.323 jacketed down to .318

[stevengs]

Newbe here.i hope this is correct forum.I have a german 1888 commission rifle ,bore dia.318 and a supply of .323 jacketed projoes and boxer primed brass which i would like to resize to .318 and need advise or referrals for this project. Also need to know if my reloading dies,".323" can be used to properly seat and crimp this .318 ammo.Thanks for any ideas.

[MT Chambers]

You would prolly need swaging equip. to reduce jacketed bullet size, your dies prolly won't work either. I'd buy 8mm/.318" dies and use cast boolits that you can get molds for and size and lube on Lyman/RCBS or Star equip.

[MT Chambers]

C-H among others make 8mm .318" dies, woodliegh makes .318" bullets, sounds expensive so I'd go with cast boolits and the proper dies.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

An interesting question which may bring controversy. I have 6 of these rifles, but have never fired .323" jacketed bullets in them. I see that you're contemplating sizing .323" down to .318". I would advise against it. Save them as they are for the .323 bore Mausers.

In WW I, the GEW 88 was a second line reserve rifle that was often used in combat when the '98 Mauser was in short supply. The issue round during the war was of .323" diameter, and hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of them, were fired through the '88s.
There is no record of blowups having been a common thing, if they happened at all, but it was enough of a concern to Remington that the commercial hunting ammo they produced for years was of .321" diameter. It was also "loaded down" and wasn't satisfactory in the '98 (undersized and underpowered) or in the '88. This was jacketed soft point hunting ammo in the old green and red boxes.

Bearing in mind the age of these rifles, I never wanted to try them with anything but cast, for which I use the Lee bullet, and moderate loads of IMR-4895. I've had good luck with this combo. I size them to .321". Just as a general rule of thumb, I've found that .002" over a slug verified bore size is a good place to start. I use the regular 8x57mm reloading dies in loading these, RCBS if it matters.

I also bought a couple of hundred .318" jacketed round nose bullets, but invested in a spendy set of RCBS custom dies for that project.

Welcome to the Forum!

[clodhopper]

The difference is .005 inches.
If you can get a .318 bullet size die run a few through and see how they shoot. Don't forget to use some lube!
If you do go to cast, you might need that .318 size die anyway.

[Outpost75]

Jacketed bullets for the .32 Winchester Special run .320" and have a thin jacket and soft core to squeeze down easily. The same bullet is factory loaded in US 8mm sporting ammunition in a mild charge which is safe for the 1888 Commission rifles. I would just swap your .323 bullets for .320" .32 Winchester Special projectiles and use those. Or get a mold to cast the correct .318-.320" bullets for your Commission rifle. Before doing so I would cast your chamber to determine that the chamber neck has adequate release clearance, and also to determine the chamber throat and barrel groove diameters.

[littlejack]

Stevengs:
Welcome to the forum.
A few years back, I acquired a couple hundred .322, 200 grain RNFP bullets. IIRC, they are PPC manufacture. Anyway, I loaded some up for my 8mm-06 Ack. Imp; but they did not shoot well at all. Considering that I had the chamber throated for the longer 200 grain soft point bullets, and the .322 diameter, that did not surprise me.
So, I decided to try to size them down to fit the .313 bore of my Mosin-Nagant. I had/have a Lee .314 push through sizer. I did the sizing on my RockChucker press. I lubed the bullets with anhydrous lanolin. I adjusted the die high enough that so that the most leverage at the top of the stroke was used. After making the first stroke, I would adjust the die down 3-4 turns, and push the bullet further. After about 3 adjustments, the bullet pushed on through. After all the bullets were run through, I replaced the die with a .311 die I had polished out to .3127, and repeated the process. The final diameter came out to .3137 +/- .001. I loaded some up and headed to the range. Wah-lah, these shot 2-3 inch groups in the Mosin rifle. Not to bad for a model 44 carbine with a 20" barrel.
Anyway, IMHO, the .323 could be sized to .318, if you have a proper press.
Regards

[sharps4590]

Yes, .323's can be swaged down to .318, as littlejack described taking them down even farther. .009 is a bit more than is normally accepted but obviously it worked for him. I have a few 8mm German rifles with .318 groove diameters and most of them get cast bullets. In the mix is a Vierordt double rifle in 8 X 65R Brenneke. Try as I might I could not make the rifle regulate with cast bullets...of any weight, shape, velocity or diameter. A friend made me a .319 die to fit a loading press and I regularly swage down .323 bullets to .319 using my Rock Chucker. I recently acquired bullet swaging equipment but to have a set of dies made for .318 bullets is prohibitively expensive for no more bullets than I'll ever need. I just wish Sierra, Hornady, Speer or anyone else made 200 gr. round nose bullets that were affordable. I'll make them fit. Woodleigh's are available but goodness...at what price? I don't need to spend that much to kill a deer or hog.

[uscra112]

Outpost took the words right outta my mouth. I have a beautiful German singleshot circa 1912 that needs the smaller bullet. I used .32 Win bullets for some testing when I first got it, and they shot fine unsized. Since then it's been all cast bullets that I size .319 with White Label lube. Hafta admit I don't shoot it much. It's a museum piece, for one thing, but also it is very light, so recoil is "noticeable" even with moderate loads.

[smithnframe]

I have re-sized hundreds of .338 jacketed bullets down to .329 for a Steyr M 95 with a Lee push through sizer with no problem whatsoever!

[uscra112]

There's a pretty good argument to be made that sizing down jacketed bullets risks detaching the jacket from the core due to difference in the springback of the two materials.

[Bent Ramrod]

The jacket spring back may happen when bullet diameters are reduced, but unless you’re a benchrest competitor, it will likely have no effect on the shooting.

I had a Remington Model 8 with a 0.260” groove diameter barrel that would throw the usual 0.257” jacketed bullets all over the target at 50 yards. An outfit called DKT offered 0.260” bullets at about a buck apiece, and they shot very well. But since I couldn't afford many of them, I made a die to swage 0.263”-0.264” 6.5mm bullets down to 0.260” in my Rock Chucker press, and they shot groups that were just as small as the DKT bullets.

[uscra112]

The jacket spring back may happen when bullet diameters are reduced, but unless you’re a benchrest competitor, it will likely have no effect on the shooting.

I had a Remington Model 8 with a 0.260” groove diameter barrel that would throw the usual 0.257” jacketed bullets all over the target at 50 yards. An outfit called DKT offered 0.260” bullets at about a buck apiece, and they shot very well. But since I couldn't afford many of them, I made a die to swage 0.263”-0.264” 6.5mm bullets down to 0.260” in my Rock Chucker press, and they shot groups that were just as small as the DKT bullets.

Judging by the comments here, looks like you're right.

[littlejack]

I have a "theory" about that subject. Bare with me, I could be way off base, and trying to be to logical.
In my case, sizing down the .322 bullets to .3127. The bullet comes out of the die at .3137. So, I'm assuming there is .001 spring back. So, for all practical purposes, there is .0005 gap between the core and jacket. Ok, the core is loose in the jacket, yes? As the bullet is fired, the core acts as an obstruction in the jacket, and the jacket pushes up tight against the core. Then after the bullet is pushed into the rifling, one bullet bearing surface in depth, the jacket and core are again squeezed back together with no gap between the two. That's not to say that the core and jacket are bonded, just no gap between them. Just my theory.
If anyone else has their own theory, I would love to hear them.
Ya got to love this stuff.
Regards

[303Guy]

I have pondered this very question with regard to the 303 Brit. I can get .310, .311 and .312 bullets. Wonderful. Now what do I do about my real world Lee Enfields with bores of .307 and grooves of .318, never mind the throat sizes? That would be easy - size down 8mm bullets. Now all I have to do is find an 8mm bullet! But the thing is, I was concerned about spring back and loose cores. But thinking about it, the core would be fairly soft, plenty soft to upset to fit the jacket on firing, I would think. The comments above seem to confirm this.

OP, it has been suggested to simply shoot cast in your rifle and that is a good suggestion but if you are looking for jacketed performance you do have the option of paper patching. It is challenging but does open more options and can be quite satisfying. In fact, it can be quite fun.

[Stephen Cohen]

I think Littlejack made a good point and may well be right on the money. 303Guy I guess it depends what one calls jacketed performance, I know I can get the same velocity as military ammo in the 303 Brit using cast and Hi-Tek coating but I think for hunting applications that kind of velocity is not needed in my view, but more to the OPs question, I have some 323 jacketed I purchased for the exact reason the OP mentioned and hope to try this when I get my 318 die. Regards Stephen