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longbow
12-01-2008, 09:23 PM
I managed to load up a few rounds for rifles and shotgun and got my butt out to the range today.

I took 4 RB loads for the 12 ga.:

0.662" RB over cornmeal in a shotup 0.662" RB cloth patched over cornmeal in a shotcup 0.735" RB over hard card wads and plastic gas seal 0.735" RB made into AQ clones


All in Fiocchi 2 3/4" hulls, 36 grs. Blue Dot. Win 209 primer.

All shot through cylinder bore.

The 0.662" RB's unpatched shot into just under 6" at 50 yards so not too bad.

I was happy with the 0.662" RB's as they are quick and easy to load so will work on that some more. I will be happy with 4" groups from this at 50 yards. Missionay5155 is quite successful with his 0.685" RB's in shotcups so this should be doable.

The 0.662" RB's cloth patched gave a large and pretty random group more like 12". Odd since last time I tried this the group was just over 4". I figured the cloth patch would snug this up a bit as the ball is a little undersize for the shotcups. Since this is pretty easy I'll probably try it again to see what happens next time.

The 0.735" RB's were worse than buckshot! Again, odd because it is the same load (almost) that gave me 4" to 6" last time out. This time I lubed the ball with LLA so I have to wonder if the lubrication allowed the ball to "squirm" in the barrel. I would figure since it is oversize and swages to fit the barrel it would not be able to pick up a spin in the barrel like an undersize ball. I'll have to repeat this with unlubed balls (the 0.735"lead balls!) to see if I can repeat previous success.

The 0.735" AQ clones ~ well, I pulled the trigger once and recoil was shall we say STOUT! The hull also needed a lttle help with extraction too so I was a little concerned that the AQ clone might be causing too much bore friction and pressure. After checking many 1 3/8 and 1 1/2 oz shot load recipes and several slug recipes though, I don't think so. Better safe than sorry. I feel confident now that they are okay so will finish them off next time out.

I have shot the 0.735" RB over 38 grs. of Blue Dot in both cylinder bore and a rifled gun and it certainly smacked me around but there were no pressure signs and I have published loads for heavier full bore slugs over larger charges of Blue Dot. I just wanted to be certain before I pulled the trigger again.

So, nothing too exciting and no fanciful stories of new accuracy records but you know what ~ it was a good day at the range and I have some things to try for next time!

I'll let you know how those AQ clones work.

Longbow

NSP64
12-01-2008, 11:54 PM
I have been fooling around with RB loads in shot cups for my 20ga (.530RB). I added a stablizer at the rear of the RB to keep it from spinning and it does good. I have been loading over 16gr unique for 1250fps out of my O/U. Imp choke top, Mod bottom. It has been printing POA @ 50 yrds top barrel 4" left in 2" groups, bottom 3" right in 2" group:drinks:

longbow
12-02-2008, 09:46 PM
Good Shooting! 2" group at 50 yards is very good in my opinion ~ especially for round ball. I would be quite happy with 4" and under. That tells you I am not there yet!

What are you using for a stabilizer?

I have tried cloth ribbons, wads screwed to the ball/slug Brenneke style and hot melt glue cast into an attached skirt AQ style. All have worked well sometimes and not so well other times.

Longbow

Red River Rick
12-02-2008, 10:45 PM
I have shot the 0.735" RB over 38 grs. of Blue Dot in both cylinder bore and a rifled gun and it certainly smacked me around but there were no pressure signs and I have published loads for heavier full bore slugs over larger charges of Blue Dot. I just wanted to be certain before I pulled the trigger again.

Longbow:

I felt the same way when trying out the BLS-12 sabot from BPI. I did find a load in one of the Lyman Shotshell books that called for a 48 grs. of Blue Dot with the heavier pay load. Rather than take the chance, I started of at 30 grains and went up.

I had basically the results as you had, the recoil was there, but no real sign of pressure. The few rounds I did load and shoot with 40 grains of Blue Dot, they smacked and the bullet was definately cruising.

NSP54:

And here I am, wasting my time with a rifled slug barrel and your getting better groups than I am. Maybe I'll have to pull the old Cooey single shot out and go back to smooth bore. Good for you.

RRR

NSP64
12-02-2008, 11:32 PM
I was in the dungeon playing and I sat a RB ontop of a left over Knight sabot for my ML (50/45 black, I have switched over to Harvester 50/44 green sabots) The light went on! I hot glued the RB into the cupped portion (the part that would be against the BP charge) That left the petals trailing behind the RB (like a badminton birdie) Well I tried some like that and they didn't work. So I trimmed the petals off with an x-acto. so I had a RB with a black hat on it. I loaded some with the black stand down in a shot cup and loaded with 16gr unique gives 1250fps from my O/U:Fire:

longbow
12-03-2008, 09:07 PM
NSP64:

That would make your RB's similar to an AQ clone.

I have been using hot melt glue in a paper tube in a jig to make skirts or tails on the RB's AQ/Brenneke style. Sometimes they seem to work very well and others are inconsistent. I thought I had that licked when I made the jig so there are no inconsistencies. I guess I still have work to do.

I certainly got excellent accuracy with factory AQ's, they just cost a little much for "plinking".

The experiments will continue but I am leaning more to a rifled choke tube for bore size round ball. It is a bit tedious making up specialty slugs one by one and I have a bent for round balls rather than Foster slugs!

Once I can keep a round ball in about 4" or less at 50 yards I will be reasonably happy. If I can keep them in about 6" at 100 yards I will be happy. Smaller is better of course but I am pretty easy to please and do not expect minute of angle from this sort of firearm or projectile.

Longbow

NSP64
12-06-2008, 04:18 PM
I took the O/U out today and kicked up some does @ 50yrds and proceeded to put a round ball @ 1200fps into her found her in a field and put a second one into her to put her down.:drinks: She is at the processors now.I used my .530RB cast from ww. with the sabot hot glued on over 16gr unique.(made these up last night)

NSP64
12-06-2008, 06:42 PM
Some pis of how I made my RB slugs.:-D

9979

9980

9981

Top pic is gluing rb in
Middle is trim petals off
Last is loaded Rnd(looks like last time for this shell the plastic split)
I glue the sprue mark in the sabot.

missionary5155
12-06-2008, 07:54 PM
nsp64... Neet Idea... have you shot these on paper ? I guess I will have to try the hot glue and the wad perminently attached...

NSP64
12-06-2008, 11:46 PM
Missionary, I fired them @ 50yrds and the upper barrel grouped good and so did the lower barrel, just not in the same place. Got a doe with them today balls stayed inside deer, I haven't dug through the gut pile yet(kept it for cayote bait)

longbow
12-07-2008, 12:40 AM
That is a good idea. I just wish I could find a nice plastic cup for 12 ga. That's why I keep messing about with the AQ idea, just haven't got it quite consistent yet.

I do have 9 more loaded up with the paper tube/hot melt tail but the first one I fired slapped me so hard I wanted to double check the load before I pulled the trigger again. All appears to be well as it is 36 grs. of Blue Dot under a 0.735" RB wearing a skirt just under bore size so maybe a little more friction but hardly any more weight and 40+ grs should be quite safe.

Anyway, I'll shoot the other 9 and see how they go.

Again, I wish I could find something like NSP64 uses that was 12 ga. sized!

Longbow

centershot
12-07-2008, 07:58 PM
Greetings all! I've been reading these threads with great interest as I am going to start loading some RB's for my 870 over the winter (once things settle down, we just kmoved into a new house and it's a little hectic right now!). A thought occurred to me as I was reading this thread; Has anyone tried using a Lage Uniwad for RB loads? Or, to mimic the AQ-type slug, just glued the "leg" portion to the ball and then loaded it into the shotcup? If you're unfamiliar with it, the Lage has two seperate components, the clapsible legs are loaded INTO the shotcup instead of being attached underneath. To load shotshells, just insert the wad into a charged case, apply pressure to collapse the wad and dump in the shot. The internal legs adjust to fill the case with the shot on top. The leg portion is hollow so you would be able to drill thru the bottom if you wanted to attach it to the ball with a screw, without impairing the "flex". Has anyone tried this?

centershot

longbow
12-08-2008, 12:46 AM
I haven't tried the Lage Uniwad but I have cut petals of a standard cushion wad, drilled it and attached to the base of a slug and ball with equal lack of success. I figured the problem was uneven distortion of the cushion as the legs tend to fold up unevenly so after firing the slug/ball has a somewhat uneven skirt behind it.

That is not to say another type of cushion couldn't work. Gualandi and some others use essential a cusion leg section the same as a shot wad. Take a look at the BPI wads and a Gualandi. I shot some Gualandi's and they did pretty well to 50 yards but recovered slugs did have an uneven "skirt". Can't say it affected flight though. Didn't try them at longer range but Gualandi claims good accuracy to 100 yards.

I guess a shorter post would have been to say if you can find a cushion section that can be attached to the ball and it doesn't distort badly from firing it should work. Another issue is the protruding screw. It doesn't compress so has to allow the cushion to slide along it. If it sticks through the gas seal there is leakage and if it doesn't the gas seal can hit it. So far I haven't found one that works for me but I went in a different direction so only tried a couple of wads attached that way.

I'd be interested to hear how this works for you. I'm always looking for a better way.

Longbow

shotman
12-08-2008, 04:06 AM
longbow sent a PM rick

NSP64
12-08-2008, 08:30 PM
I was thinking that whatever is attached to the RB needs to be smaller than the ball so the air will flow around the ball and trailing piece with as little turbulance as possible. Best design might be a trailing cone (like this O>) but then you would need a piece to push the cone without damaging the cone.

Longbow, I am going to try some red plastic caps I use at work(filled with hot glue). If these work I could send some in a size to fit your RB to try in 12ga (I don't have a 12ga). The plastic caps have raised 'lines ' that run vertically for your fingers to find purchase on, to tighten. PM if interested.

longbow
12-08-2008, 08:49 PM
NSP64:

Any chance you could post a photo? And maybe give an idea of what the plastic is (soft, brittle)?

If they are the right size (either bore size or to fit in a shotcup) it may work.

My latest AQ clones are ready to go. They are a paper tube filled with hot melt glue all made up in a jig to attach to the round ball. These are bore size ball like real AQ's.

I am just finding the making kind of tedious. I don't mind making a few for testing and if they work well then they would be fine for hunting but they are a lot of work to make for plinking or practise.

A plain old round ball through a rifled choke tube would be a lot easier.

Longbow

missionary5155
12-11-2008, 09:13 AM
Good morning Longbow.... "Yea... my plinker is only .73 caliber. I keep the BIG gun ready for the next Griz attack or deranged Muskox that might be wandering up the draw....

longbow
12-11-2008, 08:51 PM
missionary5155:

We were up about the same time this morning I see!

Yea, it does sound a little silly "plinking" with 12 ga. doesn't it... but that's what I'm doing. I don't have a bigger gun though.

I have as yet to shoot the rest of those AQ clones but I am hoping for success. Even if I get it I am not sure I want to set up production of these as they take quite a bit of time.

Not a problem for the occassional griz or muskox attack but making large numbers is time consuming.

I'll keep you posted.

Longbow

shotman
12-12-2008, 08:50 AM
Here is the wads I was talking about

longbow
12-12-2008, 08:39 PM
That does look like a nice wad for round ball! Perfect cup bottom.

How does the pedestal stand up (no pun intended!) after firing? If it stays reasonably straight and the gas seal stays in line that might make for a tail AQ style buyt cutting petals off just above the cup and attaching to the ball.

Longbow

missionary5155
12-12-2008, 09:19 PM
Here is the wads I was talking about

Greetings Shotman.... who is the manufacturer of these?