they have in mind.

As my wise old Uncle once told me “If I tell you what you want to hear, you’ll think I’m a genius, but if I tell you what I think, we’ll argue till the cows come home”

My guess is only based on hard data, facts, and years of market analysis. But…still a guess. You will determine the final value of that mould in the end. If someone offers you what you think its worth, then you will have established incontrovertible value and I will update my charts to reflect that price. If you do sell it and I don't see that price, please post it to this thread so I can add the data to my charts.

On to my value analysis....

As with this .22 caliber rifle design, low production moulds meant that there was a narrow interest in that particular design that only appealed to a few folks. .22 caliber rifle moulds are definitely low production evidenced by the posts here and my infrequent discussions with Wayne Gibbs.

The options for the .22 caster/reloader are:

1. Buy a rare H&G #11 .22 Caliber mould
2. Buy a less rare .22 caliber Lyman/IDeal Mould
3. Buy a modern design .22 caliber mould from one of the mould mfg's
4. Buy commercial or mil-surp 5.56 jacketed heads

The existence of #'s 2,3, & 4 are what is keeping the price of that mould in the range I posted.

Conversely, the hoards of #50 pistol moulds on the market attest to the success and popularity of its design. Hensley & Gibbs always had 4 cavity #50 moulds in production. The entire time they were in business. From 1933 to 1999. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Wayne told me the last mould he shipped was a #50. Which I will now have to ask him next time we chat.

Back to production rates. Production was based on demand. As with .30 caliber rifle moulds (#20 & #99). As with #503’s, and the other Keith pistol designs. Very, very, popular, and thus many exist to be traded and sold. A lot of data to support price estimation (guessing).

Based on my years of research, Hensley & Gibbs rifle mould popularity by caliber break down this way, from most popular to least popular (most produced to least produced):

.30 Caliber (.308, .311, .314)
.270 Caliber
.35 Caliber
.45 Caliber (45-70 designs)
.323 Caliber (Mauser Calibers)


.22 caliber rifle moulds don't even make a tiny bump on my tracking chart because so few exist. There are ample reasons for this covered in numerable forums here and elsewhere. But the most obvious answer to me is that during the heyday of mould makers (1930’s, 40’s, 50’s & 60’s) there were millions of surplus rifles on the market in .30 caliber, .323 caliber, etc… I don’t know of a single .22 caliber surplus rifle out there during that time period.

So a .22 caliber rifle mould from Hensley & Gibbs is indeed rare. But what is its value?

The alternative to .22 cast bullets, is a jacketed 5.56mm projectile. The NATO small arms standard for MBR’s remains 5.56x45mm, and ample 5.56 caliber jacketed projectiles are available as surplus. I recently saw a post where Wideners is now selling Lake City 5.56mm heads (http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8691&dir=278|281|864) for .07 Cents per for reloading. An ample supply of an alternative mass produced product tends to hold prices down. This was factored into my guess. My experience has been that I don’t know of a single caster in my group of friends who troubles with casting .22 caliber projectiles, but almost all cast .30 caliber.

The supply of inexpensive mil-surp .30 and .323 heads is fast drying up and a good .30 caliber rifle mould can keep you in cheap bullets for a lifetime. This tends to make those .30 moulds more desirable and eBay market analysis supports this.

The only way to know for sure is to put that #11 on the market, see what it brings and go from there.

My .02.

[FISH4BUGS]

Tom:
Regardless of anyone else's opinion, if I had asked you what it was worth I would have taken your word for it.....end of discussion.
I am a consultant to attorneys and I get asked my opinion all the time.....but I get paid for it......what you do for this community is not lost on me. I owe much of my H&G knowledge to you....not to mention a few moulds.
Thanks for all your efforts.
Donald

[georgewxxx]

After reading Tom's assessment on the mould value verses rarity, I changed my mind a bit on the 2 H&G 22 mould in my inventory. My ultra rare #62 which was made for the 22 Savage High Power my actually had more application in it's day then the #4 I have because of the available condom bullets a person had access to in the 40's(WWII). Although I'm sure there were quite a few common 22 Hornets, 218 Bee's, & 222 Remington's plus all the other lesser known calibers back then too that need fodder. There's pictures of them both in Castpics under 218 Bee in Articles by Members.

The #4 has never given anything but mediocre results with any 22 caliber I've tried it in. It similar to Ideal's # 22596 and that one hasn't done any better. I keep trying to come up with the 3/4" group that is stated on that numerical list. 3" seems to be the norm for me. ...Geo

[mikenbarb]

Thank you Tom and that was great to read and I definatly learned a few things about mold prices. I will post a pic in a bit of my #11 H&G. Thanks again, Mike

[mikenbarb]

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo185/mikenbarbj/010-2.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo185/mikenbarbj/009-1.jpg

Heres a better pic of the culprit.LOL.

[Texasflyboy]

Heres a better pic of the culprit.LOL.

Great photos and thanks!

Easy to see the similarity between this mould and the .22LR standard profile.

I would imagine that once its up to temp, it's casts beautifully with those big heat sinks of metal around the cavities.

Thanks again for posting the pics....snagged for the website.

Tom in VA

[mikenbarb]

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo185/mikenbarbj/003-14.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo185/mikenbarbj/002-12.jpg
Heres the side shots Tom. Hope they look good.