powder for 45ACP that measures the most accurately with Lee Disc

[guy_with_boolits]

trying to make the most accurate ammo I can that is still mostly automated..one of the problems I need to solve is getting the most accurately measuring powder for the Lee Disc powder measure

the ones I have been using have just happened to all be flake and seem to jump around 0.3gn case to case

I'm guessing a powder without very thin or tiny particles would do better

[kungfustyle]

There is a balance of leaking and ball powder with the Lee Disk. I used Tight group with great success, still leaked. H110 will get all over. HP38 did well.

[cwlongshot]

Most times metering issues can be with the measure more then powder.

Wash parts in soapy water and whipe with dryer sheets. You DONT WANT static.

Some flake powders can be problematic for some measures and some ball cause others to leak. (LEE shouldnt make measures or scales)

I use Redding, RCBS and older Hornady measures on my benches and by and large unless Im loading "PINCHES" of powder mine work very well.
Remember if your looking for exactly precise dumps every time. Your in a fantasy world. Closest ya can come is bump Under Chg but Still close and trickle up to the scale you want.

Good luck!

CW

[dragon813gt]

Ball powders work best. W231/HP38 will work great w/ no leaking. Fine ball powders like W296/H110 will leak all over. But you won’t be using that for loading a 45 ACP.

[onelight]

You don't mention what press you are using the pro auto disk works great on the the Lee turret press with the press in auto index .Rotation of the turret between powder drops makes it very consistent With certain powders that do not meter well in my RCBS or Lyman 55 . red dot and unique are two examples .
Powders like BE-86 and 2400 work well in all my measures as does 231 and similar grained powders the really fine powders like 296 work better In my Lyman 55 or rcbs measure they will work in the auto disk to but may leak a tiny bit at times which can accumulate over long sessions . I get some powder on the press no matter what measure I am using in long sessions (even Dillon)
I use my auto disk on my progressive with the powders that flow better than Red Dot I have different measures and presses so I use what I have found throws best for what I am doing Extruded powders I have not used in the auto disk , the cartridges I use them in take to much powder and I don't use a double disk kit . The pro auto disk is a better working measure than the base model and is worth the extra $10.00 ,It is at its best IMHO with handgun size cartridges it has the advantages and drawbacks of any of the fixed chamber measures quick to set up if you keep notes and won't change adjustment if you are consistent in your operation of the press/measure , but you are limited to the charges on the disk unless you modify the disk or use the adjustable charge bar which I don't . Really tiny charges can be difficult . Titan offers a disk for really small capacity cases that works well for some powders in small cases like 32acp .
Sorry this is so long . You question can't be honestly answered in one line like most things in reloading it is a combination of details that make the process work.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

IMR SR 7625


see post #3
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109894-Is-SR-7625-Any-Good-for-Cast-Boolits

[sutherpride59]

I’ve had pretty good luck with W231 but I’m thinking about moving to CFE pistol when it’s all used up, versatile and supposedly meters very well. Remember if you are using something like unique or trail boss those kind of powders are know for pour metering(the ability to flow through a powder measured with ease). Also I have found with some lee powder meters you really have to do a little extra work to make them work well. Ensure that the meter is going through a full stroke and give it a little time to fill all the powder and dump all the powder with a slight pause at the beginning of the press stroke and the end of the press stroke. Lee stuff works great for what it is. Also keep in mind with pistol that you are shooting at a pretty short distance, perfect isn’t really necessary for good accuracy with a pistol. If you want match ammo you will really need to step your game up with added precision tools and components.

That being said for 45acp in my XDM 5.5 competition gun I get consistent 1.5-1.75”(depends on my shooting that day) 5 round 25yard groups. I also get a variance of .3 grains when using my lee master press and the same powder charger as you. I’ve learned not to worry about it. When I miss a steel or target at 7 yards it’s because I’m going too fast or flinched during a stage not because that round has .2grains less of W231. If you want a good example weight the charge for 10 bullets then load 10 using the powder measurer and compare group sizes at the range. If it’s enough to matter then maybe look into a better powder measurer. I think you will find it is the same or that you just need to tweak your autodisk a little to get it working right.

[swheeler]

Win 231 and Acc #2 both deliver excellent charges for me in two different Lee Pro 1000.

[onelight]

Alliant BE-86 works great in the auto disk. And is a good 45 auto powder.

[Outpost75]

I've mostly run Bullseye or 452AA (until it was discontinued in 1991) and since then mostly WST in the Star machines all total for over 50 years. I prefer a fast-burning powder which attains the desired velocity with a clean burn at the lowest charge weight. HP38 and 231 are also acceptable, but neither would be my first choice.

[Pigboat]

Don't know if it would help or not but I remembered seeing this a long time ago. Took a while to find it again.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?280412-Baffles

[guy_with_boolits]

wow this is an overwhelming amount of great info!!! thanks everyone

I am using the pro auto disk measure that came with my loadmaster

I try to bang it around and exaggerate the lever motion so that things dump cleaner.

I will do my home work on all the powders mentioned above and try to get my hands on some. Of course all powders I just bought and the ones I have are not mentioned anywhere above. CFE pistol appears to be a flake powder just like the ones I am getting inconsistent drops with. However I will be a bit more scientific and try to actually measure the drop variations I am getting since they are close to the precision of my scale (tenths of grains).

My loading goal is to mass-produce 1000's of round as well as I can without per-round fiddling. So the powder dump is going to do what its going to do and I'm not going to trickle or fine tune each round. I am going to try
and help the situation be as good as it can be though (use a powder that the disc measure handles best versus one that it handles worst)

[guy_with_boolits]

Don't know if it would help or not but I remembered seeing this a long time ago. Took a while to find it again.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?280412-Baffles

yeah I've been thinking of this..I wonder if the disc measure performance varies significantly depending on how much the powder reservoir is loaded..I may test that

[tazman]

Another vote for WST and Bullseye. WST is a very clean burning powder and accurate in all my 45ACP handguns. Bullseye is very accurate as well but not as clean. Both measure very well in my system.
I use a Lee Classic cast turret press and the Lee Pro Auto Disk measure. There is a pert in the measure that can be replaced if the measure begins leaking. I have yet to replace one in thousands of rounds.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

IMR SR 7625


see post #3
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109894-Is-SR-7625-Any-Good-for-Cast-Boolits

Suspect we won't find that too often. Yes, I have some.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

TiteGroup

[kmw1954]

I load with the use of three different Lee Auto Disk measures, one is a Pro, one is a old model converted with the kit and the 3rd is an old model with the rectangle hopper that I use a Micro adjustable disk in.

With this I load Hodgdon HP-38, Accurate AA#2 and #5 and Ramshot Silhouette. I am loading 380acp, 9mm, 38Spl and 45acp using this measure and these powders. I consistently hold within .1gr and I do not mean +.1gr/-.1gr. I mean that if my target weight is 4.0gr it will consistently drop 4.0 to 3.9 gr... Very seldom do I find a heavy drop.

I tell people that these measures using these powders are to the point of being boring they are so consistent. As for leakage, I spill more than I leak.

I also started long ago in my log book to mark notes as to which cavity I used and then subsequent loading get marked with weight and cavity on their labels. For every powder and caliber used I have been able to find 2 loadings that will work well in my guns. One may be near starting load and the next near middle ground or it will be one just below middle and one near max.

This has allowed me to eliminate fooling with adjusting micrometer style powder measures. Just grab a needed cavity, drop it in the measure and away I go.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

IMR SR 7625


see post #3
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109894-Is-SR-7625-Any-Good-for-Cast-Boolits


Suspect we won't find that too often. Yes, I have some.

Yes, it's discontinued...for some time, in fact.
But Since there is reported shortages of powder on retail shelves, I figure if the OP starts searching gunshows, he might find some vintage cans....I also knew everyone else would be giving him the newest and bestest suggestions ;)

[Jniedbalski]

My lee perfect powder measure also usually Drops say 4 gr at 4 gr or 3.9 hardly ever over. It does leak some times but I just put a tray under it and dump it back in the measure.

[sutherpride59]

I bought a little disk with 4 holes in it that was 3D printed for this reason and I haven’t seen a difference. I just don’t think powder has the same flow characteristics as water to the effect that a lot of it changes the compression in the drum chamber. I could be wrong, I’m only in year two of college....at 31.... yah hopefully somebody else can say yay or nay to my findings lol.

Have you thought about using a powder cop? Might be a possible solution. Like I said though I would load up and shoot first before I start worrying about it.

[sghart3578]

Hp38/w231

[Kraschenbirn]

Back in my IPSC days, I loaded a whole bunch of .45 ACP with AA#5 using a Lee Disc Measure installed on my old Dillon 450. That was a few years back but I don't recall any significant problem(s).

Bill

[BigAlofPa.]

I lapped my powder measure. I used Mothers polish. It cut the leaking way way down. It used to leak bad with fine powders. Now and them i'll get a few flakes that come out.

[prs]

I like to use different poweders and still get consistent weights. Fine powders like BullsEye are great, but messy. My two go to ideas for the flake and granular powders is: Use one of those sheet metal baffles in the round Lee hopper and set your vibratory case cleaner on the table and turn it on. The loads will be a little heavier than your non vibrated rounds and a smaller disc may be needed.

prs

[guy_with_boolits]

tite group (still leaked)
HP38 did well
W231 no leaking
HP38 no leaking
Red dot meters well
Unique meters well
BE-86 meters well
2400 meters well
231 meters well
296 leaks a little
IMR SR 7625
W231 pretty good
Unique should flow well
Trailboss should flow well
W231 good charges
Acc #2 good charges
BE-86 great in auto disk
WST measures well
Bullseye measures well
Titegroup
HP38 +0/-.1gn
AA#2 +0/-.1gn
#5 +0/-.1gn
Ramshot Silhouette +0/-.1gn
HP38
W231

looks like HP38/W231 is the clear winner

Smashed spherical is definitely thicker than the thin flakey stuff so that should make sense as far as improvement in metering.

Hodgdon says 4.4 to 5.6gns for a 200gn LSWC ...perfect

Velocities are fine for my purposes.

Now to get my filthy little hands on some....MUHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[trixter]

I have used Bullseye for my 45 rounds and on the Lee pro Auto Disk and the when I got my 9mm kit I bought the Auto Drum measure and both have been dead on accurate with no leaks.

[guy_with_boolits]

I have used Bullseye for my 45 rounds and on the Lee pro Auto Disk and the when I got my 9mm kit I bought the Auto Drum measure and both have been dead on accurate with no leaks.

accurate like shooting or accurate like you verified with a scale

[onelight]

Just as a point of information on what I have posted about Red Dot . I used Bullseye for years and have 0 complaints it's a great old standby , what switched me to red dot was loading 32s it bulks up much more than bullseye per grain I found that with the auto disk I could throw smaller charges by weight - larger by volume with red dot than bullseye and it was very accurate for where I use it and is easier to find at my supplier in lean times than bullseye . Bullseye has a big advantage in that it is hard to find a manual for pistol ammo that does not show loads for bullseye . They are both great , bullseye works better in more measures than does red dot . Both work great in the auto disk on the LCT , on my progressive bullseye is more consistent as it is in my bench mounted measures. There are lots of good powders I think I have used about all that have been mentioned but always come back to these 2 for most of my loads that they serve well for a combination of reasons.
You have lots of good choices.

[JM7.7x58]

Warning: thread drift!

In an older worn Lyman 55, AA no.2 sometimes binds up the barrel. It is so small that it can either bind up measures, or leak from them. It’s a great powder and in a tight measure it can run wonderfully.

Bullseye doesn’t bind up my old well loved Lyman 55.

JM

[Petrol & Powder]

I can't help you with the Lee Auto disk BUT HP-38 (AKA WW231) meters perfectly in my Dillon powder measure.

I currently use ww231 / HP-38 (they are the exact same powder) in my standard 45 ACP load. When the 231 runs out I may switch to Bullseye but that may be a long time in the future.
Bullseye also meters perfectly in the Dillon.

[Gus Youmans]

guy,

The variation in charge weight with flake powder may not be as detrimental to accuracy as you think. If you are looking for the most accurate load you should also include the flake powders and test the results on paper.

During the powder shortage of 2008 about the only powder I could find was Red Dot and I bought about 15 pounds of the stuff and still have 12 pounds left. It does not meter as consistently as the more fine grain powders, so during the early stages of the stay at home phase of this pandemic I decided to test all of my powder measures (Hornady, RCBS, Lee Auto Disk, Lee Auto Drum, and Dillon) on several of my progressive presses to find which combination produced the most consistent charge weights. Sample size was 116 charges for each combination. The most consistent was the Dillon powder measure (extra small slide) on the Dillon 550 and the second was the Hornady on the Hornady Lock-n-Load press, with extreme spreads of .28 grains and .36 grains, respectively, weighed on a scale accurate to .02 grains. The least accurate was the Lee Auto Drum with an extreme spread of .52 grains. Curious to know what difference it made on target I loaded 96 rounds with new .38 Special Starline brass, 125 grain Falcon truncated cone bullets sorted by weight, and 4.0 grains of Red Dot weighed to plus/minus .02 grains and 96 rounds loaded with the Lee Auto Drum measure that were plus/minus .26 grains. At 25 yards from the Ransom Rest the weighed 16 six shot groups averaged 1.54 inches and the measured 16 six shot groups averaged 1.64 inches. The total spread for the 96 weighed shots was 2.84 inches and the total spread for the measured 96 shots was 2.96 inches. I don't have the chronograph data handy but remember that the extreme spread was in excess of 100 feet fps for the measured loads but it seemed to have little effect on target at 25 yards.

Edited to add: The target weight for all the powder measure tests was 4.0 grains because that is a load that all my .38 Specials like.

You can improve the accuracy of the Auto Disk powder measure by reducing the gap between the top of the disk and the bottom of the reservoir. File a couple of thousandths from each of the metal rails the reservoir attaches to until you can barely see light as you look across the top of the disk. Using the .61cc hole, the extreme spread went from .46 grains to .32 grains of Red Dot with a sample size of 100 charges but it also reduced the average weight per charge from 4.05 grains to 3.89 grains. Leaking with Red Dot, Bullseye, TiteGroup, and Power Pistol powders was also reduced. I have not tested any stick powders and do not know if performance with those powders will be adversely affected.

Gus Youmans

[tazman]

That is excellent information. Thanks for posting your tests and results.

[onelight]

Gus very informative post thanks.

[charlie b]

Thanks from me too.

I also use the Lee Disk measure on a Loadmaster. I have used mostly AA 2, 5, and 7 along with TiteGroup. All work fairly well and all leak a little (not enough for me to worry about, just kind of a dust left over). They all measured well, after I changed out the bead chain on the powder measure. I use a spring now. Hook it to the powder measure and the other end is secured to the frame of the Loadmaster. Spring is about 1/2" dia and 4" or so long, kinda soft. Just enough to reset the measure. I got tired of the bead chain getting out of whack or breaking.

[megasupermagnum]

It should be no secret that fine ball powders will meter more accurately than large flake powders. Sure, Accurate #5 will meter extremely accurately. The problem for me is that ball powders have never been quite as good as flake powders, even though the flake powders vary slightly more from the measure. Don't go to a ball powder, just because. Find one that shoots good, and use it. Myself, I just accept the flake powder variation, as I never could get a ball powder to be more accurate. I use American Select. While it doesn't shoot as good in my gun, one of the better ball powders is HS-6.

[guy_with_boolits]

Gus Youmans

thanks great info

[ReloaderEd]

Clays powder works good in the auto disc and I have no trouble with bullseye or unique. You can tap the auto disc on the side or lift the press handle just a little and then down to tap the auto disc to assure all powder has dropped. I use a powder check die that will tell me right away of there is to much or to little of a powder charge..

[Gus Youmans]

Earlier in this thread, I posted the results of a test of the effects of weighed versus measured charges of Red Dot in the .38 Special, finding that there was little difference. Last weekend I decided to run a similar test with .45 ACP. Using Starline once fired brass, RCBS 185 SWCBB bullets, Federal primers, and Red Dot powder I weighed powder charges for 50 rounds at 4.0 grains plus/minus .02 grains. Another 50 rounds were loaded using the .61cc hole in the Lee Auto Disk powder measure that averaged .39 grains plus or minus .16 grains with a standard deviation of .06 grains and extreme spread of 4.04 to 3.72 grains, or .32 grains.

The gun was a little used hardball gun that is mostly a safe queen. Firing five, ten shot groups out of the Ransom Rest at 25 yards, groups with the weighed charges averaged 1.36 inches (1.07 to 1.68 inches) and the measured charges averaged 1.77 inches (1.15 to 2.47 inches), including an obvious unexplained flier in the largest group that was .6 inches outside the group. Additionally, groups with the weighed charges were generally rounder than the measured charges. Ninety-eight of the shots went into a group of 1.94 inches with one round opening the group to 2.23 inches and the obvious flier further opening the group to 2.54 inches. Without the two errant shots the group would have held the X-ring on a standard bullseye target but all shots would have been in the ten ring.

Velocities were measured with a Chrony at about ten feet. The rounds loaded with the Auto Disk showed dispersion of 47 fps versus 75 fps for the weighed charges, which seems counterintuitive given that the groups were smaller with the weighed charges. However, standard deviation for the measured charges was 14.23 while the weighed charges was 13.30, seemingly indicating that standard deviation may be more indicative of accuracy than extreme spread. The average velocity of the measured charges was 821 while the average velocity for the weighed charges was 824, a difference of only three fps.

Given this limited test, it seems that the .45 ACP is more sensitive to powder charge fluctuation than the .38 Special. However, these results only apply to the guns and loads used in this experiment as any change in the guns, loads, components and reloading equipment would likely produce different results. The only real conclusion that I can discern from this experiment is that any changes to components, techniques, or equipment are probably going to produce different results and, if the reloader is seeking the most accurate loads, he must test to ascertain if the changes will adversely affect the outcome.

Gus Youmans

[DonHowe]

This is NOT meant to disparage anyone but....
Even given the normal charge-to-charge variation with flake powders (Bullseye, Red Dot, erc) thrown from measures, well assembled .45 ACP ammunition will surpass the accuracy potential of all but accursed pistols and all but a small percentage of shooters. Pick the powder that is least problematic in your measure (or get a better measure) and don't get about it.

[Kevins750]

I dug out and old lee auto disc and sanded the disc flat, colored the top and bottom with pencil graphite and use bullseye with no leaks.

I will admit I don't shoot pistol for accuracy, but it drops around 4.2 grs almost always

[kmw1954]

Right now today I am using a Lee Pro Auto Disk on a Lee 3 hole turret press to work up a load using a 200gr cast bullet and 6.0gr of Ramshot Silhouette. I don't recall which cavity it is but I suppose that really doesn't matter. Again my goal set point is 6.0 gr of this powder and at this time the measure hopper is about 1/4 the way full as I am now finishing off a bottle of powder and don't want to open a new jar yet.

Even with this low powder level in the Lee measures hopper it is holding consistently at 6.0gr. though as the hopper fill level diminishes I am seeing more loads at 5.95gr. and I can say this because while developing test loads I do weigh every dropped charge in my Lyman D5 balance scale that has a indicator at the pointer that shows over under in .1gr increments.

So more-so than the accuracy or consistency of the measure I have to surmise the consistency of the powder volume.

[ReloaderEd]

That sir is a great idea. thank you