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Rizzo
07-30-2020, 01:15 PM
So, from Genesis in the Bible, God created the heavens and the earth, created Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel were their sons, Cain killed Abel, then God "cursed" Cain and Cain went on to the Land of Nod where he married and had children of his own.

OK, so, apparently there were other people on earth at that time that the Bible does not address. No other mention of the Land of Nod is mentioned in the Bible.

So, where did these other people come from? The Bible does not say and we are left to imagine that for ourselves.

Given that the ages of Cain and Abel, or the ages of Adam and Eve are not mentioned at this point we could "assume" that perhaps Adam and Eve had other children, who may have also had children and they developed a civilization in the Land of Nod, where Cain found his wife.
We do know from the Bible that Adam lived 800-900 years I believe, so that may be the answer....but we really do not know.

The name Adam can be translated into the word man, or mankind.

I suspect that Genesis was worded for the people of that time so that there would be some understanding of how the earth and mankind came to be and how God was the Creator.

I also suspect that all of the races (Adam - mankind) were created at the same time at different places all over the world.
Dark skinned people with "nappy" hair (African), light skinned with blonde hair, blue eyes in the Scandanavian countries, slant eyed people with "yellow" skin (Asia), bold facial bones, "red skin" and straight black hair (American Indian), etc., etc., hardly seem the result of procreation of Adam and Eve to me, or from Noah's family for that matter.

I have read where some think that the races "happened" at the time of the Tower of Babel incident, when the different languages came to be, but again, we do not know and it is only speculative because The Bible does not say.

The Land of Nod and the origin of the different Races.
What's your thoughts or opinions on the above?

flyingmonkey35
07-30-2020, 01:51 PM
Simple

More then one seed ship landed on the planet.

God was a being who created mankind in his likeness. And then stuck around for a while.

This falls into the aliens seeded the earth.

The bible is rife with UFO sightings.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Snow ninja
07-30-2020, 05:30 PM
As people moved outward, they had to evolve to their different regions. That's why African people are dark skinned. Their bodies create more melanin because they were in the sun more. As people moved, their skin and hair changed. Because they adapted to where they were.

Der Gebirgsjager
07-30-2020, 05:44 PM
That's odd... I think my bible says that the different races descended from the children of Noah, and is pretty specific about which children were the fathers of which races. But-- you have to read that far to find it.

Everyone who wasn't on the ark drowned. So whatever Cain did was of no consequence.

dverna
07-30-2020, 06:03 PM
That's odd... I think my bible says that the different races descended from the children of Noah, and is pretty specific about which children were the fathers of which races. But-- you have to read that far to find it.

Everyone who wasn't on the ark drowned. So whatever Cain did was of no consequence.

Which makes the different races an even more perplexing question. Especially for those who believe in a young earth...like my pastor does.

1hole
07-30-2020, 06:51 PM
Which makes the different races an even more perplexing question. Especially for those who believe in a young earth...like my pastor does.

Perplexing? The Bible is a spiritual book, it's not a science or history of the world book so there's a lot of things it doesn't address. Do you think man's questions of the origins of races and young vs. old earth are vital spiritual issues?

tankgunner59
07-30-2020, 07:02 PM
Go back and read about the children of Noah, Shem, Ham and Japheth. After the Ark landed and they were able to disembark, they went to different lands.

Ickisrulz
07-30-2020, 08:38 PM
If you take this story as being a historical fact:

It was early in the history of man's creation. Abel had no children at this point. Cain and Abel were most likely the same age as the Bible suggests they were twins. Therefore, Cain probably had no children at this point either.

Cain's complaint that other people would kill him looked to the future when the earth would be more populated and he had become notorious for his crime. Some might want justice.

Placing a name on where Cain went (i.e., The Land of Nod) could have been for the original audience of Genesis who knew where that place was or had heard of it (the area was antediluvian, of course). The word "Nod" means to wander. So this area could have been named for Cain's wanderings. On the other hand, it might not have been a physical location at all, just a playful term (e.g., think of someone in La La Land).

JWFilips
07-30-2020, 09:10 PM
That Is where Extra-terrestializm Shines! Those folks were white ( supposedly) And they were the the progenitors of the colored races! I think not!
There were more forces involved in civilization & some not good beings!

Ickisrulz
07-30-2020, 09:12 PM
That Is where Extra-terrestializm Shines! Those folks were white ( supposedly) And they were the the progenitors of the colored races! I think not!
There were more forces involved in civilization & some not good beings!

Where in the world did you ever get the idea that the Bible presents early humans as white?

Der Gebirgsjager
07-30-2020, 09:13 PM
Which makes the different races an even more perplexing question. Especially for those who believe in a young earth...like my pastor does.

Is a " Young Earth" the teaching that mankind has only been around for 6k years, or that the planet is only 6k years old?

For myself, I feel that the two aren't necessarily incompatible, as "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth...." and that doesn't say how far back the beginning was. Creation occurred on successive "days", but we're not told how long a day is. The Bible does say that "A day to God is like a thousand years." So, the planet could well have existed for many millions of years before the creation of man, and that fact seems to be borne out by modern science such as carbon dating and fossils.

That does not preclude the possibility that at some point God introduced man into the Earth's ecosystem, and it may well have been 6k years ago. But, but, but, but...what about the earlier species such as the Neanderthal Man, the Piltdown Man, and other species that walked erect? Where are they? Extinct, if they ever existed, and some of them proven to be clever frauds. But, let's suppose that some of them did exist. They are not "Us", not "Homo Sapiens", which is what the Biblical history is about. As for the emergence of different races, the different genes had to be present in Noah's children. How can that be? (1) Anything is possible with God. If he created us, he can modify us. (2) Obviously there was a certain amount of interbreeding going on, as there were so few people remaining to repopulate the Earth. Physical traits will intensify with interbreeding, with certain characteristics that are dominant being repeated until they are the norm. Witness the racial differences, the difference in shape of the eyes and skin color.

It troubles me greatly that so many questions are being asked on the "Deep Theological Discussion" and "Chapel" forums that come from completely out in left field. I certainly don't mind discussing my beliefs with those who are sincere and hold a somewhat different view, but flat out ignorant statements that are made to start a discussion/argument bother me. The questions are, is the O.P. really that ignorant, or actually a troll trying to start religious conflict? Kind of like inserting ANTIFA into a "Peaceful Demonstration." Instead of seeking knowledge, some may be trying to start conflict among those who should be brothers. It is insightful that several of these O.P.s don't post to other areas of the forum. Since the "Left" is not religiously inclined, one has to wonder if these folks have decided to attack our beliefs, culture, and heritage from that angle. I guess I'm suspicious by nature, but, dverna, I'd read up on casting bullets before I asked you a serious question about bullet molds---get my point?

I know that we have atheists, agnostics, animists, and probably devil worshipers on the forum. Not my concern--do as you will. But I believe in the Holy Bible and its teachings. They aren't too complicated if you read the verses slowly and then say to yourself, "Now exactly what does that mean?" There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything, isn't there? Thousands of examples spring to mind. Plant your seeds too deep, they won't come up. Burner is too hot your food will burn. Don't maintain the oil level in your car's engine and it will burn up. The Bible says that there is one way to salvation, and that is through Christ, and that is the correct and only way.

Those that repeatedly assert that the way is through Buddha ,Confucius, Islam, Tao, any or all, all of equal value, are in grave error. How do they know? Been there and done that? On the other hand, the Bible had made numerous prophesies that have come true, and archeologists continue to unearth proof of events recorded in the scriptures. Truly, we seem to be a bit into "the end times." Just as I can not say how long a Genesis day is, I can not predict when the Lord will return, but when he does there will be a lot of people with egg on their faces. Beware of those who answer your beliefs with a question (time after time), as they are trying to shake your faith. Their self-perceived intellectual arrogance blinds them to the truth, and they want company.
I do not answer them, as it is fruitless. I know who they are, and who sent them.

Best wishes.

DG

country gent
07-30-2020, 09:20 PM
I would look to the story of the Tower of Babble. when the tower got to a certain height the workers languages changed to confuse and slow stop progress and completion.

1hole
07-31-2020, 09:26 AM
Excellent post DG. You express my own thoughts on disingenuous web grumble rousers much better than I can.

I try to not respond to their baiting, and usually succeed, but sometimes things are posted that are so dumm I can't stop myself. Almost invariably it's a transparent effort intended to provide the rouser a podium for pontificating of his own presumed intelectual magnificence. It would be better if we (and I mean "I") would avoid helping them .... but I'm weak and sometimes it's just too much nonsense to resist exposing it!

Der Gebirgsjager
07-31-2020, 10:39 AM
I think that the religious trolls are not after you and I, well grounded in the faith. Their goal is to cast doubt into the minds of those new to the faith or those considering conversion. I've read the "bait" original post to many threads and just turned away, but like you have said, "sometimes it's just too much nonsense to resist exposing it."

One line of attack seems to be that Christ is only one answer, that many other answers exist. Kind of like the Democrats to whom solutions to economic and social problems don't really have a definite, defined answer. No, no, it's not Him...look over here....it's him and him and him! The Bible warns against false prophets and those who come in His name, but are deceivers. The sad condition of our present society has a lot to do with the work done by deceivers, turning people away from God. No morals or ethics in homes, schools, or government.

Rizzo
07-31-2020, 01:33 PM
It troubles me greatly that so many questions are being asked on the "Deep Theological Discussion" and "Chapel" forums that come from completely out in left field. I certainly don't mind discussing my beliefs with those who are sincere and hold a somewhat different view, but flat out ignorant statements that are made to start a discussion/argument bother me.

Let me explain something to your ignorant, insulting self.
You post your "Wall of Text" that is a a bunch of crying from you about how you do not like this Thread topic and others and you go on to insult the OP (me) and other members who have started threads.
If you do not like the Thread Topic, do not participate. It is pretty simple.

I happen to enjoy reading and replying to threads here in this Forum.
As a member here I start thread topics on things that I am personally interested in because either I do not understand the issue or feel it would be a good topic for discussion.
Some are provocative topics that inspire some thought and hopefully a reply.
They help keep this Forum alive with conversation and an exchange of different views.

I haven't seen any Threads started by you in this Forum to help keep things alive here. Yet you complain about other's posts.

The questions are, is the O.P. really that ignorant, or actually a troll trying to start religious conflict?
Trolling???
I guess you could say that starting a thread to get a conversation started is trolling, but I wouldn't.


Instead of seeking knowledge, some may be trying to start conflict among those who should be brothers. It is insightful that several of these O.P.s don't post to other areas of the forum. Since the "Left" is not religiously inclined, one has to wonder if these folks have decided to attack our beliefs, culture, and heritage from that angle.

Wow, you're out there DG. Pretty paranoid I would say.
Regarding posting in other areas, I have seen in the other forums posts from a lot of members that participate here. Many have started Threads (including myself) and others are active in those threads so I would say you are wrong there.


I know that we have atheists, agnostics, animists, and probably devil worshipers on the forum. Not my concern--do as you will.
Uh-huh, yet it really bothers you when folks here express their views and beliefs that are different from you and you post your insults about them.


But I believe in the Holy Bible and its teachings. They aren't too complicated if you read the verses slowly and then say to yourself, "Now exactly what does that mean?"
And that brings us to one of the Thread Topics....The Land of Nod.
Something that you did not address in your crying Wall of Text.
Nod has always been a mystery to me despite how "slowly" and how many times I've read it.
So I brought it to this Forum to get other views.
Since you seem to understand these things, why not contribute your view/opinion on the issue?


Those that repeatedly assert that the way is through Buddha ,Confucius, Islam, Tao, any or all, all of equal value, are in grave error. How do they know?
Well, how do you know they are wrong? Because from reading the Bible you conclude that?
Wouldn't your statement also be what the "others" would say about Christianity?
My Book is better than your book! My Book has better stories than your Book!
Ignorance!


Their self-perceived intellectual arrogance blinds them to the truth, and they want company.
I do not answer them, as it is fruitless. I know who they are, and who sent them.

Yet, here you are doing exactly that.

Rizzo
07-31-2020, 01:35 PM
Excellent post DG. You express my own thoughts on disingenuous web grumble rousers much better than I can.

I try to not respond to their baiting, and usually succeed, but sometimes things are posted that are so dumm I can't stop myself. Almost invariably it's a transparent effort intended to provide the rouser a podium for pontificating of his own presumed intelectual magnificence. It would be better if we (and I mean "I") would avoid helping them .... but I'm weak and sometimes it's just too much nonsense to resist exposing it!
That's funny to me.
I try to avoid posting replies to you for similar reasons.
You and others here seem to just want to have Deep Theological Discussions amongst those of "you" (plural) that think the same. Wouldn't that be nice?
You could reply to each other with just Chapter:Verse numbers and it would be wonderful.
I think it would be boring.

Yet, there are some here that have different beliefs and participate in the conversations and they are
"disingenuous web grumble rousers" according to you.
Just another insulting comment from you as usual.

Rizzo
07-31-2020, 01:40 PM
I think that the religious trolls are not after you and I, well grounded in the faith. Their goal is to cast doubt into the minds of those new to the faith or those considering conversion. I've read the "bait" original post to many threads and just turned away, but like you have said, "sometimes it's just too much nonsense to resist exposing it."

One line of attack seems to be that Christ is only one answer, that many other answers exist. Kind of like the Democrats to whom solutions to economic and social problems don't really have a definite, defined answer. No, no, it's not Him...look over here....it's him and him and him! The Bible warns against false prophets and those who come in His name, but are deceivers. The sad condition of our present society has a lot to do with the work done by deceivers, turning people away from God. No morals or ethics in homes, schools, or government.
Well, you have taken this Thread way off topic with your ignorant ramblings and crying.
Start your own thread and quit ******** in mine.

JWFilips
07-31-2020, 02:16 PM
Where in the world did you ever get the idea that the Bible presents early humans as white?

From Hollywood of course!:grin:

dverna
07-31-2020, 02:27 PM
It seems some questions are deemed unworthy by those who have reached a more advanced stage in their spiritual journey. Questioning is encouraged in the Bible. If you are unable or unwilling to address questions, please try to be kinder to those who are struggling along the path. Being farther along the path does not make you superior and God will not appreciate arrogance from anyone....not even a believer.

country gent
07-31-2020, 04:42 PM
A true Shepard guides the flock

Snow ninja
07-31-2020, 05:38 PM
This is my problem with this part of the forum, and I've stated it before several times. They don't want a "discussion" unless it 100% aligns with what they already believe. As Don said, they don't take into account that we're all on our own spiritual journey, and some of us are still trying to find our way. Just because we ask a question that may be different than your view on things, doesn’t mean that we are trolling. I have questions, and if you can’t answer them without just saying I’m being ignorant and trolling, then maybe you need to look at why you can’t answer them. As I said before, blind faith does not work for me. It seems that to be included in this group discussion, you need to be on rung 67 of the holier than thou ladder.

Der Gebirgsjager
07-31-2020, 05:57 PM
You can not begin a thread by telling a lie.
You can not intelligently discuss a subject if you are not familiar with it.
You can not own a thread and not expect others to comment, especially when you start with a lie and are unfamiliar with the subject matter.
This thread, and others like it, do not advance knowledge or the forum, since starting from a place of nowhere will end up nowhere.
Your purpose is not to learn, it is to be a provocateur. However, it would seem that others agree with your approach---so, enjoy.

MT Gianni
07-31-2020, 06:11 PM
This thread has explained a lot to me. I now see how a baseball umpire can call someone out when to my eyes and ears they clearly beat the ball to the base. This is a way of saying that I disagree with what the OP has put forward as facts after reading the same verses I have.

1hole
07-31-2020, 07:30 PM
Snow, do you really think Christians demand everyone else agree on every jot and tittle? Not at all! Truth is, we strongly disagree on a lot of jots and tittles but we all agree on essential Christian principles; if we don't hold to crucial doctrines as truth we can't rightly call ourselves Christian can we?!

I'll use different paths to illustrate why we don't/won't take wildly divergent views of Biblical truths seriously. You probably know a lot of people truly believe the world is flat; many believe man has not been to the moon; many believe life on earth is going to burn to a crisp if we don't quite driving autos and heating our homes but none of that is true, it's nonsense. So, those of us who know otherwise simply cannot honestly pretend to "respect" known wrong views; nope, that just ain't gonna happen.

Christians can (and usually do) respect mistaken individuals in person but we don't/can't respect their wrong "beliefs" and it's unfair of them to expect us to do differently; please understand, this Christian stuff is serious.

To the offended others I say we are living in different worlds because their "make believe" spiritual games have no serious place in reality. A big problem the mistaken often fall into is assuming anyone who disagrees with them is, ipso facto, some kind of "hater" and that's also dumm.

Omega
07-31-2020, 07:31 PM
So I have been watching some youtubes, their premise is that there was an advanced race here before the current race, whether they looked like us or just somewhat resembled us I don't know. Of course those so inclined lean aliens, but I tend to lean human, just more advanced, or at the most, a different evolutionary branch of human. But a bunch of unexplained tech has been used to build structures that our current tech would have problems with, even today, and it is under structures built by subsequent civilizations which is not as refined as that which it is built upon. This type of evidence is seen across the globe, Egypt, Asia, South America etc, and similar enough that it would make you think they had some sort of communication with each other.

So what does this have to do with the bible you say?, well, IMO, many of the stories that they were written by a people that did their best to explain what was passed down to them orally and what they may have experienced themselves. So Eden, Land of Nod, heck even Atlantis may have existed well before the surviving peoples learned to write again.

dtknowles
07-31-2020, 10:12 PM
That's odd... I think my bible says that the different races descended from the children of Noah, and is pretty specific about which children were the fathers of which races. But-- you have to read that far to find it.

Everyone who wasn't on the ark drowned. So whatever Cain did was of no consequence.

I know that maybe you believe God can do the impossible and I do too but is seems unlikely that God created enough water to submerge the mountain peaks all over the world. The great flood did not kill everyone who was not on the Ark.

Where did the water go when the flood receded?

Tim

dtknowles
07-31-2020, 10:13 PM
Perplexing? The Bible is a spiritual book, it's not a science or history of the world book so there's a lot of things it doesn't address. Do you think man's questions of the origins of races and young vs. old earth are vital spiritual issues?

Anything that cast doubt about the accuracy of the Bibles is a vital spiritual issue.

Tim

flyingmonkey35
07-31-2020, 11:35 PM
Where did the water go when the flood receded?

Tim[/QUOTE]


I don't want to hijack this thread. So I will give you a thought on that one.

What if it's just a story that was told about animal merchant priest named Noah that was on a boat that got swept out to sea in a great storm.

And after land fall his family eventually broke off and separated.

Thus a legend was born


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Thundarstick
08-01-2020, 05:24 AM
What if it all true, but it's lost to us because WE can't explain it? What if the earth was a very different place before the flood of Noah and things we think of as normal today where abnormal prior to the flood? What if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if, and on and on.

dverna
08-01-2020, 08:14 AM
Anything that cast doubt about the accuracy of the Bibles is a vital spiritual issue.

Tim

Tim,
You have gone to the core of what upsets many people...and that is the inerrancy of the Bible. If one part is not "true", then what other parts may not be "true". It is what kept me an atheist for many decades.

I now have faith in God but that does not require me to accept every verse in the Bible as 100% correct. Many who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible wind up doing handstands to justify their position and the most common rationalization is that we do not know what we do not know. They use that thinking to dismiss what we do know.

Should we accept Genesis as 100% fact? I cannot.
Should we accept slavery as acceptable and honor our masters? I cannot.
Should we accept the authority of a government even if it unjust or evil? I cannot.
And so on and so on.

Even scholars disagree on the meaning of parts of the Bible. Are they stupid or just ignorant? If highly intelligent people who believe in God disagree, what does that tell us? The United Methodist church has been torn apart by the issue of gays and I know people on both sides of the issue who honor the Lord. We have over a thousand Christian denominations...why...if the Bible is so pure and simple.

Those who say they know the Word, know it within their frame of reference. They may ignore, or worse rationalize, what does not make sense. And there is nothing wrong with that if it brings them closer to God. God has given us a way to salvation that does not require we understand everything in the Bible. That works for me.

If I had to believe in every word written (literally) in Genesis, I would still be an atheist. I cannot believe the universe was not created in six 24 hours days....but that is irrelevant to having faith in God.

1hole
08-01-2020, 09:39 AM
Even scholars disagree on the meaning of parts of the Bible. Are they stupid or just ignorant? If highly intelligent people who believe in God disagree, what does that tell us?

"Scholars" are people, they can be just as silly and/or dishonest as anyone else. Just because some people study scripture as literature doesn't make them Christian, nor do many such egg-heads have much common sense.

Many highly intelligent people have the same social and professional (ego) pursuits as the rest of us and some of them love to drag red herring distractions across the trail to make themselves seem smarter than they are.


The United Methodist church has been torn apart by the issue of gays and I know people on both sides of the issue who honor the Lord.

I know some of those people too; remember that not all Christians are sweet nor are all non-believers jerks.

The UMC as it exists today is, like our government education system, dominated by ultra-liberal social scientist non-believers. They are largely driven by what they want (and demand) to be true no matter how much scripture says otherwise.

It's true that there are quite a few Biblical topics that are less than clear. Thus, we may honestly vary about what they mean but homosexuality is not one of them. Some folk are Biblically ignorant and many folk just lie but there is no way for anyone who knows what he's talking about to honestly say the Bible is less than totally clear on that topic.


We have over a thousand Christian denominations...why...if the Bible is so pure and simple.

That "over a thousand Christian denominations" is an oft mentioned figure but it's just another of the egg-head's lies. To get to that level requires that every independent or non-aligned congregation is another denomination; that's not true and the people who proclaim it know they're lying.

dtknowles
08-01-2020, 10:12 AM
Tim,
You have gone to the core of what upsets many people...and that is the inerrancy of the Bible. If one part is not "true", then what other parts may not be "true". It is what kept me an atheist for many decades.

I now have faith in God but that does not require me to accept every verse in the Bible as 100% correct. Many who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible wind up doing handstands to justify their position and the most common rationalization is that we do not know what we do not know. They use that thinking to dismiss what we do know.

Should we accept Genesis as 100% fact? I cannot.
Should we accept slavery as acceptable and honor our masters? I cannot.
Should we accept the authority of a government even if it unjust or evil? I cannot.
And so on and so on.

Even scholars disagree on the meaning of parts of the Bible. Are they stupid or just ignorant? If highly intelligent people who believe in God disagree, what does that tell us? The United Methodist church has been torn apart by the issue of gays and I know people on both sides of the issue who honor the Lord. We have over a thousand Christian denominations...why...if the Bible is so pure and simple.

Those who say they know the Word, know it within their frame of reference. They may ignore, or worse rationalize, what does not make sense. And there is nothing wrong with that if it brings them closer to God. God has given us a way to salvation that does not require we understand everything in the Bible. That works for me.

If I had to believe in every word written (literally) in Genesis, I would still be an atheist. I cannot believe the universe was not created in six 24 hours days....but that is irrelevant to having faith in God.

Yes, much of the Bibles are irrelevant in regards to having faith in God. Even 1Hole points that out. You can believe in and have faith in God even if there were no Bibles.

I have a problem with people using the Bibles as a weapon, cherry picking and misinterpreting passages to condemn or justify social behaviors they like or dislike. Another problem I have with not so much the Bibles but again cherry picking passages so that they believe that they don't have to live like Jesus but only believe in Jesus to be saved. They believe that Jesus will defend them to God because they love and believe in Jesus.

If they truly love Jesus then they would do more to help the poor and do less to oppress the marginalized and disadvantaged people of the world.

"In one provocative parable, Jesus says that when he comes in all his glory and sits on his throne before all the nations, “he will separate the people one from another as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats” (Matthew 25:32 NIV). The sheep are honored for caring for Jesus in his time of need."

Confused, they ask Jesus when they cared for him. His response is a powerful picture of Jesus’ profound concern for the poor:

“‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me’” (Matthew 25:40 NIV).
These least of brothers are not the people who don't really need your help, these are the people who have been down trodden and oppressed. Helping and being nice to privileged people does not count. You have to help the people who are really suffering.

As recipients of his judgment, the goats are equally confused—when did they see the Lord and not care for him?

“Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me” (Matthew 25:45 NIV).

Jesus equated serving or neglecting the poor with serving or neglecting God. When you vote or donate to charity or perform acts of community service do you focus your efforts on helping and serving the poor. If you don't then you are neglecting Jesus and God. When you vote do you vote to help the poor or do you vote to help yourself. How does your church spend your charity. How much goes to keeping the church you go to running and how much goes to help the poor. Why do you think the Jewish Church of Israel was so afraid of Jesus. It was because the Church was all about itself and not about helping the poor only the rich who contributed to the Church.

I have been reminded here very many times that I cannot be save by good works only by a love of Jesus. Jesus is telling you that if you don't do good works in his name you will not be saved.

I don't believe that Jesus is the Christ and I don't think he rose from the dead but I love the character that is Jesus and do good works in his name. No I don't think Jesus will be beside God's throne in heaven but I do believe that the afterlife will be filled with people who really love Jesus. God does not sit on a throne and heaven is not like most people imagine (read the thread about fishing in heaven).

Tim

1hole
08-01-2020, 10:39 AM
You miss the point of "loving/believing" in Jesus as the single focus of salvation; lip service doesn't get it but neither does doing good things to earn an entry ticket into heaven get it. Those who TRULY put their trust in Jesus gets a fully pre-paid entry ticket, and they alone.

Your very common flaw is presuming those who profess with their lips but not their lives. Those who's lives have been changed - spiritually born again - as new creatures in life will then do good things because of the spiritual change.

All of the "do and don't" check lists we sweat about so much simply show us how far we have been changed by the indwelling Holy Spirit. No meaningful change in our life (heart) means no real change in our spirit and that's the end of it.

What awaits us in Heaven? The eternal heaven will be on a rebuilt earth with rebuilt humans having many of the same pleasures and pursuits we have now, including white horse riding. That's all we are told so that's all we can know for sure.

There may or may not be fishing or hang gliding in heaven but it's certain we won't be sitting around on clouds playing harps.

dtknowles
08-01-2020, 11:01 AM
You miss the point of "loving/believing" in Jesus as the single focus of salvation; lip service doesn't get it but neither does doing good things to earn an entry ticket into heaven get it. Those who TRULY put their trust in Jesus gets a fully pre-paid entry ticket, and they alone.

Your very common flaw is presuming those who profess with their lips but not their lives. Those who's lives have been changed - spiritually born again - as new creatures in life will then do good things because of the spiritual change.

All of the "do and don't" check lists we sweat about so much simply show us how far we have been changed by the indwelling Holy Spirit. No meaningful change in our life (heart) means no real change in our spirit and that's the end of it.

What awaits us in Heaven? The eternal heaven will be on a rebuilt earth with rebuilt humans having many of the same pleasures and pursuits we have now, including white horse riding. That's all we are told so that's all we can know for sure.

There may or may not be fishing or hang gliding in heaven but it's certain we won't be sitting around on clouds playing harps.

I think this may be one of the rare posts in which we agree.

Tim

Rizzo
08-01-2020, 12:27 PM
You can not begin a thread by telling a lie.
You can not intelligently discuss a subject if you are not familiar with it.
You can not own a thread and not expect others to comment, especially when you start with a lie and are unfamiliar with the subject matter.
This thread, and others like it, do not advance knowledge or the forum, since starting from a place of nowhere will end up nowhere.
Your purpose is not to learn, it is to be a provocateur. However, it would seem that others agree with your approach---so, enjoy.
So now you are calling me a liar, eh?
Back it up.
Where's the lie?
I gave nothing but my opinions on the two topics presented.

Rizzo
08-01-2020, 12:29 PM
This thread has explained a lot to me. I now see how a baseball umpire can call someone out when to my eyes and ears they clearly beat the ball to the base. This is a way of saying that I disagree with what the OP has put forward as facts after reading the same verses I have.
You are misrespresenting what I wrote.

What did I put forward as fact?
Reread Post #1.
What I wrote were my opinions.

Also....
The Land of Nod and the origin of the different Races.
What's your thoughts or opinions on those topics?

Rizzo
08-01-2020, 12:52 PM
So I have been watching some youtubes, their premise is that there was an advanced race here before the current race, whether they looked like us or just somewhat resembled us I don't know. Of course those so inclined lean aliens, but I tend to lean human, just more advanced, or at the most, a different evolutionary branch of human. But a bunch of unexplained tech has been used to build structures that our current tech would have problems with, even today, and it is under structures built by subsequent civilizations which is not as refined as that which it is built upon. This type of evidence is seen across the globe, Egypt, Asia, South America etc, and similar enough that it would make you think they had some sort of communication with each other.

So what does this have to do with the bible you say?, well, IMO, many of the stories that they were written by a people that did their best to explain what was passed down to them orally and what they may have experienced themselves. So Eden, Land of Nod, heck even Atlantis may have existed well before the surviving peoples learned to write again.
I've seen several episodes on the program Ancient Aliens that shows ancient ruins that have engineers, etc., puzzled on how it was accomplished. Especially some of the cut stone designs that look like a modern day laser beam was used. Also, moving those enormous boulders is mind boggling how it could have been done by people of that time.
The story of Atlantis and it's advanced civilization is also suspect for some of that stuff.
Then, the alien intervention with man on earth could also be a part of that.

Someone posted about aliens seeding the planet with the different races.
Maybe so, I don't know.

If there was a more advanced civilization on Earth before us, then I would expect to see some documentation left by them. Not on papyrus but on a more modern medium.
But, none found to my knowledge so the mystery continues.

Ickisrulz
08-01-2020, 01:09 PM
If you take this story as being a historical fact:

It was early in the history of man's creation. Abel had no children at this point. Cain and Abel were most likely the same age as the Bible suggests they were twins. Therefore, Cain probably had no children at this point either.

Cain's complaint that other people would kill him looked to the future when the earth would be more populated and he had become notorious for his crime. Some might want justice.

Placing a name on where Cain went (i.e., The Land of Nod) could have been for the original audience of Genesis who knew where that place was or had heard of it (the area was antediluvian, of course). The word "Nod" means to wander. So this area could have been named for Cain's wanderings. On the other hand, it might not have been a physical location at all, just a playful term (e.g., think of someone in La La Land).

What a great post! I agree 100%.

Rizzo
08-01-2020, 01:29 PM
What a great post! I agree 100%.

LOL!

What's your thinking on who Cain married when he went to the Land of Nod.
Descendant of Adam and Eve?...or?

Ickisrulz
08-01-2020, 02:45 PM
LOL!

What's your thinking on who Cain married when he went to the Land of Nod.
Descendant of Adam and Eve?...or?

If you take the story as being a historical fact, Cain would have had to marry his sister or other close relative. Genesis says he had descendants.

flyingmonkey35
08-02-2020, 01:04 PM
I've seen several episodes on the program Ancient Aliens that shows ancient ruins that have engineers, etc., puzzled on how it was accomplished. Especially some of the cut stone designs that look like a modern day laser beam was used. Also, moving those enormous boulders is mind boggling how it could have been done by people of that time.
The story of Atlantis and it's advanced civilization is also suspect for some of that stuff.
Then, the alien intervention with man on earth could also be a part of that.

Someone posted about aliens seeding the planet with the different races.
Maybe so, I don't know.

If there was a more advanced civilization on Earth before us, then I would expect to see some documentation left by them. Not on papyrus but on a more modern medium.
But, none found to my knowledge so the mystery continues.We have found some turly baffilng items out thier. But time destorys almost evrything. Give us a few hundred years and i doubt you will even see a modern laptop cd or jumpdrive outside of a few museums.

We have found ancent batteries. Drawings that depict flying machines.

My gusse is theire were two or more classes of people. The ines who controlled the tecnology and horders the secerets of it. Then the common folk who thoughtbot was magic. And just went about thier day.

Can you build a cell phone? Or is it just magic?

My perosnal theory is atlantis was wiped out by a nucular bomb.

Same with soddom.




Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

bakerjw
08-03-2020, 08:34 AM
There certainly are some very interesting questions and very measured responses presented here.
I came across this site a month or so ago for some casting and loading advice and have been extremely impressed with the maturity and helpfulness of all of the members. It is something not found on forums these days.

Carry on.

fixit
08-04-2020, 01:26 PM
I would post that scientifically, there only needs to be 4 genetic markers to accomplish all the skin variations that we see. Dominant dark, recessive dark, dominant light and recessive light. These four traits can easily be found in two people.

Omega
08-04-2020, 01:50 PM
We have found some turly baffilng items out thier. But time destorys almost evrything. Give us a few hundred years and i doubt you will even see a modern laptop cd or jumpdrive outside of a few museums.

We have found ancent batteries. Drawings that depict flying machines.

My gusse is theire were two or more classes of people. The ines who controlled the tecnology and horders the secerets of it. Then the common folk who thoughtbot was magic. And just went about thier day.

Can you build a cell phone? Or is it just magic?

My perosnal theory is atlantis was wiped out by a nucular bomb.

Same with soddom.




Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I lean towards a meteor strike, it fits a laymans explanation on how it occured in Sodom and Gomorrah. Someone being turned to "salt" or maybe just ash as the nuclear bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki did to some close to the blast, it may seem to them that God was ticked off.

peachhead
08-04-2020, 02:49 PM
I don't know the answer but there is nothing in the Bible (far as I know) that indicates that everyone has been the same race, ever. Could be that Adam and Eve were different. Could be that there were multiple races of Noah's people when they got into the ark, much less what happened when they got out and went to be fruitful and multiply. Also if archaeology is correct, one would have to assume that most people were more than likely Middle Eastern, because that's where everything was. We also don't know how spread out people were in those days or what continents were where, etc etc. I don't doubt what is in the Bible but when it comes to things like that, I know I don't know and most likely no one else does either, so I don't spend a lot of time on it. Kind of like the second coming, no one knows that either so why worry about it.

Rizzo
08-04-2020, 03:00 PM
I would post that scientifically, there only needs to be 4 genetic markers to accomplish all the skin variations that we see. Dominant dark, recessive dark, dominant light and recessive light. These four traits can easily be found in two people.
That is interesting.
I take from what you are posting that a blonde, blue eyed man and woman would have those four genetic markers that could give birth to children of different races?
Hmmm,....that seems far fetched to me but mutations in nature are not uncommon so over a length of time perhaps those races could manifest.

Skin color is one thing but nappy hair, straight hair, slanted eyes, etc. is another.
Would those traits also fall under the umbrella of the four genetic markers that might explain the different races?

Rizzo
08-04-2020, 03:21 PM
I don't know the answer but there is nothing in the Bible (far as I know) that indicates that everyone has been the same race, ever. Could be that Adam and Eve were different. Could be that there were multiple races of Noah's people when they got into the ark,....

I see where you are going with this but if there were multiple races of Noah's people, where did those races come from to begin with?....that is the question.


I don't doubt what is in the Bible but when it comes to things like that, I know I don't know and most likely no one else does either, so I don't spend a lot of time on it. Kind of like the second coming, no one knows that either so why worry about it.
I do not know either.
I get hung up on things like that.
My mind kicks in and I start thinking how it could be.

In the big picture, it is a small issue and like you say....why worry about it.
I agree.
But, to hear/read other's views on issues like this sometimes fills a void in my mind that makes sense.
Thanks for the input.