How fast is fast enough?

[jimb16]

I found a load with a 255 gr. rn flat point that my 1873 absolutely loves (.45 Colt). 1 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards with peep sights. I haven't had a chance to chrono the load yet, but will soon. I want to use it for whitetails. The reason I'm asking is because the load isn't particularly hot, in fact it is pretty mid range. Considering the weight of the boolit, shape and caliber, what is a reasonable velocity for hunting deer. Yes I know it is subjective and I'm opening a can of worms, but what the heck!

[Mk42gunner]

Talk about opening a can of worms, man you did it.

Considering whitetail aren't all that hard to kill, (they can't read the hunting magazines, and I have yet to find one with an internet connection) I would say that anything in the 1,000 to 1,200 fps range will be plenty.

This is assuming (I really don't like that word) shortish ranges of under 125-150 yards, which I am inferring from you target distance of 50 yards.

I think a reasonable load from your 1873 should be able to at least approach a heavily loaded .44 Special or .45 Colt handgun load, without stressing the action too much.

It will be interesting to see the more knowledgeable responses,

Robert

[00buck]

Big heavy slow boolits kill them deader

[indian joe]

Talk about opening a can of worms, man you did it.

Considering whitetail aren't all that hard to kill, (they can't read the hunting magazines, and I have yet to find one with an internet connection) I would say that anything in the 1,000 to 1,200 fps range will be plenty.

This is assuming (I really don't like that word) shortish ranges of under 125-150 yards, which I am inferring from you target distance of 50 yards.

I think a reasonable load from your 1873 should be able to at least approach a heavily loaded .44 Special or .45 Colt handgun load, without stressing the action too much.

It will be interesting to see the more knowledgeable responses,

Robert

Couple of suggestions
1) sneak up close, gunners shortish 125 -150 is long range in my book ( pistol load in a 73 with iron sights?)
2) practice shoot offhand - standing unsupported - wherever you can keep every shot within three inches of your aim point (thats a six inch group dead centered) is your maximum range......a)its a reality check b) your trigger discipline will improve at a rapid rate - the chance of pulling a bad shot in the field will be much less

[Jedman]

jimb16, I have seen many deer killed with cartridges much less powerful than your mid power 45 Colts.
Two years ago I shot a buck with a injured leg ( not from me ) with a antique rifle that I barreled in 38 special and killed it just fine, double lung shot ran a ways and fell over.
In Ohio 38 special is a legal caliber for deer , just about the minimum and I felt confident in hitting the spot I wanted and it worked out.
I have shot deer with the 45 ACP and found it very effective, so I say if your rifle shoots as good as you say and you can shoot deer as well as a target ( a lot can’t ) then you have no worries.

Jedman

[jimb16]

My ability to shoot well isn't a problem. I'm good enough to have medalled at the nationals, so I think that isn't a problem. I enjoy shooting small pieces of clay birds off-hand at 100 yards on the rifle range. Mostly I hunt from a blind so I can even use a rest if I feel like it. My max shooting distance where I hunt is 80 yards so I don't have to worry about much boolit drop. I just want to be certain that I have enough power to drop a good buck in his tracks with a well placed shot. Last year I took a fair sized but small racked buck at 40 yards, but I wasn't happy with the load that I was using as far as consistent accuracy was concerned. And yes, he did drop in his tracks. But I want to be better than last year. I want to be confident with an 80 yard shot, not 40 yards. I know I can put the shot into a 4 inch or less group at 80, but I want to be sure I've got the power to do the job right. Those flat points make one heck of a hole, but there is just too much heavy cover and too many swamps in the area if the deer runs any distance. I've shot and killed many deer with shotgun, cross bow, flintlocks and rifle and never lost one even though I have had to track 3 of them. But the area I'm hunting these days is heavier cover than anywhere else that I've hunted. I want to stack the odds as much in my favor as possible.

[Jedman]

I have found that no matter what gun / caliber you use you can never absolutely guarantee to drop a deer in it tracks. I’m not saying a perfectly placed head or neck shot wount do that but I don’t often use those shots because there is more risk in the animal moving right when the trigger is breaking and a couple inches off your POA and you have a wounded animal. But it is never because the bullet wasn’t fast enough.

Jedman

[indian joe]

My ability to shoot well isn't a problem. I'm good enough to have medalled at the nationals, so I think that isn't a problem. I enjoy shooting small pieces of clay birds off-hand at 100 yards on the rifle range. Mostly I hunt from a blind so I can even use a rest if I feel like it. My max shooting distance where I hunt is 80 yards so I don't have to worry about much boolit drop. I just want to be certain that I have enough power to drop a good buck in his tracks with a well placed shot. Last year I took a fair sized but small racked buck at 40 yards, but I wasn't happy with the load that I was using as far as consistent accuracy was concerned. And yes, he did drop in his tracks. But I want to be better than last year. I want to be confident with an 80 yard shot, not 40 yards. I know I can put the shot into a 4 inch or less group at 80, but I want to be sure I've got the power to do the job right. Those flat points make one heck of a hole, but there is just too much heavy cover and too many swamps in the area if the deer runs any distance. I've shot and killed many deer with shotgun, cross bow, flintlocks and rifle and never lost one even though I have had to track 3 of them. But the area I'm hunting these days is heavier cover than anywhere else that I've hunted. I want to stack the odds as much in my favor as possible.

you cant push a 44/40 fast enough (particularly in a 73) to generate the hydraulic shock that comes with a high velocity round (308 kind of thing) so you have wound channel damage and shot placement to rely on. You reckon you shoot pretty good - so look to the boolit - if your cast is a little too hard you will drill a .44 diameter hole clear through bambi and if you dont hit a vital organ or break a leg - maybe you get to do some trackin ? Test your boolit alloy until you get decent expansion at your load velocity - a one inch hole from an expanded projectile causes four times the tissue damage (in theory) than one that dont expand.
I never shot a whitetail but they dont look all that much tougher than a decent size roo - 200pound? fairly thin skin - easy enough to drill holes in em ? but a drilled one will run far enough on adrenaline to cause you some trouble finding it.

I would be casting pure soft lead if it will shoot ok and failing that as soft as you can get away with.

[smkummer]

My Lyman loading books show that standard pressure 45 colt with that bullet at 850-900 FPS in a handgun gets 1050-1100 in a rifle using unique. Using a slower powder may add 50-75 FPS more in a rifle. That should work just fine. I have a colt burgess repro and it shoots Lyman’s 454190 sized to 454 with 9 grains unique well, even out to 200 yards when I flip up the carbine ladder sight for a 24” metal plate.

[Outpost75]

At kitchen garden ranges within 50 yards, a 250-grain or heavier .45 cal. bullet, of soft lead, such as 1 to 40 tin-lead, having a meplat of 0.6 of the bullet diameter or larger, which hits the deer at 800 fps or more, will shoot clear through the deer lengthwise on "Texas heart shots" or shoot through both shoulders broadside and exit. Shot placement, through and through penetration are key. Standard pressure .45 Colt loads fired in a carbine are subsonic with mild report and will do the job if you do yours. I use the Accurate 45-264H bullet in the .45 Colt with 6.5 grains of Bullseye for 1080 fps from my H&R Handi Rifle.

265869

[cwlongshot]

Good knowledgeable recommendations above!!

I have been doing exactly what your wanting for decades. 1k-1200fps is all ya need as long as ya have chosen a proper bullet and its accurate. Last thing is limiting range. Absolute max for me is 100 and half that a ton better.

For a bullet a WFP (large 60+% meplat) is a good hunting bullet.

Powders I rely heavily upon Unique. But many others work too!

Accuracy isnt tantamount, but may be a limiting factory in distance as well.

Id choose a CAST bullet of moderate hardness. (12 ish BHN) lil Harder as ya go faster. I have found that 20:1 works good in a HP to 1200. And 1400 as a FP. WW air cooled will cover ya to about 1500. And quenched 2K.

My lead and my tests. ;)

CW

Good luck and have fun!

CW

[indian joe]

Good knowledgeable recommendations above!!

I have been doing exactly what your wanting for decades. 1k-1200fps is all ya need as long as ya have chosen a proper bullet and its accurate. Last thing is limiting range. Absolute max for me is 100 and half that a ton better.

For a bullet a WFP (large 60+% meplat) is a good hunting bullet.

Powders I rely heavily upon Unique. But many others work too!

Accuracy isnt tantamount, but may be a limiting factory in distance as well.

Id choose a CAST bullet of moderate hardness. (12 ish BHN) lil Harder as ya go faster. I have found that 20:1 works good in a HP to 1200. And 1400 as a FP. WW air cooled will cover ya to about 1500. And quenched 2K.

My lead and my tests. ;)

CW

Good luck and have fun!

CW


Why the hard lead? he wants to drop em on the spot. I woulda thought some expansion would help that happen?

[Gray Fox]

In the few places on a deer where a drop them in their tracks shot might work I doubt that boolit expansion is going to be a factor. If it is going to be into the spine I'd want a little harder boolit to ensure full penetration and damage. In my Rossi .45 Colt and 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk the Lee 255 RNFP (air-cooled WW lubed with 45-45-10) over 8.0 grains of Win 231 works well. My $.02. GF

[jimb16]

Got out with the chrono today. I don't think this load is going to do what I want. 875 fps avg. SD 7 fps. Will try some heavier loads with the same bullet and powder and see what happens. If the groups don't open up too much and I can get the vel up to 1000fps then it will work, but as it is right now, I think it is a bit underpowered.

[Conditor22]

I start low with the boolit weight I want and work up to the most accurate load for the distance I plan to shoot at.

[OverMax]

Never cared to shoot at deer with low velocity pistol cartridges as the 45 Colt is considered to be.
"Why chance a long recovery walk."

[bmortell]

i feel obligated to use what i think will be most effective. id feel weird using something very mild with far less recoil than i could still shoot well. 45acp handgun performance from a rifle would fall in that category for me.

i dont like the shot placement is all that matters argument, deer at 50 yds arent exactly tiny and a faster boolit dont mean your gonna miss it. feel like its some kind of fallacy

[indian joe]

Got out with the chrono today. I don't think this load is going to do what I want. 875 fps avg. SD 7 fps. Will try some heavier loads with the same bullet and powder and see what happens. If the groups don't open up too much and I can get the vel up to 1000fps then it will work, but as it is right now, I think it is a bit underpowered.

Really????? you should be able to get 1200with a decent blackpowder load!!!!

[sharps4590]

What indian joe said. As far as bullet is concerned, along with others I prefer a wide meplat as well. With cast bullets expansion isn't even part of my equation. That's a carry over from jacketed bullet use and I don't believe it applicable to cast bullets...solely my opinion. I'll take meplat, penetration and bullet weight every time...and I've killed a pile of game with heavy for caliber cast bullets.

[dverna]

I admire your desire to take game reliably. I have seem some posts that make me cringe. One guy neck shooting deer offhand at 100 yards with a 9mm carbine, one taking a 250 yard+ shot with a .45LC carbine...etc etc.

I cannot help you with your situation, but I would follow the advice of someone like Outpost75. Not saying others are not "worthy" but OP75 does a lot of testing and shooting and I believe he is a very reliable source of information.

As to the bullet placement argument, it is a given. You have better ability to make the shot than most, and that is a significant advantage. But Murphy is ever lurking and a well executed shot can encounter a twig when hunting in heavy cover. In my case, I hunt from blinds where there are shooting lanes cut into the woods, logging roads and/or power lines. I turn down shots that may be deflected (I use HV HP jacketed .308) as I also want clean kills. There are thick heavy swamps that make tracking "interesting".

[Drm50]

I’ve only killed one deer with 45 Colt. I have three m25-5 S&Ws. Two are set up for target loads and one set up for 250Gr traditional RNFP. I picked up wrong case and had WC pistol & Ammo. The 242gr button nose WC at 700fps, cast very soft. I shoot iron sights so I limit shots to 50yds, this one was about 30yds. It flopped around and naturally ended up 50yds down hill, but it were dead.
I have killed one deer with a 1911 Gold Cup and several with 44mg. There is no reason a 1873 in 45 Colt won’t take deer at 100yds. I only shoot 50yds with handgun because of self imposed limit.
Out of rifle 100yds is no big deal. I’ve shot many deer in eastern states. I have never shot a deer with pistol cartridge carbine or rifle. The bulk of deer shot with rifle were 35Rem/ Rem 141. Most shot on the run under 100yds. Second place 30/30. Deer ain’t Cape buffalo, your 1873 will do fine.

[smkummer]

Unique, herco, IMR 4227, blue dot and AA9 will give you about 1200 FPS with colt pressures out of your rifle. It’s not rocket science. Let us know what you go with and what your chrono says.

[Ozark mike]

22lr has takin more deer than i can count.( Not promoting that idea just saying) any .45lc load should do the job

[jimb16]

Went to the range with some more test loads today. Used a 260 gr RNFP powder coated with 2400 and 4227 powders. Found 1 load with each that gave sub 1 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards. Both loads were moderately warm. Both loads had a "flyer" that was probably me that opened the groups to just under 1 inch. The other 4 bullets cut ragged 1 hole groups of around 1/2 inch. I think those are accurate enough for my purposes. Now I need to chrono them to see if they meet a minimum 900 FPS threshold. If either of them go that fast or faster, I think I've got my new deer load.

[1Papalote]

I killed 8 axis and couple wtd with the 45 Colt, Marlin CB, Lee 255, and Unique. All were one shot kills on yearlings to a 185# buck. My limit is 75 yards but if practiced and confident, 100 yards is doable. It's my favorite open sight deer rifle. Not sure of the speed but accuracy is paramount. From a rest, clays on the 100 yard berm don't stand a chance.

[jimb16]

That is the kind of accuracy I'm looking for. I just want to have plenty of power behind it as well. Last year I took a 40 yard buck using the same 260 gr. boolit with a charge of 9 grains of Unique and dropped him in his tracks, but the accuracy of that load isn't as good as I want. I do want to be able to reach out to 100 and be sure of a clean hit as long as I do my part.

[W.R.Buchanan]

A 250 gr boolit will go clean thru an Elk in any direction at 900 fps. If you are above that you are good to go. Use a flat nosed boolit or better yet a SWC.

Randy

[kaiser]

I've killed 3 deer with a 1873 "short" rifle (20" BBL), none of them went more than a few feet before expiring. The loads I use are from 1200 to 1400fps and 100 yards is my max range for shooting because of trajectory, not power. My best, most accurate bullet is a 255gr cast bullet from a Lee mold using Unique, AA5, Blue Dot, or SR4759 powder. The .45Colt has more than enough power, but is harder to hit with at extended range and "iron" sights. The rifle's action limits the OAL and design of the bullet for easy "cycling" and functioning (SWC designs do not feed well!). The OAL length of the cartridge is more critical in a 1873 than a 1894, or 1892 action; it will NOT feed Schoffield rounds. Even with its limited range capabilities, it is a "blast" to shoot and hunt with - just get closer to use its best features. Oh, I've not recovered a bullet to see if my BIN of 12 to 14 is to soft or too hard!.

[.45Cole]

Looks like you have some pretty good answers. I took a long time studying when I was going to hunt elk with my 1894 .45, and in the end I found that:
1. monentum, a boolit with at least 250gr
2. flat meplat, large the better but at least a LBT design or a swc design (no 454190's!!!)
3. impact velocity of 850fps or better, but not too high (say 1200fps)
4. research and use point blank range method of distance with iron sights

The boolit will bust through bone and will almost always exit, leaving a large wound channel and shock from the hydrostatic pop of the flatnose. The animals seem to go less than 50yds before collapsing, so no shots around that steep mesa. Never got a shot at an elk with the .45.

[444ttd]

44spl with 255gr keith with 7.5gr of unique is a deer dropper. or a 250gr penta hp with a skeeter load. or a 44 mag with 280gr wfn and 10.0gr of unique.

i use them all in a ruger sbh and a 4 5/8" barrel. i limit myself to 50 yards. but i'm sure that it could take a deer at 100 yards.

[Static line]

A 250 gr boolit will go clean thru an Elk in any direction at 900 fps. If you are above that you are good to go. Use a flat nosed boolit or better yet a SWC.

Randy

Really? Would you believe that just last week I got my butt chewed off on another site because I shoot 255 gr. Keith SWC from my 45 Colt Marlin and suggested that to another fella to hunt White Tail with. I couldn't believe what I heard from that high post ranking expert.

[rbuck351]

I am of the bullet placement group. Put the bullet through both front shoulders and they go down where they stand, it doesn't really matter what bullet you use in 45 Colt. And at slow velocity, you can eat right up to the small hole.

[Static line]

I am of the bullet placement group. Put the bullet through both front shoulders and they go down where they stand, it doesn't really matter what bullet you use in 45 Colt. And at slow velocity, you can eat right up to the small hole.

Oh no, I don't like shooting them in the shoulders. You have to much of a chance of ruining a lot of good eating and I sure don't want to waste something that I am killing.

[cwlongshot]

Why the hard lead? he wants to drop em on the spot. I woulda thought some expansion would help that happen?
IJ,You feel 20:1 is HARD?????

Not in my world brother! Its worked for too many to count for me!

CW

[444ttd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYQBgi0TRGU

[jimb16]

Finally got out to chrono those accuracy loads. Unique, 998 FPS with a SD of 4! 4227 1012 FPS, SD of 8. 2400 1058 FPS with a SD of 12. All three loads group under 1.25 inches at 50 yards using peep sights off a sand bag. Those are 5 shot groups. Discounting the single outlier in each group, the average group size was under .70 inches for 4 shots. None of these loads are anywhere near max. I figured best accuracy would be around the 75%-80% loadings. Now my question is, which would you guys use?

[Mk42gunner]

Given your stated range and accuracy, I don't think it will make any difference at all which of the three loads you use. I seriously doubt that a difference of 60 fps will be noticeable upon impact with a deer.

While I might be inclined to try a slightly higher velocity, I think these loads will work in your particular situation. Just keep in mind you have handgun level ballistics even though you are holding a rifle in your hands.

Good Luck,

Robert

[indian joe]

IJ,You feel 20:1 is HARD?????

Not in my world brother! Its worked for too many to count for me!

CW

You wrote "moderate hardness" ...................... I went for softer the better so long as it will shoot accurate.
What point in using a boolit that will not expand when its an easy deal to soften the mix and double (or triple) the size of the hole you make???

[cwlongshot]

You wrote "moderate hardness" ...................... I went for softer the better so long as it will shoot accurate.
What point in using a boolit that will not expand when its an easy deal to soften the mix and double (or triple) the size of the hole you make???
I did then I wrote about 20:1..

NOT DISAGREEING with ya brother!!

PC allows MUCH softer alloys. And in a hunting bullet that dosent require SUPER DEEP penetration. What better then that!! The hard cast has its place. Like heavy skins & big bones, but that aint whitetails.


CW

[farmbif]

through the years ive noticed quite a few hunters use 50/50 wheel weight/pure lead and a bit of tin. pistol hunters report great success with 240-270 gr at 1200fps.
and 30-30 shooters have taken an untold number of deer through the ages with 173 grain bullet at 1800-2000 fps.

[Good Cheer]

Wait a minute...
Some people would shoot a person with a .45 Colt but not a deer?
:rolleyes:

[Good Cheer]

But I shoot a single shot so there's more flexibility in powder charges and bullet weights.
http://i.imgur.com/mxJKhI2.jpg (https://imgur.com/mxJKhI2)

[Static line]

through the years ive noticed quite a few hunters use 50/50 wheel weight/pure lead and a bit of tin. pistol hunters report great success with 240-270 gr at 1200fps.
and 30-30 shooters have taken an untold number of deer through the ages with 173 grain bullet at 1800-2000 fps.

Is that air cooled or quenched ? There is a difference in BHN. Reason I ask is not to pull your chain but I was thinking of going the 50/50 route myself for deer hunting with my 45 Colt Marlin 1894 but never could find the answer to which is better for that purpose with 50/50,air cooled or quenched. I have plenty of pure on hand that hardly gets used because I am just always going to my COWW's and air cooled. I gave up on quenching as I see no need for it in my 44 mag or 45 Colt.

[farmbif]

I'm no ace hunter but gotta assume air cooled is the way to go to get slug softer than just straight wheel weights so you get some expansion

[Static line]

I'm no ace hunter but gotta assume air cooled is the way to go to get slug softer than just straight wheel weights so you get some expansion

I've only ever quenched 50/50 and yes it came out around the same BHN as air cooled WW's. Next time I cast,I may just air cool the 50/50 and see what I get.

[smkummer]

Finally got out to chrono those accuracy loads. Unique, 998 FPS with a SD of 4! 4227 1012 FPS, SD of 8. 2400 1058 FPS with a SD of 12. All three loads group under 1.25 inches at 50 yards using peep sights off a sand bag. Those are 5 shot groups. Discounting the single outlier in each group, the average group size was under .70 inches for 4 shots. None of these loads are anywhere near max. I figured best accuracy would be around the 75%-80% loadings. Now my question is, which would you guys use?
Yep, I agree with others. You can increase that load for flatter shooting performance and still be with SAMMI specs. which is fairly low pressure. I am shooting my repro Colt/burgess with Lyman 454190 and 9 grains unique as it’s a tac driver at 100 yard ( or accurate enough for rapid fire on a 12” plate). According to Lyman, I should be getting 1150 FPS. I also shoot a 24” plate at 200 yards but I have to lift the ladder sight for that. Again if it were myself I would sight in at 100 and see where it hits at 50, 75 and 125. After that, your simply good to go.

[Static line]

Yep, I agree with others. You can increase that load for flatter shooting performance and still be with SAMMI specs. which is fairly low pressure. I am shooting my repro Colt/burgess with Lyman 454190 and 9 grains unique as it’s a tac driver at 100 yard ( or accurate enough for rapid fire on a 12” plate). According to Lyman, I should be getting 1150 FPS. I also shoot a 24” plate at 200 yards but I have to lift the ladder sight for that. Again if it were myself I would sight in at 100 and see where it hits at 50, 75 and 125. After that, your simply good to go.

With my 255 gr . WFN cast bullet that actually weighs in at 260 grains and 9 grains of Unique out of my Marlin 1894 ,45 Colt, I am averaging 1149 fps.

[Groo]

Groo here
You are getting 900fps from a 1873 rifle????????????????????????????????
The factory 45 colt is about 800 to 850 from a 4in REVOLVEER..........................
Original BP loads from a 7 1/2 colt ran 950 to 990......
If that is your "rifle " load -- it is a "Bunny Fart" one.
The BP load was known to go through a horse and hit the rider on the other side --- from a revolver.....
Any load that can hit 1000fps will be fine for 100yds or less.....

[jonp]

With the distance figure at 900-1000 fps with that boolit on the target and make a good shot

[jonp]

Wait a minute...
Some people would shoot a person with a .45 Colt but not a deer?
:rolleyes:

Ha! I'd take a run at most anything with my Blackhawk and a 260-300gr

[jimb16]

I'm going to go with the 2400 load. 1150 fps and .64 inch 50 yard groups. With decent bullet placement and that velocity it should flatten even the biggest white tail...

[W.R.Buchanan]

A .44 cal SWC will go clean thru and Elk in any direction at 900 fps. (.44 special.) Your .45 LC at 1200 fps is just fine.

The original power requirement for the .45 LC (1873)was to be able to knock down a horse which it did easily. I think it will still knock down a "todays" horse, as horses haven't gotten any tougher and the cartridge hasn't gotten any weaker.

Deer shouldn't really stand a chance and something that should be considered is,"exactly how many Deer have been shot with Win 92's in .44-40?" With 128 years behind that gun and 147 years behind both cartridges, it is hard to argue a intelligent point such as,

"it is inadequate for the purpose of shooting deer today?" Really?

I guess history classes in grade schools aren't really covering shooting and hunting from a Century and a half ago. But there is damn sure enough magazines and books on the subject, to be able to form an opinion.

I have stated here many times that there are very few cartridges that have been invented after 1963 that have made any significant impact on the shooting world. I could easily go back to 1900 without too many additions.

Thinking a 250 gr slug at any velocity beyond 1000 fps is going to bounce off your target is very short sighted.

There's a saying,,, "Any gun will do, if you will do." So don't blame the cartridge if you can't shoot !

My .02

Randy

[Harter66]

Twist ........ I have a 1-32 pending an upgrade to a 1-16" .
I had a great load for a 7.5 BlackHawk at a consistent 1025-1050.
In the M92' 18" carbine it gained nearly 200 fps to 1230-1245 fps .
I used an original round groove 454424 , NOE version @ .454-250 over 9.5 gr of Unique .
On a 165# boar hog at 17 yd a high hit behind the shoulder and the hog in a full greyhound run the bullet exited behind the off elbow , leg forward. 28" through , broke 2 ribs and about 1-1/4" of that grissely shields . It ran , already juiced up and running , about 200 yd before drowning in its own blood .

145# hog through the vitals quartering away in behind , out in front of the shoulders 20" or so at 47 yd , one full step , and collapse .

135# hog powder burn range , 10' maybe , in at the shoulder cut 2 ribs and clipped a 3rd exiting through the off ham , 38" of pig , drop in place .
Hoof weights .

Now those were great performances and very impressive . The rifle was good with the load out to 75 yd would drill softball sized targets all day long , I shot golfballs with witnesses from this forum out to 75 yd . Unfortunately that is also where it dropped through transonic and the upset caused a 30° by 10:00 line of flight departure between 78-82 yd .
Bullets were cast of WW/1-20 50/50 and water dropped , the shields suggested some expansion . The faster twist with much hotter Ruger producing 1200 fps did not display the upset well past any reasonable hand gun ranges .
The solution is to not go supersonic .

[cwlongshot]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?407302-45-colt-black-bear

Apparently 1100 fps is fast enough for this Bear...

CW

[GooseGestapo]

I don’t have much to add, but here it is....
I’ve used(and a best friend) the Lee 255gr RFN over 8.2gr of Universal for about 1,175fps from a 24” rifle barrel. I’ve shot several deer and buddy shot one. Have not lost a deer yet. Neither have we recovered a bullet either.”
Buddies deer was shot in front of chest, bullet exited ham. Complete lengthwise penetration. Ranges have been 20-70yds. I previously used somewhat heavier loads but quit after seeing the performance of these mild loads. Someone will chime in that the 8.2gr load is a little over max for the Colt SAS. However, I’ve found that it’s the minimum load that gives case obturation such that you don’t get soot blowing back through the action.

My current favorite load is a similar load using Hodgdons LongShot. It gets 980fps from my S&W M25MG,and 1,200from the Winchester M94 w/24”bbl.

[Static line]

I don’t have much to add, but here it is....
I’ve used(and a best friend) the Lee 255gr RFN over 8.2gr of Universal for about 1,175fps from a 24” rifle barrel. I’ve shot several deer and buddy shot one. Have not lost a deer yet. Neither have we recovered a bullet either.”
Buddies deer was shot in front of chest, bullet exited ham. Complete lengthwise penetration. Ranges have been 20-70yds. I previously used somewhat heavier loads but quit after seeing the performance of these mild loads. Someone will chime in that the 8.2gr load is a little over max for the Colt SAS. However, I’ve found that it’s the minimum load that gives case obturation such that you don’t get soot blowing back through the action.

My current favorite load is a similar load using Hodgdons LongShot. It gets 980fps from my S&W M25MG,and 1,200from the Winchester M94 w/24”bbl.

Being a relatively new 45 colt Marlin owner, this is the kind of hunting report that I like to read. I already have my 255 gr. WFN bullet from Accurate Molds loaded up with 9.0 grains of Unique for deer season.That yields an average of 1150 fps. out of my 1894 Marlin.