The Anti subsonic thread...

[44Blam]

Why are people always looking to make rifle rounds subsonic???

You have the barrel length and the charge... Why would you go subsonic???

[M-Tecs]

With a good can subsonic are very quite......

[john.k]

Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.

[BNE]

Because they are fun and different. Quiet, low recoil, lower cost, and they are just fun.

[Outpost75]

I want to be able to shoot deer in my garden in early morning hours without disturbing the neighbors.
Firing a blunt, heavy .45 bullet at 800 fps from a rifle does that without needing a "can" and you can eat right up to the bullet hole.

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[JimB..]

Range toy and reduce/eliminate need for hearing protection.

I don’t understand things like slowing 223 down and using it for squirrel, only because the rifle is heavy vs a .22lr.

Have never poached, and certainly not a domesticated farm animal. I imagine that it’s a problem, but I find being painted with that brush somewhat offensive, so maybe we can avoid doing that in the future?

[dragon813gt]

Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.

What? You do know that states allow silencers for hunting? I like my hearing and have used subsonic loads in conjunction w/ a silencer to take deer a few times. The owner of the farm I hunt on likes this. He’s not opposed to supersonic rounds. But a break of dawn shot that he doesn’t hear doesn’t wake him up.

[toallmy]

I enjoy shooting some very reduced loads out of rifles , and several friends have as well .

[carolina sorillo]

Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.

The use of words like this shows ignorance of the topic. There are lots of uses. I assume you also think AR'Ss and AK's are only useful for military purposes too? I don't own either but don't have problem with others if that's what they want. You're in Aus. you can shoot dingos without spooking them so you can shoot more.

CS

[Hanzy4200]

This is very easy. It is the explosion of suppressor use. 10 years ago, I NEVER saw suppressors. I got to try one about 6 years ago and I thought God had opened the sky to bless me. Now I see them every month. I own 2. They are becoming mainstream. Just wait. After you touch off a 200+ grain bullet and the only sound you hear is that missile smacking the berm, you to will be hooked.

[Texas by God]

They should be legal for adults without registration. I dont have one but I understand their use- especially with more houses popping up when every landed heir sells the farm for development. Legalize switchblades , too- no deadlier than a regular knife IMO. Nighttime hog hunters love them so they dont disturb the landowners- who love the hog hunters results.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[1006]

As Outpost mentioned, even a gun without a suppressor is fairly quiet when sub-sonic ammo is used. I have only found the 300BLK, 22LR, 38Special, and 45 caliber guns to be accurate enough to keep me interested in shooting them sub-sonic.

Years ago I tried loading 308 sun-sonic. It worked, but the rifle’s twist rate did not support accuracy with larger bullets. I kind of figured that if I couldn’t launch at least a 200 grain or larger bullet accurately, it was not a good candidate for hunting.

[cwlongshot]

Its still America... My use isnt now, nor ever was, contingent upon another acceptance for my doing something. ;)

Having said that.. My use is hunting over dogs. They have hearing too and none have advantage if protection. So If I can do something to help that and not effect me or my "wants" Why not!!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It would just be nice if folks with zero actual basis for that opinion would keep it to them selves. ;)

Supressors make for more enjoyment as they makes things quieter.

CW

[Hanzy4200]

This kind of thinking is toxic. This is why we are fighting a uphill battle for suppressor de-regulation. The "only" purpose is for military and poaching? You do realize a subsonic rifle round is still very loud unless suppressed. We better shame all the bow hunters. Way to sneaky. They're definitely up to no good.

[roharmon]

Or, maybe an AR pistol is To loud when fired from the shoulder.

[Dukeconnor]

This is very easy. It is the explosion of suppressor use. 10 years ago, I NEVER saw suppressors. I got to try one about 6 years ago and I thought God had opened the sky to bless me. Now I see them every month. I own 2. They are becoming mainstream. Just wait. After you touch off a 200+ grain bullet and the only sound you hear is that missile smacking the berm, you to will be hooked.

I agree. They sort of become addicting. It is another aspect of our sport. I cast 220 grain pc boolits for my 300 and 308. The cycling of the action is louder than the shot. I've gotten to the point that someone shooting without a can annoys me.

[45workhorse]

First time I shot a suppressed weapon, you couldn't wipe the smile off my face with a belt sander! Now I have one and one in jail. It saves what little hearing I have left.

[Slugster]

While I have no use for a suppressor 'at this time', I do come down on the side of people having and using them. I believe suppressors can have a positive effect on the non-shooting public by not causing them to spit their coffee or mess themselves when a hunter or target shooter fires a round or two. The FedGov needs to declare them as non-NFA items. The $200.00 fee 'tax' should be declared null and void.

[Loudy13]

Arent "mouse fart" or other nicknames people have been using forever about the same thing as subsonic. I rather enjoy shooting my 30-06 with these types of loads because I can sit and shoot 50-100 rounds and still here the satisfying "ping when it hits steel.
just my 2 cents

[GhostHawk]

I'll admit in the last .22lr shortage I tinkered with light loads of Red Dot in a .223rem single shot handi rifle with 55 gr cast bullets.

I came up with 2 winners, one with gas check and a little more Red Dot. Plenty accurate at 100 yards. 55grn Red Dot 6.6 1682 fps to 8.5 2022 fps
6.5 grs of Red Dot will get you in the 1800 fps area,and will shoot well also. Just hit 5" lower than factory.

The other was 55 gr bator bullet, no gas checks, 4.6 grains Red Dot. Should be just below 1400 fps.
This one had a slightly larger group. But assuming aimpoint was a squirrel eye, 10 shots would have killed 10 squirrels. They all printed in the head area.
Sounded a lot like a .22lr with a bit more smack on the far end. 55 gr vs 36 or 40, couple hundred feet per second faster.
Still supersonic, but quiet.

I think the same load in the mid 3's grains of Red Dot would be super quiet subsonic. But I have no chrony to test. And .22lr came back on the market and lowered prices quickly so I shelved that project and moved onto something else.

[Thumbcocker]

I have read that suppressors are legal in England and that their use is encouraged to reduce noise pollution but I have not verified this.

[dragon813gt]

I have read that suppressors are legal in England and that their use is encouraged to reduce noise pollution but I have not verified this.

You can apply that to the whole of Europe. They are treated as the PPE that they are. But it’s not surprising they are treated the way they are here. The NFA exists for no other reason than government control. Thankfully handguns were removed before it became law.

Can you imagine the media frenzy if silencers, this is the term the ATF uses(along w/ muffler), were made legal. We’d here about how inner city gangs are going to use them to commit mass murders. Last time I checked this happens daily anyway. And the media would be using the same fear tactics that were used to pass the NFA in 1934.

[dverna]

I would like to have one to be able to shoot without ear protection. I was hoping the Trump administration would get the laws changed but I guess I will need to do through the hoops if I want one badly enough.

If the SHTF, I will make one as I have a lathe and regulations will not matter. Being able to take game or eradicate two legged pests relatively quietly is advantageous if the SHTF.

[Burnt Fingers]

Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.

DAMN, you're not real bright.

They work great for thinning sounders of feral hogs.

Perhaps living in Australia has warped your mind.

By your yardstick a compound bow must be the most evil thing on earth.

[mdi]

I'm kinda on the fence on this subject, and I've read some above posts that make no sense at all. I have several "subsonic loads" and they surely ain't quiet just because they are under 1,100 fps. Thinking about many handgun loads like 44 Specials, 45 Colt, 38 Specials, and some 9mms that are under the speed of sound, but not at all quiet, even those running 300 fps below speed of sound. Someone mentioned down loading .223 as being silly, but I have an extremely accurate load for my .223 Handi-Rifle consisting of a 45 gr cast .224" bullet over some WC820 that depending on my load run about Long Rifle to 22 Magnum velocities. Funner to shoot than my rimfires and even with minimum loads are not quiet enough to go without hearing protection. I cannot fathom why suppressors were made illegal in the first place. Were they heavily use by the mobs in 1934?

I might try one if I didn't have to jump through the hoops (adding my name to another government agency as a gun owner, do all the paper work and pay the $200 "tax"). Besides, I'm OK with my ear plugs that make my 44 Magnums "pleasant" to shoot...

[waksupi]

I stay subsonic in my buffalo rifles, to avoid the midrange transition at around 700 yards.

[Gone_rabid]

I’m glad to see the posts that are against this line of thinking.

Even if you don’t agree 100% with a certain type of firearm and/or accessory, keep in mind that others enjoy those item. It gets more people involved.

I for one own suppressors and enjoy shooting and reloading to get a subsonic load. Does this mean I’m going to poach something? Absolutely not!

When hunting hogs while using a suppressor they have no idea where the shot comes from and run all over versus without suppressor where they just run away. It opens more opportunities to eliminate.

[Dapaki]

Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.

John, we have the God given right of gun ownership here in the USA. In reality, almost no suppressed rounds are ever fired for poaching in the US, we really dont need to mask gunfire. As far as military, our constitution proclaimed that we have the same right to bear the same arms so as to defend ourselves from the government and military in the case of a tyrant.

God bless Suppressors, AR's, Hi-Cap Mags.

[Larry Gibson]

Why are people always looking to make rifle rounds subsonic???

You have the barrel length and the charge... Why would you go subsonic???

Many reasons;

Indoor range practice
Short range plinking
Small game hunting
Vermin shooting
Teaching non-shooters to shoot
Reduced muzzle blast
Etcetera ad nauseum......

Full power loads and even "normal" reduced loads many times are still to powerful and noisy for the above. I have used subsonic loads in 22 though 45 caliber CF rifles for many, many years to my and others complete satisfaction. Besides, this is still the United States and I don't need a reason "why".

As to use with suppressors; I have been using suppressed weapons since '66 and had my own since '80. I've used them on my own rifles firing sub-sonic rifle cartridges from 22LR up through .308W. Currently in 22 Hornet, 223 Rem and .308W I shoot both sub-sonic (most often cast) and full house jacketed bullet loads. I also use them on handguns (M1911 45 ACP) and on my Rhineland conversion 45 ACP M98 Mauser which are all sub-sonic loads to begin with.

I'll not comment on john k's post as I prefer not to get banned.......

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[OS OK]

"Thanks Gibson"...you may have turned this thread around from it going farther downhill and eventually being closed!

[OutHuntn84]

Even a brain is a useless tool if you can not find a reason to use it or use it properly. However I do support your right to have and use one as you see fit.

Suppressors are simply PPE and reduce your risk of hearing loss. Try shooting any of your guns in a confined area; it is quite an uncomfortable experience. Now imagine that in the confines of your hallway in the middle of the night. For me this justifies the possession and use of suppressors alone.

As far as reduced loads or sub sonic loads go; they really knock down the noise and recoil. Which makes them useful in literally hundreds of applications. I first started down that path just to see how low I could go and still get reasonable accuracy. It's just fun and something else to do with in the scope of our respective hobby.

[Conditor22]

How many of you with guns for defending your home have ever fired a 45 acp or even a 9mm in a hallway without hearing protection??? Your second / third shot may not be anywhere near where you intend them to be [nor will your hearing] . Maybe your adrenaline will keep you going long enough to finish what needs to be done.

[rbuck351]

When you get into a flock of ptarmigan or grouse, a suppressor on a 22lr using CCI quiet and you can usually get several before the survivors figure out they are in danger. I have been hoping they would drop the license for suppressors but I think I'm going to have to go ahead with the paper work so I can make one.

[Tatume]

Subsonic bullets can be very accurate. For game shooting at close range they work well, especially in the larger calibers.

[Conditor22]

300 BO 247 grn NOE over a lite charge of 700X is deadly at 100 yards subsonic and super quiet through a can [ single shot rifle]

shooting this is more fun than a barrel of monkeys, pull the trigger, see the boolit fly, hear the steel ring, no hearing protection required :)

[Outpost75]

My neighbor knows that I am shooting deer in the yard, but he is also appreciative that I use a reduced noise firearm which does not disturb his livestock. I've set him up with some "blooper" loads for his .375 H&H with 11 grains of Bullseye and #375449 which he uses for deer damage control loads and they are very effective out to 200 yards with good sight dope. No "can" needed there either.

[303Guy]

The suppressor has another purpose not yet mentioned. It keeps rain and mud and other debris out of the muzzle. It also reduces recoil recoil with full power loads.

As for subsonic rounds - they eliminate the sonic or transonic crack when using a suppressor.

There is yet another benefit of suppressor use not mentioned. They dampen muzzle vibration, sometimes leading to far better accuracy, plus they stabilize the rifle for off handed shooting if they are heavy enough to make a difference.

[Scrounge]

Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.


How about protecting your hearing and not bothering your neighbors.

[onelight]

I prefer to shoot subsonic ammunition in my handguns I find it more enjoyable , I would rather shoot a heavy bullet at a 1000fps than a light one at 1400 .
I have no suppressors cause I am cheap , combined with not jumping through the hoops they have put in place to make it hard to own one. Hate to say that , it is a victory in my case for the anti's.

[Scrounge]

I would like to have one to be able to shoot without ear protection. I was hoping the Trump administration would get the laws changed but I guess I will need to do through the hoops if I want one badly enough.

If the SHTF, I will make one as I have a lathe and regulations will not matter. Being able to take game or eradicate two legged pests relatively quietly is advantageous if the SHTF.

You'll still need ear protection. They do not actually silence, they just reduce the sound level 30 or 40dB. That's from around 190dB. Check out the VSO Gun Channel on Youtube, search "pillow" and find "Pillow vs Silencer: Is it a Hollywood Myth?" Watch it. You'll get a much better idea of the reality of what silencers do. He gets a subsonic 300 Blackout down to about 125dB. Pretty quiet for a gun, but not at all silent.

I'd like to be able to shoot without ear protection, too. OTH, I'm the oldest male in my family not wearing hearing aides, and I'd like to keep it that way.

[Drm50]

Silencers, Full Auto, ect I have nothing against them. I don’t think silencers should be legal on big game animals. When younger guys usually get these things out of there system. The main thing I always wanted a silencer for was to sneak into some posted squirrel honey holes. A good suppressor on a 22. If a guy wants a suppressor do it! But admit you want to play with it don’t give flimsy stupid reasons. Myself I don’t need one mostly cause I ain’t going to pay to own one. There are a few situations they would be useful but mostly they are toys. I’m going to start making and selling quiet firecrackers, noiseless. There should be a big market for them. You can set off thousands of them and not disturb the neighbors. When you put one of these off you won’t hear it but it should put a big smile on your face. You will kind of look dumb because others won’t know why you are smiling. That’s the fun of it, the others are to stupid to know you just set off a blast equal to a pound of tnt.

[Finster101]

Silencers, Full Auto, ect I have nothing against them. I don’t think silencers should be legal on big game animals. When younger guys usually get these things out of there system. The main thing I always wanted a silencer for was to sneak into some posted squirrel honey holes. A good suppressor on a 22. If a guy wants a suppressor do it! But admit you want to play with it don’t give flimsy stupid reasons. Myself I don’t need one mostly cause I ain’t going to pay to own one. There are a few situations they would be useful but mostly they are toys. I’m going to start making and selling quiet firecrackers, noiseless. There should be a big market for them. You can set off thousands of them and not disturb the neighbors. When you put one of these off you won’t hear it but it should put a big smile on your face. You will kind of look dumb because others won’t know why you are smiling. That’s the fun of it, the others are to stupid to know you just set off a blast equal to a pound of tnt.

Quite the wise acre aren't you. I enjoy shooting my .22s without hearing protection and my .300 Blackout is quiet enough that all you hear is the action cycle. If just making a big boom gets your rocks off why even load boolits? You can accomplish the same thing with blanks. This is the kind of stupid stuff that causes us to continue to loose more rights. Just because you don't like it or want it doesn't mean no one else should have it.

If you don't want one don't buy one. Geez, how hard is that?

[Larry Gibson]

Scrounge

"You'll still need ear protection."

No you don't. I shoot my suppressed rifles with full bore jacketed loads [22 Hornet, 223 Rem and 308W] w/o hearing protection and with my hearing aids in. My hearing was lost to a lot of shooting rifles and bigger guns w/o hearing protection, explosions and a lot of riding around in very noisy military aircraft and vehicles.

Yes the ballistic crack is there but no, nada, nyet, none muzzle blast. Unless your in and enclosed area and the ballistic crack is echoes back it is relatively quiet and is going away from you fast. I've been shooting suppressed rifles for many year with thousands of rounds don't need "no stinking" video to tell me what the reality is. With sub-sonic loads they all are quieter than my 22 cal pellet rifle.

"They do not actually silence, they just reduce the sound level 30 or 40dB. That's from around 190dB.

That's all that hearing protection, even the best muffs, plugs or both, do also.

"Check out the VSO Gun Channel on Youtube, search "pillow" and find "Pillow vs Silencer: Is it a Hollywood Myth?" Watch it. You'll get a much better idea of the reality of what silencers do. He gets a subsonic 300 Blackout down to about 125dB. Pretty quiet for a gun, but not at all silent. I'd like to be able to shoot without ear protection, too. OTH, I'm the oldest male in my family not wearing hearing aides, and I'd like to keep it that way."

Suggest you get some "real world' experience with one instead of depending on video's. Might watch some hunting shows where suppressors are used on CF magnums. Not very loud at all. As mentioned, you can shoot them w/o hearing protection w/o damaging your hearing. As mentioned they are as effective as the hearing protection you're using.

[Drm50]

Quite the wise acre aren't you. I enjoy shooting my .22s without hearing protection and my .300 Blackout is quiet enough that all you hear is the action cycle. If just making a big boom gets your rocks off why even load boolits? You can accomplish the same thing with blanks. This is the kind of stupid stuff that causes us to continue to loose more rights. Just because you don't like it or want it doesn't mean no one else should have it.

What’s your point? I said other people wanting them doesn’t bother me. What other people do neither bothers me or affects me. We got by for a few hundred years without silencers so for me I can do without. Most people aren’t going to pay to have a silencer. Doesn’t matter what you screw it onto it has to be going less than 1086ft per second to work. You also have to factor in elevation above sea level and barometric pressure to be precise but that precision is not needed for this kind of work.

[dragon813gt]

I don’t think silencers should be legal on big game animals.
I’d like to hear, pun intended, your thoughts on why. I’m assuming it has something to do w/ poaching which is a ridiculous misconception.

I don’t know it is on other states. But poaching laws are very strict here. They will take your firearms, they will take your vehicle and make you broke throughout the process. You’re also going to be a felon at the end. Using a silencer would add some federal charges but do you think poachers care about this? They can easily make one out of an oil filter. The adapters are easy to find. So there is no need to go through the NFA purchase process. And like all things criminal, criminals ignore the law and do what they want.

As far as not needing heating protection. You should still use it. Time, proximity and decibel level are the determining factors. Hearing loss is possible w/ two minutes of exposure at 110 dB. Above this and you are at risk for immediate damage. The dB chart is not linear. I work around loud industrial equipment daily. I prefer to wear hearing protection as I’ve lost enough of my hearing already.

[Larry Gibson]

Aristotle seems to have it right...

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[charlie b]

Why subsonic? I like to have a plinking load for my .308. It is just pleasant to shoot and is plenty accurate for practice at 100yd. And very inexpensive. You can get a ton of trigger time with these kinds of loads.

Kinda like, why shoot a .22 rimfire at all? A plinking load for my centerfire rifle gives me the same performance as a rimfire without needing another firearm.

Suppressors. If not for all the paperwork I'd probably have one, just to make shooting more comfortable (I do not hunt).

And, yes, if shooting made no noise at all I would still enjoy it. I loved archery until my shoulder went bad.

[Scrounge]

Scrounge

"You'll still need ear protection."

No you don't. I shoot my suppressed rifles with full bore jacketed loads [22 Hornet, 223 Rem and 308W] w/o hearing protection and with my hearing aids in. My hearing was lost to a lot of shooting rifles and bigger guns w/o hearing protection, explosions and a lot of riding around in very noisy military aircraft and vehicles.

Yes the ballistic crack is there but no, nada, nyet, none muzzle blast. Unless your in and enclosed area and the ballistic crack is echoes back it is relatively quiet and is going away from you fast. I've been shooting suppressed rifles for many year with thousands of rounds don't need "no stinking" video to tell me what the reality is. With sub-sonic loads they all are quieter than my 22 cal pellet rifle.

"They do not actually silence, they just reduce the sound level 30 or 40dB. That's from around 190dB.

That's all that hearing protection, even the best muffs, plugs or both, do also.

"Check out the VSO Gun Channel on Youtube, search "pillow" and find "Pillow vs Silencer: Is it a Hollywood Myth?" Watch it. You'll get a much better idea of the reality of what silencers do. He gets a subsonic 300 Blackout down to about 125dB. Pretty quiet for a gun, but not at all silent. I'd like to be able to shoot without ear protection, too. OTH, I'm the oldest male in my family not wearing hearing aides, and I'd like to keep it that way."

Suggest you get some "real world' experience with one instead of depending on video's. Might watch some hunting shows where suppressors are used on CF magnums. Not very loud at all. As mentioned, you can shoot them w/o hearing protection w/o damaging your hearing. As mentioned they are as effective as the hearing protection you're using.

When I have a couple of hundred dollars to throw away, I'll certainly do that. Though I'd rather that NFA34 gets repealed, in which case I'll probably build my own. I'm not holding my breath waiting. I've spent enough time around jet engines, generators, explosions and gunfire, military vehicles, and loud industrial machinery, too. Don't care to make things worse.

[John McCorkle]

Many reasons but as mentioned, reduced concussion is always a plus. I love my long barreled light loads for this very reason.. less boom for my day to day plinking. I used to baulk at mild or mouse fart loads but that's nearly all I do now.

I don't own a suppressor but it absolutely makes a difference.

9mm PCC with 16 inch barrel and a linear compensator is downright pleasure to shoot ...300 BLK with mouse fart loads in bolt action is giggles and fun. All day shooting, no fatigue

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[303Guy]

At the moment I am having trouble with subsonic suppressed 22lr being too noisy! In the quiet of night and neighbors out of sight (semi-rural), I do not want those neighbors to hear me at all. Muzzle 'blast' is just a spitting sound but not silent. Tran-sonic crack is a nuisance and quite audible. Fully sub-sonic is so inaccurate I might as well use a catapult. I'm not talking about hearing preservation here, I'm talking about not disturbing neighbors. If I heard my neighbor shooting at night. I would pop over and ask to join him but you get my point.

My point is I have plenty of use for a suppressor and sub-sonic ammo. Low recoil and a good hard hit on the other end is rather satisfying.

And as Larry has pointed out - a good suppressor does not need hearing protection with full power loads.

[303Guy]

I don’t think silencers should be legal on big game animals.
Why do you think that?

I think it should be illegal to fire a firearm without a suppressor - under any circumstances (well, maybe life threatening circumstances could be made an exception).


But admit you want to play with it don’t give flimsy stupid reasons.
Oh, I want to play with them, make no mistake. Just like I want to play with my rifles (and my fishing rods). Not sure what would be considered flimsy and or stupid reasons though. The only reasons I have to give is that I want to and I don't want to wear ear muffs while hunting. I trust that would not be considered flimsy or stupid. Mind you, I have been out hunting with mates who thought I was being stupid for wearing hearing protection. Then again, I was never famous for being a conformist. I just never accepted that being like the group was more important than being able to hear.

[Hick]

Most of my rifles are old and/or old military. They are not set up for a suppressor, an even if they were it would be $ to get one. I can shoot subsonic all day long for pleasure-- and it makes ammo very inexpensive. I don't always load subsonic but I do it when I want. And-- out to 100 yards I can get just as good accuracy with open sights out of subsonic as I can with hotter loads. Its makes for hours of fun plinking. One of the drawbacks of a load a little hotter than subsonic, which you sometimes have with some cast bullets, is that funny things happen to the bullet down range when it drops from supersonic velocity to subsonic. So-- if you want the best accuracy, you either load to a high enough velocity to stay supersonic all the way to the target or load subsonic to start with. Its a choice, but there are many excellent uses for subsonic with cast bullets.

[elmacgyver0]

Why don't automobile mufflers require a $200 tax stamp and NFA registration?
It is the same thing, a unit to quiet expanding gasses.

[44Blam]

EDIT:

Well guys, I was 9 beers into a 6 pack when I decided to drop a proverbial "hand grenade in a port-o-potty"... Sorry 'bout that...

[303Guy]

Most of my rifles are old and/or old military. They are not set up for a suppressor, .....
Aah yes of course, I didn't think my comment through. But where possible, I think it a good idea to use a suppressor. I am fortunate that in my country there is no silliness with regard to suppressors but actual hearing protection beyond rifle ranges is still not overly emphasized (I think) although the awareness seems to be much improved.

[303Guy]

EDIT:

Well guys, I was 9 beers into a 6 pack when I decided to drop a proverbial "hand grenade in a port-o-potty"... Sorry 'bout that...

You do realize you just caused me to squirt a mouthful of beer all over my keyboard? :mrgreen:

I must remember that one. I'm sure I'll find an opportunity to use it. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Both lines actually.

And anyway, it provoked some good thoughts on the issue. :drinks:

[SMSgtBulldog]

I’m blessed to own property and have both a pistol and rifle range across from my garage/workshop. I can fire my .300 BO’s from inside it during the heat and humidity and all you hear is the some action noise and a steel twang down range. I’ve taught great nephews and nieces to enjoy the shooting sports with suppressed .22lr pistols and rifles without that big old scary boom to distract them from important fundamentals. I hunt our land using .300BO’s for hogs and .308 for deer but have never I poached game nor will I. What I hear most often as an objection is all the paperwork you have to do, which isn’t much more than you would do to buy any standard firearm. It’s that pesky $200 and the waiting game that throws it all into the port-o-let. I also don’t worry about the government having my info cuz after 32 years in the military, trust me, they’ve got it. I don’t like the tax, the NFA or the waiting game but man I sure do love my cans.

[444ttd]

i don't a "silencer", probably never will. i use hearing protection muffs on my range, i don't do it hunting. muzzle brakes ought to banned for use on ranges, the feds ought to tax them!!!!!

as far as "silencers" are concerned, if you have them, use them. if you don't, then don't. it doesn't bother me. i don't like the waiting game either and the $200 for each "silencer" are the fed's wet dream. i'll pay $30 for my c&r for 3 years because i like and own old rifles. my army days are behind me. i would have liked to use a "can" but they weren't popular back then.

[gnostic]

Years ago I read that much of the report/noise, is a result of the bullet breaking the sound barrier, 1100fps....

[Texas by God]

I have read that suppressors are legal in England and that their use is encouraged to reduce noise pollution but I have not verified this.Score one for them; I believe that they call them moderators over there. I would definitely want one for prairie dogging if they don't affect the accuracy of full power ammo. Saving what's left of my hearing is the goal but ear plugs are cheap and a suppressor is not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Larry Gibson]

Years ago I read that much of the report/noise, is a result of the bullet breaking the sound barrier, 1100fps....

Not correct; With an unsuppressed firearm the majority of the noise will be the muzzle blast. Factually, if you are the shooter or within close proximity [probably 100+/- yards] you will most likely not hear any of the sonic crack [bullet breaking the sound barrier] at all as it is completely overshadowed by the intensity and duration of the muzzle blast. You'll need you are a considerable distance down range [usually within a 120 degree cone +/- from the shooter] before the ballistic crack becomes distinguishable. If you've ever pulled targets in a 200, 300, 600 or farther target pit you hear the ballistic crack quite well.

The military actually uses a technique called "crack and thump" to determine distance and range to a single shooter [many times erroneously referred to as a "sniper"]. If the "sniper" has a good suppressor you will hear a "crack" and perhaps a "splat" of the bullet hitting. However, you won't hear the "thump" to get a direction as it is almost impossible to get a direction the shot came from by the crack alone. When you dive for cover the question remains; "am I behind cover or in front of cover?" A very frightful prospect indeed. Now what does this have to do with this discussion? Well, when hunting the game [other than the original target or if you missed] will be just as confused. I've had coyotes just stand and look at their partner who has just been shot or, if the run it is very slow with them stopping shortly to look around. Sometimes they even run over to their buddy to see what's wrong or even run towards me. I've had ground squirrels run over to there buddy with a "what you doin" look just before a bullet finds them.....Animals do the darndest things.....when there is no muzzle blast to spook them. With sub-sonic there isn't even the "crack"......

Now, with all that said, subsonic bullets do make noise flying through the air....a "swoosh" if you will. How loud is dependent on the shape and caliber of the bullet with a given 1050 fps muzzle velocity a 45 caliber RN bullet makes a lot more noise than a 22LR RN bullet flying through the air. A WC or SWC will make more noise than RN. Many times the loudest noise is going to be the action of the firearm functioning, if a semi-automatic, or the bullet striking the target.

As I've mention before, as have others, my sub-sonic suppressed loads are quieter than my springer pellet rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

i don't a "silencer", probably never will. i use hearing protection muffs on my range, i don't do it hunting. muzzle brakes ought to banned for use on ranges, the feds ought to tax them!!!!!

as far as "silencers" are concerned, if you have them, use them. if you don't, then don't. it doesn't bother me. i don't like the waiting game either and the $200 for each "silencer" are the fed's wet dream. i'll pay $30 for my c&r for 3 years because i like and own old rifles. my army days are behind me. i would have liked to use a "can" but they weren't popular back then.

Please feel free to do as you will, that is what a "free" country is supposed to be about. However. the attitude you express in your 1st paragraph is what will divide us gunowners and eventually allow the gun grabbers to win. I would simply offer the advise of Aristotle as quoted in post #46. We all have our own likes and dislikes in this shooting game and we should be tolerant of the other guys likes even if we don't like it. Just saying.....

Additionally, I'm not pushing for everyone to get or use a suppressor. Nor am I even saying they should. I'm just laying out the facts about them and their use and why and how I use them.

As to the cost ($200) of the tax and the wait I've never cared for either but it is what it is. Hopefully, if we stick together, we can get that changed in the future. I got my 1st suppressor in '80 and have used it a lot over the years on different rifles from 22LR up through 308W. I have rebuilt it twice [prior to the regulation prohibiting that] and it's still working fine on a 308W LR rifle. Thus the onetime $200 fee has been amortized down to $5 a year. My 223 suppressor is used on a 22LR, and AR, and 2 Contender barrels; a 22 Hornet and a 223 barrel. I shoot full power jackets loads and sub-sonic cast through them. I expect all my suppressors will out last me even though I use them a lot.

Guess I was lucky "back then" in the Army as an SF weapons NCO I had many different suppressors and suppressed guns available for use....and I did use them...... They are readily available to many other units now and are even a requirement on many newer weapons.

[rking22]

To answer the question, cause that’s what they/we find interesting. Same with the folk want to pour a whole can of slow powder in a huge case to get an additional 200 FPS over an 06, cause it’s interesting to them.
I have hunted with subsonic 22LR for decades now, from a long barrel it allows me to get several squirrels from the same tree and the woods settles down quicker. I have finally bit the bullet and sent in my 200$ tax for a 22 can. I have a couple pistols that are just too loud for my likes, even sub. I consider it my retirement present to myself. Need to thread my barrels while I still have access to the plant machine shop! Good excuse anyway!

[Gtek]

I am glad I have all mine and I want more, a wet can with Mr. Eley out of a 22" bolt is a hoot!

[Ozark mike]

I support the constitution including the 2nd and any one who wants to own supressors muzzlebreaks howitzers rpgs and yes a hand grenade to drop in the portapottie. You may hear me say i absolutely hate m16s but i support anyone who wants to own one in every size shape caliber color. Even tho i think they are a joke. And why is this you say because when i was a snot nosed kid i de cided to join the service and learned that these freedoms we have are well worth dyin for so if anyone thinks that the US constitution is something to wipe yore feet on ya should take off while yore feet can still carry ya. Dont get me wrong i support the freedom of speech also im not directing this at any one person or entity well except maybe the demorats just speaking my feelings on the subject

[charlie b]

EDIT:

Well guys, I was 9 beers into a 6 pack when I decided to drop a proverbial "hand grenade in a port-o-potty"... Sorry 'bout that...

ROFLMAO

:bigsmyl2:

[Larry Gibson]

"hand grenade in a port-o-potty"

Not sure I could move away quick enough any more in 3 - 5 seconds.......:dung_hits_fan:

[17nut]

You'll still need ear protection. They do not actually silence, they just reduce the sound level 30 or 40dB. (1) That's from around 190dB. Check out the VSO Gun Channel on Youtube, search "pillow" and find "Pillow vs Silencer: Is it a Hollywood Myth?" Watch it. You'll get a much better idea of the reality of what silencers do. (2) He gets a subsonic 300 Blackout down to about 125dB. Pretty quiet for a gun, but not at all silent.

I'd like to be able to shoot without ear protection, too. OTH, I'm the oldest male in my family not wearing hearing aides, and I'd like to keep it that way.

(1) Oh, please do tell us what shoulder fired weapon that gets near 190dB!!!
Inquisitive minds want to know.
I havent heard of anything going much past 165-168dB, but please educate us nimwits!


(2) Since the action on an ar cycling is around 118dB then i'd say it's damn fine, but you're the expert?


Anything much past 36-38dB are very rare in a muffler but as stated elswhere it's enough to use the weapon without earmuffs and still keep the best part of your hearing.

Illigal 4 years ago in Denmark but now you are frowned upon at the range without. Everyone likes quiert :-)
And no not a single illegal act with a silencer since (or before for that matter), go figure!

[trebor44]

Interesting reading as usual. Last fall, a nice Buck was poached well inside city limits, in a park by a 'bow' person (wouldn't call them a hunter). They left a blood trail to their jeep, loaded and left. Yeah, per that 'event' it appears to be easy to poach inside city limits and you don't need a suppressor. However, I do wish they did not need the tax stamp and the other documentation!

[Gone_rabid]

Suppressor? Yes please.

265962

[Cast_outlaw]

If done right they are cheep accurate fun
303british
Lee tl 90-312-tc
Wlrp 5gr Vectan as
25 and 50 yards

And not loud enough to need hearing protection

265963
265964

[Larry Gibson]

Cast_outlaw

bet that is very quiet.......

[Cast_outlaw]

Cast_outlaw

bet that is very quiet.......

My lighter true subsonic 900fps you can hear the hammer fall over the report
Those targets were shot at 1365 but still quieter than a Cci 22 quiet

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I prefer my revolver rounds to be subsonic. More pleasant to shoot. 1600 to 1700 fps with cast in my .308 is just fine though.

[Burnt Fingers]

At the moment I am having trouble with subsonic suppressed 22lr being too noisy! In the quiet of night and neighbors out of sight (semi-rural), I do not want those neighbors to hear me at all. Muzzle 'blast' is just a spitting sound but not silent. Tran-sonic crack is a nuisance and quite audible. Fully sub-sonic is so inaccurate I might as well use a catapult. I'm not talking about hearing preservation here, I'm talking about not disturbing neighbors. If I heard my neighbor shooting at night. I would pop over and ask to join him but you get my point.

My point is I have plenty of use for a suppressor and sub-sonic ammo. Low recoil and a good hard hit on the other end is rather satisfying.

And as Larry has pointed out - a good suppressor does not need hearing protection with full power loads.

Can you get standard velocity 22 ammo?

I was shooting my braced Charger yesterday with standard velocity ammo and the nosiest thing was the action cycling.

[Gone_rabid]

The 22 cci quiets are insanely quiet in a bolt action. From 20’ away I can hear the bullet hit paper and darn near nothing else. They also have semi auto quiets to cycle the semi autos.

[Larry Gibson]

My lighter true subsonic 900fps you can hear the hammer fall over the report
Those targets were shot at 1365 but still quieter than a Cci 22 quiet

Barrel length can make a difference in sub or sonic from standard velocity 22LR. Optimal barrel length for max velocity is supposed to be 18" - 20" +/-. When shooting some 22LR standard velocity out of my 20" barrel AR with M261 device I get a 'snap" right in front of the barrel as the velocity is breaking the sound barrier. However, it is just a bit so it's not very loud and the bullet quickly goes sub-sonic and the "snap/crack" ceases. With Winchester match, particularly pistol match, all I hear is the little bolt functioning [the ear is right there on an AR] and the bullet strike the target. With 22LR equivalent cast loads in my 22 Hornet and 223 Rem Contender barrels with a 225438 at 1000 fps all I hear is the hammer fall. With a 225415 at 1100 fps there is a slight pppssfffttt at the muzzle but the hammer strike/fall still seems louder. That's at the range with a tin roof over head. Out in the field I barely hear anything, even with my hearing aides on.....:guntootsmiley:

[Larry Gibson]

My lighter true subsonic 900fps you can hear the hammer fall over the report
Those targets were shot at 1365 but still quieter than a Cci 22 quiet

Barrel length can make a difference in sub or sonic from standard velocity 22LR. Optimal barrel length for max velocity is supposed to be 18" - 20" +/-. When shooting some 22LR standard velocity out of my 20" barrel AR with M262 device I get a 'snap" right in front of the barrel as the velocity is breaking the sound barrier. However, it is just a bit so it's not very loud and the bullet quickly goes sub-sonic and the "snap/crack" ceases. With Winchester match, particularly pistol match, all I hear is the little bolt functioning [the ear is right there on an AR] and the bullet strike the target. With 22LR equivalent cast loads in my 22 Hornet and 223 Rem Contender barrels with a 225438 at 1000 fps all I hear is the hammer fall. With a 225415 at 1100 fps there is a slight pppssfffttt at the muzzle but the hammer strike/fall still seems louder. That's at the range with a tin roof over head. Out in the field I barely hear anything, even with my hearing aides on.....:guntootsmiley:

My 22 Hornet Contender....

265988

[robg]

there is no need to go subsonic with a mod it still takes most of the noise off ,but its a hoot when all you hear is the boolit hitting the target.

[M-Tecs]

there is no need to go subsonic with a mod it still takes most of the noise off ,but its a hoot when all you hear is the boolit hitting the target.

If you want to eliminate the sonic boom of the bullet there is.

[sutherpride59]

As many have said hearing things is nice, I have a can and using subs in it is great. I can hear everything and don’t have to wait to for foamies to expand or put on ear muffs and have them in the way trying to get my cheek to the rifle. Lots of reasons bud, get a can and make that statement again lol, your next post would be what’s a good subsonic mold!

[Outpost75]

Standard-pressure handgun rounds, loaded with fast-burning pistol powders such as Bullseye or TiteGroup are subsonic and produce a mild report when fired in a rifle with barrel of 20 inches or more. The key is to have a light powder charge of fast-burning powder which produces a low muzzle-exit pressure. Ordinary factory .38 Special lead semi-wadcutters, or .45 Colt "Cowboy" loads are not "quiet" like an air rifle, but are little louder than .22 LR fired in a barrel of the same length.

Go to a SASS match sometime and listen to the poppety-pop of their light handguns loads in leverguns to get an idea. You don't need a can for fun recreational shooting.

[Ozark mike]

Unless they're real cowboy loads loaded with fffg

[pocketace]

well lets see, modern thought is that a HANDGUN chambered in 44 magnum or 45 long colt need to be loaded with bullet weights and velocities that approximate the ORIGINAL 45-70 government load... how is that a smart idea?

If i can take a 400 grain bullet and toss it down range at the same velocity as my 38 special can toss a 158 gr lrn.... 1000fps... and have a stoke for extra accuracy why not.

[Outpost75]

well lets see, modern thought is that a HANDGUN chambered in 44 magnum or 45 long colt need to be loaded with bullet weights and velocities that approximate the ORIGINAL 45-70 government load... how is that a smart idea?

If i can take a 400 grain bullet and toss it down range at the same velocity as my 38 special can toss a 158 gr lrn.... 1000fps... and have a stoke for extra accuracy why not.

In standard .44 Magnum barrels of 18-3/4" twist in a revolver you will have difficulty stabilizing a bullet heavier than about 300 grains with anything resembling normal accuracy. The much heavier bullets usually require slower burning powders in heavier charge weights to stay within pressure limits, resulting in higher muzzle-exit pressure and greater noise, UNLESS you are willing to launch the heaviest bullet which will stabilize at the lowest velocity which will exit the barrel. 265-grain .455 MkI LRN from a 20-inch rook rifle gets about 800 fps from a 20-inch barrel with 5 grains of Unique.

266006

[Outpost75]

unless they're real cowboy loads loaded with fffg


lol! 8-)

[robg]

If you want to eliminate the sonic boom of the bullet there is.

i know it doesnt cut out all sound all i meant is it still cuts the noise down to reasonable levels

[Dapaki]

IMHO, stating "anti" anything firearm related is foolishness and does the Marxists job for them. I.e. not everybody likes lever actions, I don't but Ill die for your right to own and shoot them! After all, a tyrant will succumb to the medicine delivered no matter the action behind the barrel or attachment in front of it.

[elmacgyver0]

IMHO, stating "anti" anything firearm related is foolishness and does the Marxists job for them. I.e. not everybody likes lever actions, I don't but Ill die for your right to own and shoot them! After all, a tyrant will succumb to the medicine delivered no matter the action behind the barrel or attachment in front of it.

Absolute truth!

To add a little.
Anyone who thinks the left isn't after your lever actions is also a fool.
Anyone actually believe once the semi-autos are gone the Dems will be happy?

[onelight]

The bottom line is a suppressor does not make a poacher or assassin out a person any more than owning a car make you a car bomber or a getaway driver for criminals , like most laws they mainly make life difficult for the good guys and don't change the bad.

[Drew P]

I also love shooting suppressed subs. As a reloader it’s also quite a challenge to get loads to perform in this way. Also, if you’re not sub then you better be super the whole way, it’s one or the other. So, reduced loads that end up trans sonic in flight can present a lot of accuracy issues, so, keep them heavy and keep them sub, and enjoy soft shooting bliss.

[Drew P]

Absolute truth!

To add a little.
Anyone who thinks the left isn't after your lever actions is also a fool.
Anyone actually believe once the semi-autos are gone the Dems will be happy?
Not sure I trust anyone who doesn’t love a lever action!

[robg]

Not sure I trust anyone who doesn’t love a lever action!

snap i love levers

[Gtek]

Marxist Divide and Conquer anyone?

[sutherpride59]

I should add that for some the most comfortable way to shoot a rifle is with a suppressor. Imagine firing a 338 lappua in a long range PRS march under a tin roof without a suppressor. It’s load as hell and has a large amount of recoil. For some it’s the only way to comfortable shoot a gun that can do what they want. No need to poop all over everyone else because you have zero imagination. If you don’t like em, don’t buy one. I don’t like AK’s, so I don’t have one.

[charlie b]

Not sure I trust anyone who doesn’t love a lever action!

While I like the look of levers I have never liked shooting them. I even tried one again a few years ago. Sold it off after a few months of shooting it. It did surprise me that it was fairly accurate, hitting golf balls at 75yds (model 94 .30-30).

I'll stick with bolt actions :) And, no, I don't own any 'black' rifles either. My 'assault' rifle is a Garand :)

[DonHowe]

At the range where I shoot most often I wish only suppressed ARs were allowed. Why? It is the volume of noise. For that crowd, at that range, he auto loaders MUST be fired as fast as they will cycle. On a range surrounded by concrete the volume of sound is deafening even with ear protection. All this noise is generated to produce soccer-ball-sized groups on large targets at 50 yds.
I really think those guys don't even need to send bullets downrange, just produce the sound effects.
No I am not anti AR. I do not own one but if I did I would still want each shot to go where I aimed it.

[dakotashooter2]

I have to scratch my head. Some guys work and work to get max velocity and accuracy out of a load to hunt with then throw it out the window when they decide they need to be subsonic instead.

[mvozz]

I was never a subsonic guy until I read a rather hard to read tome about how the Scandinavian underground used them to fight the Russians. It seems they would pull rifle bullets and dump the powder, they would then pull some pistol bullets and put the powder in the rifle cases. The result was a subsonic round that was very accurate. These guys were treated like heroes because they supplied the ammo for the freedom fighters that were much more quiet and harder to trace where the shot had come from. If the Russians found someone making handloads they were arrested because it was assumed that they were either poachers or assassins. So began my decent into the world of casting lead boolets, subsonic loads, powder coating and etc.... My next deviance will be a suppressor as soon as I can find someone that isn't too busy to thread the end of a few barrels. After lots of reading and experimenting I have found that subsonic loads can be both accurate and deadly without the recoil of a high velocity load, now to make them quieter!!!

[robg]

mod also cut recoil so help people shoot better.

[Harter66]

I'm a number guy . I lived in a state that had a minimum energy required for big game .

I recently worked a 45-70 250 gr load over 2000 fps . I didn't enjoy shooting that load .
A 500 gr bullet best described as an ogival SWC at 500 gr and 1050 fps takes 25% of a powder costing 2/3 as much and will carry the 1000# an additional 100 yd while not killing the shooter too . It makes my 45-70 cost about $8/100 to shoot .

30 cal takes a .310 BC 1900 fps MV to carry the 1000# to 100 yd . The assorted 230s will get down to 1300 or so .

Honestly I get a kick out of shooting 223 , 62 gr subs over 2.5 gr of powder and hearing the clickpop cling on steel is a hoot .

It's about shooting low report , low recoil , reduced consumption loads that may be suited to taking game . Sure suppressors are part of it . In Europe many areas require suppressors to hunt .

I saw video maybe 2 years ago of some hog hunters in Tx with deciblometers shooting full tilt 120 gr 6.8 SPC and 308 . Unmuzzled they were 165 DB or close , suppressed the muzzle report was just 109-111 db as a final test a meter was set up next to a cadaver donor hog . Bullet impact was 115 db .

I don't remember now what the db scale calibrates to but I do remember that average human hearing starts at around 40-45 db and damage can happen around 96 db continuous and 110 shock . I also know that the XR650R I rode for a while was pretty quiet at the USFS spark arrester muffler rating of 85 db was pretty quiet actually . Wearing a full face helmet the wind around 50 mph cancelled out the exhaust . If it weren't for the fact that I didn't want Uncle to have a name and address to fast track a pick up and it wasn't $200 for the $300 unit I'd probably have a couple myself . Fact is if they were not NFA items they'd be about $100-150 and a whole lot of us would have them .

[lksmith]

Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.

WRONG!!!! (or you forgot the green sarcasm font)
There are multiple legitimate uses for them such as: hunting without spooking other animals, hurting my ears, my dog's ears, shooting pests while on a conference call or causing a lot of noise such as taking out hogs in town for a property owner. just to name a few
My former landlady had a hog problem in the park we were living in and asked me if I would quietly take them out for her in lieu of rent since they were tearing up the $2000+ landscaping she had done. The park we were in was mostly families and old folks, and inside city limits. A suppressed subsonic shot kills better than an arrow and while unsuppressed is legal, suppressed just causes a lot less disturbance to the peace

Also, I like to take my suppressed 22 pistol and shoot squirrels while deer hunting, quiet enough to not spook the deer and I always come home with meat

[Ozark mike]

Well my train of thought (or whats left of it) is since im so good at breaking stuff like noses, laws, glass, Chinese crap and hearts i might as Well break the sound Barrier every chance i get

[mikeatl]

Well now you know why they have the gun laws they have. Heck , with his way of thinking all they need are muzzle loaders. The only reason you need cased ammo is so you can load faster.

[444ttd]

Please feel free to do as you will, that is what a "free" country is supposed to be about. However. the attitude you express in your 1st paragraph is what will divide us gunowners and eventually allow the gun grabbers to win. I would simply offer the advise of Aristotle as quoted in post #46. We all have our own likes and dislikes in this shooting game and we should be tolerant of the other guys likes even if we don't like it. Just saying.....

Additionally, I'm not pushing for everyone to get or use a suppressor. Nor am I even saying they should. I'm just laying out the facts about them and their use and why and how I use them.

As to the cost ($200) of the tax and the wait I've never cared for either but it is what it is. Hopefully, if we stick together, we can get that changed in the future. I got my 1st suppressor in '80 and have used it a lot over the years on different rifles from 22LR up through 308W. I have rebuilt it twice [prior to the regulation prohibiting that] and it's still working fine on a 308W LR rifle. Thus the onetime $200 fee has been amortized down to $5 a year. My 223 suppressor is used on a 22LR, and AR, and 2 Contender barrels; a 22 Hornet and a 223 barrel. I shoot full power jackets loads and sub-sonic cast through them. I expect all my suppressors will out last me even though I use them a lot.

Guess I was lucky "back then" in the Army as an SF weapons NCO I had many different suppressors and suppressed guns available for use....and I did use them...... They are readily available to many other units now and are even a requirement on many newer weapons.


i never went SF, i couldn't speak no other languages:( and i wasn't a sergeant or above, just a specialist. i was a 12B with 51B on the side. i was also a op 4, for 2 weeks a year, 5 years running(i was a reservist, '91 - '97). the mp5 sd and the suppressed sterling were about the only suppressed rifles i could think of back then. but they weren't available(army) to me, so i didn't use them. the suppressed weapons weren't available to the grunts as they are now.

my comment on muzzle brakes was tongue in cheek. i should have put a :wink: or [smilie=l: after that. i'm sorry.
i just hate muzzle brakes, i had one in a savage m116(adjustable muzzle brake) and my dad still has one(tc 'tender with a muzzle brake, i think it is a super 14" barrel?) we have our range, but at one time we didn't. we got tired of the "concussion" (i guess that is what you'd say?) of the muzzle brakes that everybody had, when the mb were en vogue.
anyway, i got off topic, i'm sorry that it got off that way. taxing a mb or a suppressor is not right.

[303Guy]

I call muzzle breaks (spelling deliberate) muzzle blast intensifiers - and they are. I'm not excessively fond of recoil or muzzle blast. So, I built this simple device I put on my Brit. It looks like a suppressor and it almost sounds like suppressor but it feels like a muzzle brake (correct spelling deliberate). All I need for shooting comfort is to wear cheap ear plugs sideways. I can hear normally with them. I just can't control muzzle rise! It's like a small rocket engine pushing gently but firmly. It overhangs the barrel by about an inch. The thing is great! Unfortunately it looks too much like a suppressor to be legal in the US. I think it would fail on noise reduction too. Sound level may only be reduced by one half if I'm not mistaken? That's from 165 db to 162 db. I'm sure this thing is more effective than that.