beginner smelting, does this look right?

[guy_with_boolits]

second time attempting to smelt

this time for flux I used maybe 1 cubic inch of beeswax and maybe 4 or 5 tablespoons of pine sawdust

the flux wasnt added all at once, it was broken up and added over probably an hour of stirring and trying to remove dross

I ignited the beeswax smoke whenever I added it and stirred

I tried to ignite the pine dust smoke but it wouldnt, so I just stirred

I am not sure whats happening here. Am I done? Seems like if you drag the spoon across the top of the lead you get an infinite supply of "skin" that you can form into little dark gray blobs.

I made so much of it that I wondered if it was really not just lead. So I dumped it all back in, stirred vigorously for awhile, and then scooped off the new dross.

The new dross was much lighter, fluffier, and more powdery before.

The picture shows the hot lead at the end of all this at about 600F. Its got about 3% tin in it I think.

It seems to be covered in a very shiny spiderweb of almost what looks like grains or crystals forming. Is that right?

The dross is in the cup.

https://i.postimg.cc/yNn1Tt36/20200729-182806.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Dz7fLnZY/20200729-182809.jpg

[Winger Ed.]

Looks fine to me.

I'd go ahead and cast with it.

[megasupermagnum]

I usually don't put that much work into it, so I'd say you are good. I've been fluxing twice, which is maybe 5 minutes each. A lot of dross is nothing but oxidation of the lead. I'm sure there is tin and other stuff mixed in, but it shouldn't be too much. Part of flux's purpose is to keep the tin and antimony suspended in the lead.

[guy_with_boolits]

Looks fine to me.

I'd go ahead and cast with it.

thanks!! I didnt mention that I could scrape those nice looking spiderwebs into more "dross" or whatever it is. Not something like what I have in that cup but its dark. Sort of like a skin. Is that normal? Seems like that stuff never runs out

[guy_with_boolits]

I usually don't put that much work into it, so I'd say you are good. I've been fluxing twice, which is maybe 5 minutes each. A lot of dross is nothing but oxidation of the lead. I'm sure there is tin and other stuff mixed in, but it shouldn't be too much. Part of flux's purpose is to keep the tin and antimony suspended in the lead.

thats what I am thinking too..the endless dross is actually just lead oxide. you can see it form

[lightman]

It looks good to me. Save that dross and add it to your next smelt.

[tankgunner59]

After casting for a while you should use your dipper or an old stainless steel spoon and mix your melt from time to time to keep the tin and antimony suspended in it.

[megasupermagnum]

It looks good to me. Save that dross and add it to your next smelt.

Why would you do that?

[Rex]

looks cleaner than mine usually does, you are doing good!

[Wayne Smith]

After casting for a while you should use your dipper or an old stainless steel spoon and mix your melt from time to time to keep the tin and antimony suspended in it.

You would do that because the tin and antimony are not 'suspended' in the lead, they are alloyed to it. The oxidation process separates out this alloy because the tin oxidizes first - before the lead. Thus much of what you see as 'dross' that is not chunky is tin oxidized out and you can actually see it happening. This also might mean you have your alloy too hot, the hotter it is the faster the oxidation process works. So when you mix it back in you are actually returning tin to the alloy. Wax does this.

Carbon gloms on to the impurities and brings them to the surface, this is the chunky dross that does need to be removed.

[mdi]

Don't over think/over do the process, but your alloy looks clean. I normally just use sawdust and stir. I keep stirring until the dark junk floats and skim that off. During casting I stir with a rough cut wood stick to keep things "mixed up". Normally casting will tell you if your alloy is clean as the bullets' appearance will not be smooth and look slightly "dirty".

Sometimes I'll add some dross to a small pot of lead to reclaim any alloy still in the dross...

[bangerjim]

That non-shiny stuff you see on the surface is your Sn being oxidized out. Do NOT scrape it off! That is where you throw in a pea-sized piece of beeswax and stir it around to reduce it back in. After the beeswax processing, your surface will be mirror shiny.............for a time. The Sn will constantly try to oxidize. Just keep your mix stirred up and do NOT skim that "spiderweb" coating off into dross!

And I NEVER put old dross back into another new re-melt. You have already spent fuel and time and cleaned the garbage out, why put it back in to a fresh melt?????????????? The VERY little you will get out of that garbage is not worth the effort and time. Just throw it in the garbage can like I do.........after it cools, of course.

Questions are good....................but.....................do n't overthink this very easy metal melting process! Keep it simple. And enjoy life.

banger

[gwpercle]

Looks good and clean . Good job !
I believe using both wax and sawdust is best . Truth be known I do wood shavings first , a small amount of beeswax second and and a little Marvelux last ... well stirred each and skim a little , check the melt for inclusions and do it again .
Two light fluxes are better than one big heavy flux .
Gary

[lar45]

Looks great to me.
I wish I could get my son to get it that clean when he processes WW for me.

Once I get my current supply of WW done, I don't think I'll be buying anymore. If I'm lucky, I'll get 30# of ingots out of a 5 gal bucket now with all of the steel and zinc taken out.

I still do have a half of a 55 gal drum that went through my shop fire that is all melted and stuck together. I need to get around to building a big fire under it and see if I can get anything to run out the bottom. Probably build a fire on top of it too?
The drum is split top to bottom with the ends intact laying on it's side. The tractor won't pick it up. The best it will do is pick up one end a little and I can drag it around.

[jsizemore]

What Wayne Smith said. I'll add that sawdust does remove the stuff we don't want in the alloy (flux) and removes the oxides (reduce). Once you've removed the unwanteds from the alloy, there's no need to keep beating a dead horse and keep using the sawdust. Your alloy is complete. Now you just need to maintain it by managing/reducing the oxides and you can do that with wax. The higher the the temp the more oxides you produce. Learning how to control oxide formation with your particular alloy comes from experience. If you've got it right your alloy surface will look the same from full to almost empty. Then you can focus on the casting part which requires your undivided attention.

[BNE]

After casting for a while you should use your dipper or an old stainless steel spoon and mix your melt from time to time to keep the tin and antimony suspended in it.

This is not needed. Think of an "alloy" like coffee or hot tea with sugar added. You are drinking an "alloy" of sugar and coffee. Do you need to stir it to keep the sugar mixed? NO. You stir to make the original mix, but once it is alloyed it will not separate.

The spiderweb stuff is the top surface of your alloy oxidizing. In spite of what you hear, that is not your Tin oxidizing out first. Look up the stickies on this topic, somewhere you will find a test I performed where I heated a pot to ~900F and scraped the top oxidized layer off over several hours. I then analyzed that layer using an XrF. The alloy concentration did not change over time even at that crazy hot temperature.

Your pictures show you are doing it correctly. Don't get stressed about what you are seeing. Good Job.

[Huskerguy]

I always prefice my replies that I am not an expert on many things, including this. However, that doesn't keep me from sharing my opinions and experiences!

I have struggled with the same thing after doing a couple thousand lbs with two different heat sources. I agree with the comment about excessive heat. When using a friend's turkey frier he can get incredible heat and I found I was constantly stirring and bringing stuff up. I flux twice, once with pine and then a second time with wax.

I have an old plumbers pot and it doesn't get nearly as hot. I used the same flux method and didn't see the continual oxidation or whatever it was on top.

I concluded that I could skim and scrape forever if I wanted but I wasn't gaining anything with the hotter pot. I concluded it was some oxidation most likely. So when using it I scrape the sides and bottom, clean it off, flux twice and go on. I do know when I put my ingots in the pot they are very clean and I have very little stuff to scrape out.

Your pot of lead actually looks really good. At first I was way too picky, my nature on things, but I am learning. The science escapes me though. ;)

[Mitch]

Your alloy looks great nice and clean.
The spider web you see is lead oxidizing this starts right away after fluxing nothing to get excited about.When i fist stated casting one of the guys here gave me a call and helped me with cleaning my lead.I use sawdust and bees wax.First the sawdust them the wax.when you add the sawdust and it burns to ash watch what it looks like.You will see all the dirt and crap foating with the ash.You will notice that it is heavy as you skim it off.Realy dirty lead may take a few rounds of sawdust to get it claen.After the fist round of the sawdust the ash will not be as heavy and you will see alot less dirt and crap.So bottom line is watch what things look like and you will be able to tell if you are skiming off crap or oxidation with a little practice.I agree with a statement above about dross i never remelt dross.Dross is the dirt and crap that came out of the lead.Big differance between dross and oxidation.When done right you have mostly dross not worth remelting and making more work of it.

The oxidation is not all tin.It is just the alloy once an alloy is mixed it will not seperate.This is why it is tuff to get zinc out of an alloy.This where the bees wax comes in to reduce the oxidation back into the mix.Totaly differnt from what sawdust does.I mix 300lbs or alloy at a time so every now and then i use the bees wax to get rid of the oxidation and keep pouring my ingots.I use the same method when ladle pouring Bullets.

[WRideout]

I wish my melt looked that good. Yours is cleaner than most, and you should not have a problem with it. I used to be vigilant about scraping the top of the pot regularly, but am now finding that when I use a Lyman dipper with my Lee pot, it is essentially bottom pour (even though it's the bottom of the ladle.) The dross stays on top, and does not affect anything in the boolit.

Wayne

[Land Owner]

Imo, bee's wax is expensive, unless you are a bee keeper. Ask your spouse, GF, mom, sister, their GF's, ladies at church/school, etc., to keep their candle wax for you and if they find some at a yard sale, to call you to see if they can purchase it on the cheap. One of my co-workers found and purchased an overflowing paper box of used CHURCH candles for $5 that way. My "ladies" always keep me loaded with their used candle wax from the likes of Yankee Candle products (for example) that have gotten too low to light in their containers. I gently heat those containers and pour the contents into suitable molds, then recycle the glass containers. I have a lot of FREE candle wax that way - and some that's been blessed too, which, in my mind anyway, keeps me out of trouble.