Is shotgun with rubber bullets a lethal weapon?

[wv109323]

The incident where a DA's husband pointed a pistol at protestors on his porch brings up the question. If he had a shotgun with rubber bullets would he have got arrested?
If the home owners in St. Louis had shotguns with rubber bullets could they have been charged?
Can you buy non-lethal rubber bullets for a conventional shotgun? Are they LEO only?
Just curious.

[cwtebay]

https://www.margosupplies.com/us-en/product/12-gauge-mid-range-rubber-slugs/

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[Thumbcocker]

I have read that they are used to scare off problem bears. Supposedly they hurt quie a bit at distance but could be lethal at close range. I have seen video of Russian self defense pistols that shoot very hard rubber balls. Letal at 2 meters or so but not leathal past that.

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[richhodg66]

Anything you point a 12 gauge at and pull the trigger you should assume is going to die.

[poppy42]

Ah to my knowledge, there is no such thing as justifiable use of almost deadly force. Or justifiable use of gonna hurt a lot force. With that being said if you point a shotgun at someone you better believe and that you were under the threat of serious bodily harm being done to you. Furthermore as far as I’m concerned if someone points a shotgun at me I don’t care if it’s loaded with horse manure that person is probably gonna wind up with a few more orifices in his or hers body. The whole rubber bullet thing kind of goes against the basic rules of firearm safety. Do you know never point a gun at anything you don’t want to destroy. But that’s just my opinion

[OutHuntn84]

Erroneous thought pattern. Always choose to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. You're just playing into the leftest mindset of social justice. If you are threatened engage tennis shoes. If you are in fear for your life use lethal force. Want to carry around a utility belt of less than lethal options to combat criminals...pick up a comic book.

[scattershot]

It wouldn’t have mattered if they were holding waterguns. The commies needed a scapegoat.

[Texas by God]

Anything you point a 12 gauge at and pull the trigger you should assume is going to die.This above. Even rock salt at point-blank range will kill you and season you.

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[GhostHawk]

Problem as I see it is that only the person holding the gun knows if it is lethal or less than lethal.

[country gent]

As Ghost hawk stated know one else knows whats in the shotgun thus escalating the incident, I would assume that the fire arm is loaded with buck shot. In most self defense training we are taught that the GUN is the factor not to try and determine if its loaded or not, or in this case what its loaded with. Another is brandishing is brandishing whether non lethal or lethally loaded firearm.

[Omega]

Most weapons loaded like that are called "less lethal", not "non lethal" Rubber bullets can kill or seriously injure someone if you practice right.

[akajun]

There are no” rubberbullets”for12gauge that are non lethal. You may find some jackleg novelty ammo that is but no dept uses them. Beanbag rounds yes but they can be lethal if fired to close or in the face/ head. They are white/clear in color so you can physically see what they are and are only fired in shotguns with Orange stocks marked less lethal so as not to accidently shoot someone . There used to be “ Baton rounds” made of rubber or wood meant to be fired out of a 37mm at the rioters shins or bounce off the ground but I don’t think they still make them or know of any dept in the US that uses them still. Most everyone uses either gas rounds or pepperball guns

[cwtebay]

I cannot comment on lethality, but I can say that they will knock an adult moose to the ground if you hit him in the paddles at 10 yards!

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[bedbugbilly]

I agree that it wouldn't have made any difference if they had been armed with a Gene Autry cap gun or a water balloon slingshot . . . .

BUT . . . . in "normal" situations without all of the political BS . . . is a shotgun not considered a "firearm" and therefore a "lethal weapon"? After all . . . who is to say just what is in the chambers and I have to believe that under the right circumstances "rubber shot, ball or slug" could do great bodily harm. In "normal" times, would the individual charged now have the defense of just what his "rights" were at the time and under the circumstances. Not that there will be any "rights" for a citizen under a Leftist Socialist government.

We have a number of active and retired Attorneys on this site . . . perhaps they could shed some light on your question?

[wv109323]

I checked WV law. Anything that emits a projectile by means of an explosion is a weapon. So it makes no difference what it is loaded with. I did find one manufacturer that advertised rubber bullets as non-lethal.

[abunaitoo]

"it'll put your eye out"

Up close a blank can kill you.
Remember Brandon Lee????

[luckyday]

The only shotgun I know of that is non-lethal is Joe Biden's double barrel shotgun. He steps out on the balcony and fires two blasts into the air. Wait, did he say it was OK to step outside with a firearm and fire it when you feel threatened?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_LEfNFMAys

[Petrol & Powder]

The incident where a DA's husband pointed a pistol at protestors on his porch brings up the question. If he had a shotgun with rubber bullets would he have got arrested?
If the home owners in St. Louis had shotguns with rubber bullets could they have been charged?.

This is a flawed question. /\

The question is not, "could they have been charged"? The answer to that is always yes.

A better question would be, "Would the state need to prove the ammunition was lethal in order to obtain a conviction"? The answer to that would depend on the elements of the crime.

If the charge is brandishing a firearm - it wouldn't matter what ammunition was in the gun, or even IF there was ammunition in the gun.
Pointing a firearm at a person can be more than enough to meet the elements of assault, even if the gun is never fired.

Turn the situation around and ask yourself, "if someone intentionally pointed a firearm at you, would you consider that an imminent threat? Would you be likely to respond with deadly force even if you didn't know what type of ammunition was in the gun or if the gun was even loaded?

And just so we're clear, there are times when preparing to use deadly force (like pointing a gun at someone) is justified.

Let's say it wasn't a gun but it was a bat. If he told the attackers, "if you come any closer I'm going to hit you with this bat"; he would just be placing the attackers on notice that he intended to just force to stop them. He's not required to announce his intentions but by doing so, he places the attackers on notice. Perhaps that announcement will be sufficient to avoid using force. If the attackers choose to continue, that's on them.